The Astral Pulse

I had posted this in another thread and I cannot remember which. I wanted to bring attention to it for a reason. Why isn't Robert's possession mentioned or spoken about more often here, especially given the dramatic life and death circumstances he endured not only with himself but his infant son at the time? Why aren't more people on this site aware of what a powerful neg can really do and inflict (why is this always relegated to the mind)?

Practical Psychic Self Defense on pages 135-142.

Here's an excerpt on page 136. Robert was doing an exorcism on a child and frustrated that he was unable to defeat it, he offered himself to the neg in replacement of the child thinking he'd get rid of it later. The neg took his offer, and Robert discovered he was in over his head. This is what happened next:

"...Soon, I began losing control of my body, one part at a time. The first episode of this was while reading; my arm moved on its own, picked up a book, and tossed it on the floor. This shocked me, but I still felt okay. I did not sense anything evil or threatenting in or around me. Incidents of brief loss of control increased over the next two weeks. It was not long before I knew I was in deep trouble.

The episodes of loss of control culminated in an incident in which I lost control completely. I was on a roof-top car park, lifting my baby son from my car. As if a switch had been thrown, I suddenly lost control of my body. Powerless, I was marched like a puppet carrying my son to the edge, even while I was fighting my own muscles every step of the way. I suspected the Neg in me was going to make me throw my son off the roof and then have me jump.

The strength of the mental pressure I felt was unbelievable. I did not hear voices or experience insane thoughts. This was not a compulsion. I was sane and rational. I just had no control of my body, as if suddenly struck with physical paralysis and someone else was now running my body. Thankfully, with a supreme act of will and some much-needed luck, I broke free of the puppet-like state at the last possible moment. But I no longer trusted myself after this event.

A couple of days later, I woke up (I seemed to have been sleepwalking) and found myself in the nursery with a raised ax. I got rid of the ax. I found myself back there the next night with a carving knife. I tried everything I knew of to rid myself of this Neg, but whatever I did was not enough. I was faced with only two "logical" choices: I could turn myself into a mental hospital or commit suicide. Then, I came up with a third option: I could surrender to my higher self and let it lead me out of the darkness rapidly overtaking my life. I sensed this would be difficult and probably kill me in the process anyway, but I had nothing to lose and everything to gain. I could always kill myself later."

The rest details his fight with the neg out in the Bush. Bruce left home for his family's safety and spoke candidly about he though he wouldn't be coming back alive.

Wow... umm... kay... *looks sternly at Brucey*

Wow. What happens to all the people who can't deal with possesion?

Well that's my point exactly. Ever since I got here, all I hear from people when it comes to neg attack is that it is the product of your imagination, as if neg interaction were like a vidoe game you control. Does the above story sound like a video game?

People come here for help by exchanging ideas with other people undergoing the same thing. Maybe it doesn't get rid of the neg altogether, but at least they have a support system.

I just finished reading that book by RB. It has made me aware of the unseen forces but also has made understand how to deal with them. Although I am lucky in not having much neg problems at all. But I am now aware of the overtures they make and I have my defences up now.

Robert Bruce's experience is important in that it showed me the importance of minimizing the negs influence. I hope to be able to help some of the people around me who are at risk.

One risk in all this is that some people may assume that its an all or nothing deal. That all difficult situations are caused by negs. I believe that I have been in some situations in which negs were clearly behind events. Others I cannot see it being more than just life's circumstances.

I think Negs are real, but not all bad things can be attributed to them. Some times the bump in the night may just be the wood creaking, sort of speak.

Quote from: LogicWow. What happens to all the people who can't deal with possesion?

Suicide, Prison or Insane Asylums.

Exactly, it's time to start educating people on the truth.

they don't want to know it
how can you possibly live knowing that you can lose control of your own body
that is why they choose ignorance and that vague feeling of safety
safety comes from knowledge, not ignorance
don't waste your time, because you would have to first prove them plethora of prerequesites
but be with them if they need it

let them dwell, it's their sincere choice

I live with knowing I lose control of my body. It's not on the full scale level of possession though, it usually occurs when I'm tired, overheated, overexerted, or am walking on a low-friction surface, especially when carrying something heavy. Oy... scariness, but we recover. I'm sure mental possessions are similar, perhaps more exerting on the victim of it.

I'm curious how Robert Bruce would rank himself in terms of power to other psychic entities out there. Whatever that creature was, mean or not, he's strong, and I'm interested in that strength.

Quote from: AndromacheExactly, it's time to start educating people on the truth.

What is the truth, isn't it different for everyone? Whats to say that an exorcism can't cure a deranged person, or that medication cant cure a possessed person?

There seems to be a LOT of possibility in this area..

QuoteWhat is the truth, isn't it different for everyone? Whats to say that an exorcism can't cure a deranged person, or that medication cant cure a possessed person?

Truth is constrained by reality and the consequences of your actions. We all live on the same planet and our actions affect the world around us and others. We're not separate and disconnected from Life.We impact others and others impact us.

My exorcism failed, and many of the exorcists I talk to are shocked at how it is taking multiple exorcisms to get rid of a possessing neg. Even multiples are failing completely.

That's not to say there is no hope, just that we have to work harder to defeat them than we did in the past. And for the ones we can't defeat, we give understanding and compassion to the afflicted. REAL love defeats these things in the end.

What exactly could you experience when being attacked by negs, or possesion or what ever. I would like a complete list of all the physical things that can be experienced, if possible?

Orchild,
I can't think of the complete (if there is one) list of symptoms that can point to demon possession off the top of my head, but some are
random blackouts
loss of physical control
extreme heat or coldness
weight loss
distinctive change in facial features

As you can see, alone, these could point to other diseases, but if several of these are present along with obvious negative mental effects, it may be a possession. look online for a more complete list (but be sure to compare several to make sure that one isn't a fake)

I'd like to bring up the difference between possession and obsession (not in the "manic interest in one idea/subject" sense of the word)

Possession-the entity actually takes control of the victim's physical body
Obsession-the entity "obsesses" the victim with negative ideas and constantly is "in their head"

Anyone else heard of these two classifications?

There is also what Robert describes as Virtual Puppetry, which is when the neg takes total control:

pages 154 – 155, on the topic of Virtual Puppetry, both his encounters with virtual puppets and his experience becoming a virtual puppet:

Virtual Puppetry

I have experienced this state several times myself, but only for a minute or two each time. I have questioned others with possession experience and found similar symptoms reported. In virtual puppetry, a Neg forces full mind/body dissociation and takes control over one's physical body. Logically, this is accomplished by Negs working through the autonomic nervous system (reflex system), using this as a back door to gain control over the physical body.

In principle, this mechanism is similar to how any set of complex actions is learned, such as learning to walk, do karate, play a musical instrument, or ride a bike. Through exhaustive, repetitive training, humans program themselves to carry out sequences of complex, delicately timed actions without having to think about them. Often these actions are so complex that training the autonomic nervous system is the only way they can be done; if one thought about how to do them, one would be able to do them.

That is why Negs habitually use psychological conditioning processes to gain control over humans. Advanced Negs know how to condition the human body and its autonomic nervous system in such a way as to gain full control. At the time I was possessed, while the Neg was conditioning me and learning how to use my body, some interesting observations came to light.

The occasional involuntary actions I experienced were fast, smooth and precise; they were not muscular twitches. For example, my hand and arm would suddenly reach out, pick up something then throw it; this was a fast, smooth, precise action. My controlled hand did not just lash out crudely and knock something over; rather, those movements had the signs of trained reflex actions.

Virtual puppetry is the stuff of which nightmares are made. Suddenly, your mind is forcibly dissociated from your physical body. Amidst feelings of whole body pressure, you float in a surreal dreamlike world. You feel arms and legs moving of their own accord, and it's much like an OBE or lucid dream, but you have zero control over the actions or words of your physical body. Your mind feels numb, weak, under relentless mental pressure. It's very quiet inside and the world outside seems at a distance. You are a powerless observer.

It's easy to think this is a dream and give in to the pressure. You sense your physical body, but as if from a distance. You know when it is walking, but it's like walking on huge fluffy pillows. If your body picks up something, you are aware of this happening but cannot feel what is in your hand. It's as if your thinking mind has been forced outside your body.

I've never been possessed, if RB's strong, why has he? Do the proficient attract danger through their power, or because they wade into it in the process of saving weaker people from it?

I think we need to remember that Robert is an exception to the rule.  He is very adept at going places that us normal folk will never go, thus never having such spectacular experiences.  

And frankly, I could do without all the creepy things he has come across.  So I'm totally fine with sitting on the side lines and just listening to his experiences.

Nay

He got that creepy neg from that kid he was trying to protect. I don't think that kid was astral projecting.

This can happen to anyone. The best defense is knowledge.

Quote from: AndromacheHe got that creepy neg from that kid he was trying to protect. I don't think that kid was astral projecting.

This can happen to anyone. The best defense is knowledge.

Well, actually, sometimes this is utterly wrong.

In individuals with weak willpowers, it's better to let them believe that they can't get possesed. Such people would be ones that have had a rough time with life and thus have little will to live.

I would like to point out that while possession is most definitely true, it is quite rare. I would say 98% of the population need not worry about it, but for the rest there are some resourced and ways to get help.

In a possession case, the demon is usually influincing from the mental plane of existince. In each case, the demon is not literally inside your physical body, but has what (in my view) looks to be either a cord or pipe connected to the individual through the core of thier psyche. (the mind, at it's deepest and biggest level past the subconscious, has a huge connection to the mental plane.)

This "gate" is usually well protected by your own energies, but if a being knows you well enough to find the keys, it can get it.

QuoteIn individuals with weak willpowers, it's better to let them believe that they can't get possesed. Such people would be ones that have had a rough time with life and thus have little will to live.

Why do you say it's better for these people to not believe they can be possessed?  It won't change whether or not they become possessed--their belief has nothing to do with it.

I never believed in possession...or the devil.  In fact, when I read an abductee story where the guy became possessed, I said to myself "that could only happen to someone who is religious."  

And then I had a nightmare of a possession experience.  Belief_has_nothing_to_do_with_it.

Trying to draw you out, Dragon.   :)   I was looking forward to talking to you about my own experience via IM, but we haven't connected.  But it's good this webboard exists, because we can all share our experiences publicly, and thus with everyone who lurks too.

Kaili,

What was your experience like?  

As for telling people not to believe they can be possessed, it may be so that they don't worry about it and therefore don't go subconsciously looking for trouble.

