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and the first explanation rarely will be the last
Search for the cause of self, in self
To find everything and nothing

Astral Practitioner

Silent Shadow. Build up your awareness hand's this strengthens visualization of the stabbing technique. Hope this helps.


Dear SSSilent SSShadow,
 Sorry for the delay in reply to your questions...Hurricane Dennis decided I could use a little down-time from the internet. Went through an interesting 15 days of withdrawal  :shock:! anyway have no idea what happen with the powers that be and MustardSeed?!? I won't bother getting into how I feel about the idea of it all being in people's heads. You know it's real...I know it's real, and that's all that matters now. My reply (if I had been around) would have proceeded RunLola's tactic on a full-frontal attack. Unfortunately this comes too won't work...not in the long'll only make things worse, and I worry you are realizing this now. Forget about it. No harm done, just a regrouping of all energies involved. Destroying one makes the others stronger. Sort of dissipates and is absorbed by the others. You know the way people take shots for viruses...a little of a dead or semi-dead virus will make them immune?!? Same thing. The poker won't work again. Try it and see. They up their game, as you up yours. Even if you managed to find something that destroyed them...whoever is in charge or fascinated with your beautiful and unique essence will send in stronger, more organized replacements.

Reading through the last pages of posts I picked up two things...1) You're not completely validating your experience which came across in need to prove that you're not "stupid" (or crazy), and 2) that you aren't ready to "combat" these that there is a strong message that has nothing to do with you being "weak". It's you're subconscious intelligence about the situation shining through...obey it! Do not waste your energy at this time making them in-fact...stronger than they need be.

I will write more later on today. Have to work now.
Just wanted to let you know that I'm still here for you.
It's most important that you FEEL smart, balanced, in-tune, aware, etc...then it is to have others "believe" it. Do whatever you need to do FEEL this about yourself for true. That's the most you can do right now.

Be back in a bit
Love Soul


OK well, I am extremely inexperienced in this, but depending on your religion.

Well, if you are Christian, why do all these techniques? Command then to go away, "Ye are Gods" you have control over them, and they are only inferior to you in every way. Try Preying, maybe try to speak in Tongues. (Tongues is one of the smaller gifts for faith in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Everyone can do it, they just have to try and let themselves get baptized within the Holy Spirit.)

Well, just to elaborate, God gave us all full control over our minds. The Astral, these creatures, psychic abilities, all manifest here. Your mind is like a TV, if you don't like what you are seeing/experiencing, you can turn it off, you can destroy these beings by just focusing on them going away. You are their superiors, you just do not believe it to be that way.



back again. was doing some pretty hard labor in 104 degree heat yesterday and had to recoup. didn't get round to posting last night.

psychic defense is my area of expertise (sort-a-speak). although the word "expert" is a poor one. it's a messy labyrinth on endless levels, and it draws on everything that exists, so even though i have a great wealth of experience in this realm...doesn't mean i know (edit). i do know that one thing it never is is black & white! it also doesn't follow human rule or laws, although it does utilize them extremely well. it has nothing to do with organize religion either, as religion came after the fact to help downplay this path to power. magic, mysticism, healing, divination, intuition and the like all got lumped together into the "evil" category with the goat-like with power were tortured and slain, women with power were stoned, burned at the stake, and eventually over time all super-natural things were "cleansed" from our minds.
i'm not anti-religious...i just stress natural intelligence over any implied system, especially those under male governance. if it is important for one to consider them-self a christian, or buddhist, a muslim, a hindu, a satanist... whichever...if one wants to worship in a temple, or pray for assistance from the powers that be, dedicate their life as a missionary, etc that's all well and good, but it has very little if nothing to do with finding control over ones life. it is important to understand that religion is in itself a crutch; working to make people "dependent" rather than self-sufficient. people can argue all day about government as well, and which side serves better, but it is the same male-based, implied system that exists for nothing more than control, and dependence of the people...all leading away from our individual power.

we have a long way to go to work our way out of our dependence and bring back the skills that are rightfully ours. humans have this tendency (program) to "think" themselves at the top of the list, top of the food chain, top of the pyramid, etc. "god gave us special privileges and "rights" to do whatever we want and always come out on top" not so!

