Fighting in line at McDonalds

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did you still get your place in line?  :)

sounds like it COULD have been kundalini, but don't quote me on that. the electrical sparks up your upper spine are familiar to me, when i work with kundalini. and i have heard accounts of people who use kundalini who says something about it feeling like water; sometimes cold, sometimes hot. the immediately forgotten thing is something i have done a couple of times to show my "superiority" to others (to make sure they didn't try to start fights. like saying, "i am so much better than you, i don't even have to think about you"). and the thing about not being harmed also sounds like something i heard regarding kundalini (but that was in the Street Fighter II V series when dhalsim said he knew of no way to use kundalini as a martial art).

someone on this board mentioned something about a "water chi" schooling, a while back. so that may have been it. it could also have been psionic, telepathic "suggestions" that such things were happening to you, so your body made it happen. i can't say anything for sure, but i hope this may help in some way (like leading to a better explaination  :)  ).

well, next time you see him, give him a big "You JERK!" sensation  :p  . just make sure you have shields up and are ready to start a fight  :)  . and remember to order when your turn comes in line, even if you're still fighting.  lol.


Secret of Secrets


It is true that I kept my place in line to order, but he was served first. It was over twenty minutes from getting in line to getting food, and there were only six people ahead of me in line.


Moral of the story: never eat at McDonald's!

Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor - Jokes and Humor
Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash


Kundalini raising apparently (I plan not to attempt tp raise mine for a long while) is such an involved and taxing experience that it would seem unlikely that anyone would use that much of there own energy just to give their ego a kick. To raise your own takes a lot of ability, to raise someone elses with nothing but your own intent would take a person that advanced I doubt they would find satisfaction in hurting some one anyway, or get all testy over something like that.

Kakkarot I remember you talking about sending dark ki (I think it was ki? I dont know much about Eastern energy theories) Im really curious to know how that works. Im pretty much a 'And ye harm none' wiccan ideologied fuzzy bunny but knowledge is power. Could it have been that perhaps which Tom felt. I imagine if I were so inclined I could send nasty hateful  energy into someone, would it be the same as that?

Actually Kakkarot if you dont mind could you give a brief summary of the Eastern energy types, Ive always been confused about them and Ive never asked! You seem to know about em.

best regards


Veni Vidi Vici


G,day Tom

Are you normaly the type of person who would not say anything to someone jumping in front of you? If so, this submissive form of compliance with others selfishness will only result in your loss, time wise & energy wise. Selfish, ignorant, arogant or dominant people can simply steal your energy off you, sometimes knowing they are doing so, to make sure they get what they want, other times they do so unconciously.

My girlfriend is like this, & would let 10 people pass her, just so she would not attract attention, create a scene or have all eyes on her for the moment. She dreads someone doing it while I am around, as I will just go ballistic at them & I don't care if they put me up on a movie screen while I do it either. I guess she doesn't like it because they will look at her too.

The other possibility as to the strange energy sensations, it could have just been chance or coincidental that it happened to you just as he was moving towards you & the energy could have been entirely manifested by you, a result of your "playing" with the energy, just before he moved.

Ahhhh McDonalds, I'll have to save my incident like in the movie "falling down" till next time, anyone seen that movie? I'll give YOU 1 minute past breakfast menu!

Good journeys



Yeah that movie rocks! Almost hold it in as high a regard as Fight club, there is somwthing cool about movies that embrace insanity!

From Toms first post
"At first there were electrical sensations in my upper back. Then it felt like a bucket of cold water was poured through my kidneys, from which it flowed both up and down. After this it felt like I had immediately been forgotten"

Mobius you mention energy stealing, has anyone ever experienced a conciously made psychic vampirism attack? They most aim for the heart and solar plexus chakras dont they? I wonder if an attack on a charkra would create localised pain or a full body sensation like what Tom has described.



Veni Vidi Vici


G,day Fenris

As to the energy stealing, I was just clutching at straws there & I'm probably way off the mark with regards to Toms experience, just some thoughts I had after reading his post.

