The naked truth of chronic negativity...

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma

What I meant was that your post was completely superflous, adding nothing, but merely repositing what 'we' had already posted as being your own.

And your one-line comment on my post was adding what, exactly? Apart from being antagonistic i mean?


So my mentioning Robert Monroe or Carlos Castaneda or "Hungry Ghosts" etc was not adding anything? And i never claimed anything as being my "own" apart from when i talk of my own experiences. Why not actually keep to the subject rather than criticizing my posting style?

quote:
It isnt about seeing the glass half full or half empty. It is to do with the fact that unfortunately some of us have experienced what it is like to suffer psychic attacks by negs.

Did you read Frank's post which James had put there for everyone to see?  If you did, I suggest you reread it carefully, you seem to have missed the entire point.  You apparently missed Frank's explanation of how he was trapped in the lower astral realms for 5 years,

That is one mans explanation of his own experience. Yes i read it and agree with parts of it. But what you dont seem to understand is that you dont have to be Astral Projecting to be psychically attacked. Which, unless i am mistaken, was the point Dk was making in her post.

quote:
mistaking it for the whole of the astral experience, which apparently you still do as well, given your point of being robbed as some sort of equivalent example.

You dont have to Astral project to be robbed of your energy. Negs sneak into the Real-time zone to do that.

quote:
 Or, perhaps you could explain how you have far more experience than Frank, or the others whom even you agree corroborate Frank's explanation, and why you actually disagree with him.

How do you know what experience i have? You havent asked, but you certainly seem to be assuming things about me you obviously do not know. And where did i say i disagree with him? I didn't. I was making a comment on his post and adding other things related to it but then you come in with your clever one liner comment that added nothing but the start of an argument. And yes as it so happens i do have a lot of experience as far as negs and psychic attacks go (this is, after all, the Psychic Self Defense forum not the Astral Projection forum). Do you?

quote:
Must you go there again McA?  Tell you what I'll do, just for you.  I'll be the bigger person here, and take away my big bad POV, letting you have your way.

Its not about having "my way" its about expressing my own pov and making comments on this topic from my own personal experiences. If you want to act as though you are the one being all "big" by walking away from the thread thats fine, because to be honest your smug attitude is not really offering anything positive to the subject and/or those experiencing attacks.

[Dark Knight]

quote:Just one of the annoying things I always see, is that whenever a new thread is made Dark Knight feels the need to reply in what I feel is a negative light. Using her experiences to gain sympathy or assistance or at least as a springboard from which to post blatantly against outside views she does not accept herself.

I don't mean to judge - that is not my intent - but its irritating to see thread after thread erupt in arguement and misunderstanding because of these posts.

Ramiel, you are judging, and there are some things that can't be debated on. Like saying you're a little pregnant. People under attack come to this forum to share ideas, and people on the outside have come in without any desire for care, understanding, or consequence whatsoever.
Spectral,

They're always going to think I'm talking about myself and no one else. They're always going to think I am asking for sympathy for ME, regardless of how many times the topic I am writing about has nothing to do with me. And they're always going to believe I astral project, when I don't. I'm a Pharmaceutical scientist and I never wanted this phenomenon in my life...I was dragged kicking and screaming the whole way.

And they're always going to tell people under attack they acknowledge a psychic/neg attack experience, then put up posts like Frank's saying it's not happening. People under attack have to worry about the negs and worry about offending people with good intentions who can't take the word "no" because it is negative.

[Nay]

McArthur, Dk, SpectralDragon, and yes...Kiauma.  Please take your bickering somewhere else. []

McArthur and DK, Post your opinion, then be done with it.. Do not continue to dissect every post you happen upon, (oh geez, I can see you using this as a quote now []) Or I will become delete happy..[]  This is not the kind of forum we had in mind.  We believe in freedom of speech, but once that speech is done, that is it.  If the topic continues to upset you after your first rant, then just do not continue to partake in that paticular thread. Thanks [^]

SpectralDragon..all I can say is, you need to find your own thoughts and opinions. Following behind someone and then agreeing all the time, will grow tiresome, as do your oneliners.

Later,

Nay

[SpectralDragon]

quote:Originally posted by Nay
SpectralDragon..all I can say is, you need to find your own thoughts and opinions. Following behind someone and then agreeing all the time, will grow tiresome, as do your oneliners.

Later,

Nay

That's the funniest thing I have ever heard. LOL

Nay, I think you need to follow your own advice as well after all you ARE posting other peoples things. Who is the one who isn't being original? At least my fluffie bunnie sayings and one liners are original.