this is where i see that most people finding themselves under attack are actually in a place of enlightenment, but there's too much to it to explain it in one post.  it's also an area where i feel that the physical, astral, and extraterrestrial overlap. many people are opening up to many other levels of existence at this time and since GOD is typically viewed as the creator of ALL things, then it is complete ignorance to believe that this GOD exists in all absoluteness for us "humans" only.

those under attack are suffering a severe change in their perspectives. it's nothing we are capable of closing our eyes to, and my personal opinion is nor should we. it's difficult in any situation to have your mind "torn open". people who have undergone kundalini awakenings may understand this, but in the long run it is well worth the trip, the dedication, the work involved to get through to the other side...if there is of course a "final" destination. keeping the mind, the eyes, the heart open at all expense...that is the lesson that makes us stronger. in the beginning it comes across as "attack", because it "threatens" all we are "comfortable" and "familiar" with. in the long run it is something very different indeed... when you are capable of standing in a place outside of yourself, when there is no longer a desire to take everything "personally"...then there is no such thing as attack...and oh so much room to grow.

y'all know me...i can go on forever about how it all works, and none of it is relevant in the end. don't trust my words unless something feels right for i am only a messenger.

in this physical world people like to believe that they are in control, that it is their "natural" god-given place to rule and it's all so straight-forward. if you don't like job = quit, if someone is abusing you = leave, if you're sick = take medicine, if you're fat = go on a diet, etc. all so simple and clean cut, but the criticisms, judgments, remedies and solutions are so quick to roll of the actual application they are far more difficult to carry out.

we DO have the ability to manifest whatever we need or desire, to heal and balance and re-create ourselves and the world(s) we live in. i'd hope that most people that have experience in the astral have a basic understanding of this. it does not come however through a weak mind, a lazy disposition or complete dependency on physical systems. only those that are capable of "letting go" and "putting aside" themselves/all they know and understand/all they think is going on...only those that open themselves up, or have agreed in the beyond to be "opened up" and remember to honor this agreement will move forward into this place of higher power. i hate to use guns as an example, but since this is a place to discuss "defense" i suppose it's fitting (and simple). i sit on the fence as far as gun-ownership is concerned, but i can say that it makes sense that the only people that should "own" guns should be mentally fit or compassionate people that are well trained and experienced with them. i would not like to walk around in a place where guns were handed out to every man, woman and child without a great understanding and respect for the tool they posses. the same goes for all powers "outside" the physical. if every tom, willy and harriet had to power to do whatever they pleased...things would end in total chaos.  

there is a reason that people dream, fantasize and play pretend. there is a reason people are drawn towards magic, the idea of manifestation and ultimate control over their lives. the ideas of being able to teleport ourselves wherever we wish, heal things with a thought, and step into some perfection of function physically, mentally, spiritually, etc. it is a semi-subconscious connection with a higher aspect of ourselves. we sense it, and it is there always for our utilization...however the steps and lessons involved in regaining that power is by no means a simple task. being a "good" person, going to church, having "faith", being open-minded, being "objective", serving and sacrificing for others whilst maintaining an open, balanced self, and a respect for all all just the tip of the iceberg. lessons, lessons, lessons, and the experience that is gained from it all...constantly testing our strength, our wisdom, and FLEXIBILITY to "see" if we are able to handle "our" true power.

man...can you tell that i miss posting?!?
enough rapping on this...i'm sure.
for as far back as i can see, humans have been ripping through the gifts like depraved children on christmas morning. it is something of a higher function to stop every now again to reflect on all we have been given, and give everything a chance to fall into its "naturally" place...including us. i very much think we have forgotten something vital, and we search for it so very desperately on a daily basis. it is so subtle a thing that may only appear when we stop searching and quiet ourselves, and how ironic that we live in a time when the path towards that power is the opposite of "normal". for all the mysfits, weirdos and freaks...who are tagged as imbalanced, crazy, depressed, anti-social, introverted, over-the-top and too much to handle...know that if you are capable of juggling ALL of it, and not so much "protect" yourself from the normal, acceptable, status quo of others, nor protect yourself against all the new information that is streaming into you as your channel opens up...but instead devourer it, digest it, take what is useful of it at the time and keep rolling along...then you are well on your way to a place where the average folk can only EVER dream of.

my 25 cents.

in regards to C_P's comment on peoples minds being like a TV...that is a sensible analogy, and it works to a far as changing channels are concerned...but i will protest on the idea that "we" are in COMPLETE CONTROL of our minds. WE ARE NOT...not at this time, not in this way. we cannot be the TV, the "PROGRAMMERS" & the "VIEWERS" at the same time (not in this physical realm that we insist we rule & occupy). that is part of the illusion that keeps us from waking up. once one begins to open up, and finds themselves under "attack"...every channel contains the same information, the same various scenarios. once you begin to tune in, your frequency changes, and you begin to receive more channels from other stations, other programmers. it can and is a most complicated position to hold and maintain wellness, but "turning off" is no longer an option. you don't grow and learn and develop by turning off, numbing down, or BLOCKING! period!!!