I'm not sure if energy stealing or psychic vampirism has been proven scientifically at all, but I do seem to notice when arguements happen face to face or there is an unspoken tension or dissagreement about the place, the person with the most aggressive attack seems to walk away with the winnings, in this case the energy of the other person, leaving them with a feeling of weakness, loss & defeat.

If you are aware of this exchange in energy's like many in here are, you can use steps to avoid a loss of energy.

Damn, I'm late for lectures, go to go, talk again soon.



Fenris, those "eastern" energy types you wanted. i don't know much compared to what someone growing up in those areas would probably know, but i have figured out a few misconceptions that americans have through my research. i will try to give you info on them that comes from the cultural mysticism as well as knowledge i have from my own experiences. and also, please be aware that i am only giving short descriptions as each of these alone DOES take up full books for authors to explain more completely.

the only references to chi i can find are the ones that point to it originating from china. used in the martial arts, it is portrayed in their movies (ie, Crouching Tigger Hidden Dragon) but is even more important to their everyday lives. it is used in medicine, in business, and in personal tasks (or at least, it is by the more conservative families). i have seen no references to how the chinese developed it, or how it originated, and i have seen a few indications that such knowledge is completely lost.

a gentle energy that flows through all things. it travels in paths around the world, called veins by the wicca (and i have seen some places call them leylines). it is by no means a personal energy, but a person can absorb amounts and keep this energy to themselves, thus making it "theirs".

it can be used in combat situations by using it to supplement or reinforce natural skills and attributes of the user, by gathering it in mass amounts and forcing it at someone, or by "seeping" it into your opponent and leaking their ability to perform skills and use or hold energy.

it is most commonly seperated into two types (though i have seen some other types): positive and negative. positive chi is most easily used for healing and helping people; its presence alone promotes good health and happiness. negative chi is most easily used to harming people; its presence alone promotes degradation of health and unhappiness. a skilled user of chi can use either form without the side-effects, and may even be able to use each type to do what the other is meant for (ie, using negative chi to heal someone), but the method of application would be different. also, they feel different from one another.

chi can easily affect the spirit, but seems as though it needs to be modified ever so slightly to be able to affect physical things: this being said because i can do many weird and powerful things with chi to people, but i can't even use chi to move small pinwheels. (the only exception that i can find to me being unable to affect physical things with chi, is being able to manipulate wind, and being able to stop papers and bags that are blowing in the wind from blowing in the wind). this energy is very manipulatable, almost as manipulatable as magic, and can do many things.

the word being taken from the chinese qi/chi (pronounced the same which is probably where the mixup in the japanese spelling came from), the japanese developed ki rather than chi in their society. i have found no evidence to show how this came about, but i speculate that the japanese hard martial arts are what contributed to the learning of ki rather than chi (chi was widely used in the chinese martial arts which were composed more of soft martial arts than any hard ones); this is supported by the references that show the japanese adapted the open hand forms of martial arts from the chinese (after all, karate originally meant "china hands" rather than "empty hands" as it is now translated).

i don't know as much about this energy, but from what i have seen of it, it works pretty much exactly like it is portrayed on dragon ball z (except REAL people don't get powerful enough to blow up mountains  :)  ) and in the street fighter movies and series (and please realize that hadou is a different form of ki). much of the research i have done on ki showed that it was different from chi, except the research i got from north american sources which seem to think they are the same thing. it is a personal form of energy that is either difficult or impossible to share between people. it IS able to affect other people, but for one person to give up their ki so that another can store it is something that i have not been able to discern if it is possible; if it is possible, it is a lot less easily done than with chi. my ki starts in my stomach area normally (and i have read many descriptions that say the same thing) and spreads out from there, however i can use ki at any part of my body using that body part only (ie, i can get my arm to use ki while the rest of my body is at spiritual "rest"). it seems to be more limited in scope as to what it can do, except when a person has excessive amounts of it and good skill at using it, at which point it seems to become less limited.

