The attraction of the left hand path

[boydster]

Well stated.

I don't believe that anyone ever attained lasting, true happiness by turning towards serving himself, which is the hallmark of the left-handed path. And the idea of utilizing darkness to do good works is fairly laughable. If you wallow in darkness it's going to stick to you like glue.

I appreciate your comment about "calling down force from the sphere above" as opposed to tapping the Kundalini force. It's generally known within occult circles that a soul who walks the left-handed path eventually severs the connection altogether with the sphere above via selfish, harmful activities. This is the state of those vampire types who subsist entirely upon light/energy which they steal from others, having divorced themselves from the True Source.

"Let us do evil, that good might appear" is a classic mantra of these darkened souls.

[Moonburn33]

maybe severing from "the source" is what the source had in mind for its reflections?


i follow the left-hand path because i felt like something was missing when i did otherwise.  I am a very happy person because of this.  it's not about being petty- it's about knowing what you want and realizing that the key to happiness is following your true desires.

[no_leaf_clover]

A while back, when I was playing around with Christianity and starting to explore religious/spiritual ideas, I for whatever reason started reading up on these kinds of things out of curiousity. I never had the intention to harm anybody or go into anything drastic like vampirism but this 'darker side' did have some attractive sounding aspects, ie astral projection, which I hadn't been exposed to before and the idea excited me based on what these occult sites said about it. Eventually I found this site which shed a lot more scientific light on the subject (though sort of taking the fun out of it too []). If I hadn't found this site, I might still be going by those other pages, though (but maybe I would've AP'ed by now too). For me those things were a sort of stepping stone towards information like what Robert Bruce and, further, these forums provide. Can't explain the guys that actually go out trying to harm people though. They must have some kind of psychological problems going on along the way.

[boydster]

quote:Originally posted by Moonburn33

maybe severing from "the source" is what the source had in mind for its reflections?


i follow the left-hand path because i felt like something was missing when i did otherwise.  I am a very happy person because of this.  it's not about being petty- it's about knowing what you want and realizing that the key to happiness is following your true desires.

Hi Moonburn,

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same "left handed path". For instance, would you purposly do harm to others for personal gain? Would you do spells against people to try to kill them because they offended you or ticked you off? Would you manipulate and destroy others lives in order to gain for youself financial or sexual domination? Would you consort with demons or other spiritual black holes in order to have a chance at "changing your luck"? This type of thing is what I'm referring to when I talk about ultimate selfishness.

I don't think most people would consider "following your heart" to be the same as the "left handed path".

Regarding, "maybe severing from "the source" is what the source had in mind for its reflections?"---from an occult standpoint, the source IS YOU, as in your higher self, which is equal to and one with the higher self of every other soul. Choosing to be severed from the Source is to identify completely with a wholly temporal and artificial lower creation which we experience when we come down here to incarnate in a body.

Your soul is just a small portion of what YOU really are. When a soul does this divorce thing, the soul is cutting himself off from the source of life (his higher self) and is eventually lost. Yes, souls can be lost. They become so dark that the only recourse is to "recycle" the energy, kind of like erasing a tape. There is a spiritual hierarchy who is in charge of such things.

[Mathias Jonsson]

I'd say "know thy shades, but do not let them swallow you".
We all have to know about our dark sides, what Jung called "The Shadow", and to explore the unknown may have a value.
But to devote oneself entirely to the Qlipphotic Tree to me sounds as if one would easily get lost spritually, without the guiding light of the higher self.

Also what many left-hand path workers do is calling demons beneficial and misunderstood. That to me is sugar-coating potential dangers.
These are great powers that want to turn all spirtual balance over.
They may appear as beneficial so as to be able to get a connection on the etheric plane.

Also there are many who when venturing into magic think it is much more cool to try and call up Lovecraftian entities than "ordinary planetary spirits". Well, let's see how cool it is to later be possessed by a demon and be locked up in an institution as a rambling psychotic.
I'd like to quote the great occultist W.E. Butler, the founder of S.O.L.:
"Never, ever overestimate your occult powers!"
Butler in one of his books also likened the channeling of dark forces as channeling sewer water, it is impossible not to be tainted by that dark energy.

[Mick]

quote:Originally posted by Mathias Jonsson


"Never, ever overestimate your occult powers!"
Butler in one of his books also likened the channeling of dark forces as channeling sewer water, it is impossible not to be tainted by that dark energy.

