CREATION - Intelligent Design vs Evolution

[Kyo Kusanagi]

From the Afterlife Knowledge Forum discussion thread HERE :

So, the question, Chumley's, is why create an eye that is not perfect?  For this reason: that in being human we may learn valuable lessons.  That nothing stays the same or is permanent other than love.  Why would anyone take a trip down to the earth school of hard knocks and willingly wipe one's own memories, in order to experience joy and suffering of the earth plane?  Because we are told that this intense imperfect brief existence can give us more rapid progression of our spirituality and soul than almost anything else.

There is evidence of consciousness and intelligence everywhere we look. Some designs are flawed, but we live in a flawed but beautiful universe. Matthew

Absolutely. Very well put. More on this in a while.

Chumley is asking if an imperfect eye blueprint is a proof against intelligent design by a creator (man created in the image of God, etc.).  By his reasoning disease, illness, genetic flaws all would be signs of lack of intelligence.  He then says, ipso facto - no God designing it.

This so-called reasoning is based on the mis-assumption (which Chumley himself is moving away from, in fact, his anger is clearly projected upon fundamentalists who proclaim this belief) that 'God' is some external, supreme being, and therefore, all his actions and Creations must be perfect.

Thus, I'll point out that Dave is musing on the nature of 'perfection' (indeed, there can be no objective 'perfection', if you say such-and-such is 'imperfect', you're only speaking for yourself, such-and-such can be argued to be 'perfect', insofar as it is what it is, not what someone thinks it's 'supposed' to be).

While Matthew is pointing out the pedagogical or didactic modality by which physical incarnation imposes deliberate limitations, which is part and parcel of the existential value of man, of living as a human being on Earth (we're not human beings in a spiritual body, but spiritual beings in a human body). This is necessary to faciliate learning, evolution and meaningful assistantialty.

Indeed, from such an understanding, the 'imperfect' eye, body or situation, then becomes perfect (for its purpose), does it not? It's always a matter of willingness to see things from a useful, helpful perspective. There is no value to objectivity or subjectivity (of 'perfection', etc) per se, hence, no true meaning on it's own, only meaningful in the context of evolution, assistantiality, both of which are twin-expressions of Love.

And Matthew also points out that there is an incredible level and presence of consciousness and intelligence everywhere in the Universe, which is not always obvious or understood by many. And most truly, intelligence is at the heart of Evolution, not randomness.

While Chumley, is really expressing dissatisfaction for the religious dogmatic simplistic idea of an external, flawless God who is Creator and master of everything. The whole purpose of this thread is his saying, "Such an idea of God is BS!"


At this point, I'll just mention that Evolution as it really is on Earth and elsewhere on other planets, is always is mix of both 'Intelligent Design' (by specialized guides & helpers working on the energetics of morphological fields and directly on species DNA, as well as extraterrestrial assistance or interference, depending on intention or agenda, in the form of genetic manipulation and engineering), as well as the more 'natural' (but of course, intelligent design is also part of a greater scheme of Nature) or mundane modalities of evolution by science (at least 'science' as understood by man on planet Earth at the current time, as compared to say the sciences of other planets), that is to say, due to the inherent genotypic and phenotypic variation within any given species population (due to spontaneous genetic mutation and genetic recombination by meiotic sexual reproduction), competition results in the differential rates of survival and of subsequent reproduction by those organisms best fitted to the environment (ie. natural selection), which over many generations results in the formation of new species (ie. evolution).

Of course this is happening, but hand-in-hand and together with intelligent design by guides & helpers and extraterestrial agencies. Why? Simply to speed up and to facilitate the apporpriate opportunities for incarnation and for evolution. It is a tricky matter for a group race to incarnate into available biological bodies suitable for the lessons the group race has to learn. Thus is the role of Intelligent Design.


In addition, with regards to the 'imperfections' or 'flaws' of the human body; because humanity in particular has gained the interest of so many different groups or races of beings of different natures and agendas, the human genome has been subjected to 'intelligent' or genetic manipulation multiple times throughout the history of man.