this is a very useful energy in combat if you are using a hard martial art and can even be used by those who use soft martial arts (though not as easily). the easiest things that i can do with ki are reinforcing my strength, speed, and to increase my body's ability to take a hit without being affected by it (ie twisting my ankle such that i can't walk on it, but still being able to fight on it as though it weren't injured when i use ki). i have found an ability to "throw" ki at people, but it is harder to do than with chi, it uses up a lot of personal energy to do so, and it only seems to affect them spiritually with me (i may not being throwing enough ki for people to be affected physically beyond merely setting off their nerves a bit).

i have only once seen anything that broke ki down to seperate types and that was in the Street Fighter Alpha movie when it broke it talks about dark ki. however, i have also felt the effects of dark ki and have taken the past year to try to understand what happened, so i feel that i can make comment on this with some authority on the subject. dark ki feels different from normal ki and the way it feels is the reason for why it is called "dark" ki; normal ki for me feels blue-ish tinged at its outermost "influence", dark ki feels black tinged at its outermost, and light ki feels white tinged at the outermost. all three forms feel completely transparent except at their outermost area. only once have i ever felt any of them as a solid colour, and that was when i lost control the one time (i talk about that incident in a different thread). dark ki brings out dark emotions, and in turn it takes dark emotions to use dark ki: hate, anger, wrath, lust for destruction, and feelings of superiority all contribute to generating dark ki. i do not know much about light ki so i am sorry that i cannot write anything on it.

found in east india, the energy of the spine is still fairly unknown and misunderstood in most of north america. robert knows more than i, and he even carried on a conversation regarding kundalini in another thread entitled "Kundalini", i think (i know the thread exists, but i am not totally sure of its name).

a serpent rising from the base of the spine to the top of the head, and higher, kundalini is proposed to be the true source of a human's consciousness. some people mistakingly call it chi, i don't know why though. i have very scattered knowledge and limited experience with kundalini. there is some talk about awakenings (which can be dangerous and even deadly, with side-effects lasting for years some research says). also, i don't know of any of the abilities that come with it, except all sources say that "enlightenment" comes with the awakening.

DONE. these are the only "eastern" ones i know of (magic and psionics are western). and please remember, that my info is not set in stone and i am not infallible.  :)


Secret of Secrets


i have experienced some weird occurences with my energy, but i wouldn't call it psychic vampirism.

i was walking home one day (after having just been given a plain metal ring by someone who said they found it) and i felt all my energy leave me. it wasn't being taken, it was just leaving. i thought about trying to stop it, but i owed an "essence" lots of energy, so if it was that one that was taking some back, i had no right to stop it (especially if it needed energy so badly that it had to take it from me). and there have been other times when i just suddenly had loads of energy for no reason that i could discern, so "a penny gained is a penny lost", or something.

i have tried stealing other people's energy a few times, but the people around me don't have very much in the first place, so even if i were to leech all of it (i don't, i only skim a bit off of lots of people) i wouldn't get very much. although, i once started pulling on someone's energy to see if they were "not normal", and she pulled back on mine, allowing me to know that she was indeed "not normal".


Secret of Secrets



Thanks for going to all that effort mate! Very interesting reading, Im actually going into Brisbane (nearest city) this Sunday where the largest Occult/Metaphysical book store in the southern hemisphere is. Im mainly going in to cause sceans and general public mayhem with my partner in crime/soulmate Natalie but Im deffinately going to spulrge some money at the book shop. PSD is the main item on the shoping list but you have inspired me to learn more about Chi and Ki.

A close friend of mine is very highly graded in Buducan Kubodo ("hard" martial art). The highest graded in Australia actually, anyways when he has the money he flys to Japan to train at the head school run bu the grand master Hatsumi. There are some awsome feats of energy used there. Practically everyone in the room is capable of seeing Aura's. Hatsumi is beyond human, when facing him in training he changes the atmosphere of the room from compleatly plesant to a feeling of terror. And thats only  the general feeling of the room, if you are his training opponent you feel like you are in a genuin life or death situation - and you are going to lose. People when against him often drop to the floor after being stabbed by weapons that are not there. And these peaple are not energy weaklings by themselves.  When I have full colour auric sight Id love to go there, there would be some spectacular sights to see!

