Scientific explanation of telekinesis

[PyroPsion69]

Ahh, nothing makes my head hurt faster than trying to connect quantum with relative physics []. Now, nonphysical energy being converted into kinetic energy I think has something to do with the wavelength of matter (yes matter has wavelength), momentum, and uncertainty. I can't remember the equation right now, its in my chem book, I'll have to get back to you on it. But I know its doable, because you can calculate the frequency and wavelength of a moving object that has mass.

[Coffee]

I don't thing you can connect quantum physics to anything, since it is still in it's infantile stage and still doesn't connect to any other branch of physics including metaphysics.  

Plus, you're basing your theory on the assumption that spirits are made of energy.  There's no proof.

I don't see how spirits can be made of energy since energy and mass are easily transformed into eachother, but our spirit doesn't ever suddenly turn into mass.  Plus, the "energy" we feel with our spirit hands isn't ever picked up by high tech equipment during carefully controlled experiments.

Our spirit would have to be made of something other than energy and mass.

[beavis]

Quantum physics has to connect to something (in a modified form?) because it has some truth to it.

Energy is the only thing known to go at light speed (or above?). Spirits can exceed light speed. They can add kinetic energy to mass (telekinesis).

Everything that has ever been found has been proven to be convertible into anything else. Energy or mass can be converted to each other, or to space in a black hole. Since there has only been 1 kind of thing found so far, probably spirits are made of it too.

Spirits have been detected by Kirlian technology.

[Coffee]

What's kirlian technology?  Is that a star trek thing?

[beavis]

Kirlian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/health_/bio.htm

[Adkha]

quote:Originally posted by beavis

Quantum physics has to connect to something (in a modified form?) because it has some truth to it.

Energy is the only thing known to go at light speed (or above?). Spirits can exceed light speed. They can add kinetic energy to mass (telekinesis).

Engergy is the only thing known to go at light speed or faster? I dont think so man. Light is a form of energy...so energy can travel at lightspeed but only if this energy is in the form of light. Sound is also energy and also a wave...but the speed of sound does not compete with light speed...you can confirm me on that right:-)?
Let me know how you come up with that.
GREAT TOPIC BTW!

[beavis]

What you said about light does not contradict that quote. I didnt say energy ALWAYS goes at lightspeed.

The speed of sound is the speed of waves in MASS. Energy jumps from one atom to an other at the speed of light, then stays there a short time while the mass moves.

[volcomstone]

good post, despite the fact i barely read it,
what i know is, currently physics says we CAN'T move stuff with our mind,, even if we could it would be because of a detectable energy that is eminated from us

now for the science part, if there is no discernable energy that we can detect, then what the F*** is going on?
how can i spin that friggin psi-wheel?

well i have some theorys, one is that YOU'RE  A COMPLETE SCHIZOPHRENIC WITH MASS HALLUCINATIONS AND DELUSIONS OF GRANDUER

that said and done I think we are getting help from beings/forces beyond the comprehension of even the most enlightened human
I think we are getting help from something/someone from superior dimensions

We can't prove gravity exists, we haven't found the infamous graviton, gravity doesn't work with quantum physics

we know gravity exists, some physicists speculate that gravity permeates all dimensions as a force, i think we are experiencing gravity as a force from superior dimensions,

so why can we do this stuff? because we are interdimensional beings,
i think our chakras are specifically tuned into different dimensions
blah blah blah,

I don't think science will have any answer on such paranormal activity as most believe it is all make believe , and I used to think it was all make believe

i used to be so sure about such things, until less then 4 months ago when i discovered such things can occur, and do occur, and i can make them occur, and occurances are more than just coincidences ,and coincidences are more than just random chaos, and chaos has order, and order has chaos, and ying and yang and..... I need more sleep

[PyroPsion69]

A few things...

quote:what i know is, currently physics says we CAN'T move stuff with our mind,, even if we could it would be because of a detectable energy that is eminated from us

If I rember correctly, many strong telekinetics have been able to be picked up by electromagnetic field detectors. TK has a lot to do with the neuronetwork. What is a neuralogical pulse? The discharge of ions, or in other words, it generates a flux in the magnetic field (pulling out the big words []) So it doesn't surprize me in the least that TK is detectable by simple instruments. Heck, a psi wheel is a simple instrument of dectection right? If that doesn't suit you, try a compass!