And if you think I have not come up with my own well I was, but most of you liked turning it around in wierd ways that did not make sense. So I quite for a while till people started to make sense, which hasn't happened yet as you are proof of. []

Sorry if that was a little harsh but well, so were you.

I have had much experience with these things well before I ever came onto the pulse. Do you think I would be following DK when I had these ideals well before I met her?

Silliest thing I ever heard. And from a mod no less.

One last thing, if you mods don't start following your own advice more people are going to quite the forums. It's not good karma to not practice what you preach.

Delete this and threaten me because I am right if you want, this must stop on ALL SIDES, INCLUDING THE SIDE OF THE MODERATORS.

[rhinegirl]

quote:Originally posted by SpectralDragon
One last thing, if you mods don't start following your own advice more people are going to quite the forums. It's not good karma to not practice what you preach.

Delete this and threaten me because I am right if you want, this must stop on ALL SIDES, INCLUDING THE SIDE OF THE MODERATORS.

I think Karma is bullcrap. I beleive that the westernized version of karma is twisted beyond recognition by new agers who have no concept of what Karma means to the eastern traditions.

We may delete it and threaten you because you might be *shudder* WRONG*shudder*

This place is messed up because there's very few original thinkers on this forum. It's turned into yesmen and catfights. perhaps the people who quit will be the ones not wanted, sadly enough most of the people worth hearing have left. Cracked santa is gone, ender rarely posts. DK seems to have a massive following of yesmen and anyone who disagrees with her gets shouted down and insulted.

Jessica

[findtruth]

Rhinegirl, I seem to have heard your post somewhere before... by someone else.

[James S]

Jeez, would you lot JUST QUIT IT! Stop trying to score points of each other!

Kiauma and McArthur:
I want you two to try something different - reply to someone's post in one thought stream. Don't keep breaking things down and picking them apart - you lose context, and this style of reply seems to be getting people on the defensive a lot more.

DK:
Read Franks post again - I think you might not have acknowledged what he was saying about the "scamps", because he most certainly did NOT say it's not happening. You've read into it something he did not say. Also, you have been well and truly warned about about your continuous generalised criticisms about people "on the outside" having no desire to care or understand. This is old news. DROP IT!

Spectral:
You may think you are right, but you are being viewed by the moderators of this forum as being deliberately argumentative, spending too much time pointing fingers and trying to fight other people's battles. Back off for a while and let yourself calm down. Do NOT submit another accusational post!

Rhinegirl:
Dont be so forceful and personal about your opinions. That get's people off side very quickly whether what you say is true or not. I don't hold much with the westernised idea of karma myself -  I'm a cause and effect type guy, but I too tend to use the word in the same context as Spectral did. Forceful remarks aimed at someone in particular is not the way to do it.

Can we please get back to posting on the subjects of the topics and stop these petty squabbles. If not, this PSD forum, valuable or not, will be shut down just like the energy sub forum was shut down because of ongoing arguments among DBZ followers. Arguments like these are damaging the entire AstralPulse forum and there is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR IT!

[Ramiel]

To solve a problem one must identify it, first, Spectral.

DK: My intent is not to judge, thus I do not judge. I am merely bringing to light what I see as a potential problem. I can't relate to your experiences in this lifetime but that is simply because I'm not going to.

I think you are, however, potentially too sensitive to the topics on this sub-forum, and you take it much more personally than you should. You got screwed around, a lot. It happend for a reason. Perhaps searching for the answer as to 'why' instead of living in it, is the next course of action, or step towards fulfillment and the ability to put it in your past.

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by Nay

McArthur, Dk, SpectralDragon, and yes...Kiauma.  Please take your bickering somewhere else. []

McArthur and DK, Post your opinion, then be done with it.. Do not continue to dissect every post you happen upon, (oh geez, I can see you using this as a quote now []) Or I will become delete happy..[]  This is not the kind of forum we had in mind.  We believe in freedom of speech, but once that speech is done, that is it.

If someone replies to my post i will reply back. Are you suggesting we should all just make one post per thread? Ridiculous. Methinks you dont like the fact that i have criticized the articles you have posted and are now threatening to delete them.

quote:
If the topic continues to upset you after your first rant, then just do not continue to partake in that paticular thread. Thanks [^]

I cant believe im actually reading this! So you are going to start deleting my posts because i am offering a different opinion built up from my experience in this area? Discussion Forums are for Discussions. And if you post articles on here that i think are misleading then i will damn sure post why i think it *is* misleading and/or incorrect. If you dont like it then tough, delete my posts or ban me or something but ive been coming here for a long time and on the boards before these at www.astralresaerch.com and this is the only time i have *ever* been threatened with censureship.

