The naked truth of chronic negativity...

[Squeek]

Ah, what a lovely read.  And I have to agree with her!   This story / article (Whatever it is) reminds me of a section of lyrics I used to have in my signature.

"You can live if you're willing to,
Put a stop to just what's killin you."

Linkin Park - Part of Me.  Linkin Park is the awesomeness.  Anyway...

I hope people have an open mind while reading this, it really is a great read!

Thanks Nay!

~Squeek

[kiauma]

And that, oh readers, is REAL self-responsibility - NOT insisting that everyone else validate your negative experiences, but instead actually manifesting positive experience.

Quinte is one of my faves!  And Nay!  []

[Nay]

Linda does rock, no doubt about that!  (thanks for adding me as well.[]) No worries, we chatted before using her most insightful article. []

She is most gracious and I hope to learn much more from her!

So, what is your nic over there, or shall I guess?..hehehehe []

Nay

[Tayesin]

Hi ALL,

That is an excellent article by Quinte, very apt and directly to the point.

About 20 years ago I went to Satsang in Brisbane and learned that I had the choice about whether I was going to be sad/depressed or happy.  We all learned that by choosing to be happy even when you did not feel that way in the moment, you would still begin to FEEL it.  Making the conscious choice brought the feelings up from within and soon enough you were actually feeling happy.  A whole transformation occured in a minute once the decision was made !

All that was required after then was to remember that it is my/your choice in every moment   And that's pretty simple to remember.

Love Always.[]

[McArthur]

Oh isnt it easy to spot those who have never had a serious neg problem. How to spot them is easy, they tend to be very judemental about the subject because they dont understand whats really going on. Comments inserted.

quote:Originally posted by Nay

We are not going to beat about the bush in our exposing of the realistic facts - seek not for sympathy to your aches and pains - for this sympathy, no matter how well meant,  is not going to help you at all -

Having empathy for those who are suffering is part of what makes us Human. Is she saying we should stop doing so?

quote:
on the contrary, it will merely feed your ongoing situation of self imposed negativity,

Aye and theres the rub. This article does not belong here because it automatically excludes the possibility that negs exist and may be a main factor as to why the person is experiencing such levels of negativity. I get attacked by a demon and its my fault is it?

quote:
and will, in the long run be of more destructive value to you.  If I want to be of any constructive help to you at all, it is going to have to happen by attempting to bring a certain realisation to you, of what you actually are experiencing

It always amazes me how someone can make broad generalizations about someone elses experiences without ever even meeting them! lol too funny.

quote:
Whenever something flourishes and becomes abundant, it is merely because sufficient, consistent and ongoing  nourishment has been given to it.  Thus too is the case with negative thoughts. We all know that we have a choice to be of either negative stance or positive stance.  So what is keeping you in the darkness of your own negativity?

"Its all your fault you are being tortured." What a loving and helpfully positive thing to say. But as i say, this article does not belong here because it does not take into account that there may be various circumstances the author does not even seem to be taking into consideration. i.e. negs.

quote:
Do you really enjoy being there, and thus do not seek to do something about it?

This is the clincher really. Those on this forum who believe they have a neg problem (rightly or wrongly) are here SEEKING HELP in order to "do something about it." Being judgemental against those who are suffering and seeking help is not a very positive thing is it? In fact its the opposite and certainly isn't helping anyone but those with an axe to grind who obviously do not have a serious neg problem.

If you had ever lived under a serious neg problem or serious psychic attack, believe me, it certainly makes you more empathic towards others suffering and probably less judgemental.

quote:
 Perhaps you do not know how to go about improving your situation?  Or are you one of those people who relish the thought of gaining sympathy over and over again from those in supportive and loving proximity?

Oh gee. Have you never heard the phrase "Judge ye not etc?". There may be the occasional person like this but i certainly disagree that *anyone* (including the author of this article) is able to judge *everyone elses* situation. With all this finger pointing perhaps the author should realise that as you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at yourself. And some people having psychic attack will probably never tell anyone because negs will try to keep them from posting their problems to others and therefore seeking help in getting rid of them. Posts and articles like this are a prime example of how to put off neg victims from opening up to others to seek help.