Souljah333 you play RPG's, read comic books, shop at wal-mart, masturbate, or have bad thoughts about other people?
ever flipped someone off? naughty-naughty!!! no dabbling in the etheric!
you might accidentally flip a switch.

god come across like some kind of nsa agent. silent is capable of thinking for herself. right?!? i mean you insist she is in ABSOLUTE control of her own mind, and then you follow up by telling her how she should be thinking.

she's already being stalked/attacked it doesn't get any worse than that (not really) what we are dealing with here is tactics for coping and moving on, not backing up and pretending all of it will go away. that's like being terrorized by a dog that has you cornered in the yard and everyone on the other-side of the fence yelling instructions at you. "the dog doesn't exist!" "you are in complete control!" "don't give your power away!"
.................yeah, right.

silent, the possibilities are up for grabs...follow your heart. in that much i think lola and i are on the same page, but i stress that you open your mind up to something beyond good and evil, where everything collides into some neutral zone where nothing is right or wrong...just different. it'll make what you're going through easier to work with. that was really my only point. if someone was beating the excrement out of you, or stalking you in real life...i'd tell you to call the cops, invest in a security system, buy a rottweiler, but we aren't dealing with the 3rd dimension here. i wasted a lot of time applying 3d rules to my situation. i don't want you to do the same. i'm pointing out options and that is all. i'm showing you doors...walking through them is up to you. i will remind you to be leery of ANYONE that stresses that they know exactly how it is, what it is, and how it should be dealt with. never trust anyone that says they know!
some people can't see past the choices they don't understand :wink:

other then that it's wide open.

time to come into your power baby. no doubt about that, whether you feel ready or not. it's no ones place to try and rescue you from yourself, not until you have fully explored all it has to offer, and if you reach the end of your rope you can always follow it back. god has your back, and if not that then at least trust in your higher-self which is an aspect of the "almighty". you wouldn't go to a mechanic because you had a toothache. i urge the same common sense here...inexperienced solutions are cheap.
take time and be patient with finding information that FEELS right. i'm not discounting anyone's input...just take it all with a grain of salt.
the way will come. always.

total respect


defensive lola?

i'd like to say don't waste your time defending something that you needn't have personalized in the first place (what i offered was for silentshadow not you), but since you insist on always coming at me with the same dull energy then maybe you'd be willing to waste a little more of it in explanation, rather than retaliation?!?

what on earth leads you to believe i'm schizo? i'd ask you to back up your position on how you absolutely know for sure that you are in control of your mind...but we've been down that path before, haven't we?!? never did get a solid explanation on that one. i'm guessing it's because it can't be proven?!?

convince me...don't just throw a handful of words.
i know you want to be "right". i can feel that. i have no idea what to do about it however. i can't make you feel right. it's something that has to come from deep inside you and fill you up. when you really get to a place where the truth flows forth in unlimited'll no longer have a need to attack, and separate yourself.

love & light :wink:

Souljah333 what if i told you that i was schizophrenic, and that it was a very debilitating disease for me, that i'd suffered terribly as a child, and have considered killing myself several times because i saw no hope for myself???
what if your snide little useless comment happen to catch me on a really, really bad day, and just because it was more important for you to puff yourself rather than continue with any "intelligent" information...
i offed myself over it?

isn't there some "maturity" gauge for being a moderator?

anyhow seems you still can't answer the questions. doesn't matter anyway, because i don't believe in schizophrenia, and as far as insisting that your mind is your own and you are in complete control of it. you can have that! i'll actually go as far as agreeing with you (in particular), because it's obvious that it's something you very much need to believe in. i'm not sure it's anything worth bragging about mind you. you want your mind to be a steel trap that nothing gets in or out of? you want to believe you hold the keys? fine...keep reinforcing that wall and hopefully you'll always be safe and happy. my mind however is a park, a playground, a free and open space, and a wonderful river of intelligence runs through it.

i'm not concerned with petty things like right and wrong, but feel free to unload whatever garbage is getting backed up behind those walls. i'm sure it proves necessary at times. i have no problem composting it all and turning it back into something useful.

you win by default because there's obviously no competition here.