QuoteI would like to point out that while possession is most definitely true, it is quite rare. I would say 98% of the population need not worry about it, but for the rest there are some resourced and ways to get help.

Do you know for a fact that you are or are not that 2% that gets affected? Does anyone?

This CAN happen to anyone.

And Robert mentioned something in his book that negs attack him because of his work in fighting them. I've also heard strong spiritual types attract negs out of fear on the negs part. Lou Gentile has often mentioned that exorcists get attacked regularly by negs and are never the same.

That's why we need faith.

He's done stuff that we'll never do? What is this, a cult? I agree he does sound advanced to have come out with this material, and I respect that, but I don't like having to give deference like that. I don't want to sit on the sidelines all my life.

Besides, if he can get possessed, then even worse could happen to those less experienced, those weaker, so we should get stronger. Stronger than even the entity.

Sometimes, strength of willpower makes the biggest difference in fighting off a possession.  I havn't ever been possessed by anything nearly as strong as the one that took over Robert Bruce, but when I was attacked by such entities ( the most recent being last March), I found that the most important thing is holding your own.  Using energy cleansing, shielding etc. come after.

Kalli: when people get afraid, they have a tendancy to attract these things to them more easily.

Andromoche: It was an approximate number used as an example only ;) Yes, it is true that anyone can get possesed, however (and thankfully) they don't.

Hmm... it makes you wonder... with all the new age energy channeling meditation mumbo jumbo out these days, you have people using a lot of methods like shielding as opposed to the more traditional method of gritting your teeth and grunting your way through it by being tough, using willpower (or stubbornness).

My question is this... would the reliance on techniques like shielding, while replacing that function, reduce one's ability to tooth-grit, and thus make one more vulnerable to entity possession since they no longer possess that once necessary thing?

Hmmm I'm so creative I might even move this to its own topic...

i agree with spectral dragon that possession occurs on the mental plane which i percieve as "above" the astral..the mental body is related to the will and the nervous system. from here the subconscious can be accessed:memories can be manipulated in order to create emotional responses and also fears can be stimulated. the nervous system can be infiltrated to control the physical body.
      maybe it does just come down to will verses will.cravings give power to a foreign will if you indulge them.in this way i think it is just a constant fight to try and figure how to express yourself and not somebody elses.it can be complicated by long term subconscious influences-what is your will, what is theirs?
       also there is a basic problem in any psychic invasion dynamic; resistance is food for aggressors.self love or any "psositivity" is empowering for any "evil" force."lifeforce" in resistance, healing or love can be yummy food AND so can terror and guilt. so although defending yourself is a good job in the sense that the universe always seems to pay another self defense check, it can also be eaten up instantly.this can fuel a long term codependency between host and leech.
       a smart "neg' has chosen to disconnect from their own lifeforce, anyone can reconnect if they want.but in a world so intensely psychicly violent, it seems scary to be connected to that lifeforce-youre just prey.
        i want to be connected to my "lifeforce'and to own my will.so far it is a daily struggle,

Hi Missfix

I just caught up with your posts and relate totally to your experiences and many of your conclusions.  People like us who know that these things feed on positive thoughts/emotions (including love) are in the rarity.  

I don't know what to tell you or how to help because I am dealing with a similar situation, but just wanted to tell you, we are not alone.  You sound amazingly logical considering what you are going through--the first reaction is to fall back on a belief system and many here are trying to integrate their beliefs with the contradictions they are experiencing.  It's a painful process.  It sounds as if you have started with a clearer slate.  Not that it helps the situation, but it helps with understanding.

I hope you keep posting and sharing even if others here can't help--your words open other people's eyes and make clear that the simple New Age mantras that have been going around the last ten years as gospel (we are all one, love is the most powerful force in the universe, it's our own minds creating this, etc) is no less a belief system than any other religion.  The only TRUTH is what is happening--and only the person experiencing it is qualified to analyze and explain it.  Some people are better at integrating their experiences than others, and you have a lot to offer in your sharing.  

It helps tremendously just to be believed.  That's about the only think I can offer anybody else going through this now--I believe you.

Hello MissFixx
  Love and goodness are not food for negs. It gives them problems and will repulse them. Loving yourself and any positive emotions help to resist the negativity they try to push into you to open your access points so they can affect your life.
  Self-sacrifice for the better of his family was an enpowering emotion that should have helped to defeat any negative spirit. It plus the running water were the basis of being rid of the entity. It could not fight the love of someone for their family that was ready to sacrifice himself for them to overcome it.
  Everyone with negative entity problems hit a breaking point where they use their will and good emotions to overcome problems. It is different for different people.
     Nita

oh and uh...remember that what you say is um, creative, so like, if csomebody posts a simple solution that might inspire confidence and hope or strengthen us, i would say dont bonk with that post, thanks and watch the communication beneath your post as in 'those who believe in the devil already belong to him'? see what i am saying?  does your post look for an answer or merely inspire fear? thats what i see here, i mean, what is your intention when you ask questions that you know cant necessarily be answered and cant necessarily be resolved...just talk about things that work and what has worked...thats what i think but you know i usually dont get into this kinda deal, im just trying to shake a crappy demon or something.
hahaa. :) you know? be creative, i think.

QuoteIt helps tremendously just to be believed. That's about the only think I can offer anybody else going through this now--I believe you.

It helps to be validated that you are a person. Validating helps people remember that they are part of the human and deserving of of the same respect and love that is deserved of all life here. Being human doesn't require a sufficient enough excuse to be qualified.

And I sacrificed myself while under attack considerably while under attack to protect my family, especially my one sibling...it didn't halt the attacks it increased them. I almost died, the constant self sacrifice depleted me of everything (you can sacrifice too much) that gave me strength. I didn't start getting better until I got help and someone else was picking up part of the load.

And if what you say to people has such profound importance and impact, whether positive or negative, why is it only true only to a person saying such things to self. Doesn't being and saying negative thing to other people have an impact on the person receiving it.
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well, i offer my validity for all attacked
and this is not belief ...
emotions don't work
will does

Nita
positive emotions are used to empower will
like you said, different things for different people
edit: positive emotions refering to nita's post

There are no positive or negative emotions it's what we do with them (the actions we take) that makes them positive or negative. We have the right to feel happiness if that is our will and we have the right to be angry as well. We can feel rage over an injustice and channel it into a more positive countermeasure. But wee nedd the freedom to feel to have the freedom to choose appropriately.

The minute you start making any emotion a crime you create an atmosphere for emotional dishonesty...who wants to be deemed as negative after all.

We need emotional honesty to know who we are, what are strengths and weakenss are, etc. Without it, we start to disconnect from ourselves, life and the Creator.

i said don't work, nothing more, nothing less

Yeah I think iw as agreeing with you ^_^

well, whatever ;)

Those who believe in the devil already belong to him?

Whoever said this must then belong to the devil, and we can't trust their words ;)

Hello Everyone
  Some suggestions for everyone out there. The will of defending your family and love is stronger than any other power when it is used with a natural defense such as running water. You need to have will, belief, and faith in a positive resolution after exorcisms. Exorcisms will not work if the person does not work upon themselves and the mental habits and emotional abuse issues from possession. A person who does not work upon themselves and why they get possessed will go through multiple exorcisms until they overcome their personal issues.
  It does not mean they are bad people but it does mean they have to close off the access point within their emotional makeup. Access points are what allows negative energies to block you from the good.
  Magical access and permission is also a way where you get possessed. Robert in this instance gave magical permission for it to inhabit him so it would quit harming the boy. It was a brave courageous thing to do as was his decision to deal with it where he could not hurt anyone or anything. It shows Robert is quite a person. I have met him in person and can say that is very true of him.
  Now for the order of how you do things. You always shield first as it will help prevent things in the first place. You never give any permission to anyone to access you without stating the reason such as healing or protection. Most magicians are ethical but it pays to be careful.
  You never channel any force without stating it only has permission to access you once and may cause you no problems or harm. You specify what can be done to yourself.
  Any banishing should be followed by a blessing to bring good back into your life. You should have positive energies and results. It is not emotional bondage to not like ourselves when we are controlled by jealousy, rage or anger. It is a time to look at ourselves and really think if that is what we should allow ourself to act like to others.
  You should research your methods and work upon yourself and what you do not like about yourself. You should listen to others about your personality and think about what they say and how you should apply that knowledge. It really helps to keep yourself in emotional balance. You will not be susceptible to possession if you are in equilibrium. It takes years to accomplish this but is worth it. A simpler way is to do the core image methods and others mentioned in Robert's book Practical Psychic Self-defense.
  They all are things that should be done to help yourself. I also suggest some of the articles upon my website. I have helped many people over the years and tested everyone of them hundreds of times.
         Nita

Quote from: NitaHello MissFixx
  Love and goodness are not food for negs. It gives them problems and will repulse them. Loving yourself and any positive emotions help to resist the negativity they try to push into you to open your access points so they can affect your life.
 

I agree with this, negs will often try to invoke self-hatred and lack of confidence in their victim because the opposite positive emotions make things difficult for them. What I have found with my own experiences is that when my heart chakra is fully functioning and buzzing, that this somehow repels negs (or makes it so they can not affect me). It is probably a combination of the fact that I get a feeling of 'connection' to the Divine/Higher Self through this chakra (although I know the main one is the Crown chakra) and I also feel 'balanced' because of it. It is like in martial arts where balance is very important. And in Kabballah and exercises such as the Middle Pillar Exercise the Sephira called Tiphareth is the place of balance and also associated with the heart chakra and where one makes initial contact with ones Holy Guardian Angel/Higher Self.

And I don't know about anyone else but when my heart chakra is buzzing I get very strong sensations of Love that are extremely close to ecstasy.  It is like it is a higher form of energy/vibration that the low-level vibration/energy of negs has no way of affecting or influencing, in a similar way that negs are stuck in Yesod/Astral and therefore are not able to access/affect higher spiritual realms/Tiphareth.

So what Negs do, I think, is to do what they can to bring one down to their level (or attempt to block ones access to higher levels to begin with) of vibration where they can then more easily influence one.

Perhaps the idea isn't exactly to stop neg attacks against oneself but to make it so that the attacks have no place to land or attach to and therefore have no effect anyway. What if this is some kind of barrier put up by the Higher spiritual realms so that no being with any negativity in them can get past the "negs" and therefore to "Heaven"? To get to "Heaven" and past the Negs one has to find Love and compassion and exorcise all forms of negativity from oneself that one is holding onto?