(snips some because im getting tired of commenting, i think my point is already made.)

quote:
The choice of being negative is yours - keep it if you will. But if you do, keep it to yourself, for it is of your deliberate making. It is not a fair practise to expect others to constantly give of themselves towards a situation, which you yourself do not seek to remedy.

More judgemental attitudes with no empathy whatsoever. Is this person actually a human or what? And if people are in this forum posting about possible neg problems then *of course* they are seeking to remedy it.

quote:
The key to success is to stop thinking negatively. It really is that simple!

*rolls eyes* Uh huh, sure it is. Try experiencing a strong full blown neg attack and stopping it with positive thought. *shakes head* Some people just haven't a clue.

Why are you people posting this stuff in this forum? Are you doing it to help or because you are actually being petty and vindictive? Think about that question for a while.

*pause*

If you dont like the subject of negs and/or are not here to help then why bother coming to this part of the forums at all? You're not helping with articles like this and its obvious to anyone who knows even a little tiny bit about this subject that you are lucky enough not to have suffered under the Iron Heel of negs. Good for you, but please try to take a step back and think about why you are criticising those who are suffering by saying "Its all your fault!".

[McArthur]

quote:Perhaps you do not know how to go about improving your situation? Or are you one of those people who relish the thought of gaining sympathy over and over again from those in supportive and loving proximity?

I have more to say on this part. I have a gay friend who was abused by his Mother as a child (locking him in the cellar; tying him to a chair; and other nasty things) and who was also raped by two youths when he was nine years old. He is pretty messed up because of it and is what can be called "an attention seeker". He has psychological scars that affect him even to this day. He is also what might be termed by some as a psychic vampire on occasions.

Sometimes when hes drunk i have to use the "tough love" approach but i never, ever, accuse him of being the one responsible for his childhood abuse. Many many times ive tried to give him healing. Holding him and inwardly saying "take as much energy as you need, its ok." Being judgemental about his situation, i know for a fact, would not help him *whatsoever*. It would probably make matters worse than they already are. And i'll bet that any of the Therapists he has seen over the years has never said to him the kind of things said in the above article, for OBVIOUS reasons.

So after reading this article perhaps i'm not really helping him at all then am i?

[Dark Knight]

An attack is not a choice, anymore than getting mugged or raped is a personal choice.

So we have an all inclusive boundary...people who are attacked are negative and bad and people who aren't are superior and loving.

By that logic, what a miserable child you must have been to deserve what happened to you, Nay. I'm assuming you're going to go reach for some other horrible experience to throw up like a shield and protect yourself...you know all those horrible experiences you claim you have moved through and gotten over.

MacArthur, you are now seeing why "That Thread" became 13 pages long.

[Nay]

I am sorry that my post offended you so much, McArthur.

I expected some comments but hostility, nope didn't see that coming. [^]

I have had a few problems with negs, and dealt with them, then was on my happy way once again. Perhaps it is because of my way of thinking?

Well, I hope you read the post again, but keep a open mind this time and oh, be honest with yourself, and ask..."why in the world did I get so defensive and angry?"

Have a great day! []

Nay

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by Nay

I have had a few problems with negs, and dealt with them, then was on my happy way once again.

I am glad you have solvd your own problems and are now happy with your life, good for you. But that still does not give you the right to go pointing fingers at those who are still suffering. Your tone doesn't sound like you are being helpful, its sounds smarmy.

quote:
Well, I hope you read the post again, but keep a open mind this time and oh, be honest with yourself, and ask..."why in the world did I get so defensive and angry?"

I ripped the article apart because i felt a duty to do so and to show that its not really going to be helpful to those suffering neg problems. Read my other post above about my friend also.

[Nay]

I will not get into a fighting match with you two!