Quote from: NodesOfYesodI love you Girls :D

I'm still looking for a emoticon that envolves two cats tearing at each other...;)

Seriously though, lets call it a draw and move on, ok?  I really don't feel like pulling out the BIG claws, they're so rusty of late.  8)



i don't care if my post was deleted. i don't need to know why, but i would appreciate knowing "who".




It was me that did it and for good reason.  I figured I didn't need to explain, that you would get the hint.  Stop fanning the flames or I will lock this thread.



you know...this is the only forum i post to where people have to PM me in support of what i'm saying. i find that really strange that members don't feel comfortable posting whatever they wish to. my last post wasn't an attempt to fan any flames...that's something that doesn't need assistance here. it's a point i have wanted to make for a while now...this "marking of territory" which i am assuming is what got the post deleted. i just don't see the necessity of jack boots and the patronizing chit-chat. it was a call out for something intelligent, but response. just a demonstration of authority over a harmless member. i've offered a lot of myself here, and none of it has been detrimental or meaningless...or worthy of being trashed.
i'm not a trouble maker by any means.

i make one justifiable comment and you're going to lock a decent and helpful thread to many? that's a reasonable soul-ution??? hmm. doesn't seem right to lock "silentshadows" thread when the moderators issues are with me.

seems it would be more in keeping with this forum to ban me altogether?!?

it's your call nay.
i think i offer a unique and helpful perspective to this forum, but maybe that's threatening?!? i think an explanation was necessary. i think the micro-managing gets a little too much. obviously there is not enough flaming taking it's taken to a lesser level. whatever fills those hours.




Sorry you took my last response to your post as an invitation for a debate, it wasn't.

Please take Runlola's suggestion and move on.  Let's see how good you are at taking a hint when it is presented in a matter of a fact way.


Silent Shadow

Confused? @.@

So... block them out.. or.. something about neutral zone.. erm... x.X... I guess this'll take me a little time to sort out everything... seeing that I haven't been on the forum for a little while... come back with like... 16 posts to read or something like that... haha =P... well lately they haven't really bothered me; used to follow me around and stuff non stop... now its just at night... I'm sorta afraid of practicing to try to get an OBE or AP...

Just sort of curious.. are these things really evil... or is it just the only way they know how to live? Maybe its just a mind trick... I dunno see the other day.. I was riding my bike home and at the stop light ahead of me I saw/felt the shadows floating above some object on the floor... I could feel its gaze on me... When I got to where it was; I looked down and saw a big; pretty, yellow flower. People passed by the flower; you would think someone would have taken it; but I just got one of those hunches; as if it was speaking to me... saying that it was for me...

I took the flower home and put it in a vase and let it be in my room....

.... was that not a good idea? To take a gift from... a shadow?

~Silent Shadow
May the force be with you. Always

Silent Shadow

oh yeah... I forgot to say in my  last post that the flower also looked/felt evil... *goldenrod yellow... not sure what type of flower it was either...*

... just.. why would a shadow want to give me a gift?
May the force be with you. Always

Philly Bob

Hello Silent Shadow,

Quote from: Silent Shadow
So far, prayer is the best thing that works for me... but I wanna get rid of these things... And I got that gut feeling that there IS a way... cause nothing is impossible... btw, thanks for all the help I've been getting so far.

Then use it!  Prayer can be very, very powerful.  Most people probably have no idea just how powerful prayer can be.

What is your religious background?  Do you ever attend religious services?  If so, how often?  This information will help me to tailor my suggestions to fit your particular situation.

Best wishes,


P.S.  I live in a haunted house, so I have a little bit of experience in dealing with unwanted invisible guests.

Philly Bob

Hello Silent Shadow,

Quote from: Silent Shadow
Just sort of curious.. are these things really evil... or is it just the only way they know how to live?

Yes dear, they are evil.  I don't mean to frighten you any more than you already are, but these beings are what are commonly referred to as "demons."  You can also call them "negative entities," a term that doesn't have any religious connotations, and which may be a more apt description.  You said yourself that they are disgusted by things such as faith, love, and hope.  You shouldn't need any more proof than that.