Regarding the adverse effects of consuming cooked foods, particularly cooked fats :

"Now, the understanding of the blending of these races and the importance of raw fats is then understood once the full shift through the Atlantean phase into current physical incarnation is understood. It had to do with becoming more physical, with acknowledging and working with the animal essence. This would be hidden from most of humanity by important Keys, and you are correct in a certain sense in that the ingestion of fat would moderate the nervous system, bringing it into a more aggressive, more fearful, more ego-oriented capacity when the fats were poorly absorbed, as a natural allergic response in the human nervous system. But this must not be understood from the context of anthropology but rather gene splicing and the deliberate attempt to manipulate human consciousness. The reason for this is obvious. The spiritual development, intellectual development, and potential for true awareness was perceived in the Atlantean; this was present to some extent on the Lemurian but not fully physicalized. The physicalization was on route during the Atlantean phase and it was necessary to make these changes if enslavement of humanity was to be a true potential for the future. At the same time the various races that engaged in the enterprise have some contributions to make because the blending of the shadow and the light, the ability for humans to overcome fear, to perceive true deep truth, and to learn the lessons of ego would be a major contribution to all beings (of the Universe) should humanity successfully survive this period."

As described in the passage above, there was genetic manipulation to deliberately exacerbate certain critical 'flaws' in man (genetic-biochemical-psychological-spiritual, all are closely inter-related and inter-causative for the temporary duration of the incarnation or joining of soul to physical body, naturally), in this case, to increase tendency towards fear and ego, when cooked (unnatural) fats are consumed. This was done by races or beings (note : nested or complex intrusion) that had less than benevolent intentions for humanity; but this was allowed by the guardians or higher guides & helpers of humanity, for the grander purpose of overcoming the fear & ego (should humanity succeed as a race in this, this is still up to every human being to decide on the outcome), and consequently a greater contribution to the Cosmos.

For the full article from which the above passage was excerpted from :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/HilarionDiet.html


The genetics and biological body of the first Homo sapiens sapiens Adam, ensouled by the being who would later incarnate as Moses, and later again as Jesus Christ (of course, the name 'Jesus' wasn't his actual name at the time), was in actuality a genetic hybrid of the extraterrestrial Nephilim with primitive man, or the more primitive Homo sapiens subspecies.

Click here to read about reincarnation of Adam as Moses and later as Jesus Christ :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/Hilarion_On_JesusChrist.htm

Click here to read about the Nephilim and Creation of Man (mouse cursor over bottom right of pic to expand it to original size) :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/Hilarion_on_Nephilim.gif


And where is the next step of Man's evolution? By all indications and evidence, it is towards what has been called the Serene ones (ie. once a human soul has evolved beyond the need for physical incarnation, or what some have called 'ascended masters', one charactersitic trait of such evolved human consciousnesses, is serenity), or as scientific name, the Homo sapiens serenissimus :

http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/Hilarion_Angels_Serenissimus.htm


Kyo

[MisterJingo]

There has been many threads on here about this, here's a recent one:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21594&highlight=intelligent+design

I'm not even going to argue about this, but to say I just really don't see any value in the whole ID concept. I really can't see how people can turn their backs on some of the greatest discoveries in our history of a species because it doesn't fit with their world view. I hate to say this but truth might not be pleasent to our belief systems.
Anyway, the above thread covers a lot of arguments either way.

[NickJW]

hmmm... what makes you think evolution is a product of guides and external forces. It can be exaplined naturally by adaption to other climates and environemnts, and genetic mutations.

[MisterJingo]

Ok. If you want a proper discussion on this please go and read:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Then give me your idea's/opinions/evidences against it in terms of ID.

[Logic]

Evolution cannot be explained on its own, there are far too many things in this world which could not slowly evolve over time, but would require a quantum leap in evolution to even exist.

[MisterJingo]

Evolution cannot be explained on its own, there are far too many things in this world which could not slowly evolve over time, but would require a quantum leap in evolution to even exist.

Such as?

The reason I find ID absurd is that it tries to use a lack of empirical data on a few aspects of evolutionary theory (and the theories that contains)  to prove that it itself is true. Yet, ID has not got a single shred of evidence behind it, and is a belief based system.
Evolution is a work in progress, to ignore everything it has discovered to date on the basis it can't explain a few things yet seems either incredibly short-sighted, or reeks of a desperation for it to be false.
I just don't understand how people can point at science as if it is a complete theory of everything, and then use that basis to take on board a belief system such as ID.
Before people talk about irreducible complexity, please go read Stephen Wolframs "A New Kind of Science", and research his work, because he has shown again and again how intricate and seemingly designed complexity can be produced by iterating simple rules over millions of generations.

[Rob]

MJ

I do not particularly subscribe to any theory of how life came to being, I dont think anyone has properly nailed the question yet, although I kinda see an alternative little known about explanation, involving the work of Reich, but wont go into that here. I could give some info if you like but thats not really why I am posting.

I really can't see how people can turn their backs on some of the greatest discoveries in our history of a species because it doesn't fit with their world view.

Such as?

