Now, it has gone to my attention that some people think that time is a perception
I am not against anyone that thinks that, but the reason I disagree with this theory is because
If time is a perception in our heads, that means length has to be a perception also but that cannot be possible,
because if it were possible than we could travel great distances with just one footstep!
Also, time and length are technically artificial, in a way.. because we "made" time and we "made" length, now; some people
confuse are time (like 12:37 PM) with REAL TIME (live things occurring all at once, love, hatred, and so on.)
So that being said, that means that most things would have to be a perception, for instance: math
A universal language that anyone can/should understand; one pencil is still ONE pencil in other languages, it wont be 324 pencils, it would still be 1 pencil.
So we cannot say that is a perception either, because its not something in your head, a pencil is right in front of you and its still ONE pencil.
Length: we measure it in ft, cm , mm, m and many different sort of categories for length, if things are a perception in our head than explain to me why is it that when I take one step forward, I don't travel across the ocean and only travel IN FRONT of where I was originally stationed.
Everyone can believe what they want but if time can be a perception in our head.. well than we "control" physics.. which we are not even capable of doing.. (yet :evil:)
Again, as I mentioned before, I am not against anyone who believes that time is a perception, I am just explain my theory on why I think it is not.
Have a good day! :-P
when your in shock like in an accident it all goes in slow motion it doesn't change the amount of time it takes for the earth to go around the sun but it is perception.
:NoY:
LoL
Dude...
You're going all over the place. :)
The best "description" of what time is that I've heard comes from Tom Campbell.
Time is a property of this reality frame. It's required for "things" (actions) to occur in sequence. You can't have a sequence without time.
Time is measured in delta-T's... the smallest delta-T within this reality frame being equal to one unit of time. Each reality frame has it's own unique delta-T.
The way humans "measure" time is a creation/invention... hours, minutes, second, etc...
Time itself is a property of our reality frame and has to exist, as I mentioned above, for a sequence of events to occur.
Time is only a "perception in your head (or consciousness?)" in as much as our consciousness is interpreting what it's experiencing through the sequence of events occurring due to each tick of that delta-T.
Now, onto your next thought... about perception.
You're talking mostly in semantics and definitions.
As for your connection of Perception to Length...
Our "one step" is only equal to "one length of a step we can take" because of the rules governing this physical reality. Rules state that if we want to from "here" to "there" we need to move our physical bodies accordingly.
In some reality frames, this isn't the case... and movement is as simple as a thought... and at the speed of a thought. UNLESS you've imposed the belief that to get from A to B you have to "move your body there somehow".
I wonder if any of that made any sense. ROFL
Time is a complicated thing. Our concept of time is based around the earth rotating around the sun, and other natural cycles. What time really is is the change or movement of matter. The essential part is, how, if you look at the concept in a purely physical way, you can't reverse it. Time can't go backwards.
In the astral, "time travel" exists. Because you can choose in what "time" you are, there really is no time. Only duration, and duration is purely perception.
The only reason we think time exists is because in this physical, time doesn't usually go back, and you don't usually physically go back in time.
That's my idea about it anyway :)
Quote from: Ryan_ on September 01, 2011, 16:01:37
LoL
Dude...
You're going all over the place. :)
The best "description" of what time is that I've heard comes from Tom Campbell.
Time is a property of this reality frame. It's required for "things" (actions) to occur in sequence. You can't have a sequence without time.
Time is measured in delta-T's... the smallest delta-T within this reality frame being equal to one unit of time. Each reality frame has it's own unique delta-T.
The way humans "measure" time is a creation/invention... hours, minutes, second, etc...
Time itself is a property of our reality frame and has to exist, as I mentioned above, for a sequence of events to occur.
Time is only a "perception in your head (or consciousness?)" in as much as our consciousness is interpreting what it's experiencing through the sequence of events occurring due to each tick of that delta-T.
Now, onto your next thought... about perception.
You're talking mostly in semantics and definitions.
As for your connection of Perception to Length...
Our "one step" is only equal to "one length of a step we can take" because of the rules governing this physical reality. Rules state that if we want to from "here" to "there" we need to move our physical bodies accordingly.
In some reality frames, this isn't the case... and movement is as simple as a thought... and at the speed of a thought. UNLESS you've imposed the belief that to get from A to B you have to "move your body there somehow".