Very much agree with this statement, we have picked up on those that do this as part of their scheme to be special and there is a growing sense of corruption about them and their activities.
Their choice I guess.

[Moonburn33]

i understand where you are coming from, boydster- however:

I do not believe any of the acts that you listed to be symptomatic of a spiritually divorced personality in and of themselves.  At the risk of getting slightly off topic, I will say that I believe moralistic DETAILS to be entirely subjective- in that one person may be serving their Greater Personality by carrying out one or more of the acts you listed.

It's a complicated issue and do not think that your explanation was lost on me- I completely comprehend and agree with the spirit of your post.

[Rastus]

Ahhhhh!

But it's not all about just you.  It's about why you chose to incarnate in the first place.  If the reason is to only enrich yourself, then you missed the point entirely.  Enriching yourself is the payback for other work.

Serving your greater good or severing your greater good?

[Moonburn33]

"But it's not all about just you. It's about why you chose to incarnate in the first place. If the reason is to only enrich yourself, then you missed the point entirely. Enriching yourself is the payback for other work."
---------------------------------------------

rastus- could you give your rationale for this.

[boydster]

I'd like to hear Rastus' answer, but to me it sounds like he's saying that the greatest reward comes to those who serve others (aka: serve their own higher self by serving/helping the lower self [souls] of others--under the premise that we are all one vast, extended lifestream).

The true occult adepts down through the ages have always advised to forget yourself and do your duty to the Maker/Source via service to His souls evolving here in these planes of consciousness.

Rastus?

[boydster]

quote:Originally posted by Moonburn33

i follow the left-hand path because i felt like something was missing when i did otherwise.  I am a very happy person because of this.  it's not about being petty- it's about knowing what you want and realizing that the key to happiness is following your true desires.

Here is another spin on this. I believe that what we call desires come from a variety of sources. Some of these are due to promises or vows we made before taking incarnation, in the attempt to make evolutionary progress. Some are the desiring of our higher self, filtering down the stairway of consiousness into our dreams or our waking desires and emotions. Other desires (many....) are the result of the animal nature of these bodies that we inhabit. Still other desires are the result of influences from without--both good and bad, such as due to tramp discarnates who still harbor cravings due to obsessions or addictions during life. Or you could be inspired by your spirit guide, etc.

My point is that with all these influences happening, it takes a lot of discrimination to get through these lives we live without making a bunch of karma each time we touch down; probably more discrimination than 99% of us have. That's why it takes study, reflection and attuning to your higher self in order to find a rough set of rules to help us live by until we have the working, conscious discrimination of an adept.

We've all done this to some degree or another. And my only comment further is that everything I've ever encountered from my personal search leads me to believe that what people call the "left handed path" if followed to it's conclusion, leads to the failure of the mission of that soul, ultimate unhappiness and even the "erasing" of that unique identity.

"Whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it".

This is a very deep occult law.

[Rastus]

The eternal question is usually "why am I here?"

You are not here to enrich yourself.  That's a side affect, a by product of the work your trying to do.  If you were here for just yourself (the left hand path), then in fact you give nothing back.  You are a leech, a taker in a complex world of interwoven energies and entities.  You care nothing for these entities, having admitted you would do whatever you wanted to enrich yourself.  Okay, your greater personality is directing all this.  But how do you truly know that's who your serving and your not deluding your current incarnation?  You say your higher self, but does your higher self want self-enrichment at the expense of other entities?

Souls can be lost, its quite tragic but it can happen.  You felt something was missing until you went down the left hand path?  It sounds like your Ego is more in control than your higher self?  Was it the feeling of power you liked?  What about the left hand path make syou feel differently than being a lightworker?  Now your happy?  Physcially happy you mean?  Satisfied in the flesh (that includes the Ego, since it's an aspect of flesh).  Perhaps your Ego is satisfied because your connection to your higherself is weaker.

Now your standard lightworker would shower you with love and light.  But they have to contend with the dark forces that ahve surrounded you.  In the current times the light is very bright and the darker forces are scrambling for their 'defenders'  I would imagine they would invest a lot of effort to keep what they have or get more dark workers.  Why?  After the changes, the old ways won't apply?  New rules?

Now your nonstandard lightworker may have other ideas, beware the Grays...