Did you not even notice in my last post that it was me who was asking for us to stay on topic rather that posting one-liners with no content?

What the hell has happened to these boards while i was away???

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by James S
Can we please get back to posting on the subjects of the topics and stop these petty squabbles. If not, this PSD forum, valuable or not, will be shut down just like the energy sub forum was shut down because of ongoing arguments among DBZ followers. Arguments like these are damaging the entire AstralPulse forum and there is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR IT!

If that is the case then perhaps those of us who are not afraid to talk about negs and Psychic Self Defense could possibly start a forum elsewhere and ask Robert Bruce to link to that forum instead of here for that particular subject. People are reading his book and coming here because of it but there seems to be a certain agenda amongst some here, including Moderators, to disparage even Roberts own work at times.

It seems to me the "Love and Light" brigade would love this Forum to be gone because through their own fear of the subject it seems somehow negative to them. Well i certainly dont feel like staying if im going to have my posts deleted by power-tripping Mods because they are personally upset at the way i criticize the articles they post.

If anyone reading this would like to help set up a Forum elsewhere specifically for Psychic Self Defense and the subject of negs please PM me and i will email Robert to see if he will link to it.

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by McArthur

Robert Monroe also describes these lower areas in Far Journeys where he saw various beings, humans or otherwise, attaching themselves to living humans trying to live through them vicariously and/or affecting peoples lives.

I just wanted to make a correction here i remembered last night. It wasn't the "lower areas" as in Lower Astral he was describing in his book. It is while he is walking (or floating, whtaever) the Earth as a ghost where he sees "ghosts" clinging to peoples backs/shoulders on the Physical Plane etc without them knowing. So what he was describing is what Robert Bruce calls the Real-Time Zone.

[Mick]

Having been in this arena for some 30 years I think that gives me the casting vote but that aside []. For me AP is one view, my mentors long ago spoke of the astral context and it's provision of a relatively safe environment but made the point that this is not the complete picture so investigation and discussion is in my view good. The insular view obviously gives a degree of protection and isolation from the greater reality but that for me is not where I want to be. Understanding our environment can mean stepping out from the safety of the keep and taking a look around and not hopping to the nearest safe spot. This may not be for everyone but for one group to deny it for another group, their cup may be half full, for some of us with half empty cups we might seek to refill them with new experience and knowledge.

A thought that maybe of interest and I hope I recall it correctly. Joe McMoneagle, a former remote viewer of some repute spoke of the virtue of remote viewing versus astral projection. IIRC his statement is that of the two methods RV provided the greater accuracy, he is an experienced APer but that is his conclusion so as with all things care is needed when using one source of information to underwrite beliefs.
For those interested in more details about Joe McMoneagle see http://www.mceagle.com/remote-viewing/

quote:Originally posted by James S

Jeez, would you lot JUST QUIT IT! Stop trying to score points of each other!

Kiauma and McArthur:
I want you two to try something different - reply to someone's post in one thought stream. Don't keep breaking things down and picking them apart - you lose context, and this style of reply seems to be getting people on the defensive a lot more.

I looked at this yesterday and thought here we go again just when the range war looked like it was entering a truce
But I would like to make the following observation. In a heightened state of tension, Nay once again rolls in an article which in the present climate could do no more than inflame the situation. There is a fundamental debate of philosophy and experience taking place here with attempts by some moderation to explore and categorise where such input is valid but when presented prematurely as the definitive state of play there should be no surprise that some should examine and disect. If the article is not open to disection and examination then we start to promote dogma.

There followed a few replies not in favour and some qualified by the inclusions of counter points. Next we have:

quote:Ahhhhhh..McArthur and Dk, so lovely to see you this fine morning of my birth! Thanks for your comments!  

Hey....how 'bout for my birthday, you two stop playing tag team for one day, on the Astral Pulse? Now that will be the most wonderful gift a old gal like me can get!  

Thanks ya'll, knew you would understand

Which may have been presented in an attempt to calm but again in the current climate it was a bit of a red flag to a bull by claiming some collusion between two people who are in my view independantly stating their points of view. This then deteriorates into other claims of 'friends of...' etc. In my view if one wishes to debate differences of philosphy and experiences, that is what it should be, not the resorting to personalysing the issue, this for me usually demonstrates a lack of sound arguments for the case in hand.

Please lets see the corrective measures applied equally including towards some of the moderation that we are seeing here.

 

[Dark Knight]

I attempted to start a new thread to leave this one. It got moved.:

quote:http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10650

arguments are explored and dissected for a reason...it's called learning.

Ramiel: you're not going to make an effort to understand, but you can't understand why me or someone else under attack would be so sensitive to everything and want to make a judement call on that. What was the point of that?