Hello MacArthur
  I have an article called energy configurations in cursed and hexed people that you might find interesting. It is on my website. A negs or curses purpose is to block our access to our higher self. Positive higher vibrations and the higher spiritual levels. Balance and the higher vibrations of positive emotions are all important.
  Positive emotions are a shield which helps to prevent the negs from having a place to land. I have never been possessed because I know what I am as a person and I shield all levels of myself. The more in balance you are the less effect they will have upon you.
  All negative emotions such as stress, worry, anxiety, anger, hatred and rage will cause your vibrations to lower. The things you wish upon others give access points for it to happen to you. I have been as guilty of all of these things as everyone else is in life.
  I know when I have been in battles or being cursed because I am blocking others from being harmed my peripheral things in life are always stressed. It includes things like being the one the bank makes the mistake in the account balance, being the one that gets the flat on the hill in the worse traffic spot, all the little things of life to get those rotten emotions going on so they unbalance you.
  It is how access points are created where a neg landing on them will put you right back in the negative moments of your life. The only way to make it so the negs can not use these access points is finding a method that removes them. Robert Bruce's core image removal technique is one of the most successful for this. I also have a Removing Negativity Prayer upon my website that has helped a lot of people. I get thanks all of the time from people who have used it.
  Nita

A great post and an excellent article Nita. I'll read more of them later. Right now I am feeling all aglow again as I feel the warmth in my heart chakra with no attack from this neg I have been fighting. It really is like a form of psychic sheild.

What we are talking about reminded me of a quote from a Novel by Crowley. I'll quote the relevant part below:

http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/moonchild/mc05.html
OF THE THING IN THE GARDEN; AND OF THE WAY OF THE TAO

(snip)

"I'm afraid I, too, like danger and excitement!" cried Lisa.

    "I'm afraid you do! However, since Brother Cyril asks it, the Way of the Tao shall be trodden so far as this is possible: What would Brother Cyril do?"

    "I should take the Magic Sword, make the appropriate symbols, and invoke the Names Divine appurtenant thereto: the Thing, shrivelled and blasted, would go back to those that sent it, screaming in agony, cursing at the gods, ready to turn even on its employers, that they might wail with it in torment."

    "One of the best numbers on the programme," said Simon Iff. "Now see the other way!"

    "Yes: if your way is better than that!" cried the girl, her eyes gleaming.

    "It isn't my way," said the mystic, with a sudden inflection of solemnity. His voice rose in a low monotonous chant as he quoted from "The Book of the Heart girt with the Serpent."

    "I, and Me, and Mine were sitting with lutes in [65] the market-place of the great city, the city of the violets and the roses.

    "The night fell, and the music of the lutes was stilled.

    "The tempest arose, and the music of the lutes was stilled.

    The hour passed, and the music of the lutes was stilled.

    "But Thou art Eternity and Space; Thou art Matter and Motion; and Thou art the Negation of all these things. For there is no symbol of Thee."

    The listeners were thrilled to the marrow of their bones. But the old man merely gathered a handful of dittany leaves from the chased golden box where they were kept, and led the way to the garden.

    It was very dark; nothing could be distinguished but the outlines of the shrubs and the line of the fence beyond.

    "Do you see the Thing?" said Iff.

    Lisa strained her eyes.

    "You mustn't look for anything very definite," said the mystic.

    "It seems as if the darkness were somehow different in that corner," said Lisa at last, pointing. "A sort of reddish tinge to the murk."

    "Oh dear me! if you will use words like 'murk'! I'm afraid you're all on Cyril's side! Look now! " And he put his hand on her head. With the other he offered her the dittany. "Chew one of these leaves!" he said.

    She took one of the silver-grey leaves, with its delicate snow-bloom, between her teeth.

    "I can see a sort of shapeless mass, dark-red," she said after a pause.

    "Now watch!" cried Iff. He took several steps into the garden, and raised his right hand. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law!" [66] he proclaimed in such a voice as once shook Sinai.

    Then he threw the rest of the dittany in the direction of the Thing.

    "By all the powers of the Pentagram!" shouted Cyril Grey; "he's deliberately making a magical link between it and Lisa." He bit his lip, and cursed himself in silence; he knew he had been startled out of prudence.

    Simon Iff had not noticed the outburst. He quoted "The Book of the Law," "Be strong!" he cried. "Enjoy all things of sense and rapture! There is no god that shall deny thee for this!"

    The Thing became coherent. It contracted slightly. Lisa could now see that it was an animal of the wolf type, couchant. The body was as big as that of a small elephant. It became quite clearly visible. It was a dull fiery red. The head was turned toward her, and she was suddenly shocked to see that it had no eyes.

    The old man advanced towards it. He had abandoned his prophetic attitude. His whole gait expressed indifference -- no, forgetfulness. He was merely a quiet old gentleman taking an evening stroll.

    He walked right into the Thing. Suddenly, as it enveloped him, Lisa saw that a faint light was issuing from his body, a pale phosphorescence which kindled warmly as he went. She saw the edges of the Thing contract, as if they were sucked inwards. This proceeded, and the light became intense. About a burning ovoid core dawned and vibrated the flashing colours of the rainbow. The Thing disappeared completely; at the same moment the light went out. Simon Iff was once again merely an old gentleman taking an evening stroll.

    But she heard a soft voice, almost as faint as an echo; it murmured: "Love is the law, love under will."

kaili, what are you doing right now to protect yourself from negs? The reason I keep asking you this (and you keep refusing to answer) is because I have found that negs will influence their victims into not doing anything by getting them to believe that nothing works. You seem to be saying that you believe nothing works for you, and I've been there, but this is exactly how negs work. It's not in their interest to let you or others know what hurts or affects them. And they go to great lengths to convince their victims that nothing works. I've noticed they are doing this with you in the way you say they laugh at various things you have tried. It's all psychological. Don't you see that they were mocking you to try and get you to beleive what they wanted you to? And it worked didn't it?

You can again complain that I am lecturing you but what I am telling you is true. And if you continue to refuse to take advice from others (which is exactly what the negs want) then no-one can help you. Do you want help or not?

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McArthur--you have been dealing with this problem which has gotten progressively worse for nearly seven years as far as I recall. Are you over it yet? No. Wink

No, it is an ongoing problem that has to be worked on. It seems to me that you are expecting some miracle cure for negs without having to do daily spiritual exercises. My neg trouble is easing precisely because I am now doing energy work, working on sheilding, and also accepting help from others. The thing with having the attention from negs is that one can't just get rid of them in one day and everything is then fine. One has to then do the sheilding and energy work daily and work on oneself spiritually in order to be able to reach and stay at a place where negs no longer have any effect. I am working on doing that, what are you doing?

I know exactly what you are doing. Nothing. And that is because your resident neg wants it that way. How do I know that? Because I've been through precisely the same manipulation. That's the thing about most negs, they use all the same tricks over and over. Oh sure they will try to get you to believe that your case is "special" or somehow "different" from everyone elses but that is them just feeding into your ego to help perpetuate their agenda and manipulation.

And the part above about positive emotions such as Love(heart chakra). You don't send them love because this means you are extending yourself to them, through which they then get into you. The energy is used as a shield and then one raises ones consciousness beyond where they have any affect. It's hard work yes, most people see spirituality as all love and light and easy work, but it's not. It's a lifetimes work. If attaining Enlightenment is so easy how come we're not all Buddhas by now?

Nita has a lot of experience and knowledge in this area and has spent years helping people with neg problems.  Why do you (or Circe) find it so difficult to accept that others may know more about how negs attack people than you do?

I think it needs to be communicated to those suffering from neg attacks that when it is said they need to work on balancing their elements, developing love as a shield, getting rid of emotional hooks, etc. is that we are not making a personal judgment on their spirituality or love for others.  

All of us have imperfections or emotional baggage that can be used against us.  Furthermore, being spiritual and loving does not necessarily mean we are adept at utilizing these things to shield ourselves from neg attacks.  Based on what I have seen thus far, it may very well be the case that negs tend to go after people who are MORE spiritual and balanced, more psychically attuned than the average person.  Not only does it provide them with more energy, but a means of manipulating an individuals talents or qualities to their own advantage and self-evolution. So to those suffering from neg attacks, the fact negs found emotional hooks or chinks in their psychic armor does not mean you were any more flawed than the rest of us.  Indeed, the very opposite might have been the case.

I can well understand why this would be perceived as a judgment though, considering as how in the past on here some fluff bunny miscreants have basically scoffed at the victims, taking up a "Well, you must just not be loving enough or had bad karma, thats why they got in" attitude, or worse yet, assuming that victims of neg attack must be either delusional or lying since according to their belief system, negs cannot possibly exist.  Interestingly enough, I notice that many of these types live a fairly comfortable existence in industrialized countries, and have not had to suffer from the same horrors as the victims.  They seem to think that sitting back from a distance and offering Mcdonalds crap spirituality new age advice is the same as sitting down and listening to someone, and sticking with them in their suffering through thick and thin.  However, I didn't see any of this attitude in Nita's posts.

Those who have suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, or have been raped or abused, need much help and understanding to get them through their pain and ordeal.  However, only the victim themselves can fully make amends with their pain and move on, others can only help so far.  So, as McArthur and Nita mentioned, daily personal effort is an absolute must.  Assistance from others can only help you so far.  It may take years, and there may be many ups and downs, and you will need people to be your friends and listen along the way, but there is a way out.

A person that claims to work more than anyone else, makes no effort to recognize that other people exist or acknowledge their experience, and a person who doesn't even acknowledge the efforts of others but takes the claim of all the effort herself is sounds like they are doing nothing but blaming the victim and exalting themselves.

There is nothing positive reinforcing or loving about statements like that.

Quote from: McArthur
 And if you continue to refuse to take advice from others (which is exactly what the negs want) then no-one can help you. Do you want help or not?

Why would I want "help" from someone who is delusional into thinking that this is some kind of "spiritual test?  If you believe you are simply "being tested", that this experience will make you stronger, wiser, smarter, than you are justifying what they are doing.  You are falling into the trap of simpleton thinking.  A little boy thinking that Dadddy is just trying to make you a stronger man.  Who is Daddy, McArthur? God?

If you do a little research, you will find that bullies--whether they are in third grade, in a corporate setting, or a spouse, generally do what they are doing for one simple reason--because they can.  Asked by a psychologist, one wife beater said that after he did a lot of soul searching, he came up with the simple truth that he punched his wife because he could.  He got away with it.  Would he do it if the result would be public shame, loss of job and income, or jail time?  Nine times out of ten the answer is no.  