Quote from: Silent Shadow
I took the flower home and put it in a vase and let it be in my room....

.... was that not a good idea? To take a gift from... a shadow?

~Silent Shadow

I don't know, but it probably wasn't a good idea.  Since we don't know what its motivations are regarding the flower, it is better to err on the side of caution.  I would get rid of the flower.  At the very least, you should not keep it in your room.

Best wishes,



You have received excellent advice to date.  Work with what you have been taught; and I do have one tidbit that may help.

Years ago I had numerous confontations with an agressive spirit in my house.  The final night of our ongoing confrontation occured when he was harassing my infant son.  Upon entering the room to see what had the little guy so terrified I saw him.  It had breached the final boundary.  I lashed out with a mental curse, attracting it full atention.

After that it would not leave me alone.  I closed my eyes, focused, and visualized a long flexible fluid object.  When I was ready I lashed out with it as if it was a whip.  You must concentrate and maintain your focus.  I missed on the first attempt, but on the second I could feel that I found my target.  Never bothered us again.

Don't give up, you are stonger that them.


I have been having a little bit of trouble with shadow people as well.
For the past 2 months are so I was suffering from severe depression. I also had mysteriously stopped projecting, but I guess thats normal to happen every once in a while.

Anyways, after 2 months of no projections I had a RTZ projection. I flew out of my house and began flying down the street, when I saw 1 shadow person infront of a neibhours house. It moved at extreme speed and I think it had ran from my house and followed me. I started to lower down to the ground but then my projection ended abrubtly (another problem I was having prior to the OBE's stopping 2 months earlier).

I researched and found out that 'Shadow People" are a common manifestation.

About a week ago I was lucky enough to have another RTZ projection. I remembered the shadow person and when I was in my front yard I called him out. I then saw him creep out of my garage. I tried to build up energy in my hand and then jumped at him and punched him in the heart chakra area. I remember it felt like punching jelly and my astral arm went right through him, then the projection ended again.
Since then the depression has stopped.
I don't know if these things are real demons or if they are just thoughtforms, but from my experience they can effect your physical life and I think they can be killed or at least scared off.


Hmm.. seems that depression is something of a key issue in dealings with the 'shadow people'? I've been depressed on and off (nothing too serious) for years, but had no prior experiences like this before.

My experience with the 'shadow people' occurred about a year ago. I was in bed, reading a book when suddenly I got this intense feeling that something other than me was in the room.
I could easily place its location in the room, but I didn't dare to look that way. But even though I didn't look that way, I could see the entire room before me and see the outlines of a shadowy 'being'. No introductions here, I just felt intense energy directed towards me, I would describe it as 'negative'. It felt like the energy was about to get inside my head and do.. something, I don't know what. But I wouldn't let it and I resisted, under the pressure that if I "let go" it would probably kill me.
It felt like this went on for hours, but in reality it didn't. After a while I could feel the 'pressure' getting weaker and then disappear. I felt the 'being' was gone, but some of the bad energy was still in the room.
After this first encounter I've had some other experiences with 'attacks' on me, but with knowing what I was dealing with I fend it off with prayer and one time I got mad and did what another poster suggested; made fun of it.
I have still to face attack by multiple of these beings, and I'm not looking forward to it... but I think I can handle it, learning from my fears the first time and knowing that there is a way to "scare" them off. Just have to remember that I'm a divine being that is capable of sending whatever that is back to the lower dimensions of hell (or where ever they are coming from) :)

Silent Shadow

all right, Silent Shadow here again...

OK, so, you're Guy's advise was great.

It got rid of them for about 2 months.

I am not entirely sure if these are shadows that have returned... well *the shadow master is still here.. i KNOW that.. he just wont leave T_T even after I kicked all of their negative butts mentally and made one disappear forever, but now they are seeking revenge, so basically, I'm thinking...

... um, am I screwed?? well I have gotten stronger, but I think so did they.

Well, lately, this is what they are doing..

They are slowly coming back, currently all living in my closet (yes sounds cliche but, its called cliche for a reason)

Well I have these dreams.. well long story short

Its like basically like clones of the shadow master... but even creepier, they roll around alone and stuff

But they have eyes  like O___O that are burning with evil, hatred, and death... violence.. and the want for revenge

and they are sorta stalking me... (they wont let that image leave my mind) I try to block it, but then i feel something negative, so they send it back into my mind

.. its a lot creepier then it sounds...

well anyways, any ideas on what this is?