And I will not be pulled into your hate and anger.  So, you two don't like the post..that is obvious....well, move on to the next thread then.[]

Some people might find it helpful and enlightening.  Those whom are ready to stop being the victim will do so, those whom aren't..well, will continue to be angry and defensive.

Turn those frowns upside down! []

Nay

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by Nay
Perhaps it is because of my way of thinking?

ok, look. If that works for you then great, more power to your elbow i say. And i mean it. But what has worked for you may not work for someone else. Each persons experiences are different and what works for one may not work for another.  If you are being raped, just changing your way of thinking isnt going to stop it is it?

There are varying levels of psychic attack from the mild to the downright evil life-threatening ones.

Just because someone is being negative about life does not mean they are under psychic attack (which is what this forum is for). And just because someone is experiencing psychic attack does not mean they will automatically be negative.

If you have really had a serious neg/demon experience and recovered (i know nothing of your experiences) from it then i fail to understand how you can be so negative towards others who may be experiencing similar suffering.

Judgeing people experiencing serious neg problems and pointing fingers at them while they are under psychic attack just isn't going to be of any help. And that is putting it mildly.

[Dark Knight]

quote:And I will not be pulled into your hate and anger. So, you two don't like the post..that is obvious....well, move on to the next thread then.

No you don't have to, Nay, you still have your own to deal with. You never got over it, you didn't even move through it, you walked away and avoided it and claimed victory...you didn't do anything.

You don't even see yourself in others, or see what you do to others. You want everybody's situation to be like yours so you continuously have an easy defeat. Some are easy, some are hard, and the hard ones take time. You can't stand feeling anger for a few minutes, what would you do in the situations of some of the people here, who's choices are limited.

If you were in the shoes of some of the long terms here, you'd inject so much hate into your situation because you'd be trapped like a rat, unable to run away from anything, and that just can't happen, you've got to be safe and protected from everything. Safety isn't guaranteed and isn't owed. What do you do when it happens to you? You can invest you're energy into going woe is me I am not safe, or you can compromise that evil exists, reach out to others and live (and that is a positive attitude).

You're a fear oriented child (I won't even bother calling you an  adult anymore).

If I went back in time and saw you during those three days with the chicken pox, should I give you food and water and should I just smile and say, be positive not afraid or angry, here's a chicken bone for you?

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by Nay
And I will not be pulled into your hate and anger.  

Its always someone else with the hate and anger isnt it? There was no hate whatsoever in my post. Why you would think so is beyond me. If you cant see the reasons why i responded to this thread then fine, but please dont try to make out "its all my fault" you were being spiteful.

[Dark Knight]

quote:Just because someone is being negative about life does not mean they are under psychic attack (which is what this forum is for). And just because someone is experiencing psychic attack does not mean they will automatically be negative.

Somebody turn this into a poster with the largest letters possible, and thank you MacArthur for breaking that boundary down and dilineating it.

And these can't be quoted or said enough:

Direct quote from Robert Bruce's Book, Practical Psychic Self Defensepage xiii

To many people, if a thing cannot be dissected in a laboratory, it cannot exist, even though the evidence of their own eyes and senses repeatedly demands otherwise. A lack of viable scientific alternatives leads to claims of mass hallucination, hysteria, and mental disorders to explain the effects of unseen spirit influences. This is understandable when inexperienced, materialistic minds attempt to grasp what is beyond conventional comprehension at the physical level of existence. Although it can help, denial is not enough to drive back the darkness that has plagued the hearts, minds, and dreams of humanity since our beginnings.

and page xvi

In the world today, those with paranormal troubles are often blamed for attracting and/or creating their own problems. Myriad explanations abound, but they generally hold that victims do something wrong or have "bad karma," often involving past lives. However, philosophy and spiritual finger-pointing are not of much practical help, and while I believe karma, choice, and free will are involved in all aspects of life, it is not only demoralizing but unfair to blame vicitms for their troubles. They surely have enough to deal with. Helpful advice and practical solutions are needed, not blame-based philosophies.