So, by your logic, why don't we all have a lawless society then, no cops, no jails, no rules--and let all the bullies, opportunists and sociopaths have their way.  Because, according to your logic, this would make us a better society, we would be working on our "shields" and our imaginary weapons, and toughen up.  

Why do you think civilized society has rules anyway?  To protect the weak, to keep order, to make sure that what people work for their entire lives does not go up in a flash by a criminal with a more creative, ruthless mind than you have.  Why do people get so angry at corruption?  Because it does not strengthen the victims of it, it only makes more powerful the criminals.  Oh, just let him take your life savings, McArthur--then you can learn how to be as creative in theft as he is.  Let a rapist take your young daughter or a murderer your son.  You will learn detachment, and hey--then no one can get to you, you will be tough as nails!

The truth that most would agree with is that, without some laws, some agreements among people about what is wrong and right, then society goes to hell.  Look at any third world country where thugs are in charge to see the hellish result.  

For some reason (religious brainwashing, usually), people like you think that the unseen world is exempt from this kind of accountability--that the chaos, abuse, pain and suffering they cause is somehow justified because it teaches you your weaknesses.  Well of course you have weaknesses!  You are a human being and you do have vulnerabilities.  And because of that, in a lawless society, might makes right.  If a man twice your size decides to level you and there is no one stopping him, he will level you.  And you can go out and build a brick wall around your house and never leave it, or buy a machine gun to protect yourself, or sit home and meditate on "what led you to be pummeled".  You would be wasting your time.  Life is simple, and it's laws of cause and affect apply to all, both the seen and the unseen world.  People are being victimized by bullies in the unseen world because they can, not because some "big Daddy" in the sky is allowing them to in order to make you stronger.  

Whenever I get into a discourse with you, Nita and others with this mindset, I feel like I am talking to children.  

QuoteI know exactly what you are doing. Nothing. And that is because your resident neg wants it that way.

You are one hundred percent wrong.  The reason that I am still alive right now is because I am a fighter.  I have a warrior spirit not a victim mentality.  I have been told that I am known for this--being able to escape when backed into a corner.  I am "wired" that way--but even if I was not, I would not fall into the trap of justifying criminal behavior.  

As long as you continue to believe that what is happening to you is just making you stronger, you will never be free.  The second you wake up and say to yourself, what is happening to victims of psychic warfare is wrong, is the second you begin to own your spirituality.  

I think the first constructive act those of us aware of this problem coud do is to stop calling the bullies "negs".  If instead, you imagined a man doing this to you by dropping a little acid in your coffee, or sending you micorwaves through your house all night long to "test the affect" on human consciousness, you might suddenly decide to do more than "work on yourself".   And then if you saw these same people, not negs, doing it to those you love, like your children, if you have any, it might change the way you view their actions.

This is not about you, McArthur.  It is happening to more people than you know and the sooner you wake up to the fact that this is not a test, you might change your attitude.  

I am not having a problem with "negs" as you describe.  I am dealing with an alien consciousness that has no morals, no spriituality.  They are a technologically sophisticated society without the heart, love and compassion of humanity.  And it is why we are moving forward, not them.

But in moving forward, we do have to unite and make agreements.  One of which I hope would be that psychic violence is not acceptable in any civilized society.

Quote from: kaili

Why would I want "help" from someone who is delusional into thinking that this is some kind of "spiritual test?

I am not claiming what we are going through is a "spiritual test". I suppose you may have got that impression from my philisophical thought earlier in this thread about negs and "heaven".  That's not about being tested but rather the idea that one may find oneself in the company of beings similar in nature and development to ones own. But regarding negs that attack humans it seems to me they somehow find ways to get into the "Real time zone" from the lower Astral and that even those highly evolved spiritually (or sometimes especially those) will come under attack.

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 If you believe you are simply "being tested", that this experience will make you stronger, wiser, smarter, than you are justifying what they are doing.

Like I said, I don't think it's a test. It's more like the laws of the jungle. If one enters a jungle then one had better know how to defend oneself from the wild animals. Either that or get eaten. And of course, there is going to be the occasional lion or tiger that wanders into a nearby human village looking for an easy meal.  But eventually of course those in the village will become wiser and smarter, learning through experience on how to keep the wild animals out. It is not because they are being tested but because it is something they obviously need to learn in order to protect themselves. Either that or get eaten.

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If you do a little research, you will find that bullies--whether they are in third grade, in a corporate setting, or a spouse, generally do what they are doing for one simple reason--because they can.  Asked by a psychologist, one wife beater said that after he did a lot of soul searching, he came up with the simple truth that he punched his wife because he could.  He got away with it.  Would he do it if the result would be public shame, loss of job and income, or jail time?  Nine times out of ten the answer is no.  

I don't understand what this has to do with negs. Are you wishing for some "Higher Power" to come and punish them?

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So, by your logic, why don't we all have a lawless society then, no cops, no jails, no rules--and let all the bullies, opportunists and sociopaths have their way.  Because, according to your logic, this would make us a better society, we would be working on our "shields" and our imaginary weapons, and toughen up.  

That's not what I am saying at all. The Astral already is lawless with no cops or rules as far as I can see. But the thing is that luckily it seems the nastier parts are confined to the lower areas and that the nicer parts don't need rules or cops because of the nature of the beings that inhabit it.  But unfortunately some of those lower astral types (human or otherwise) seem to be finding ways to affect humans on the physical. So, because there are no "Astral Cops", those being attacked by these creatures have two choices. Learn to shield and defend against them or get eaten. Sure, it's not fair we can be manipulated by them, at times life is like that. But complaining about the unfairness (who to?) of being food for predators isn't going to stop them, learning psychic self-defense will.

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Why do you think civilized society has rules anyway?  To protect the weak, to keep order, to make sure that what people work for their entire lives does not go up in a flash by a criminal with a more creative, ruthless mind than you have.

That sounds like a good idea. Perhaps the spiritual realms have something similar where those with criminal and ruthless minds are not able to enter those places with higher and more positive atmospheres. Would you agree with that if it means those in the higher spiritual realms are protected from the negatives and it keeps order?

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Why do people get so angry at corruption?  Because it does not strengthen the victims of it, it only makes more powerful the criminals.

It seems the lower Astral might not be much different to here on the physical then eh?

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 Oh, just let him take your life savings, McArthur--then you can learn how to be as creative in theft as he is.  Let a rapist take your young daughter or a murderer your son.  You will learn detachment, and hey--then no one can get to you, you will be tough as nails!

Actually this is exactly what you are doing. An example: I know there are burglers in my neighborhood so I make all attempts to lock my doors and windows and add an alarm to the house to dissuade them from trying to steal from me (energy work and sheilding etc). You on the other hand seem to be leaving all doors and windows wide open with your valuables displayed openly in the window, no alarm, and a big sign on the house saying "Gone on holiday, back in 2 months" (no energy work or sheilding.)  Yes it would be nice not to have to worry about getting robbed and having to take precautions but unfortunately for people like us it is necessary to lock the doors and install a burgler alarm.

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The truth that most would agree with is that, without some laws, some agreements among people about what is wrong and right, then society goes to hell.  Look at any third world country where thugs are in charge to see the hellish result.  

You're not really expecting negs to follow your rules are you?

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For some reason (religious brainwashing, usually), people like you think that the unseen world is exempt from this kind of accountability--that the chaos, abuse, pain and suffering they cause is somehow justified because it teaches you your weaknesses.

You keep building all these straw men. I'm not saying it's justified or that it is there specifically to show us our weaknesses. But we would be foolish not to learn from the experiences anyway. It is a case of I am having to learn what my weaknesses are in order to counter any attacks through them.  And it seems that Robert Bruce is right when he says there are no "Astral Police" out there arresting perps. So rather than sitting around hoping for the cavalry I'm going to have to learn to defend myself rather than give up without a fight, taking a pill and hoping it will all just go away.

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Well of course you have weaknesses!  You are a human being and you do have vulnerabilities.  And because of that, in a lawless society, might makes right.  If a man twice your size decides to level you and there is no one stopping him, he will level you.

If I lived in a lawless society I would be more inclined to arm myself and learn martial arts.

Quote
 And you can go out and build a brick wall around your house and never leave it, or buy a machine gun to protect yourself, or sit home and meditate on "what led you to be pummeled".  You would be wasting your time.  Life is simple, and it's laws of cause and affect apply to all, both the seen and the unseen world.

To all? Even you? You're opening yourself up there to someone coming along and saying, "Well what might you have done to cause these attacks to happen?" I think this 'cause and effect' belief is a bit too simplistic.

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 People are being victimized by bullies in the unseen world because they can, not because some "big Daddy" in the sky is allowing them to in order to make you stronger.  

I totally agree.

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Whenever I get into a discourse with you, Nita and others with this mindset, I feel like I am talking to children.  

Another straw man.

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You are one hundred percent wrong.  The reason that I am still alive right now is because I am a fighter.  I have a warrior spirit not a victim mentality.  I have been told that I am known for this--being able to escape when backed into a corner.  I am "wired" that way--but even if I was not, I would not fall into the trap of justifying criminal behavior.  

So, er, what are you doing right now to protect yourself from negs?

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As long as you continue to believe that what is happening to you is just making you stronger, you will never be free.  The second you wake up and say to yourself, what is happening to victims of psychic warfare is wrong, is the second you begin to own your spirituality.  

Of course it is wrong, where have I said otherwise?

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I think the first constructive act those of us aware of this problem coud do is to stop calling the bullies "negs".  If instead, you imagined a man doing this to you by dropping a little acid in your coffee, or sending you micorwaves through your house all night long to "test the affect" on human consciousness, you might suddenly decide to do more than "work on yourself".   And then if you saw these same people, not negs, doing it to those you love, like your children, if you have any, it might change the way you view their actions.

Well you can believe that if you wish but I don't go in for all that neg-influenced disinformation.

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I am not having a problem with "negs" as you describe.  I am dealing with an alien consciousness that has no morals, no spriituality.  They are a technologically sophisticated society without the heart, love and compassion of humanity.  And it is why we are moving forward, not them.

Well, then of course if they're not the normal every day kind of neg and what you are experiencing is different to other neg attacks then I guess the psychic self-defenses against the normal kind of negs won't work in your case, right? Do you think there may be a possibilty (however slight) that this is something that "normal" negs would want people to believe?