I wonder if any of that made any sense. ROFL
I understand the part about the length, you lost me after delta-T lol
Quote from: Orion- on September 01, 2011, 16:03:52
Time is a complicated thing. Our concept of time is based around the earth rotating around the sun, and other natural cycles. What time really is is the change or movement of matter. The essential part is, how, if you look at the concept in a purely physical way, you can't reverse it. Time can't go backwards.
In the astral, "time travel" exists. Because you can choose in what "time" you are, there really is no time. Only duration, and duration is purely perception.
The only reason we think time exists is because in this physical, time doesn't usually go back, and you don't usually physically go back in time.
That's my idea about it anyway :)
Well "time travel" isn't necessarily time travel without going to the past.. which isn't possible.. in a way, by that I mean that you can go back in time/relive a memory but you can't change anything in it.. I think (its anyone's guess) I have posted this before:
If you got a C on a test but wanted a A+
but you didn't want to wait for the next test, and you go back in time to fix that C,
you tell yourself the answers to the test and then you go back to the future.. Everything mentioned in bold cannot be possible, even for the astral realm, why? because if you went back in time to fix something
then that means that in the future there was nothing to fix!
So you went back in time for nothing!
If you don't understand.. tell me I will make a more simple story :-D
Well it might be possible.. if you have a car that runs on plutonium and your friends with a crazy scientist :-)
(back to the future anyone :D?)
T is a physical unit of time.
Delta is usually used for change. So for example delta T would be T end - T begin. See it like a timeframe, a period of time.
Quote from: SirMike on September 01, 2011, 16:14:04
Well "time travel" isn't necessarily time travel without going to the past.. which isn't possible.. in a way, by that I mean that you can go back in time/relive a memory but you can't change anything in it.. I think (its anyone's guess) I have posted this before:
If you got a C on a test but wanted a A+
but you didn't want to wait for the next test, and you go back in time to fix that C,
you tell yourself the answers to the test and then you go back to the future..
Everything mentioned in bold cannot be possible, even for the astral realm, why? because if you went back in time to fix something
then that means that in the future there was nothing to fix!
So you went back in time for nothing!
If you don't understand.. tell me I will make a more simple story :-D
Well, see it like this. If I go back in time to tell myself something, did I change time? Or was what I did always meant to happen?
And I do believe "time travel" is possible in the astral, because like I said, there's not really time. Only duration.
A period of time?
A duration in time?
You said duration is purely a perception in our head, that being said - how can a period in time be real because if a duration in time supposedly isn't real.. lol I see a paradox forming o_O
It would seem as if you contradicted yourself there, buddy.. :?
Any minute now a black hole will suck earth into it because we made a paradox :o RUN!!
Quote from: Orion- on September 01, 2011, 16:15:47
T is a physical unit of time.
Delta is usually used for change. So for example delta T would be T end - T begin. See it like a timeframe, a period of time.
Quote from: Orion- on September 01, 2011, 16:17:50
Well, see it like this. If I go back in time to tell myself something, did I change time? Or was what I did always meant to happen?
And I do believe "time travel" is possible in the astral, because like I said, there's not really time. Only duration.
Well it all depends on what you told yourself, if you tell yourself how he will die, and your warning him.. well than that's a WHOLE different story o.O
a man loads a gun, and then goes back in time and shoots himself before he loads the gun
so the question is how did he shoot himself with an unloaded gun,
the only answer is parallel universes
:NoY:
Quote from: SirMike on September 01, 2011, 16:22:11
A period of time?
A duration in time?
You said duration is purely a perception in our head, that being said - how can a period in time be real because if a duration in time supposedly isn't real.. lol I see a paradox forming o_O
It would seem as if you contradicted yourself there, buddy.. :?
Any minute now a black hole will suck earth into it because we made a paradox :o RUN!!
We can measure duration with computers, or by looking at the sun, moon, etc. This is done by measuring a change of the position of matter. If we use a stopwatch to measure the 100m athletics competition, then it will give the same time as a different stopwatch. However, the duration of time is a perception. The devices will give the same measurements, but for us it isn't the same. Imagine something boring, like waiting for the bus. It takes 15 minutes, but feels like a lot more. Or imagine kissing the one you love for the first time, it will feel like time stopped. Or imagine playing a computer game for those 15 minutes, instead of waiting on the bus. It will be over in no time.
QuoteWell it all depends on what you told yourself, if you tell yourself how he will die, and your warning him.. well than that's a WHOLE different story o.O
But if I tell myself how I will die, then I will avoid it and I won't die. This means that I was supposed to prevent my death, which would mean that I didn't die.