[Moonburn33]

ok, let me explain my position better:

I do not believe in divinity or a Higher self.  I do not believe that there is such a thing as UNselfishness.  I do not believe in a higher power, however- I do believe in Powers.  I also do not believe in concepts like ego and lower selves.  In my conceptual world, there is only one complete entity with conflicting ideas.  I DO believe in a Greater self, however- being the hidden/latent parts of ourselves.  In my opinion, they are without color- and only represent the Shadow of Jungian philosophy.  As a note, I use Greater only for classification purposes (e.g. The Greater New England area).

Doing what you want/being selfish is not inherently about being petty or destructive.  
If you want to serve others because it strikes a chord in your heart, then do so- you're still doing what you want.  It's about being honest with yourself with regards to personal wishes and, in some cases, finding out what you want MORE.  (I do believe in Ethics, in that regard)

I hold very dear the Thelemic Injunction: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.  Love is the law, love under will."

[Moonburn33]

ok so how do i tie this into the original intent of the post.  i think that the previous post of mine was a footnote, of sorts.  (i don't want to turn this thread into a pile of histrionic evangelism)

[aryanknight666]

hmmm....you see, the left hand path is not about hurting other people for no reason. It's not about going around and casting black magick on everybody...it's not always about "worshipping the self" or only think of oneself, of being only completely selfish.
You see, I would regard mages trying to exploit demons of the goetia with nine foot circles, spiritual abuse, "protective pentagrams" etc, in order to get some sort of gain whether it be financial, romantic, whatever, to be of the right hand path.
I would define the left hand path as...satisfying the self, nourishing the self, seeking and finding knowledge, free thought, free choice, free will, think for oneself.
You are mistaken if you think the occult adepts have always been sourceophiles, because to be quite frank, these notion of jesus, buddha, krishna, all being mystic prophets of the "I AM" maker source, are really quite young, and you're famous occultist or occult adepts came before these theories ever existed. And, just for the record, most if not all of them were of the left hand path.
What exactly is the demonic goetia?
It is a list of pagan gods from various ancient civilisations around the world, these gods often predate christianity and judaism by thousands of years, and have always been positive beings until "solomon" decided they were they were all "demons", which happens to be the classic latin form of the modern latin word "daemon", which is the derivative of the greek word "daimon", which refers to just a base level spirit lower then a god but stronger then a person. The Hebrews decided they were going to try and make their polytheistic religion of blood sacrifice into a monotheistic one, and in doing so had to trample out all other religions, and so they systematically sacked and burnt temples, shrines and libraries to other gods. They invaded and took over palestine, and decided they were going to make war, mass murder and rape with the philestines and other ancient civilisations which worshipped the first real gods of humanity. They called these Gods "lords", "Idols" and "hairy men".
What is it that I find ironic about light white occultists? Why, look at the title! it contradicts itself. The occult IS the black arts. The "Demons", proported "fallen angels", are the pagan gods - it doesn't matter which, just all of them. All of the occult, mysticism, spirituality, and psychics are synonymous with the judeao-christian mythological figure "satan" and the pagan gods of the "demonic" goetia; apparently, the occult, mysticism, and spirituality are all deceptions by "satan" and "demons". The spirit world is the kingdom of satan, and all spirit mediumship, whether proported to be with ghosts, angels, whatever, are supposedly these demons at the other end of the line pinching their noses.
Do not kid yourself folks - the wonderful yahweh and his son strictly condemned all forms of the occult and spiritualism.
Can you see the hypocrasy of walking into the realm of the occult whilst carrying the attached stigma?
Next time you're discussing astral projection, divination, spirit mediumship, and any other of the black arts do not forget to throw in the name of jesus ad neuseum, the man who proportedly cast out unclean spirits from the likes of spiritualists, fortune tellers and sorcers,, the son of the one who ordered his people to stone to death sorceres, diviners, sooth sayers and mediums.

[Moonburn33]

In my experience, all true occultists eventually tread the left hand path.  Otherwise they'd just be mystics.

[Rastus]

Hmmmm.

Now if I believe that Jesus wasn't a "Son of God", but just a man, albeit an adept as high as man can hope to achieve, then everything ArianKnight said is spurious.  Deeds attributed to him are, well, the edited accounts by men.  I'd love to read some of the books NOT included in the bible.  There's sooooooo much missing, it's mind boggling.

And If I assume the nature of "gods" is what it really is (as opposed to GOD), then ArianKnight is also mostly right.