I think you and I have one thing deffinately in common, we both have to get back into our martial arts!

best regards


Veni Vidi Vici

Adam Kadmon

kakkarot: ki is chi, it's the japanese spelling. It's cultivated and used exactly the same way. The hard and soft styles you speak of are the static and dynamic applications of the same energy, and what parts of the body you channel it towards. When you say ki is personal and difficult to share with people, what do you think Reiki is?

Qi is Chi is Ki is Kundalini. Awakening kundalini is when you clear your blockages in the spine (or turn the spigot forcing a clearing) allowing the universal fount of chi to shoot to yer head. The Hindu yogis call kundalini shakti-prana, showing that there is no difference, because prana=chi.
The Chinese have two other categories called Shen and Jing (spirit energy and life energy), but these are just the base and subtle manifestations of the same energy.



Falling down is a pretty rad movie isnt it?

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Hi guys

Hey Fenris & Grenade, I've got a copy of "falling down" on video & I watch it every now & then, the acting in it was pretty bad, but the story line excellent. I had to buy it as it reminded me of an episode that I had at McDonalds a couple of years ago myself & what I would have liked to say to the attendants at the time, if I wasn't in the drive through.

I know this story isn't like Toms, involving energy etc. just a baaaaaaaad experience at McDonalds.

My girlfriend & I had just left Hungry Jacks (Burger king) as they have bigger size O.J's than Macca's (although less quality, but quantity matters when you have a hang over). It was a hot summers day allready at 10:10 am pulling into the drive through of Macca's & I was only about 5 cars behind the service counter, so I thought cool, 20mins left to kill before breakfast menu is over.

Nope, it wasn't going to turn out like that, as the person getting served either ordered the entire store, or the 16 year olds responsible for the million dollar franchise were replaced by 15 year olds or a helpbot or something, as I did not move for the period of 10:10 to 10:30. The tempterature gauge in my car started to rocket as I pulled up to the 1st window,to be greeted with a "Good morning sir, what would you like to order?".

"Two bacon & egg muffins thanks" I replied,only to be told in a happy detached sort of voice. "I'm sorry sir the breakfast menu has finished, you can order from our main menu board now"..........................................................................................................................."WHAT ! " I said " You must have seen me in your camera, I've been waiting in line for 20 mins, I was here at 10:10 am! the guy at the front took 20 mins!". Like a well trained helpbot she replied " I'm sorry sir the breakfast menu is finished, you can order from our main menu".

Scenes from the movie "falling down" came flashing through my mind & I thought "how? why? who? what the?". My girlfriend was just going "don't have a go at them, don't worry about it, lets go", but in true "falling down" style, I drove to the 2nd window & launched my large size burger king O.J through the window & screamed a four letter obscenity at them, as if all that would somehow rectify or make right the ordeal.

Oh well, lesson learnt, no Macca's drive throughs & hell has no fury,that matches the scorn of a woman.

So every time Macca's comes up in conversation, my girlfriend delights in telling everyone how I lost it in the drive through & not only lost my cool, but my morning hangover rectifier as well, the O.J.

Good journeys all



wow, fenris, your friend is amazing! that would be sooooooo cool! :) and yeah, i need to start training again.

awww, poor mobius  :) funny story though.

adam: reiki! that's one that i forgot to mention i don't know much about! thanks for reminding me. all i know about reiki is that it is supposed to be some form of god energy that comes into the reiki healer and is channeled through the reiki healer's body into the victim... I MEAN RECIPIENT! RECIPIENT!  :)  and i have no idea what it is since i have not felt it.

and also, both the hard and soft methods are dynamic, since static means, roughly, "not changing". and i theorized this because ki is easier to use when my muscles are flexed whereas chi is easier to use when my muscles are relaxed (but i can use ki when relaxed and chi when flexing, proving that they are different things.). many people somehow think they are the same thing, but they really aren't. they are SIMILAR, but not identical, and not the same. another mixup comes from the something else i have discovered; chi can be burned off as fuel for ki.

as for cultivation, the only methods i have seen for cultivating ki are the methods used for cultivating hadou ki (gathering the ki of other living things) in the street fighter II V series. i have seen and read about methods for cultivating chi from chinese sources that were translated into english, and from websites devoted to chinese cultual and martial art "things". but i have not seen any japanese source that has been translated into english nor any websites that talk about japanese ki that give any method for cultivating ki. this is another reason why i say they are two different things; research has shown so (the other reason being experience).