quote:well i have some theorys, one is that YOU'RE A COMPLETE SCHIZOPHRENIC WITH MASS HALLUCINATIONS AND DELUSIONS OF GRANDUER

Ha, I think about this sometimes. But then I think well if thats the case then EVERYTHINGS a hallucination, and I can't do jack about it, so I might as well enjoy my insanity [].

quote:We can't prove gravity exists, we haven't found the infamous graviton, gravity doesn't work with quantum physics

Drop something. You just proved gravity exists. What I think you meant to say is, we can't prove what the carrier for it is (graviton or physical distortion). I favor a physical distortion theory personally because of relativity. Light is bent by gravity, time for the most part doesn't affect gravity, but gravity affects time. Time is a fourt h dimension, which means spacial dimensions take precedence over it (time operates in the field of space basically).

A lot of people think that time is some kind of ultimate constant, that you can't "turn back time" etc. I think this is quite wrong in fact. I've done psychic effects backwards in time (though I'm not sure what the odds were, but I'm somewhat confident the odds were against me in what I wanted to happen)

Coffee - In your sense of energy, I think you are thinking of it too specifically. You are thinking of basic energy, ie kinetic, potential, chemical, electrical, psionic, etc. But EVERYTHING is made of energy (the odds are in the favor that there is one universal medium). Take a magnetic field for instance. Normally, it is constantly given out. There is no source of energy required, yet it still influences things around it. When you place energy into the system, ie bring a magnet of similar charge next to it, the energy is stored and released as pushing the other magnet back. For some things, ie spiritual energy, you can't think in terms of "oh this is an energy force, it must be measurable by physical means, in the same way chemical energy or light energy can be measured" Its kind of like an underlying fabric to everything.

[volcomstone]

you make some valid arguements ,but I don't think telekinesis can only be summed up by the electromagnetic radiation that we emit'
if you research daniel douglas home , or the physicist crookes

you can see that his studies where specifically designed to negate any effects EM would have in the experiements

anyhow, I was just trying to show an example of gravity as something that science doesn't have a completer understanding
the only difference between gravity and psi, is that you experience gravity on a daily basis, but psi isn't experienced by every one so mainstream science will ignore it

If tk was simply and EM phenomenon, which Im not saying is what your claiming (?)  then mainstream science would have a vested interest in such things, mainly because its concievable that we can strengthen our affect on EM,  anyways i lost my point circle arguements abound, I need to furthur increase my skills with psi before I can have any definate answers as to what is possible with tk

anyhow, im a firm believer that practising psi has positive affects on your neurological functions and probally helps strengthen connections of neurons in your brain nervous system

[cube]

Beavis thanks for this inspiration!!

I have tried to recreate your experiment, I haven't had much luck spinning the foil but I have knocked it off the knife 3 times!

What I did was I put the foil thing on a dresser at the foot of my bed. I laid down in the bed, closed my eyes and did a mind blank for 15-30 seconds. I then began to think, "The universe is perfect. I am allowing."

I did that for maybe another 30 seconds or a minute. Then I would open my eyes and consider the perfectness of a universe in which the foil was knocked off the knife. I would do this cycle for maybe 3 - 5 minutes.

The first time I used a single thickness of foil to knock off. It took about 15 seconds after I opened my eyes for it to fall off.

The second time was also with a single thickness, it fell off about 3 seconds after I opened my eyes and looked at it.

I then used foil folded over 4 or 5 times in a square. I tried to spin it but couldn't get that to happen so I relaxed and closed my eyes and thought about how it would be nice if the foil fell off. My mind when blank after a bit and then it fell off!

I made sure to thank the foil for its help, during the experiment I let it know that we're in this together and that its help was appreciated.

I think I just need more practice visualizing what I want in order to spin it. It seems like it's mainly a matter of allowing which universe possibility you would like to select next.

[yombalula]

CORRECTIONS

FACT: Energy follows the path of least resistance.

Wrong! What is at minmum is the the Lagrangian. a combination of the Momentum energy nd the potential energy of the force in question.

FACT: Many paths exist other than the one we see in "reality". This is proven by the quantum double slit experiments.

RIGHT. The double slit experiment shows that matter/energy  behaves like waves, one formulation of is the many paths method.