This is Robert Bruce's website, I'll continue to repeat that over and over if need be. People come here because they read "Practical Psychic Self Defense." And they're greeted by moderators who not only do not support Bruce's ideals, but fragment them to being useless.

[James S]

quote:Originally posted by McArthur
Why are you people posting this stuff in this forum? Are you doing it to help or because you are actually being petty and vindictive? Think about that question for a while.

No McArthur, it's because this is a real life situation with real life consequences. Nowhere in the article is there anything mentioned about neg attacks. It's not about neg atacks - its about negativity.

Think about it, for every one person out there that has had genuine issues with negative spiritual entities, there are a dozen more who's only demons are their own pessimistic perceptions. They're not sure what's causing their problems, they come onto a site like this and read about negs, then human nature leads them to that giant leap to the conclusion it must all be because of negs.

We're all terribly well aware that negs do exist, and they can cause some serious damage, but to start defining every negative situation or outlook to being the result of negative spiritual entities puts us smack dab in the middle of the whole evangelical penticostal christian thing where personal responsibilities for situations are removed because there's bound to be some demon that's been pre-defined as being the reason for the problems.

Negative entities cause negative situations, but not all negative situations are caused by negative entities.

Articles like this are useful because we need to seek that point of balance - learn to be able to make a more educated analysis as to whether a problem really is internal or external. Therapists would have you believe that all such problems are internal. Some mystics, psychics or ministers would have you believe its all external. Lets not keep charging over that middle ground on our way from one side of the field to the other.

Kind regards,
James.

[Tayesin]

Hi All,
I think a simple misunderstanding of word meanings in context has occured here.  

No finger pointing has been done from what I have read.  There were statements concerning our own responsibility for what we experience.  That applies to all of us.

Look at the bigger picture here please.  The basis of what has been said in the original post is about our responsibility for what happens.  And the scope is a Soul level one I should think.  Since we did choose the various things that we have experienced so far in life, including all the millions of choices in all the moments that we have made.  So we are responsible for these things from that perspective.

The second instance is about coming to know we are creating these things by our choices, thoughts, actions and words.  We do allow these things to happen in our life, only we have forgotten why we chose them in the first place because we are under the stresses of the experiences.  And that applies from farting in bed to neg attack.

I know this will not be agreed by all, and that is okay too.  
At least think about what has been said.

James S got in b4 me here, but his post is spot on!

"Perception is Everything"

Love Always.[]

[James S]

quote:Originally posted by Dark Knight

This is Robert Bruce's website, I'll continue to repeat that over and over if need be. People come here because they read "Practical Psychic Self Defense." And they're greeted by moderators who not only do not support Bruce's ideals, but fragment them to being useless.

You've mentioned this a couple of times now. No Dark Knight, this is Adrian Cooper's website put together with Robert Bruce's input and guidance to present his works and the works of others also in his fields. You may have noticed that Nita also features heavily in the articles on the AstralPulse site, and not all of her practices go hand in hand with Robert's.

Nowhere has Robert ever said that in order to be a moderator on this site do we need to be in complete agreement with everything he says. That would be a bit cult-ish don't you think?

If you've ever spent any time looking at the OBE forums you'll see that Robert's techniques are not the only ones used, in fact there have possibly been more discussions regarding material from The Munroe Institue, and many people here, myself included, have had more success with Robert Munroe's techniques of astral phasing than RB's OBE methods. I do however own a copy of Astral Dynamics, as I believe it to be one of the best written books on the subject of astral travel. BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!

Nor are Robert Bruce's methods of psychic defense the only ones.
If PPSD works for you then great. His writings have indeed helped many people, and I'm keen to hear of methods that work for people. But please do not dispute valid information presented by others that has also proven beneficial to people in need of help just because it mightn't agree with you or what has been written in PPSD![/b]

Regards,
James.

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by James S
No McArthur, it's because this is a real life situation with real life consequences. Nowhere in the article is there anything mentioned about neg attacks. It's not about neg atacks - its about negativity.