Quote from: NoY on September 01, 2011, 16:30:16
a man loads a gun, and then goes back in time and shoots himself before he loads the gun
so the question is how did he shoot himself with an unloaded gun,
the only answer is parallel universes
:NoY:
I don't really believe in parallel universes, but I guess we can't know. If there are none, then doing this will not be possible. It wouldn't happen.
I don't know if anything can go back in time at the macro level (I think y'all have described the Fermi paradox and the Grandfather paradox, so I'll skip over it) but my understanding is that Quantum Entanglement can be explained by retrocausality, possibly showing that at the quantum scale, particles do go back in time. Or something like that.
What if time really is just perception? For example, two days ago I entered the phase and thought I was there for longer than what I had actually been. When I returned to wakefulness I looked at the clock and relived the entire experience. I posted my results on OBE4u counting exits and re-entries. I had been in the phase just under a minute. Perception of time there is different it seems. The phase reality seems to be more congruent with "quantum logic" than human logic and physical laws anyway...
Time is a perception.. Technically, anyone with enough practice, could use their Merkaba to teleport anywhere in the universe instantly.. :D
Quote from: HiRes on September 01, 2011, 20:24:29
Time is a perception.. Technically, anyone with enough practice, could use their Merkaba to teleport anywhere in the universe instantly.. :D
If that was supported by our ruleset, which it doesn't look to be. :)
Quote from: Orion- on September 01, 2011, 16:31:53
We can measure duration with computers, or by looking at the sun, moon, etc. This is done by measuring a change of the position of matter. If we use a stopwatch to measure the 100m athletics competition, then it will give the same time as a different stopwatch. However, the duration of time is a perception. The devices will give the same measurements, but for us it isn't the same. Imagine something boring, like waiting for the bus. It takes 15 minutes, but feels like a lot more. Or imagine kissing the one you love for the first time, it will feel like time stopped. Or imagine playing a computer game for those 15 minutes, instead of waiting on the bus. It will be over in no time.
But if I tell myself how I will die, then I will avoid it and I won't die. This means that I was supposed to prevent my death, which would mean that I didn't die.
But if you didn't die explain to me why would you go back to the past and tell yourself you will die :P? Because if you tell yourself how you are going to die you will avoid death so then why go back to the past and change it if it never happend.. see what I did there 8-)
Hrmm.. if there was no perception of any events happening in ANY order (backward, forwads, sideways.. whatever) then there would be no need to know what "time" is.. "Time" is a label for a phenomenon that allows us to perceive events. It is not dictated by perception but without perception there isn't any need to "label" it so it ceases to exist as far as we are concerned. Time only exists when we perceive it and ceases to exist when we don't. It's not a tangible thing. The clock that ticks the seconds, minutes and hours (perceivable events) is tangible yes.. but even though we can perceive the events of the clock, we can still not perceive time itself.
Time is an attribute of causality but is not causality itself.
Quote from: light487 on September 02, 2011, 01:52:44
Hrmm.. if there was no perception of any events happening in ANY order (backward, forwads, sideways.. whatever) then there would be no need to know what "time" is.. "Time" is a label for a phenomenon that allows us to perceive events. It is not dictated by perception but without perception there isn't any need to "label" it so it ceases to exist as far as we are concerned. Time only exists when we perceive it and ceases to exist when we don't. It's not a tangible thing. The clock that ticks the seconds, minutes and hours (perceivable events) is tangible yes.. but even though we can perceive the events of the clock, we can still not perceive time itself.
Time is an attribute of causality but is not causality itself.
Are you saying that time does not exist at all?
Because if that being said, segments would be happening simultaneously (like someone dieing even though they are alive, someone inventing the light bulb even though its invented, and so on)
You did mention this in your post, so I'm just trying to understand it.. time is one complex mofo :lol:
I beleive our own personal time is perception.
Though on a wider basis I beleve it would be stationery/frozen.
Look around you.. nothing is moving its all lumps of immovable matter in various shapes and sizes that can be knocked around. Though 'it' doesnt move.
There is more than one way of perceiving things. At one level, time is definite and measurable. At another level, it may not exist at all. Both can be right.
On a fictional level, I like how in the Dark Tower series time speeds up and slows down as the world slowly falls apart.
