Belief Overhaul - a new beginning

[jilola]

You mentioned one belief that many people still hold so dear and close to heart and that causes everybody else all the trouble in the world.
It's a two sided thing actually. On one hand poeple feel that it's necessary for them to correct or disprove someone else's beliefs. On the other hand we tend to feel that we have to somehow accommodate their beliefs ito ours to feel our own beliefs validated.
This causes people to feel offended when someone doesn't share their personal beliefs and stops us from fully embracing our for the fear of offending someone.
I had this on my 'list' for ages until I started to question not only my beliefs but also myself.

I for one would like to hear about your experience.

2cents

jouni

[James S]

Hi Jouni,

Thanks, I'm glad you want to here more of this. You're definitely one of the people whose input I value on this forum.

I didn't really know at first wether I should be making anything of this to others as it is something personal, but I guess the same could be said for a lot of experiences posted on this site. This has meant so much to me I just want to talk about it.

Thanks for your words of wisdom. Well, I'll post this, as I shouldn't be afraid to do so, and I suppose it's up to others if they want to feel offended. I'm happy in what I believe, and it all works for me now.

Basically, I have been learning the ways of Christianity since I was 17 when I was led to believe giving my heart to Jesus was the right thing to do. Obviously at the time I was looking for something spiritual, as my mind had always wandered in that direction. For all the years that followed I'd go through the motions of following the ways of the Lord, being baptised, learning to work with the spirit, etc. I never really questioned it as I had so many friends, and my ex-wife, around me all the time telling me this is the right thing to do, this is the true way and the only way. The thing was I never really felt satisfied. There was a part of me wanting something other than what I was being taught, and as soon as I approached a minister for guidance on this, that something else was instantly labelled the deception of the devil, and they prayed over me.

A few years before I became a Christian I'd had a mind blowing experience where I actually had some control of an electrical storm and could guide lightning, show it where to strike. This happened 9 times in a row so I knew there was no coincidence. Since then I'd fell that I was able to raise & calm the wind at certain times, and it did happen (no not the kind of wind from eating too many baked beans http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> ). I had thought these experiences were to do with telekinesis, but recently I've realised that it was Nature letting me have some fun with her, because she wanted me to get to know her (thanks McArthur for your input there).

That now has become the core of my belief – the spirit of nature. The vision I had confirmed this for me, as I did not know wether I was to believe in the spirit of nature, or of the cosmos, or God or what. Nature's spirit came to me in the personification of a woman, who appeared in the prime of her life, wearing a long dress of mottled greens and blues, and fair skinned with light coloured hair that seemed to have in it blond and red and brown, light coloured eyes, and a hood or halo (not sure) of lighter greens & blues. I know today's popular image of Gaia doesn't fit this, but I guess it's up to Nature how she wants to appear to someone. I asked her how should I treat her, do I worship her or what? She told me not to worship her, but to love her. That's not hard, I always have loved her. Every time I look at a beautiful sunrise or sunset, take a walk in a forest or smell a flower.

This encounter filled me with greater peace and joy than I can remember. I always had believed in nature, she always had been looking out for me. It made sense.
I do not disbelieve or reject Jesus or God. Jesus has been a great source of wisdom and inspiration for me, but I've never had any personal experiences that prove to me that they are what I was supposed to believe they are. Some people have had personal encounters with God, and their belief and faith in him is strong. It was never so for me.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell, ok, a BIG nutshell.

Thanks for your time Jouni and all.

BTW,
After the vision I felt a kind of aftersickness, and needed to get something sweet into me, as if I'd burned off too much energy. Has anybody had this before?



James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[jilola]

Took a bit of courage questioning the beliefs of you and everyone else around you.

She (spirit of nature that is) said something very important that people of all beliefs should pay close heed to. The spirits that guide us, the God that created us, the nature that surrounds us and gives us life, whatever the belief, don't want us to worship them. Any entity worth folloowing and paying attention to shouldn't require worship but rather ask for love and respect.
I've encountered the spirit of nature as well, not as a personified vision (I've always been more of a feeler than seer. At least until reccently) but rather as a dramatic feeling in the nature.

As for the need for energy, great changes means great changes in energy be the change intellectual or spiritual. So I've had the same feeling after big events in my life.

Thanks for sharing the insights and beliefs. I'm sure others will find direction and inspiration in them.

2cents

jouni

[James S]

Thanks for the encouragement Jouni. I was hesitant about detailing the change in my beliefs.

I used to sometimes feel a little jealous of those around me who had truly been touched by God, and felt the love in his presence, and could give that love back to him. Its funny how I now feel a love for the spirit of nature in the way I was supposed to feel about God, but never really did. I also feel her love for me in a very strong sense. This I also was supposed to feel from God, but never quite got it. I just feel nature's spirit is so happy with me.