Well that was partly the point i was making. Negativity may not have anything to do with psychic attacks or vice versa.

quote:
Think about it, for every one person out there that has had genuine issues with negative spiritual entities, there are a dozen more who's only demons are their own pessimistic perceptions.

And how does one tell the difference between the two? I see what you are saying as a *balanced* approach but the article posted in this thread, as i pointed out in my first response, does not include the possibility that negs exist. It is basically saying to any new poster here, "There are no negs, all your negativity is your own fault, tough luck buster, sort your own s*** out on your own."

quote:
They're not sure what's causing their problems, they come onto a site like this and read about negs, then human nature leads them to that giant leap to the conclusion it must all be because of negs.

No i'm sorry but i disagree. I think people are more intelligent than you make them out to be.

quote:
We're all terribly well aware that negs do exist,

Are we? That is a very genral sweeping statement that i dare say you can not prove. MOST people dont even know ANYTHING about negs. The article posted in this thread (i'll say again) denies the very possibility of them. And denial aint a river in Egypt.

quote:
and they can cause some serious damage, but to start defining every negative situation or outlook to being the result of negative spiritual entities

Who exactly is doing that? I certainly am not. Read my post where i say that just because someone is negative about life does not mean they are under psychic attack. What made you say that?

quote:
puts us smack dab in the middle of the whole evangelical penticostal christian thing where personal responsibilities for situations are removed because there's bound to be some demon that's been pre-defined as being the reason for the problems.

Do i see a tinge of Anti-Christian hatred in there somewhere? There is a saying amongst some Christian friends of mine that the greatest deception the "Devil" ever achieved was getting people to believe he didnt exist. This can be likened to the way a lot of people dont even know about negs or what they may be up to.

quote:
Negative entities cause negative situations, but not all negative situations are caused by negative entities.

I agree, ive already said that in a previous post.

quote:
Articles like this are useful because we need to seek that point of balance -

I'm sorry but i still say the article is not helping BECAUSE *it does not take a balanced approach*. It does not even entertain the possibility that negs exist. And im sure the author did not write it in response to people being attacked by negs but *for people who are being negative*. Can you not see that important difference?

quote:
learn to be able to make a more educated analysis as to whether a problem really is internal or external.

But the article *does not do that* though. It blames it on the victim with no alternative, balanced, explanation. It basically says "Its all internal" with no balancing views of the other possibility of negs.

quote:
Therapists would have you believe that all such problems are internal. Some mystics, psychics or ministers would have you believe its all external. Lets not keep charging over that middle ground on our way from one side of the field to the other.

Nowhere did i say its all either internal or external. I made this clear when i said;

"Just because someone is being negative about life does not mean they are under psychic attack (which is what this forum is for). And just because someone is experiencing psychic attack does not mean they will automatically be negative."

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by Tayesin
 Since we did choose the various things that we have experienced so far in life, including all the millions of choices in all the moments that we have made.  So we are responsible for these things from that perspective.

I'm sorry but this is just a philisophical/spiritual viewpoint that is verging towards dogma. None of what you just said can be proven. Do nine year old children *choose to be raped*? I think not. Its ridiculous to even suggest such a thing and is insensitive to those who have suffered such things. It even suggest to the victim that they should feel guilty about being a victim because its what they chose to do, when obviously they didnt. Guilt is one of the ways negs eat into people because of the negative emotions it produces.

[SpectralDragon]

It is very true that negativity over long periods is very bad, but it is also true that(being positive, don't know why I said negative...)at wrong times can make a situation worse. Let's try to understand each other's viewpoints this time please people.[]

[Mick]

quote:Originally posted by James S
No McArthur, it's because this is a real life situation with real life consequences. Nowhere in the article is there anything mentioned about neg attacks. It's not about neg atacks - its about negativity.