Well, Einstein proved er, demonstrated that time slows down and speeds up depending on how fast you're going (and later on experiments backed him up on it)- the experiment of the airplane going at different altitudes and the experiment of the cosmic particles hitting the surface of the earth come to mind- so I wouldn't say it's a matter of perception, unless you consider matter to be also perception. I would say that time is a property of matter/energy, and a measurement of such. I don't know that means it's something, but if it can be bent...
Quote from: Ryan_ on September 01, 2011, 20:28:04
If that was supported by our ruleset, which it doesn't look to be. :)
our own rule set? o.o; whats that mean..
ADHD people are faster in their thoughts, so technically time is slowed down to them.. but it seems like they are sped up to us :D
That could be an example of perception
Quote from: HiRes on September 03, 2011, 17:09:52
ADHD people are faster in their thoughts, so technically time is slowed down to them.. but it seems like they are sped up to us :D
That could be an example of perception
There appears to be a reason for this too as I have pointed out previously in the lottery thread:
"Here is some curious conclusions that professors at Harvard and Boston universities recently arrived at:
When humans started to move out of Africa to explore the rest of the world, evolution mutated and held on to a gene associated with risk-taking and the will to be adventurous - the DRD4 gene. Evidence shows that the distribution of the two main alleles (versions) of the gene and the ancient migration patterns appear to be congruent. The mutations that followed do not seem random at all and seem to have purpose...
Each allele appear to mark specific personality traits in people. While a 4R allele is linked to prudent individuals, the 7R and 2R ones seem to indicate more impulsive behaviour in others. It is believed that individuals that possess the latter versions coped with dangerous situations a lot better and were more capable of surviving and reproducing under more challenging conditions.
Thus it was concluded that mass migration can influence our genetic make-up and specifically modify it in the evolutionary scale. Apparently, the 7R allele arose as a rare mutation 50,000 years ago after we left our home continent and spread throughout the world. Later, the 2R modified version emerged in Asia.
More interestingly, those that have been diagnosed with ADHD are twice as likely to have the 7R allele. Perhaps some of the symptoms that we think indicate a "disorder" - such as quick movements and rapid shifts in focus - are actually survival traits from natural selection."
Quote from: Summerlander on September 03, 2011, 17:41:01
There appears to be a reason for this too as I have pointed out previously in the lottery thread:
"Here is some curious conclusions that professors at Harvard and Boston universities recently arrived at:
When humans started to move out of Africa to explore the rest of the world, evolution mutated and held on to a gene associated with risk-taking and the will to be adventurous - the DRD4 gene. Evidence shows that the distribution of the two main alleles (versions) of the gene and the ancient migration patterns appear to be congruent. The mutations that followed do not seem random at all and seem to have purpose...
Each allele appear to mark specific personality traits in people. While a 4R allele is linked to prudent individuals, the 7R and 2R ones seem to indicate more impulsive behaviour in others. It is believed that individuals that possess the latter versions coped with dangerous situations a lot better and were more capable of surviving and reproducing under more challenging conditions.
Thus it was concluded that mass migration can influence our genetic make-up and specifically modify it in the evolutionary scale. Apparently, the 7R allele arose as a rare mutation 50,000 years ago after we left our home continent and spread throughout the world. Later, the 2R modified version emerged in Asia.
More interestingly, those that have been diagnosed with ADHD are twice as likely to have the 7R allele. Perhaps some of the symptoms that we think indicate a "disorder" - such as quick movements and rapid shifts in focus - are actually survival traits from natural selection."
I have to say that makes perfect sense :D and honestly.. more and more kids are showing up with ADD or ADHD.. soo I think we are about to evolve and everyone will be some form of ADD or ADHD :P.. more like everyone will be psychic and able to do as the please.. WITH PRACTICE OF PSYCHIC ENERGIES.. xD not just oh hey i am psychic :O
Quote from: HiRes on September 03, 2011, 20:46:44
I think we are about to evolve and everyone will be some form of ADD or ADHD :P..
I don't know about that, I think people who have/had ADD or ADHD when they are children :wink:
lose it as they grow older, since the brain is developing at faster/slower rates..
everyone is different
People seem to think of time as a line. It's really more of a sphere of interlinking, twisting, turning lines tied around each other. All of time is happening right now, at this very instance. It is hard to explain, but it is just perception. What you did yesterday, you are still doing. What you will do tomorrow, you already did.
The Doctor from Dr Who says it is a "wibbly wobbly time thingy".. hehe.. a good summation really. I like the elipse/circular concept of time in that you can theoreticaly come back around, following the same "forward" direction, and meet back up with yourself as you come around and "overtake" yourself...