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But in moving forward, we do have to unite and make agreements.  One of which I hope would be that psychic violence is not acceptable in any civilized society.

Of course it isn't, but who is going to stop them unless people like you and I learn (and use) psychic self-defense techniques?

Anyway, back to Robert Bruce being possessed, how do we know this won't happen again?

QuoteLike I said, I don't think it's a test. It's more like the laws of the jungle. If one enters a jungle then one had better know how to defend oneself from the wild animals.

I did not enter the jungle.  I did not even believe in "negs" how you desribe them.  They came to me.  Huge difference.

If a man stands outside looking up into the sky and begs a UFO to come so he can meet an alien, he sees one and it lands, and he willingly boards the craft, than he has entered the jungle.  If a woman wants to learn astral travel and tries to go OOB and succeeds, then she has entered the jungle.  With me, my awareness of these other worlds occurred because they came to me--not the other way around.  They started coming to me in the night and would not take no for an answer--I called guides, I sent them strong negative energy (mentally directed-"get out, I will not allow you to infringe on my free will"), I imagined astral weapons and used them, I got out of bed every time they came, I told them no--and none of that mattered.  In fact, I kept a journal of both my dreams and the activities.  In retrospect, what happened to me was clearly planned, a planned attack.  Since my methods weren't working I found Robert's book and tried a few things--the garlic, the running water, and I burned sage.  None of those things made any difference.

Finally, I called a women who claimed to be skilled in ridding people of these kinds of things.  She was a woman of faith and called on Arkangel Michael, the Christ, etc.  She told me to repeate certain phrases about cancelling all contracts in all dimensions of time and space, and many other thought provoking words and prayers.  I was impressed with her faith--she was empthatic that she knew what was going on and could help.  The non physical beings treated it all like a big joke.  

QuoteI don't understand what this has to do with negs. Are you wishing for some "Higher Power" to come and punish them?

No.  This will obviously never happen.  What I want is for people to start believing each other, to share stories without the fear of being disbelieved or having someone throw "it's all your fault" back into their face.  If scientists and researchers got involved and treated possessions, ET's, other dimensional contact seriously, HUMANITY might be able to learn how to punish them.  Or at least, protect the innocent.  Not everyone is born to be a warrior, not everyone should have to be in order to live a life free of psychic violence.

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It seems the lower Astral might not be much different to here on the physical then eh?

As above, so below.  Which is why it is OUR responsibility to do something about the criminal activity in the same way we make agreements here.

QuoteYou on the other hand seem to be leaving all doors and windows wide open with your valuables displayed openly in the window, no alarm, and a big sign on the house saying "Gone on holiday, back in 2 months" (no energy work or sheilding.)

You are completely wrong, and why you keep repeating it, is typical of someone who never listens.  I want to be left alone--and I will put whatever defense necessary to achieve that, whether it means fighting or defending.  So don't say it again, McArthur--I have not said one thing in any of my posts for you to assume this lie.  Knock it off.

QuoteIt is a case of I am having to learn what my weaknesses are in order to counter any attacks through them.

What makes you think that it is a weakness within you that allows the attack?  This is typical brain washing.  Example--you can be a black belt karate expert, swordsman, ace with knives, etc, but if I show up with a machine gun, I will blow you to pieces.  Not that you were weak--I just have superior technology.  Think about that before you assume for the thousandth time, that these attacks are about your weaknesses.

Machine guns only work if you have the time and range. If you're grappling, a machine gun is very ineffective and the black belt will slaughter you.

So, they came to you, why? Are you sure it's real and just not nightmares? Why would they pick you, natural talent? Shield.

Quote from: TyciolMachine guns only work if you have the time and range. If you're grappling, a machine gun is very ineffective and the black belt will slaughter you.

So, they came to you, why? Are you sure it's real and just not nightmares? Why would they pick you, natural talent? Shield.

Unfortunately the answers aren't allways this simple. What happens is the case has either a large store of energy to feed on or information that the neg wants. They are targeted for this purpose and thus they become layered in negativity and psychotronic devices.

It's a difficult thing to believe, spirits sound like Schizophrenia to me. *is a tad into psychology*

I agree Tyciol, it does sound like Schizophrenia, but there are differences, however they are hard to detect.  With a mental illness, everything comes from the person and psychic defense shouldn't work, right (unless it acts as a sort of therapy to the person).  When I was fighting off a neg attack, I was questioning my sanity, wondering if I was Schizophrenic, but then upon finding that cleansing my house and setting up psychic barriers around my home helped to get rid of them, I thought that that's not how insanity would work.  I would still think I was being attacked in spite of the psychic defense work, right? I'll admit, one can be confused for the other, and you have a point Tyciol, but my findings are that both neg attacks and mental illness exist and are separate (although one may lead to another).

I'd like to point out to Kaili and anyone else who reads this that our astral bodies exist in the astral at all times(they're just not "separated" and that's not where our consciousness is located, usually).  For instance, I've been able to switch over to astral sight during meditation while remaining in my physical body (it was odd, and I was rather surprised to see what entities were floating around my living space).  Anyway, so my point is that everyone "is in the jungle" because it is part of our existance, we as beings, exist on many planes at once, and the negs get to us by attacking our astral bodies even if our consciousness is located in the physical.

Quote from: TyciolIt's a difficult thing to believe, spirits sound like Schizophrenia to me. *is a tad into psychology*

If the idea of spirits is schizophrenia, why are you hanging out at Robert Bruce's "psychic self defense" threads?  He certainly doesn't believe he's schizophrenic, nor do the majority of people here who have had experiences with the non physical world.

Tyciol--why not hang out where you resonate?  Perhaps you want someone to convince you spirits are real?  Perhaps you are afraid?
For whatever reason you are posting in a thread that clashes with your belief systems, maybe you would be best served finding one that does.

Nobody here will be able to convince you of anything you haven't experienced, nor does anyone want to try.

QuoteI'd like to point out to Kaili and anyone else who reads this that our astral bodies exist in the astral at all times(they're just not "separated" and that's not where our consciousness is located, usually).

Thank you, Einstein.  

Next time I have an experience with a projected hologram, a non physical entity, or energy of unknown origin, I will be sure to consult you.  I know you have all the answers.  I know you will be able to explain and analyze all my experiences, from both a psychological and scientific perspective, because you are just so knowledgeable, and omniscient.

We are so lucky to have you in our midst.

8)

Hi all,
Let me quote McArthur, " My neg trouble is easing precisely because I am now doing energy work, working on shielding, and also accepting help from others. The thing with having the attention from negs is that one can't just get rid of them in one day and everything is then fine. One has to then do the shielding and energy work daily and work on oneself spiritually in order to be able to reach and stay at a place where negs no longer have any effect."

This person is right on the money !   He has worked out for himself that healing and preventing Neg attacks is about working at strengthening your Self.  During the process Mc Arthur will find that he is much more powerful than he previously thought and will also remember the tool for the most effective way of dealing with negs.

This ably illustrates what I have been saying here for the past 18 months or so....  about helping yourself instead of being totally reliant upon others to do it all for you.  Which seems to be the problem with many attackees, who seek assistance but refuse to do anything to actually help them self.

Lastly, there are a small number of people who post in the psychic self-defense section who are extremely arrogant, downright abusive at times, and always appear as if they are suffering through no cause of their own....  and, usually become very agitated when informed that it was themselves who allowed and arranged to experience the attacks they write about here.   How long before these people stop shooting down the real helpers and actually get off their own bums and do something positive for themselves ?

A few months ago I wrote about how I most effectively deal with Attacks in the physical, astral and soul levels.  Some people just threw crap on me and what I was offering them... you know who you are... so there is no need to name names.  Some people are starting to use this advice and finding out for themselves just how powerful a tool it really is.

For example, daem0n has recently been working in realms far beyond anything most of you will ever experience... I know this as fact because I have helped out when the occasion was needed in higher realms than I had opened up to prior to that.

Last night he was attacked by an entity that we could call an ancient god, and since this being was extremely powerful, as a god would be, daem0n used the golden light of the Love vibration to stun and work on the Entity before severing it's cord/connection to the hosts.  Today he is successful  in that confrontation.

When I add this to my own success rate with using this Loving method, anything these detractors can think up is paled into insignificance!  So much for too many OBE's makes Johnny an air head ....thanks K !

So for those of you who seek real help with your problems, I suggest you steer away from those who do nothing for themselves except complain and abuse/attack others because they themselves have no real understanding of their own problem nor their own Self...especially when it is most probably the attackers who are in control of them.

Glad to have gotten that off my chest, LOL


:wink:

I think a large source of the arguements here in the psychic self defense forum is partly due to sometimes not realizing how our posts come across to others.  Also, a differentiation needs to be made between run of the mill neg attacks and attacks which are the equivalent of mental rape.

Tayesin, I'm certain that your are trying to help, and its sounds like the Golden Light method you describe has been succesful.   However, I wish to show how your post might come across to Kaili and others.  I an going to change certain words slightly in order to demonstrate this:

QuoteThis person is right on the money ! He has worked out for himself that healing and preventing mental rape is about working at strengthening your Self. During the process Mc Arthur will find that he is much more powerful than he previously thought and will also remember the tool for the most effective way of dealing with rapists.

This ably illustrates what I have been saying here for the past 18 months or so.... about helping yourself instead of being totally reliant upon others to do it all for you. Which seems to be the problem with many victims of mental rape, who seek assistance but refuse to do anything to actually help them self.

Lastly, there are a small number of rape victims who post in the psychic self-defense section who are extremely arrogant, downright abusive at times, and always appear as if they are suffering through no cause of their own.... and, usually become very agitated when informed that it was themselves who allowed and arranged to experience the mental rape they write about here. How long before these rape victims stop shooting down the real helpers and actually get off their own bums and do something positive for themselves ?

A few months ago I wrote about how I most effectively deal with Attacks in the physical, astral and soul levels. Some rape victims just threw crap on me and what I was offering them... you know who you are... so there is no need to name names. Some people are starting to use this advice and finding out for themselves just how powerful a tool it really is.

For example, daem0n has recently been working in realms far beyond anything most of you will ever experience... I know this as fact because I have helped out when the occasion was needed in higher realms than I had opened up to prior to that.

Last night he was attacked by an entity that we could call an ancient god, and since this being was extremely powerful, as a god would be, daem0n used the golden light of the Love vibration to stun and work on the Entity before severing it's cord/connection to the hosts. Today he is successful in that confrontation.