I guess this is the path I was meant to take from a long time ago.
If God is the ultimate creator, I don't see that he would be unhappy in my choice, as all paths would eventually lead to him anyway.

Thanks also for the encouragement about my energy levels. With the way I feel now I wouldn't be surprised if a few blockages have been cleared.  I have made an effort to study RB's N.E.W. I've managed to really make the joints in my feet hurt. I'm taking that as a good sign.

Thanks again for your 2 cents worth Jouni. I really appreciate you sitting and reading my thoughts, and posting your helpful words.



James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[Tisha]

Wow James . . . and thanks for sharing!

Tisha

"As Above, So Below"

[James S]

Hi Tisha,
Thanks for stopping by.
I know this is probably not of much interest to many, but it was a big deal for me. It's nice to have been able to share it, and have a few take an interest.

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[jilola]

What's funny in these sorts of experiences is when one looks back after one.
I used to wonder what the big deal was when folks around me "found God" as they put is. I just couldn't see it but that turned out to be just because their way wasn't one one for me.
Now that I've had similar experiences I can understand what their experiences meant for them. The sad thing is is that there is no way to communicate with them in a meaningful way. They are too closed in on their collective experience that they cannot acknowledge that the same thing ncan be experiences in a multitude of ways none of which is the one and only right way.
One of the wonders in the world is that there are people willing to share and accept other beliefs event if they donät share them.

2cents

jouni

[James S]

You know, your sentiments are quite like someone else's on this forum that I had a conversation with recently.
I agree with you.

If there are enough people around you telling you all the time that "this way is the only way", it becomes easy to stop questioning if the beliefs you've been taught are right for you . Independent thinking in this regard tends be frowned upon. (is that a little harsh?).  

Jouni, If you don't mind telling me, what are your experiences? What belief have they led you to?

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[jilola]

Not harsh enough I think. Truly independent thinking that goes against the norm of the surrounding society is stomped on with big large boots. People tend to cross the fence where it's the lowest and the surrounding society and value system helps us do exactly that . Anything else is made difficult - maybe not I'm an overt way but the underlying current goes against exploring other possibilities and beliefs.

My experiences are rather introverted in the way that they don't really include any visible entity or symbolism, rather an internal idea or a certain mood change that becomes revelative in quality.
I'll think about the experiences and see if I can come up with a way of conveying them. I'll post (if it makes sense) or PM (if I ramble) depending on how it comes out. Ok?

2cents

jouni

[James S]

Unfortunate but true. The sad thing is it has been this way for a VERY long time. Popular beliefs lend power to those who govern them. It's that power that makes it so hard to go outside the norm.

Experiences based on feelings can be as strong if not more so than ones seen. Except for the strongest ones, visions can fade. That which you feel is always with you. I'm blessed that I feel the presence of nature's spirit almost constantly.

As to how you put it, hey, from a rambler - go for it! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[General-Army]

I sort of always had a disbeliefe in a god or any god, but when i learned about planes it cleared it up, but i still disbelieve them. But your religious vision thing is the most clear one for me. I always winde up misinterpreting something, so tell me if i do, i always disbelieved in any god, i always would say im christian because  i knew i would get made fun of and a bad reputation for being athiest. But i always belived in treating others right, helping others, and i always believed that when you died, you just stayed where you were and contacted other spirits, that was before i learned of the astral and the realms. But now, i think, that when you die, you go to become who you were in the astral. The one who you are in the astral is a person like us, but more intelligent, or have more of a meaning. Taking over a person was like trying to reach people who you never were able to contact before because you were basicly dead. I dont necesarily think parents teach their children what they are in life, or else right now i would want to hurt women and never get married and wouldnt want to help and teach my children. Im thinking maybe what you are now is a refelction to somewhat a way you were in the astral of your self. Tell me what u think of this.

Every man has their fear of dieing, whether it be of pain or not knowing where you are going, however, mine is the family, memories, and good times i leave behind.

[James S]

I think you've got some good points there General-Army.

I'll see if I can follow with some thought's based on my understanding, or as Jouni appropriately puts it - IMHO....

Believing in or disbelieving God really is a personal choice. It should depend on what spiritual forces have touched you through your life, not what people tell you to believe. For me God didn't touch me, Nature did. I never had any other spirit being touch me the way nature's concsiousness did. I realise now she'd been trying for years so I guess it couldn't really miss. It was a "revelation" as I believe people look for in religions. Even if it didn't happen I had already decided  I could not go on practicing a belief system  that I did not believe in. It feels like your living a lie, and you can't grow spiritually like that.

I don't think you would be alone in telling people you're Christian to avoid hassles. It seems a more socially acceptable norm. Tends to shut religious door-knockers up as well.

I've no experience on the astral plane yet , so I can't say how that would affect my post-death views. I believe my spirit will travel on, but do what? I don't know.