Is this the return of the shadows, or something negative coming after me?

(FYI: my room, even people who aren't "aware" can feel these evil things in my room)

Any info welcome

~Silent Shadow
May the force be with you. Always


My sincere advice, and I believe so strongly in it that I will guarantee it will make 'them' go away forever.

Stop thinking about them. If you think about them anyway, tell yourself they're not real and also make them into a joke. Stop being afraid. Believe you cannot be hurt, and that they and anything else cannot do anything to bother you. Be strong, be unafraid, be confident, and be light-hearted. If you're faced with them anyway, simply calm yourself completely and be at peace- in doing so they will be effectively neutralized.


Dear Draege,

Your sincere advice is useful, but not in this situation. I would be correct in assuming that you have never been under full blown demonic attack before, correct?!? In this realm the logical rules don't apply. No harm in trying, the suggestion is made often in this forum, but typically from those who have no idea how terrifying or bind-blowing the whole experience can be.

Dear Silent,

Sorry to hear that things are continuing, and possibly concentrating. You don't have to tell me about the closet...i know very well! You are correct about becoming stronger, and their ability to match that. Not sure if you remember me saying that the 'tricks' only work for so long. That you'll find something to alleviate the attacks, which will work for a while, and then they'll build up a resistance to it. It's actually a fairly symbiotic situation. You must remember that you are doing the same thing...building up a resistance, and becoming stronger with everything they try as well. In this light they are not all powerful...or all evil. You can forget about that, as it will only stagnate your mind with fear.

I had also mentioned that the lessor shadow beings...'the watchers' as you were experiencing in the beginning would lead way to more intense creatures. There isn't any comfort in that (of course), but know that you are not alone in this. There are many people that are going through the exact same thing, seeking solutions and answers and being consumed with it all. In this sense Draege is not wrong, where you will benefit from not "fretting" about it constantly. I know this is really hard. My attacks are not anywhere near as intense as they use to be...but I do remember how it effected all areas of my life. Not being able to get a good nights rest is also a real problem that compounds over time.

You might consider heading over to AstralDynamics and speaking with DarkKnight about some anti-static sheeting that a few are experimenting with with some success. also a thread there about "pumice" that might be worth reading. i really think you should consider finding other forums or 'support' groups that can 'relate'. you need to talk to other people that are going through the same thing you are. It really doesn't help to be around people that will always lean towards the mental issues &/or religion, faith, etc. Those are all givens & they're not cures as I'm sure you are need to be involved in collaborating on something that really gets results, and may help others down the road.
I think it would help to put things in a better/more productive  perspective. might also take some time to meditate on when all this began. Really look into that question...and be aware of what comes up.
I really feel this can be "key" to finding a solution.


Wronski Feint

Quote from: Souljah333In this realm the logical rules don't apply

Its been my experience that demons must follow rules too.  Mabye not all of ours but they are not given total controll.  And once a human is in that 'realm' we can break rules, so its really an even playing field.

This is just MY perspective on it.  Im not saying that youre wrong.
"Come and See"
So I looked, and behold a dark angel.  And the name of him was Life, and Hell fell before him.
And power was given to him over the whole of the earth, to clense with mind, with sword, with light and by the love of the earth.


wasn't going to bother posting again, unless silent shadow was in need of some more support...but, what the hell. :wink:

i meant the logical 'human' rules don't apply. of course everything appears to fall under universal law, but that wasn't my point. my point was...just bcuz black is black, & up is up, and right is...well. i'll leave that one alone. it can be very much "through the looking glass" when traversing the astral. everything one "thinks" they know about here and now...can in fact cause problems in the thereafter.

and as far as the playing field is concerned...i'd have to say from personal experience that it is far from even. though i feel this where are differences in opinion cross paths. control freaks (as you like to insist i am)( we all are to a certain degree. if you can figure out how to dispose of the ego &/or let me know! :roll:) anyway...humans will typically enter "unknown" situations utilizing what they consider to be sound logic (if they are in anyway conscious at the time) and in a round about way (although putting their best foot forward) are in fact limiting their abilities. i don't accept that this can be 'taught' seems more applicable and comfortable when it's learned first hand. sure it can be all be equal, as well the tables can be flipped...but it's something that can only be experienced. the words mean nothing.