When I add this to my own success rate with using this Loving method, anything these detractors can think up is paled into insignificance! So much for too many OBE's makes Johnny an air head ....thanks K !

So for those of you who seek real help with your problems, I suggest you steer away from those victims of mental rape who do nothing for themselves except complain and abuse/attack others because they themselves have no real understanding of their own problems nor their own Self...especially when it is most probably the rapists who are in control of them.

Please do not take this as an attack, I simply wish to show you how this post might come across to others.  Also:

QuoteLastly, there are a small number of people who post in the psychic self-defense section who are extremely arrogant, downright abusive at times, and always appear as if they are suffering through no cause of their own.... and, usually become very agitated when informed that it was themselves who allowed and arranged to experience the attacks they write about here.

Many of those who have experienced the worst attacks cannot astral project, or have been spiritually blocked, and as such, have no present means of proving to themselves whether or not this is true.  Do you have another means of providing irrefutable proof that they have indeed choosen/pre-destined every painful detail of their lives beforehand?  If not, then I think using this as a guideline is unfair to the victims.  I feel that even when helping others, it is good to always keep the counter-arguements for our experiences in mind, no matter how much we may have proven it to ourselves.

Also, as I pointed out above, consider for a moment what would be said when trying to help someone who was raped against their will.  Are we REALLY going to tell them that they choose this before birth, and that they thus partly caused it?  Of course not.  Only if they were well on their way to projecting and had healed themselves of their pain would I mention such.

Hiya Bunnies,
Thanks.  I do understand how easily things can be misunderstood, it has been one of the things I learned this year from these discussions.

While I understand your brilliant thoughts on the difference between those who are projectors and those who currently aren't, in relation to understanding the higher implications of their situation, I am still more likely to inform people about the Choice aspect of their every experience.

What I need to find is the way to word it so that those people will not perceive it as me saying they 'deserved it', it is their fault, etc.  Which is unfortunately how it is taken and has been taken in the past.  For some reason people associate Soul Choice with Victimhood and having deserved it..  which of course it does not, it only means that the magnificent Soul they are has chosen to experience this and therefore provide the Source with the experience of themselves having these experiences.

I think it important to the people experiencing attack to know that they have made Soul choices to experience exactly what they are experiencing, because that should indicate to them a path to free themselves from their attacks.  And, to deal effectively with attacks one must find the strength from within themselves, and not from outside sources that can become relied upon, because that way does not help them to be self-empowered.  But this does not mean I am against people receiving outside help, as it is one of the steps towards self-empowerment if the person is then able to let go of the safety rope and walk on their own two feet again.

What needs to change is the concept of "Victim".  The victim mind-set is what keeps attacks happening, because the person has already given their power away to the attacker, and so they see themselves as the victim of these attacks and not as the co-creator of them.

We do not have attacks that are completely one sided, in fact nothing we experience is.  So if people could start to think to themselves, "Okay, since I have helped create this even though I was not aware of it, how then can I change that."    This will be the first self-empowered step these people will take, and from that small point of clarity they will slowly begin to find their own power within themselves.  It is there, inside them, waiting for them to find it and use it to grow out of the attack experience as the Soul they are chose for this life.

Thanks again Bunnies, you put the perspective across to me in a way that has not been so clearly put in the past.

8)

Also what about the Greys?  Often they will capture people astrally and physically without their consent.

Part of this thread discussed positive emotions as a tool of defense.  I hope this isn't being too nitpicky but I've learned that positive emotions is simply a side effect from Love since emotions emanate from the Astral body and Love emanates from the Soul.  As example it's kind of like how tears flow from the physical body.  It's not the physical that originated the emotions.  Rather, the physical tears are simply an end result or side effect.  The reason I mentioned this is because IMHO emotions are to be controlled rather than letting emotions control you.  After all, it is the love from the Soul and Spirit that we are interested in.

Hi,
Well said Paul, very well said.

I tend to think that what we call abductions are also part and parcel of the choices we made for these lives.  The reason for this concept began about 8 years ago when searching out ways to help an old man dying from what appeared to be a stroke, although he never had a stroke.  

In the journey that followed I was speaking with two different groups of 'aliens' who helped me to understand that this human had actually agreed to provide the body to be implanted with a symbiotic-device that would fail so that they could record the results.

Since they had no previous data on such a happening within the human body, they sought out volunteers and were rewarded with this amazing man, who's Soul agreed to provide this for them.

I know it sound totally crazy.  Yet, when we think on a level above that of human awareness, and add the fact that all things really are connected no matter whether we are human incarnates or alien incarnates, it begins to make some sense that we are a part of the larger picture and do play certain roles for the betterment of others/ourselves.

:D

It's true, putting up little barriers and charms normally doesn't do away with insanity... but the fact that you knew about them decreases their credibility. If someone else put them up, you didn't know, and yet suddenly started acting normally, then a psychological fixation on ritual mythology wouldn't be an explanation, which is one possible thing I think with the occult.

kaili
you entered the jungle out of your own will (remember? i do)
enter your soul (soul is not high self) through the crown, white tube of light if you prefer
then gather info, you will know what to do
this will work, even if you tried it before and failed

Tay

don't give explanations, give the means, explanations later
closing access points (working on mental and emotional body), being equivalent of brick wall, is valid, and easy to accept
the fact that the rapist is your friend from another lifetime who agreed to help you experience this is not easy to accept (this is example)
(nor is thinking above human awareness, especially when you haven't experienced it, to each, his own)

Quote from: daem0nkaili
you entered the jungle out of your own will (remember? i do)
enter your soul (soul is not high self) through the crown, white tube of light if you prefer
then gather info, you will know what to do
this will work, even if you tried it before and failed

I am curious how you can say your soul is not your higher self when the soul is the entirety of your being?

i wanted to make a distinction for a few reasons that i cannot share without consent of the participant
soul is not the form, nor it is entirety of my being
higher self is soul-like, but not of soul, it is higher part of the form
by form i mean physical body along with subtle bodies and other

Tayesin, you said:

QuoteI tend to think that what we call abductions are also part and parcel of the choices we made for these lives. The reason for this concept began about 8 years ago when searching out ways to help an old man dying from what appeared to be a stroke, although he never had a stroke.

In the journey that followed I was speaking with two different groups of 'aliens' who helped me to understand that this human had actually agreed to provide the body to be implanted with a symbiotic-device that would fail so that they could record the results.

Since they had no previous data on such a happening within the human body, they sought out volunteers and were rewarded with this amazing man, who's Soul agreed to provide this for them.

I know it sound totally crazy. Yet, when we think on a level above that of human awareness, and add the fact that all things really are connected no matter whether we are human incarnates or alien incarnates, it begins to make some sense that we are a part of the larger picture and do play certain roles for the betterment of others/ourselves.

Number one: the greys are not spiritually superior to humanity--we are spiritually superior to them.  They just have better technology.

In America, consider the Sioux Nation---when the elders knew the white man would come, and keep coming, and their life as they knew it would change forever, they did not make the assumption that this would happen because it was "God's will" or their "soul's will" or that the white man was spiritually superior.  They accepted the truth with the tears and tragedy it deserved--and their eyes wide open.

The others, the false prophets (which many here at this webboard would have been in good company), claimed that the Indians had special powers and that the white man's bullets would go right through them...which of course, turned out to be untrue.  The Indians were defeated, they were sent away to live in reservations because in this 3D world MIGHT MAKES RIGHT.  

Well, guess what?  As above, so below.  

In the absence of facts, you turn to Spirit.  Only Spirit isn't what you think.  When you wake up, and you realize just who these beings are, you are going to cry.  The truth when looked at with open eyes, is not always neat and pretty and is often tragic.  Life lesson 101.

I find it ironic that the true warriors of humanity will not be any of you, any of the so called Lightworkers, or New Age Shamans.  They will be the common man and woman who think the idea of giving their power away to aliens is ludicrous.  The average person on the street would think the idea that the person who believes that someone "gave  permission for this alien experiement" in order to learn some lesson, only it was an unconscious one", is the person with the victim mentality--not the one that says "unless you get my conscious free will permission, you don't have it, period".  Those will be the empowered humans, the awake humans-- the free humans.

We are all making a choice right now.  Consider carefully what you are choosing.

Those of you who think it's okay to let aliens experiement on you because unbeknownst to you, your soul gave your permission (come ON!!), will be the ones who find that they were the ones who gave their power away.

Paul made a good point (though he would hate me saying it), when he talked about the tears being the voice of the soul.  They are.  And they cry for good reason.  Why cry if this is what the soul wants?

That's all I've got to say.

Quote from: daem0ni wanted to make a distinction for a few reasons that i cannot share without consent of the participant
soul is not the form, nor it is entirety of my being
higher self is soul-like, but not of soul, it is higher part of the form
by form i mean physical body along with subtle bodies and other

By it's very definition, the soul is the entirety of your being. Are you thinking of Spirit?

HI Kaili,
Which group of Grays are you referring to ?  One group/genetic line are very aware of their own spirituality.

I disagree with the perception of life often being tragic, perhaps it is so for those who cannot see beyond their physical nature and who also tend to make such value judgments.

You said, "I find it ironic that the true warriors of humanity will not be any of you, any of the so called Lightworkers, or New Age Shamans. They will be the common man and woman who think the idea of giving their power away to aliens is ludicrous. The average person on the street would think the idea that the person who believes that someone "gave permission for this alien experiement" in order to learn some lesson, only it was an unconscious one", is the person with the victim mentality--not the one that says "unless you get my conscious free will permission, you don't have it, period". Those will be the empowered humans, the awake humans-- the free humans. "

What is missing from this perception Kaili is those who choose to not give their power away will most likely be the ones who have some real understanding of what is occurring at the time and why.

Just because we can understand the higher awareness contracts we made for this life, does not in any way imply that we have given away our free will to make choices in the physical.  

You said, "Those of you who think it's okay to let aliens experiement on you because unbeknownst to you, your soul gave your permission (come ON!!), will be the ones who find that they were the ones who gave their power away. "

Those of us who knowingly allow what you call experimentation are the ones who ARE empowered, because we have made the choice knowingly as a Soul and as a Human, mainly because we are acutely aware of the connections and services we are providing.  And, we carry no human-based Fear about Aliens, etc.

And, as far as "unbeknownst to you", everyone can very easily get into their higher level awareness to remember what contracts they have made.    The only barrier or impediment to doing so is what people believe about it in the first place.  So instead of always heaping crap on the concept, how about you actually go and do it for Your-Self.