FACT: Energy comes in waves and can be very spread out but have an extremely low probability of going on the far parts. (quantum physics)

Partially right: All photons, electrons etc have wave properties. IN the many paths method all possible paths are added up and summed to get the PROBABILITY of finding a photon or other particle.

THE SUBJECTIVE PART:

Spirits are energy, therefore they must follow the path of least resistance unless more energy is added. Kundalini, psi, ki, nonphysical energy, or whatever you want to call it, is energy.

Partially right: they are all bovine excrement. You can consider bovine excrement to be an energy only when you hurl it, which you do very well.

When we have more of this energy, we can go on a path with more resistance.

Sloggin through bovine excrement is hard but will lead only to the Dump!

The physical things I see around me are my current position in this huge mess of paths for energy. If I have more energy, I can go on a path that telekinesis occurs. If I didnt have much energy, I am forced to stay in a low-energy static environment, like most people do. If I have a lot of energy, I can go on a path that leads to astral.

WOWIIE!! I guess you don't understand energy very much The only Kundalini and asstral tuchas is in your head. If you blink real hard this goes away.

Yomba

[cube]

yombalula smells like a troll.

[Fat_Turkey]

The problem is that quantum physics doesn't really connect to any other form of physics, like an earlier reply said. But metaphysics isn't physics either. Meta means beyond. It's beyond physics people, it isn't physics. Stop trying to explain these things scientifically - you're throwing wrenches into the workings of other peoples' beliefs and it's rather annoying. The last thing I want is for my spirituality to be thwarted by science. That just makes life insignificant.

~FT

[Logic]

quote:Partially right: All photons, electrons etc have wave properties. IN the many paths method all possible paths are added up and summed to get the PROBABILITY of finding a photon or other particle.

The only evidence that photons exist as opposed to just light waves, is lights reaction to gravity. Light can be distorted and dragged into singularity by an apparent black hole, but "photons" still have no physical mass or weight, which makes them hard to be particles.

Electrons are also theoretical as particles which possess no definite physical characteristics. It is impossible to determine any solid properties and location of one, as it exists as a superposotion in multiple places as well as a superposition of rotations.

Photons and electrons exist in theory, as they are a "physical" representation of energy as matter.

[beavis]

Yombalula

FACT: Energy follows the path of least resistance.

Wrong! What is at minmum is the the Lagrangian. a combination of the Momentum energy and the potential energy of the force in question.

If you have a wire that splits into 2 wires, one with a resistor and the other just a wire, energy will follow the wire of least resistance. For groups of energy, I am right.

You are right about the Lagrangian. I hope I never have to calculate one of those formulas again! Its for calculations in curved spacetime.

But if energy is interfered with, like in the wire, instead of in nearly empty space, the resistance matters more, and that is usually when telekinesis is done (around lots of mass).

FACT: Energy comes in waves and can be very spread out but have an extremely low probability of going on the far parts. (quantum physics)

Partially right: All photons, electrons etc have wave properties. IN the many paths method all possible paths are added up and summed to get the PROBABILITY of finding a photon or other particle.

A linear perspective. All the paths could exist but we only see one (or a small number) of them. Photons and electrons dont have to be particles. They can be many-dimensional waves with exactly a standard amount of energy. The probability could describe which path we see.

Partially right: [spirits] are all bovine excrement. You can consider bovine excrement to be an energy only when you hurl it, which you do very well.

If spirits are bovine excrement, then watch this video where I (a spirit) move something while using my body to watch it move, and tell me what, other than a spirit, can cause it to move.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/file_library.asp?showmethefile=65&thatcat=18&thiscat=Miscellaneous
You will probably obey the commandments of the church of science to say I must have faked it, even though you dont see any flaws in the video and it would be hard to fake.

The physical things I see around me are my current position in this huge mess of paths for energy. If I have more energy, I can go on a path that telekinesis occurs. If I didnt have much energy, I am forced to stay in a low-energy static environment, like most people do. If I have a lot of energy, I can go on a path that leads to astral.

WOWIIE!! I guess you don't understand energy very much The only Kundalini and asstral tuchas is in your head. If you blink real hard this goes away.

If you blink real hard, you look at the physical things around you, and they distract you from the subtle energies of astral, so it looks like it disappears as a halucination would. Its real.







Fat_Turkey The problem is that quantum physics doesn't really connect to any other form of physics

Quantum physics is an approximate description of reality. Relativity and other physics models are approximate descriptions of reality. Therefore quantum physics is an approximate description of relativity.