A quandry?  Not at all.  Semantics.  GOD as in the force behind the creation of this universe, and "god" as in oh say, Odin.  Are both real?  Most definately.  Is one more powerful than the other?  Well, of course.  But GOD isn't going to show up on your doorstep.

Monotheism is a construct of men after power.  It has nothing to do with 'reality'.  Any new religion has to stomp on the old ones, but it can't be too different or it won't get any converts.  That's just power politics.

Let's look at a practical example the God/Goddess aka Gaia.  Deity?  No.  Fellow sentient being?  Most definately.  A being you can work with?  Bigtime.  Worship?  Ummmm, no.  Not for me.  Symbiotic relationship?  The #1 reason humans are here at this time.

So, for clarities sake, are we defining the following?

Left Hand Path The path that follows individuality.  A solo quest through life.  You are only interested inenlightening yourself.

Right Hand Path The path that follows the group.  A group qwest through life.  Trying to enlighten others as much if not moreso than yourself.

Now I'm pondering.  I do think you can be left or right hand path and still be white.  That's white in a metaphysical sense, leave religion out for now.

[aryanknight666]

The books missing from the bible such as the book of thomas etc, although I don't know much about them, include jesus have sex with prostitues and bashing a boy to death with a rock because he had something jesus wanted.
In my opinion this man never existed. And whether he did or he didn't, he is sorely over-rated. He was a jewish man who said that he was God, and made his followers leave behind their families and their lives to join him...sounds like a modern day cult, no?
Just like alot of modern day cults still are loosely based of judeao-christian beleifs with major differences Jesus's teachings were loosely based of judaism well were still very different.
Remember, he didn't really forfill what he taught. He got angry at people plenty of times, expressed hatred as well, cursed people, at one time he killed a fig tree for not bearing him fruit when it wasn't a fruit bearing season, he encouraged his disciples to buy swords and condemned those who did not want to kill.
I do not think that he was the best anyone could hope to be.

[Rastus]

But I don't base my account on written works of men.  I can sight works to say anything I want if I dig deep enough.  I can find works in the current bible to ...let's pick on James S...self proclaimed witch, to condem him to death and praise him as god's agent in different books.  Let's face it, the Bible is a book full of contradictions, often in the same chapters.

Bhudist ahve the same problem.  Bhudda says you can achieve enlightenment in your lifetime, yet nearly all buddists don't hink they will this lifetime, and already plan on another incarnation to finish.  They have self-defeated themselves before thye even tried!

[aryanknight666]

Well, there are many stages of enlightenment. Perfect Complete Enlightenment is the final stage. Yes, buddhists will say that the chances of acheiving this in one life time are nill.
According to a Buddhist it takes alot of accumulation and lifetimes to get to the stage you are at now.
Perhaps what is meant by "the chances of acheiving perfect complete enlightenment in one lifetime is nil", is that in order to come across the buddha's teachings whilst incarnate in a human body, you would have already had to have done alot of incarnating and accumulating, so you cannot encounter the buddha's teachings and acheive in enlightenment in one or you first lifetime.

[kalratri]

who cares what a bunch of lazy monks say?  Buddha counts, and he said all that was required was immense hard work and effort on your part.  It  is your determination that counts, not one loser monk's opinion.  As far as the Buddha is concerned that negative monk is wasting his time in self doubt and silly debate instead of doing the hard work of cleansing oneself.

[aryanknight666]

I think you better seriously reconsider you are calling a loser and lazy, a normal member of the sangha does 16 hours of study a day and I'm talking about ven. master chin kung.

[Mathias Jonsson]

One can clearly see here that there is a dividing line between how one views the left hand path.

I want to clarify my stance in the issue.
I don't object to adepti using spirits of various kind, Goetic or Qlipphotic.
I like Crowley, and well he had his share of dark streaks
But ultimately magick and mysticism are two rivers that flow together.
I really think that Crowley foremost saw himself as a mystic, more than a magus.
I think it was PF Case who said that a magician should be like a glass window^, if you understand the metaphor. Magick do inflate the ego,hence the many historical in-fights in orders such as Golden Dawn.

This is also detrimental as the goal of mysticism and magick is to let go of the ego. Once you reach the Archetypal triangle you have to let go of the ego.