:)

Quote from: daem0ni wanted to make a distinction for a few reasons that i cannot share without consent of the participant
soul is not the form, nor it is entirety of my being
higher self is soul-like, but not of soul, it is higher part of the form
by form i mean physical body along with subtle bodies and other

Perhaps you're using your own personal definitions.  The definition of Soul is the Higher Self.  Remember, beyond the Higher Self is the Divine Self.  Soul is Higher Self.  Spirit is Divine Self.  By Spirit I mean that spark of divinity within the Soul.

There is a dividing line between material and spirit.  The concrete mind, astral, etheric, and physical is in the material world.  The Soul is in the spirit world.  The Soul is not of form nor is it the higher form of the physical.

No offense but I'm curious where you're getting your information.  Is it information from personal experiences?  I would caution that unless you're bodies are completely developed and you are an Adept.  Don't get me wrong.  Experience is great and advisable.  But formulating truth of reality of the higher planes and especially spirit is like a fish trying figure out how a computer works.  The information you seek is already available from previous Adepts.  ;-)

yes i use different definitions, i think that i really should at last shut up
the informations are from or accepted by higher parts of me, backed up by experience, and i finally understood that for personal use
feel free to explain it your way

Quote from: daem0nyes i use different definitions, i think that i really should at last shut up
the informations are from or accepted by higher parts of me, backed up by experience, and i finally understood that for personal use
feel free to explain it your way

It is difficult to communicate with words when terminoligies do not match unfortunately.

Quote from: Tayesin

I disagree with the perception of life often being tragic

Your words, not mine.  I never said "life is often tragic".  I made the point that when tragedy occurs, a wise person acknowledges it--doesn't try to bury it, justif it or in some way condone it.  

QuoteWhat is missing from this perception Kaili is those who choose to not give their power away will most likely be the ones who have some real understanding of what is occurring at the time and why.

You are talking about me.  I chose not to participate--they asked (a little late in the process) and I said no--on all levels was this so.  I said "no" on every level of my Being and they went ahead with it anyway.  

QuoteThose of us who knowingly allow what you call experimentation are the ones who ARE empowered, because we have made the choice knowingly as a Soul and as a Human, mainly because we are acutely aware of the connections and services we are providing.  And, we carry no human-based Fear about Aliens, etc.

I do not fear aliens, not even those who are experimenting with me.  I don't respect them.  

You keep on working with them.  It is your choice.  You are One with them now anyway. It was your choice.  

I wonder, if they start experimenting on your children, if they decided to rape your daughter in the interest of "Gee, I wonder what would happen, we've never done this to a human before", if they start experimenting with her brain, and she suffers greatly, will you so easily surrender her?  Or will you simply disbelieve her?  

If she came to you and told you, that she feels in the pit of her soul what is happening to her is wrong and against her will, would you believe her conviction that what is happening is going against her will?  Or would you tell her "I'm sorry Dear, if the maginficent aliens are experimenting on you, despite your suffering, I must condone it---it means you on some level of your being have allowed this."

Rhetorical questions--I already know the answer.

QuoteSo instead of always heaping crap on the concept, how about you actually go and do it for Your-Self.

I have.  The answer was no, is still no.  They know this.  I am not in alliance with them, nor will I ever be.  There are multiple paths when we leave this dimension and you have chosen yours.  I have chosen differently.

To each his own.

DaemOn tell me you are quite skilled in the astral.  I don't have argument with your abilities.  The reason you and I clash when I don't with Spectral Dragon, is because he at least said to me once "I don't know why.  And my guide doesn't either."  That suggests to me he has wisdom.  You do not have the ability to see beyond your own reality even though you know all of it is projection, both yours and theirs.  If you were truly wise, you would be able to admit you don't know everything.  That someone may come here and post something that goes against your experience and beliefs but is nontheless, true.

But then you are such a good spokesperson for them, Tayesin.  No wonder you only see certain things.

We agree on Heart Chakra energy being able to affect negs but not the rest Tayesin.

Quote from: Tayesin
In the journey that followed I was speaking with two different groups of 'aliens' who helped me to understand that this human had actually agreed to provide the body to be implanted with a symbiotic-device that would fail so that they could record the results.

Since they had no previous data on such a happening within the human body, they sought out volunteers and were rewarded with this amazing man, who's Soul agreed to provide this for them.

I know it sound totally crazy.

Yes it does. They were lying IMNSHO. The "grey aliens" sound a lot like these evil symbiotic things that Robert Bruce describes in this story where they made the often used claim that they were the childs 'spirit guides' that Robert was trying to help. Luckily Robert is a bit wiser than that and knows through experience that this is an often used ploy by negs. Read it and find out what they were really like:

http://hem.passagen.se/witchy/Dai/upplrobknights.htm

Quote from: Tayesin
two different groups of 'aliens' who helped me to understand that this human had actually agreed to provide the body to be implanted with a symbiotic-device

Dear Tayesin,

That may be the case, but the greys inflict great pain.  That is not of the light.  Deep down you know who they are.

Where did I say it was the Greys ?  Can anyone of you show me in my post where I said it was the Greys ?  No you can't !

So stop jumping to conclusions !

Kaili,
"I don't know", would be a Lie if I do know and can find the words to say it.  No one is required to diminish themselves to make others feel comfortable.

We should not be jumping to conclusions about what is being said about whom... for example, if I wanted to say something about you, I would say 'You' or 'Kaili'.  With the exception of one refference using the letter 'K'.....  If those words do not appear there, do not jump to a conclusion that I am doing the opposite.  

About the child question Kaili, at 2 years old my girl spoke with me about her nightly visits by the little men.  She was able to comprehend what was the higher reality and what choices she can make about it now.  She is now 10, fairly well self-empowered and has not had a painful visit since the talk with her back then.

Just because something didn't work effectively for you is no reason to heap crap on it when you see it offered to others who it may work well for.


Paul,
There has been a misunderstanding here, I didn't say it was the Greys.
:?

Generally,
Can someone tell me what makes a painful examination by an Alien race ANY different than what We do to the animals on this planet ?  And can they do so without a perception tainted by Human value judgements please ?

Why is there a perception difference because one suits us and the other doesn't ?

The mentor is correct, still too many small minded thinkings

Bye

Quote from: TayesinI have enough of this.......

Dear Tayesin,
The problem only arises when one includes emotions.  Please do not take any of my words offensively.  I do attach emotions to my words.  I apologize if I offended you.

Quote from: TayesinPaul,
You do not know who I was talking about so you have no concept of exactly what races I was discussing with...
Let me state for everyone to see ...
I did not say it was the Greys !  And, not all lines of Greys do what you people are claiming.  This indicates to me that you do not have the experience to know any differently.  No Experience equals no Basis for argument !

That's fine Tayesin but *I* did not directly say you were referring to the greys.  It did not matter to me if you were referring to the greys.  I wanted to make *my* point.  As stated, the greys inflict pain.  That is not of the light.

Quote from: TayesinPS.... The Mentor is right, too many minds still thinking small.

Relatively speaking.  Indeed our minds think small compared to Buddha or Christ.

Hi Paul,
I had just posted that one, then thought better of it and was editing it when you posted your reply.

Tay

PS the "I've enough" quote was not written in the reply to you, it was a generalized sigh at the conclusion reached by some of you.  SO, in that respect your words had no offence meant or taken with them.

QuoteAnd, not all lines of Greys do what you people are claiming. This indicates to me that you do not have the experience to know any differently. No Experience equals no Basis for argument !

I have seen four different races of greys that felt familiar to me and appeared friendly.  They varied as much as the human races do in appearance.  

I have had projected to me a grey humanoid with multi-colored skin, large spots.  He had what I call Christ consciousness eyes.  His people of one mind, the hive mentality.  I asked "Did they suffer on their way to evolving, as many humans who are Christians believe is necessary for their salvation?"

The answer was surprising.  The answer was "No." and the pause afterward said more than needs to be said.  Suffering is not necessary.  It is the myth, the lie, sold to many by ET's pretending to be the Creator which they are not.  Genetic engineers perhaps.  But they are no more Gods than we are...or perhaps I should say we are as much Gods as they are.  

The most personal experience with a gray was of one with the typical appearance only glowing white in much the same way that a fifth dimension Being does.  I woke up talking to him and he felt benevolent.  But I did not like him suddenly appearing in my room.

The greys are not the only ones doing experiments. That is true.  But it is a lie that people are volunteering for this.  Or at least, I can say with full confidence, that I did not volunteer for this.  I find it interesting that you would believe an alien consciousness via projection over the words of a human being who is the recipient of experimentation.  

The Beings doing the experiments nearly always tell the victims that they are somehow special, and that is why they were chosen for this.  And if you reply (as I did) that you don't care, you still aren't interested, than they can get quite angry and come back with "others would be honored to have our attention".  And if you come back with "so go to those others" as I did, they get even angrier.  Quite nasty, as in Robert Bruce's experience.  His experience and mine paralles in some interesting ways.  It is nice to finally get confirmation on some of the things I've seen and experienced (thanks to PM for link to article).

Tayesin--you are brain washed and have been for a very long time.  This happens a lot to people who are wounded or cut off from other people too much.  They are often targeted for that reason alone as being in the company of loving, supportive friends and family serves as a good buffer to these kinds of infringements.  I am speaking from experience, not judgement.  

But the difference between you and me is that I know whan I am being decieved.  I was told that they could not project their illusion on me because of my Higher Mind--they tried seven or eight times to do something and were not successful.  They began a new attack after that, one that involved a very different kind of projection, much more invasive and violent.  The kind that Robert Bruce experienced where you feel it as real as this reality.  And the affects stay with this reality.  This kind of projection requires a technology that as far as I know, only the greys possess.  There are Beings of a more integrated (Higher) nature that can stop these crimes against humanity, that can stop the projections--but they are concerned about the overall evolution of earth and humanity as a whole, and to intervene they consider an infringement on our free will.  

At this point, I would say you cannot see the forest through the trees.  You will, one day.

DaemOn--I told you this in a PM, but I thought it might be good to post here too...

Yes, I did of my own volition enter the jungle when the yearning to know my Total Self was too great to ignore, and my abilities to project or OBE into conscious contact were not succeeding.  I had limited contact of a "gut feeling" nature, but not the instant "phase out" relationship that Robert Monroe had with his Total Self near the end days of his life.  And as you know, I got hijacked on the way to wanting this connection.  This hijacking was not planned by my Total Self, in fact, it warned me in dreams and via gut feelings to "not allow curiosity, or even a great yearning, to kill the cat".  