Yes, it is about negativity which has a general application to all, although the terms positive and negative can have different context for different people. I do have a question as to why it is being roled out here in a specialist forum where its connotations are therefore more focused particularly considering recent topics but see below for debate comments. There are some here that try to investigate reported problems by questioning and analogy plus they attempt to give supportive feedback. This feedback as I see it does cover the fuller spectrum of percieved advice and in some cases some members here get actively involved in attempts to support people.
No one that is in the wide view/lateral thinking camp denies the importance of such stability of thinking and the security and well being that it brings and I think many have stated such either directly or as part of advice given.
Some participants are perhaps less enamoured of the thinking that lays the actions of others as their total responsibility which i believe has been expressed in earlier comments.

quote:Think about it, for every one person out there that has had genuine issues with negative spiritual entities, there are a dozen more who's only demons are their own pessimistic perceptions.

I could ask where these numbers come from but won't []

quote:...Articles like this are useful because we need to seek that point of balance - learn to be able to make a more educated analysis as to whether a problem really is internal or external. Therapists would have you believe that all such problems are internal. Some mystics, psychics or ministers would have you believe its all external. Lets not keep charging over that middle ground on our way from one side of the field to the other

I think valuable as all points should be tested, but rather than engaging in that debate this role out in a specialist forum is I suspect an attempt to highjack the debate in other topics. This article when challenged somewhat thoughtfully in some areas IMHO results in presumptive claims of hate and anger rather than debate It is this type of behaviour which in my opinion is polarising debate. I am not saying that similar does not happen from the other corner but in this example it is moderator initiated.

There are now some topics running where the wide view is being debated with some sound comments IMHO being made and being discussed. If the 'problem is self' people want to discuss then that is good and certainly welcomed by myself but lets keep the debate option open and contributary rather than polarised []

[SpectralDragon]

quote:You have trapped yourself in your own web of negativity.

This I like to call a pattern. Negative feeds negative, and thus a wheel is spun. You must break the pattern to be free, which is not easy to do.

Nice article BTW Nay [] Glad you found it.

This is not about Negs as it is inner demons, I don't see why everyone is throwing a fuss. Everyone needs to forget the last thread. An external neg attack has little if anything to do with this thread in my opinion.

[rhinegirl]

This is similar to how the fraudulant christian church operates. They tell people they are sinners and horrible people then they heap on the guilt and self-contempt.

Jessica

quote:Originally posted by McArthur

quote:Originally posted by Tayesin
 Since we did choose the various things that we have experienced so far in life, including all the millions of choices in all the moments that we have made.  So we are responsible for these things from that perspective.

I'm sorry but this is just a philisophical/spiritual viewpoint that is verging towards dogma. None of what you just said can be proven. Do nine year old children *choose to be raped*? I think not. Its ridiculous to even suggest such a thing and is insensitive to those who have suffered such things. It even suggest to the victim that they should feel guilty about being a victim because its what they chose to do, when obviously they didnt. Guilt is one of the ways negs eat into people because of the negative emotions it produces.

[Squeek]

quote:They're not sure what's causing their problems, they come onto a site like this and read about negs, then human nature leads them to that giant leap to the conclusion it must all be because of negs.

AHH you finally put into words my exact thoughts!  THANK you James!

Boy you have no idea how long I was thinking to try to phrase that.

~Squeek

[Haematite]

Hi[]
As I understood we're talking in this topic about the reasons (misfortunes)which makes people negative. Well, let us try to look at this problem through our soul's eyes. I mean that all our problems and sadness are coming from our unperfect bodies and egos...and our souls(our sacred and everlasting "core")is high enough to be bothered and to be stained by material problems. I know what I'm talking bout cause I've been in depression a lot of times years ago - until I realised that everything in that Universe has it's right place: misfortune sometimes helps us to develop more than happiness. I've suffered in my life, I've got my "lessons" and I don't regret cause I know that it had ment to happen and that's the best way... I really sorry bout people's sufferings but it's the way things happen - it's called Karma - and it's laws are always strict and fair. If I'd done bad things in previous life of mine I'm going to suffer in my present one...or maybe in my next ones too - until I purify myself and rise up to highest levels.
Be safe[]