I agree that we would be more intelligent, or understanding on the astral. You're input is no longer bound by the social environment and biases that are around you here in the physical.

I also think that you might be right in that we carry the essence of our astral understanding with us to earth. The circumstances in which you are raised will only affect you as far as your own personality, feelings & judgement will let them. Your personality is not created by your environment, only affected by it, so where does it come from? It kind of makes sense that you were "you" even before being born on this world.

James S
(Fate amenable to change)

[jilola]

quote:Believing in or disbelieving God really is a personal choice. It should depend on what spiritual forces have touched you through your life, not what people tell you to believe.

The way I see it if that which be choose to believe in advances our understanding and compassion for other people and ourselves the that entity can justifiably be called God. For some it's the Christian God, for other Allah, some some Nature. As long as the belief doesn't persecute, abuse or harm others or their chosen beliefs everyone is free and actually required to choose the beliefs that ring true to each individual.
Does one need to be vocal about one's beliefs? Depends. Sometimes the flak unconventional beliefs attract is like a purificaiton by fire type of thing... Other  times it's best to keep quiet and only answer questions of those who are sincere in their interest.
Should one ? Never. When sincerely asked explain but I don't see how anyone's justified in cramming one's beliefs down someone else's throats.

quote:I also think that you might be right in that we carry the essence of our astral understanding with us to earth.

It's the little voice of reason and compassion thhat so often gets drowned in worldy distractions. The voice that tells right from wrong and gives us hard time (should at least) is we treat others badly.

2cents

jouni

[James S]

All those points are very nicely put. The first ones seem to be good common sense and consideration towards others.

The last point, I like the idea of that - it sits well with me. A voice often equated with our higher selves.

Thanks for your thoughts Jouni.

James S

- You don't choose the belief, the belief chooses you!

[jilola]

I wish common sense was something on which even the tiniest fraction of the world populace put any value. Most of the problems that plague the world today would be so much less extreme if not completely gone.

2cents

jouni

[ralphm]

I read this story a while ago and i think it applies to the discussion. God and the devil were walking down the road, god picked up something, looked at it and threw it back to the ground. The devil asked what it was and god said " a little bit of truth." The devil picked it up and said "here, let me organize it for you"

[James S]

Firstly, to Robert Bruce, if you read this post, thank you for your inspiration. You're article The Catch Basket Concept has led me to possibly the single most significant point in my spiritual walk to date.

Since late June, after receiving a very strong message in a dream, I have put a concerted effort towards my spiritual growth. Before then I was aware of some abilities that I had, but was basically too apathetic towards developing them. With this effort came a flood of information from all directions. Instead of helping me to grow spiritually, I became more confused. Just as Robert described in his article, I found that I was taking all this new information being handed to me, and somehow trying to bolt it all on to an existing belief system that just was not compatible. So I would modify the ideas to try to make it all work. It didn't. My mind just ended up full of conflicting thoughts.

Though I don't doubt that the guidance Robert received was a lot more detailed than what he documented, the basic principal was there, easy to understand, and made a great deal of sense.

I went about writing down all the elements that made up my spiritual beliefs. I then went through and picked out all the things that I believed were real based on direct personal experiences, and discarded the rest, not because I didn't think they could be true, but because I could not say "I know its true because it happened to me".

This left only 5 items out of a pretty long list. What these 5 items meant to me though was absolutely mind numbing. For a great many years I had been taught a way of belief that not only failed to provide me with any real experiences to support the foundations of that belief, but rather sought to take away from me possibly the most important experience I'd had in my life.

Just as Robert had described it, I was left with a very hollow feeling, like the rug had just been pulled out from under my reality. I started to doubt the main part of my overhauled belief system, wondering if I had just been going off on a tangent. A couple of days later I spent a good part of  the morning in meditation with the purpose of  "testing the spirits" to see what was true. I went a lot deeper than usual, and had the first true waking vision I can recall. This vision confirmed for me that I was now on the right track, that the experiences that meant so much to me were real, and that I now had a foundation for a belief system that worked for me, and would allow me to grow.

The vision filled me with the most wonderful peace and joy, and love. I now have a great deal of encouragement, particularly to work on my energy levels. There are things I need to see in the astral, and someone I now know who wants to guide me. For probably the first time in my life I know what it is like to truly believe in something, not because I've been taught to, but because I really want to.

I've not put in the exact details of my overhauled beliefs, because I don't want to offend anyone who's own beliefs disagree with mine, or who feels the need to correct my ways of thinking.
If anyone is genuinely interested in what I've found, please let me know and I can tell you more through Private Mail.
There are many people in this forum whose thoughts and opinions I have really come to value, and its nice to be able to tell someone about something that's made me feel so happy.

Till then,



James S
(Fate amenable to change)