I admire your ability to simply state your truth and leave.  For some reason, perhaps because I am new here, me stating my truth, stirs up a lot of controversy.   But then, I am used to being a lightening rod.   :?

Hi Kaili,
Thank you for sharing your experiences.

How is it that your experiences are to be judged differently to mine ?

You say I am brain-washed...  who is to say it is not you who are ?

Your experience versus mine, that is all it is.

Your's is real to you, as is mine.

So why are we arguing the point ?  Still ?

Tay

pml
please leave dogma

Tay
could you possibly take into account other side of the experience
this way you have two incomplete halves, that do not communicate
(kaili, this is also your case)
unless you want to disagree for another 2 pages
also if you would be careful with choosing your words, they diminish your point

any entity that doesn't treat you as equal and honor your form and truth, regardless of your level of awareness, is "false" and lost, the same with people

kaili
no (or too much) struggle, no evolution
command your dream, they have no right, you have the keys
intend (will) to retrieve all power of non-physical back to physical, to your form, they were never allowed to weave our dream

Quote from: daem0npml
please leave dogma

Dear demon,

Why?  Usually those are the worlds of the beast within.  The east has referred to it as one's self demons.  Would you have people believe in nothing but the illusionary experiences created by an undeveloped astral / desire body?  That leaves to self illusion.  I respect the selfless work done by 1000's of liberated ones before me.  I will not ignore it.  Yes I would agree that many of the works have been destroyed by humanity.  The Bible in its current state of 66 books is such a work.  Presently only the higher & divine self can correctly interpret the Bible.  Although I do not get my information from the Bible.

Dogma is an interesting word isn't it ?  

Dogma :- beliefs, to be accepted as true without question.

Dogmatic :- Giving of opinions as if they were dogma, especially in an arrogant way.

(Oxford Student Dictionary)

It's really a mirror !!



:P

Quote from: TayesinDogma is an interesting word isn't it ?  

Dogma :- beliefs, to be accepted as true without question.

Dogmatic :- Giving of opinions as if they were dogma, especially in an arrogant way.

(Oxford Student Dictionary)

It's really a mirror !!



:P

Dear Tayesin,

Did you truly quote for us the entire Oxford Student Dictionary definitions?  *If* not, then you might want to ask yourself why you do these things.

Here's the entire definitions list from the American Heritage Dictionary:
1.   A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
2.   An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. See Synonyms at doctrine.
3.   A principle or belief or a group of them: "The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present" (Abraham Lincoln).
The 3rd "A principle or belief or a group of them" is a principle of belief.  It is called truth seeking.

Hi Paul,
It's such an interesting topic, that of Dogma.  

I posted it because daem0n has a valid point, and those who are stuck in Dogma do not see it for what it is.

As an aside Paul, since I've been posting at AP, I've noticed that there is a perceptional difference between Americans and most other people.  This makes for a whole lot of misunderstanding in communications and what is actually meant by people.

Point in question, the differences between the meaning presented by your US produced dictionary and the Oxford which has been a standard for English speaking countries for so very long.   We are using the English language.

So the meanings I posted are different in perception to the one's you posted.

Yours is posted to intend "Authority", and so support your Opinions to readers as having to be the 'correct' ones.

Whereas, the meanings I posted show it to be a case of what it really is...

And here I will leave this.

Good luck.

Quote from: TayesinIt's such an interesting topic, that of Dogma.

Yes, there is no single definition.  Again, could you please quote all of the definitions from the Oxford dictionary?  There is usually more than one definition.  I found three definitions in the American Heritage Dictionary.  Thanks.

Quote from: TayesinI posted it because daem0n has a valid point, and those who are stuck in Dogma do not see it for what it is.

What do you consider dogma?  If someone believes in the teachings of say Christ, then you consider that person stuck on dogma?  No offense, but often you make statements about people and seem to enjoy making personal statements without any evidence.

Quote from: TayesinAs an aside Paul, since I've been posting at AP, I've noticed that there is a perceptional difference between Americans and most other people.

Yes, Americans find it interesting that people of other countries enjoy picking at us.  It's OK, we understand.  Some people believe in Karma and some believe in luck.  Perhaps our country, America, just got lucky, or perhaps we did something good.  You reap what you sew.

Quote from: TayesinYours is posted to intend "Authority", and so support your Opinions to readers as having to be the 'correct' ones.  Whereas, the meanings I posted show it to be a case of what it really is...

No comment.  You desire personal statements toward others way too much for my taste.  Most of our discussions usually lead to personal things.  Yet I ask you time after time to leave personal statements out of the discussion.

Again Tayesin, I use the 3rd definition of dogma, "A principle or belief or a group of them."  I do not follow any authority of the church as stated by some definitions of dogma.  Although I have no issue with authority.  The authority I follow is of the Christ.  Christ is not a fictitious person.  This being is at present the highest developed being of the Archangel kingdom.


On the topic of this thread, possession ... can anyone see cloaked beings?  I find it interesting and still to date cannot understand why the fallen angelic kingdom has an issue with authority.  Yet again, there seems to be disagreement with sides as to who are the fallen angels.  As stated in the Bible, one third of the angels fell.  A few years ago I heard a fallen angel that was cloaked as an ascended master say that two thirds of the angels fell.  Notice this master said "Two thirds" which is the opposite of what the Bible says.

LOL I needed reminding again.

I had forgotten the last lesson in the hustle and bustle of recent weeks.

Thanks
8)

Be well.

Quote from: pmlonlineAgain, could you please quote all of the definitions from the Oxford dictionary?  There is usually more than one definition.  I found three definitions in the American Heritage Dictionary.  Thanks.

QuoteOn the topic of this thread, possession ... can anyone see cloaked beings?

I had an image of one projected to me once--he looked like the grim reaper.  Only it was more of a cartoon grim reaper (anyone who has played the "Sims" has seen the exact image I saw).  Maybe it was supposed to scare me but I burst out laughing.  Perhaps these Cloaked Beings are where the story of the grim reaper comes.

QuoteYet again, there seems to be disagreement with sides as to who are the fallen angels. As stated in the Bible, one third of the angels fell. A few years ago I heard a fallen angel that was cloaked as an ascended master say that two thirds of the angels fell.

That should have been your first clue..."cloaked as an ascended master".  :wink: I wouldn't trust any cloaked Being.

I've noticed that whenver a face was shadowed, or I couldn't see a Beings eyes, I could not trust them.  Either because they weren't who they were pretending to be (Spirit can assume any form), or because it was a hologram.  That has been consistent in my experience.  No eyes, no face, no trust.  And if you do see the eyes, and they are very dark, black, like emptiness, I couldn't trust them either.  These are souless Beings.

I have seen other Beings who have both the light and the dark, like us--Mixed Beings.  I call them Divine eyes, because at first you are awed, overwhelmed by the unworldly love and compassion that they can emanate.  And then you see the shadow behind the eyes.   I have never seen or experienced a pure light being in the astral, and because of my experiences, I believe that these beigns are ALL projections.  All souled beings would be Mixed Beings, unless they discarded all their souled experience of life.  

My three or four cents.

Quote from: kailiThat should have been your first clue..."cloaked as an ascended master".  :wink: I wouldn't trust any cloaked Being.

Lol, no, I don't mean cloaked as in a cape.  Rather, cloaked as in hiding their true identity.  May be it's that darn American Heritage dictionary.  What I mean is that a lot of fallen angels have the ability to appear as something else such as an ascended master or alien, etc.  Since they're one kingdom ahead of us, at least in experience, they are far more powerful and can deceive OBE / projectors into appearing as they wish.  Although they cannot deceive one whose bodies are developed.

Quote from: MacArthur

Quote from: LogicWow. What happens to all the people who can't deal with possession?

Suicide, Prison or Insane Asylums.

There are alternatives, medications, counseling and a willingness to go to therapy can and does stop some possession cases. But not all, some daemons can really overwhelm a person's will and hospitalization does become the option of choice.

I've had some very scary experiences in my lifetime, once with a devil that just would not go away, i found myself hitting myself constantly, nearly walking out onto the highway and nearly committing suicide. The devil in me took quite a while to banish with both holistic healing and conventional medicine.  I can still remember the daemon saying to me " i am not that easy to banish" well devil, you are at least contained within me if not banished. I have not had any symptoms for 9 months since the neg attack.

-Phoenix

-Phoenix006

Hi Phoenix

What meds do you take, and how long have you taken them?  Do you still take them?  What kind of therapy, and how long?

I take very small doses of clonapin, a sleep aid, anti-anxiety, anti-seizure medicine and this helps tremendously.  Without it I am dealing with a hyper brain, that becomes hyper through constant projections, both asleep and awake.  And of course, the anxiety, restlenssness that would accompany this kind of activity.  It doesn't stop it completely, however.

I find it interesting, that I was encouraged to fall apart by the negs, to be hospitalized, given therapy, take drugs, etc.  My intuition told me this was not the thing to do--and it was so overwhelmingly against this, that I had no doubt that's the path I would take.  Although I did go to both a psychiatrist and a therapist several times, if only to assure myself that I was sane, that it was not only a chemical imabalance.  Once given this confirmation, I have not second guessed my gut instincts anymore.  

If you are a person of faith, it would be very easy to assume this was all meant to happen so that you would go on these meds that you need and get the therapy that you might benefit from.  However, if you are NOT a person of faith such as myself (did not grow up with the thought that God/Jesus/Mohammed, Mothman, whoever, knows best), then it becomes easy to see that if meds and therapy were the goal, then much kinder, saner, compassionate alternatives could have gotten you there.  

But I agree, that some cases of possession could be chemical imbalances that can be helped through meds.  I am sure you know however, that there are different causes of possession.  

Thanks for sharing your experience, just wanted more details.

QuoteI've noticed that whenver a face was shadowed, or I couldn't see a Beings eyes, I could not trust them. Either because they weren't who they were pretending to be (Spirit can assume any form), or because it was a hologram. That has been consistent in my experience. No eyes, no face, no trust. And if you do see the eyes, and they are very dark, black, like emptiness, I couldn't trust them either. These are souless Beings.

I always say that it's far better to trust what you feel coming from them rather than what you can or cannot see. Appearances can be deceptive. That's why I never trust what I see, especially when it comes to all kinds of spiritual matters.