[SpectralDragon]

quote:Originally posted by James S



Spectral:
You may think you are right, but you are being viewed by the moderators of this forum as being deliberately argumentative, spending too much time pointing fingers and trying to fight other people's battles. Back off for a while and let yourself calm down. Do NOT submit another accusational post!

I have one more thing to say before I so called "cool down and become imaginitive" I say so called because I have been fighting for not only the defense of the people who are being told "this is your fualt" but also I have said I work on cases. I have been a case myself.

Think what you want, because of the way the mods are acting and going about business I know this will happen again, and again, and again till they learn.

That is all. Try and kick at me while saying "don't make any accusational posts" all you want now. For me this had been very personal.

Have a nice day.

[Sam]

I've just "read" this thread but all I've seen is "Blah blah blahditty blah".  Is it really helping to keep talking about this absolute bullsh*t that has nothing to do with what we are trying to achieve here???  What are we trying to achieve here?  Psychic self defense perhaps?

Two words:
SETTLE GRETTLE!

Please?

[kiauma]

Kiauma and McArthur:
I want you two to try something different - reply to someone's post in one thought stream. Don't keep breaking things down and picking them apart - you lose context, and this style of reply seems to be getting people on the defensive a lot more.

LOL - oh James, you really miss my point entirely!  Yes, I break things down and pick them apart, however this is my way of finding the underlying context.  I am not content with the illusion of surface context, though I grant it's importance as well.

And yes, you are so right it sparks defensiveness! - and the correlation of those who jump on the defensive and those who feel attacked by 'Negs' is %100!!!  Coincidence?  Think about it.  I have, and I am thinking of starting a new topic about ego and negativity.

We need more posts like the last one by Mick.  He summed it up very well, albeit with the one small contradiction of speaking against "the insular view" and in the same post condemning Nay's input.

The bottom line for me is I want discussion that gets somewhere - not everyone stating their position then staring at each other in a benign, friendly manner.  This may be what you want, but it seems rather impotent to me.   Sweden enjoyed 500 years of peace, and what did we get?  The Cuckoo clock.  

I recognize that most arguments presented here are less than rational - but this is the place to correlate and discuss those views.  This is NOT a university lecture hall, with rapt attention and formal propriety, it as the AP PSD forum, and by it's very nature, as SD pointed out, a magnet for conflict.  That's not to say it is irreconcilable conflict, but you have to give it time, and understanding, and yes, love.

See you all around.  []

[Mick]

quote:Originally posted by kiauma


We need more posts like the last one by Mick.  He summed it up very well, albeit with the one small contradiction of speaking against "the insular view" and in the same post condemning Nay's input.

I stand by the insular view for various reasons, my reference to Nay is for stirring the pot at the wrong moment.

quote:Sweden enjoyed 500 years of peace, and what did we get?  The Cuckoo clock.  

Sweden, try eugenics and also environmental concerns later both adopted by the Nazis. Switzerland on the other hand do a good line in clocks and banking of Nazi money (some of it of Jewish and other concentration camp inmate ownership)

quote:I recognize that most arguments presented here are less than rational - but this is the place to correlate and discuss those

For many the whole of AP fits this category, this is just one branch of this irrationality []

[kiauma]

Sweden, try eugenics and also environmental concerns later both adopted by the Nazis. Switzerland on the other hand do a good line in clocks and banking of Nazi money (some of it of Jewish and other concentration camp inmate ownership)

If memory serves, that was all in the last 50 years - correct me if I am wrong.


For many the whole of AP fits this category, this is just one branch of this irrationality

Another baseless accusation.  Why is my statement (I assume that is what you are referring to, as you do not say) an irrationality?  Yes, there have been pockets of conflict that fit what I and others have described, such as the DBZ and the demon war debacles, but you imply this is the norm when the vast majority of threads are not that way at all - why?

I stand by the insular view for various reasons, my reference to Nay is for stirring the pot at the wrong moment.

What 'various reasons'?  NOW is the time to state them.  How is Nay, by introducing a perspective through which peace is readily available to a group of people who are admittedly here to find help for a serious problem, stirring the pot at the wrong moment?

You, like others here, are putting the cart before the horse.  People come here for help, so we post what we hope is helpful, telling them they ARE empowered - and they cry "No!  You must not tell us that!  You hurt us by telling us that!" - what you miss is the very nature of the problem, which is that they are in a doublebind between their perceptions and their self-image.