But metaphysics isn't physics either. Meta means beyond. It's beyond physics people, it isn't physics.

100 years ago, curved space was metaphysics because it was beyond Newton.

Stop trying to explain these things scientifically - you're throwing wrenches into the workings of other peoples' beliefs and it's rather annoying. The last thing I want is for my spirituality to be thwarted by science. That just makes life insignificant.

I'm not forcing you to believe my theories, and you are free to never read the thread again, so stop complaining. If they contradict your beliefs, then you must choose your beliefs or my theories, and feeling threatened implies you are tempted to believe my theories. Otherwise you would have saw it as such an insane theory that its not worth your time to think about it because its obviously false.

Why do you think this stuff cant be described and figured out? Answers like "because god said so" are not good enough.

[Ybom]

I see the problem now beavis. It isn't because of anything that's metaphysical today. Metaphysics in theory is a category. People put things in it they cannot explain. When curved space couldn't be explained, it was put there. They then realized what curved space was exactly and changed it's category.

Therefore (beavis and Fat_Turkey) you are both correct or both wrong depending on how you look at what you're talking about. The things inside the metaphysical category today are physical. The problem is there isn't enough scientific knowledge of them to make them sound theories to rules of the physical. That's why they're described as something indescribable, aka metaphysical. As soon as scientists can create results to a point of utter belief that no one can deny then they will move to the physics category and be further tested most likely.

Now you both need to decide if you're talking about the metaphysical category, or the things inside the metaphysical category (at this point in time). There's quite a big difference; one is just a box and the other is the items in the box.


Now as to why this stuff cannot be figured out. There's infinity+ answers to this question you pose to us beavis. Some would include: "because God said so", "because the Devil said so", "because the people of Nibiru say so", "because Science says these things aren't possible", "because John Denver said so", and my favorite "because it's not our time to know what these things are yet". The reason why I think this is still paranormal and beyond our grasp is for the above reasons, combined, plus the fact that society limits us from fear and opression. However, do we kill society, which brings us closer and pushes us apart at the same time? Or do we accept society and work around it? I think the better answer is B.

[Hyperblu]

Why is it easier to go on a path of higher energy when dreaming?
what i think is that  its programmed into our brains.
most ppl dont know what they get by sleeping. its like we have a lots of thing in our lives that  we dont know why it is so or why we  do it.... but we STILL do those thing unconsciously.
we here are aware about our energies and energy-body but there is ppl who  have no idea about this.

so its like a pit-stop for us all. we just do cause its a ground to us.
we here  know other ways to get energy and so on. but there is ppl who dont know those ways.

yeah... hope you get my point []

[beavis]

FACT: Energy follows the path of least resistance.

FACT: Many paths exist other than the one we see in "reality". This is proven by the quantum double slit experiments.

FACT: Energy comes in waves and can be very spread out but have an extremely low probability of going on the far parts. (quantum physics)

THE SUBJECTIVE PART:

Spirits are energy, therefore they must follow the path of least resistance unless more energy is added. Kundalini, psi, ki, nonphysical energy, or whatever you want to call it, is energy. When we have more of this energy, we can go on a path with more resistance.

The physical things I see around me are my current position in this huge mess of paths for energy. If I have more energy, I can go on a path that telekinesis occurs. If I didnt have much energy, I am forced to stay in a low-energy static environment, like most people do. If I have a lot of energy, I can go on a path that leads to astral.

I dont know how or if new paths are created.

Why is it easier to go on a path of higher energy when dreaming? Maybe we waste our energy while awake. Any other theories on this?

If you give energy to everything around you except the path you want to follow, it will be the path of least resistance, and you will effortlessly be pulled along it. Because you will then have low energy, it is likely that you will be in a path of lowest energy, and more energy will come to you to refill your supply. In other words, give energy to what you hate, and you will avoid it.

Its more efficient to give energy to your current path. Because energy does not like to be in too high a density (more resistance) the path of least resistance will become (randomly) something other than your current path. Its more efficient because you only give energy to 1 path instead of many. In other words, like being where you are, and it will change. Hate it and it will remain the same.

You can always follow a path that isnt exactly the same as a path that already exists because of fact number 3. When you traverse that path, some of your energy might be left there, which creates a new path. Expansion of consciousness.