Quote from: kcsguniverse on September 29, 2011, 20:19:36
People seem to think of time as a line. It's really more of a sphere of interlinking, twisting, turning lines tied around each other. All of time is happening right now, at this very instance. It is hard to explain, but it is just perception. What you did yesterday, you are still doing. What you will do tomorrow, you already did.
What, I don't think so :/
That means that if I died tomorrow I would be dead right now, but that's not true because I am very lively and writing this post.
Quote from: SirMike on September 30, 2011, 00:19:44
What, I don't think so :/
That means that if I died tomorrow I would be dead right now, but that's not true because I am very lively and writing this post.
It means that you are not-born, alive, and dead all at the same time. Try not to think of things in those terms though because there is "existence" before and after in-human experiences.. before "birth" and after "death".. everything is happening at the same time. Using the circle concept I mentioned before helps with this because you are still moving in a serial "direction" as per your objective perception but the ability to "come back around again" allows for infinite time.
Quote from: SirMike on September 30, 2011, 00:19:44
What, I don't think so :/
That means that if I died tomorrow I would be dead right now, but that's not true because I am very lively and writing this post.
What does "being alive" mean?
To humans.. it means being able to interact with this physical reality in a physical body.
Once you can't do that anymore permanently, you're no longer alive.
From my experiences, there is no "alive" or "dead"... we're just consciousness, and we just exist as such. We're, for the most part, immortal.
There's an old Sun Ra song with a repeating line: "The world has already ended, haven't you figured that out yet?"
Quote from: SirMike on September 01, 2011, 15:49:38
Now, it has gone to my attention that some people think that time is a perception
I am not against anyone that thinks that, but the reason I disagree with this theory is because
If time is a perception in our heads, that means length has to be a perception also but that cannot be possible,
because if it were possible than we could travel great distances with just one footstep!
Also, time and length are technically artificial, in a way.. because we "made" time and we "made" length, now; some people
confuse are time (like 12:37 PM) with REAL TIME (live things occurring all at once, love, hatred, and so on.)
So that being said, that means that most things would have to be a perception, for instance: math
A universal language that anyone can/should understand; one pencil is still ONE pencil in other languages, it wont be 324 pencils, it would still be 1 pencil.
So we cannot say that is a perception either, because its not something in your head, a pencil is right in front of you and its still ONE pencil.
Length: we measure it in ft, cm , mm, m and many different sort of categories for length, if things are a perception in our head than explain to me why is it that when I take one step forward, I don't travel across the ocean and only travel IN FRONT of where I was originally stationed.
Everyone can believe what they want but if time can be a perception in our head.. well than we "control" physics.. which we are not even capable of doing.. (yet :evil:)
Again, as I mentioned before, I am not against anyone who believes that time is a perception, I am just explain my theory on why I think it is not.
Have a good day! :-P
Length is used to measure objects in space, not time. The distance between two objects can be measured with a measuring instrument (i.e. ruler) but how do you measure the distance between two points in time?
Where an object was yesterday and where it is today is not the same point in space. You have to take into account the gravitational orbit of the planet around its sun, as well as the distance created by the expansion of the Universe. Therefore, the object yesterday that hasn’t moved, has technically moved millions of miles through space. Thus concluding that time is not artificial.
Quote from: kurtykurt42 on September 30, 2011, 14:13:59
Length is used to measure objects in space, not time. The distance between two objects can be measured with a measuring instrument (i.e. ruler) but how do you measure the distance between two points in time?
Where an object was yesterday and where it is today is not the same point in space. You have to take into account the gravitational orbit of the planet around its sun, as well as the distance created by the expansion of the Universe. Therefore, the object yesterday that hasn't moved, has technically moved millions of miles through space. Thus concluding that time is not artificial.
By artificial I mean like 12:51 AM or Pacific Standard Time. We made these specific times up so we can use them for are regular lives. I'm not the one to say the universe expands because I fairly don't know that it does or that it doesn't, that being said; I don't take it into account, BUT if it did it would still stay in the same place- I say this because if you imagine a circle and in the center there is a red dot, as the circle gets bigger the red dot is still in the center so that is why I do not take universal expansion into account. As for measuring distance with time, I do not recall saying anything about that.
Hi,
Theres the new thing on the expanding universe,all matter is also expanding and this includes inter atomic distances too. If its real then charge between counterparts will weaken given time then matter itself cannot exist.
Ive not got any links to this text, I found it and thought yep...mmmmm...