Furthermore, let us put this 'insular' view of yours to bed for good - also known as the 'filter' perspective.   Let me make an analogy between a person in the astral plane and a person on an island.   On this island there is a beautiful lagoon.  In the lagoon there is a waterfall with fresh water, plenty of nourishing food and restful shade.  Also on the island is a large, active volcano, glowing and smoking.   For the sake of the analogy, the lagoon and the volcano coexist for eternity.

Now, a person on this island has choices, which he actualizes with his mind, his hands and his feet.  He is in the lagoon, and he says, "I love this island, it is so beautiful, look at this peaceful lagoon, how I love it."  In other words, the lagoon is analogous to a nourishing environment and self-image.  If he cares for himself, he will seek the lagoon for water, food, rest and shelter, which in turn will reinforce his strength.   He will grow.

But wait!  Isn't he cutting himself off from half of the experience of the island?  Certainly, by avoiding the volcano, he is living an 'insular' existance.   Obviously, he knows that he is free to jump into the volcano at any time.  He has several valuable lessons he could learn in the volcano, such as the importance of self-love, and a habitable envirnment.  The volcano is a ready place to learn the importance of choices that nourish the self.  

Fortunately, the man already knows the results of angry, defensive, self-destructive thoughts and behaviour, so has no reason to jump into the volcano - to experience the 'full' environment of the island.

Or does he?  Perhaps you can give me a good reason the man must not live an 'insular' existance?  []

[Dark Knight]

quote:You, like others here, are putting the cart before the horse. People come here for help, so we post what we hope is helpful, telling them they ARE empowered - and they cry "No! You must not tell us that! You hurt us by telling us that!" - what you miss is the very nature of the problem, which is that they are in a doublebind between their perceptions and their self-image.

Empowerment is an action on both sides, not just words. You do what works not what you think works.

Shut down PSD forum.

[rhinegirl]

quote:Originally posted by Dark Knight

quote:You, like others here, are putting the cart before the horse. People come here for help, so we post what we hope is helpful, telling them they ARE empowered - and they cry "No! You must not tell us that! You hurt us by telling us that!" - what you miss is the very nature of the problem, which is that they are in a doublebind between their perceptions and their self-image.

Empowerment is an action on both sides, not just words. You do what works not what you think works.

Shut down PSD forum.

DK your quote has nothing to do with the quote you quoted. Kiama is most correct in regards to what she speaks of. Most people cannot see through their own garbage and thus need the perception of others. One must also use a graet deal of introspection.

Some people on these forums are very passive aggressive and yet freak out when someone points this out to them.
hmmmmm...I wonder who[?][?]

Jessica

[Dark Knight]

quote:DK your quote has nothing to do with the quote you quoted. Kiama is most correct in regards to what she speaks of. Most people cannot see through their own garbage and thus need the perception of others. One must also use a graet deal of introspection.

Some people on these forums are very passive aggressive and yet freak out when someone points this out to them.
hmmmmm...I wonder who

It has everything to do with that quote.

Petition to shut down PSD forum

[rhinegirl]

quote:Originally posted by Dark Knight
It has everything to do with that quote.

Petition to shut down PSD forum

WELL THEN ELLABORATE. nothing is more annoying than people trying to sound cryptic and not realizing they simply sound ignorant and boring!

And what teh hell is PSD forum?

Jessica

[Dark Knight]

quote:WELL THEN ELLABORATE. nothing is more annoying than people trying to sound cryptic and not realizing they simply sound ignorant and boring!

And what teh hell is PSD forum?

Please keep her statement and let it stand as is, it speaks for itself.

Lock up PSD Forum.

[kiauma]

Give RG a break DK - she does not know.  Is she to be convicted and ridiculed for that?


Empowerment is an action on both sides, not just words. You do what works not what you think works.


Let's talk about the issues in your post - you are a big girl, I'm sure you can do that.

Yes, empowerment is an action on both sides, to a point.  The only issue here is respecting each other's rights.

If something works for you DK, I am not going to hold it against you.  I will, however, given the nature of the forum, suggest someething that would work better based on what works for me, and you are free to decline it.  You see?  You are free to speak, and I am free to speak.  We have the choice of accpetance or rejection of each other's words, and that is all.  We do not have the power to reject each other's Self, as your words imply - that is a ludicrous notion.

Shut down PSD forum.

So it is your way or no-way?  Might your attempts to control what you have no control over be a source of conflict?

You are free to disagree, of course - as long as there is a forum to disagree on...

[rhinegirl]

PSD Psychic Self-Defense forum. This forum.

[)][]Boy do I feel silly![)][:I]

On a more acidic note. Perhaps DK has been taken over by the negs that were attacking her.

Hence why when I came here I thought she was an evil psychic vampyre.

JESSICA