I used to believe in evolution theory because that what I was taught and it seemed reasonable. But then I read just one article that made me change my mind on this, I think I found the right one, I strongly recommend you take a look it:

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/darwinism.1.html

Rob

[MisterJingo]

MJ

I do not particularly subscribe to any theory of how life came to being, I dont think anyone has properly nailed the question yet, although I kinda see an alternative little known about explanation, involving the work of Reich, but wont go into that here. I could give some info if you like but thats not really why I am posting.

I really can't see how people can turn their backs on some of the greatest discoveries in our history of a species because it doesn't fit with their world view.

Such as?

I used to believe in evolution theory because that what I was taught and it seemed reasonable. But then I read just one article that made me change my mind on this, I think I found the right one, I strongly recommend you take a look it:

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/darwinism.1.html

Rob

Hi Rob,
I fully agree that we perhaps haven't got the 'definitive' theory of life yet.
Regarding that article, I've read this previously, and first I would like to state that I am not totally agaist the idea we could have had our DNA altered by external organisms (aliens).
A few things I would note about that article are:
Firstly he doesn't discount darwinism evolution, he just dicounts humans evolved in this manner.
Secondly, his proof mainly resides in inconsistencies in the Fossil Record (which every one admits is not complete - ie we haven't found every fossil on Earth).

Rather than repost quoted material I'll supply some links which regard others views (people who know the ins and outs of what LLoyd Pye used as proofs). Let me know what you think. I should warn you that a lot of these are hardened evolutionists, so they might be a bit critical of other more alternative approaches, but if we look past that to the science we can decided if it's sufficient to counter LLoyds claims.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.atheism.moderated/browse_frm/thread/2f97ef2c31ebe3ec/1f610f26e69ad479?lnk=st&q=Lloyd+Pye&rnum=4&hl=en#1f610f26e69ad479



Just some short FAQs which might be of interest in regards to 'natural selection' and 'chance':

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance.html

And some answered questions, I used these as at least one mentions LLoyd:

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/feedback/nov99.html

[CFTraveler]

Evolution cannot be explained on its own, there are far too many things in this world which could not slowly evolve over time, but would require a quantum leap in evolution to even exist.

Actually, we still in this modern age find new species.  The question is: Were they here the whole time or did they spontaneously appear due to changing  environments caused by us?  And even though the original Darwinian evolutionary theories postulated long times for mutations to take effect, it is apparent that catastrophic events seem to spawn 'new' species.  And we do know of a few catastrophic events in earth's past. (Not to mention 'us'.)

[NickJW]

People keep saying that there is things missing in the fossil records, but I don't quite see this. If you look at Homo Sapiens Idaltu, you can clearly tell it is a transitional species between Homo Erectus and Homo Sapiens Sapiens (modern humans). I don't think aliens have enough time to alter our DNA, since there are so many species on Earth, and if ET's did make us, then what made them? Personally I highly doubt, in fact, I'm sure that there is nothing supernatural about evolution, its a natural process of life.

[Logic]

Wheels did not evolve, they were engineered. Computers, etc..

[NickJW]

wheels are not alive, they do not  adapt to their environments. With all the species that have evolved on this planet, people seem to think something extraoardinary must have happened to bring us about. Really its arragant to think so. From A. Afarensis, to Neanderthal Man and Sapiens, there is nothing extra-special about how we came to be, we evolved just like every other animal. Your name says Logic, yet I fail to see how your thinking in this matter is logical at all. You, like many people, have an emotional need to believe our species, Homo Sapiens Sapiens came about under paranormal circumstances, when that is hardly the case.

As for Kyo's explanation, Adam did not exist, and no aliens came down and altered our DNA from H.S. Idaltu's to make us. We evolved from Idaltu just like Idaltu, Neanderthals and H. Floreniensis evolved from Homo Erectus. We evolved from other species just like EVERY other creature on Earth has. Think about, does it make any sense to say aliens made us, but they didn't make all the other species on the planet?

[Kyo Kusanagi]

You, like many people, have an emotional need to believe our species, Homo Sapiens Sapiens came about under paranormal circumstances, when that is hardly the case.

As perhaps some might have an emotional need to deny other possibilities or circumstances that makes more sense?

As for Kyo's explanation, Adam did not exist, and no aliens came down and altered our DNA from H.S. Idaltu's to make us.

That statement sounds as convincing as, "As for NickJW's explanation, it should be advised that Adam did in fact exist, and some aliens did in fact had a hand in the modification of the human genome".

We evolved from other species just like EVERY other creature on Earth has. Think about, does it make any sense to say aliens made us, but they didn't make all the other species on the planet?