(sorry if i get longwinded on this stuff, but it is the only metaphysical topic of which i have researched much and have experienced much of, so i like to talk  :)  )


Secret of Secrets


i know this is old but anyways let me finish.

The chinese energies of Jing and Shen are converted Chi. Chi = Ki, they are just different words. Jing is compacted Chi made to do physical damage. Shen means "God" and it is what causes "limit breaks," special life and death occurrences when somebody obtains super strength, as shown in this story:

A boy was walking home and he sees his father stuck under a car. Realising this dangerous situation the boy actually LIFTED the car off his father, and the boy was only about 13 years old. This was printed in a newspaper somewhere.

Shen also causes those time-slows-down phenomena that happens just before something bad is about to happen.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

No amount of rigorous training, sitting and doing nothing, and clearing one's mind can help a man who hasn't overcome his doubts.


tom, what do you think about that guy at the store being kind of (unjustly) ticked about you holding your ground there, and you being very sensitive to energy now, due to all of your energy work?  not saying he wasn't doing something, but finding out just how much intent plays on moving energy and anything else has made me think more about the effects they may have.  i wonder how big of a difference there would be in the effect of someone purposefully screwing w/ you and another person w/ out a background in energy work being very mad, and either wishing harm on you or going through the motions in their head.  

as strongly as i feel about how stupid fighting is, i still go through those little day dreams sometimes where i get into fights w/ someone i don't even know that may have just looked at me wrong.  

kakkarot, you seem like you are very interested in energy.  it's suprising that you have not tried any reiki yet.  if you are interested in being attuned i'd be more than happy.


It was long enough ago that I don't clearly recall how it felt. I agree it is possible that the attack I felt was not intentional and that would explain its abrupt ending.


i'd love to fredhedd. [:)]

when should i expect it?



I know it is possible to steal one's life force with qi gong training. We jokingly call it the "Dark Side" in kung fu class. It is also possible to make someone very, very sick by using qi. While qi is generally used to promote a person's longevity throughout life, it can also be used to take it away. There is a story about a qi gong master who, during WWII, was walking down a street in China, when he saw a defenseless woman being harassed by four Japanese soldiers. He shot qi energy at them. Two of them died and the other two were seriously injured, having internal wounds to their organs. Apparently a subsonic wave is emitted when qi energy is used. This vibration carries a message (instructions) to atoms and molecules, and they are somehow carried out. A qi wound may not take immetiate effect. One can walk away in a fight from such an injury, but later on it takes effect. There have been people who have dropped dead for apparently "no reason" days after they are hit in certain spots on the body.

I don't think Tom is likely to drop dead here, but the person who tried to take your place in line probably doesn't realize they may possess some hidden power or gift with energy. They probably didn't even know they were using it. It sounds like an accident to me. Sometimes things seem to go right for me for no reason, and I really feel in control of things. I don't know why he was served first. It could have something to do with this. Negs can put thoughts into anyone's head. The more subtle the thought, the more evil and strong the neg is. Best of luck.


There is a McDonalds location near my home where the service is extremely slow. I found myself standing in line and decided to use the wait to play with energy, both drawing it into myself and filling the store with it. The person behind me did not find such a productive use for the time while we are all standing still. He decided that he was going to just walk around me. Anticipating this, I stepped into his path. Whatever he did, and I am certain that he has had training in some system of working with energy, this is how it felt. At first there were electrical sensations in my upper back. Then it felt like a bucket of cold water was poured through my kidneys, from which it flowed both up and down. After this it felt like I had immediately been forgotten. It crossed my mind to hit back, but it seemed more important to wonder why I had felt such strong sensations and yet not been harmed in any way at all. It was also puzzling that it seemed to be over so suddenly.