Magick is yes  as commented here deemed by Christians as anti-Christian yet the greatest magickal traditions where esoterically Christian! Both Rosicrucian (Golden Dawn, OTO, BOTA, etc) and Ogdoadic (Aurum Solis) have been largely formed by Christian adepti.
Magick unfortunately has become a shadow (using a Jung concept here) of religious people's fears.
Most magick students are confronted with these fears if their activities should be known.
So I suggest to better call it "personal development". as many perosnal development, mental training courses as used by most athletes are Occult technniques!!

But there is also a esoteric trend to seek out esoteric dangers and wallow in it. This mayt be a danger in that qlipphotic mighty energies might find a suitable channel for manifestation.
Can you as a left-hand magician deal with a Demon King??? (the equivalent of a Archangel).
There are few high grade white magicians who can. Romero here at Astralpulse can.

I don't condemn calling up demons (if you have the true skill to do so), but you have to know what you are doing and how to control whatever answers your call. Also do you really know their agenda of answering?? This is of course a danger in all types of magickal evocation and I'm not being paranoid, I'm just calling to attention important points.

I'm interested in demonology and other dark aspects, but I would never turn to just work solely with Qlipphotic energies.
For me the Qlipphah are aspects that one has to face in one way or other. They may be illuminating, but I wouldn't praise them.
But I guess whether one turns left or right in magick is a matter of taste.

There have been many crimes where mentally unbalanced peole have told of being controlled by inner voices that urged them to kill.
Perhaps just acute psychosis/mental stability you might say? I'm not so certain.

This may not be dark/left-hand magicians but there unfortunately other people that turn to Satanism (not Church of Satan or Temple of Set-type satanism), I mean the real low type, and they fall to easy prey to negative energies that prey on the unwary.
There must be a reason that so many people on this board have experienced neg problems.
Then one can debate whether negs are qlipphotic or not. I would say they are to some extent.
But even if they aren't we have to learn how to deal with their type of energies.

[aryanknight666]

There's one thing I can be sure about the "goetic qlipothic entities" and that's that its bovine excrement. They are not "empty shells" or psychic vampires. That's an insult. There's nothing to handling a "demon king"; what, really, do you expect when you draw up a nine-foot protective circle on the floor, brand the demon with a magickal weapon, treat it like a slave demanding things from it and abusing it with enemy god names?
You wouldn't treat an Angel in this way, and guess what? an Angel would not take excrement like this either.

quote:This may not be dark/left-hand magicians but there unfortunately other people that turn to Satanism (not Church of Satan or Temple of Set-type satanism), I mean the real low type, and they fall to easy prey to negative energies that prey on the unwary.

"The real low type"? You seem to be reffering to theistic satanism, perhaps you should discover just what you are talking about instead of making assumptions based off crappy movies and tv shows. The temple of set are theistic satanists as well...can you honestly say yuo've met one theistic satanist who has "fallen to easy pray to negative energies"?
Have you ever even summoned or worked with a demon, or had any *real* experience with a goetic demon at all?

[Mathias Jonsson]

I've never said that Goetic spirits and Qlipphah are the same!!!
You accuse me of not knowing what I talk about yet you call a Qlipphoth "an empty shell", talk about throwing stones in a glass house!
Or maybe it should be a left hand glass house .

I have studied texts by dark magicians who are solely working with qlipphotic energies and say they are benefiting very well from this type of studies. Fine, yet, this is somwhat of an uncharted territory, even they, the dark magicians declare it as such. Few have really been there.

I respect those who have the ability to deal with Qlipphotic energies are learn from it. Yet I confess that I hold a prejudiced view that there are some dangers involved, based on the experience I have of negattacks:
The question is how related negs and qlipphotic (or dark; whatever you prefer to call it) energies are related, my experience say they are related. And so does others like RB.

So thus my biased view. I also feel empathy for those people who suffer from negs and /or possession, and I want to help if I can:
I also have six years of experience working in ma psychiatric institution.

Do you?? Maybe you consider these people who suffer from negs are to blame themselves,and that if they can't handle it so let them perish??

And Yes, maybe I meant theistic satanists.

And yes I haven't invoked a demon or a goetic spirit.  Have you??? I really suspect you haven't. I've had contact once or twice with what looked like a demon or satyr, that appeared clearly outside my circle.
I respect all these powers for what they are. But I won't start praising them.
The only force to praise is your higher self!!!

PS: This board has unfortunately turned to a place where people seem must interested in furthering their own narrow ideas and calling people names who don't share them.
When I joined it was a place where people shared their experiences and respected each other. It is a pity really. DS.