Drop the ego identification of "us" with "human beings" here. Imagine you're one of many races of beings exploring the galaxies. Having the technological capacity to assist/interfere in the genes of other races, for various agendas of your own, wouldnt it be logical that you would do so? Afterall, mankind is already doing this (selectively breeding and genetically engineering and modifying the genomes of) to the other species (bacteria, protista, fungi, plants and animals) on his own planet.

Without ego identification, it's an easy matter to see why extraterrestrial intervention, interference or assistance, is a logical and natural (not 'supernatural', everything is natural in the greater scheme of things, including intervention by other species) occurrence, whether for the plant, animal or human species on Earth.

The fact of the matter is (and it's of course up to you do agree with this or not), from various evidences (such matters are not made public for obvious reasons), different groups of extraterrestrials with different agendas were indeed involved with the genetic modification/alternation of many species on Earth (not merely human), including the 'seeding' or 'terraforming' process of the planet.

Why would they do this? The agendas vary. But why not leave it to simple Darwinian evolution for the earlier hominid species to evolve on their own? Why the need or usefulness for the Nephilim to create a more intelligent hyrbid that wold become the Homo sapiens sapiens of today?

The answer is really common sense. Letting go of ego identification, if you imagine taking the role of the guides & helpers of humanity, you now have on your hands a race of evolving spirit beings (in the extraphysical) that require suitable biological bodies to incarnate into. The physical bodies of the dinosaurs and earlier hominid speices had served their purpose, and it was time to move on to a more intelligent brain that could more effective or efficiently serve the purpose of human incarnation. This includes a brain that could allow the intelligence of the incarnating souls to express themselves better (imagine how a 640KB computer would limit the functioning of a more advanced, self-evolving software that ideally ran on a 640MB or 64,000KB computer).

So from the higher, *natural* perspective, interaction between beings, including extraterrestrial or trans-planetary assistance/interference, is actually not only a common occurrence, it is one that makes perfect sense.

[Kyo Kusanagi]

... and it was time to move on to a more intelligent brain that could more effective or efficiently serve the purpose of human incarnation.

In case some readers are thinking, "So what *is* the purpose of human incarnation?"

It is explained very succinctly and clearly here, by the International Academy of Consciousness (pages 67 & 68) :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/IAC/index.htm

And further elucidated by Hilarion, in reference to the meaning of the fingertip whorl patterns on your hand :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/Hilarion/BodySigns/index.htm

[NickJW]

You just ignored all my points and stuck to your illogical non-sense. Like I said, why would humans not evolve naturally like every other creature on Earth? What makes you think this is so impossible? And then how did the aliens who alter our DNA get their DNA altered for intelligence? What your saying makes no sense. How can you say it's logical that aliens altered our DNA? You, like many people, only see the facts that support your own crazy theories and ignore the rest of the facts that make the theory false.

[NickJW]

You just ignored all my points and stuck to your illogical non-sense. Like I said, why would humans not evolve naturally like every other creature on Earth? What makes you think this is so impossible? And then how did the aliens who alter our DNA get their DNA altered for intelligence? What your saying makes no sense. How can you say it's logical that aliens altered our DNA? You, like many people, only see the facts that support your own crazy theories and ignore the rest of the facts that make the theory false.
And they did not terraform the Earth, the atmosphere gathered here naturally just like it does on many planets. You have a bunch of false theories with nothing to back them up, and once again, who made the aliens? Other aliens? Then who made them? And how come nearly every creature on Earth has 4 limbs, 2 eyes, a head, a mouth, same organs? Its because we're all related, becasue we all evolved from the same single celled organisms, with no outside influence from extra-terrestrial beings.

[Kyo Kusanagi]

Like I said, why would humans not evolve naturally like every other creature on Earth?

If you've read Lloyd Pye's ""Darwinism : A Crumbling Theory" article ( http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/main.htm#Darwinism ), you'd realize that scientific evidence points to *many* species on Earth, certainly not only Homo sapiens sapiens, were either imported (seeded) from other planets, or genetifically modified here on Earth. In other words, by no means are human beings the only speices with extraterrestrial connections.

This is not surprising, if you consider that many species of plants and animals cross continents on Earth, so crossing planets is only a logical next step of this.

And they did not terraform the Earth, the atmosphere gathered here naturally just like it does on many planets.

Again, many planets were actually 'terraformed' by civilizations from yet other planets. And when these planets have evolved to a certain stage, they will 'terraform' others. Humanity on Earth is already planning to do this, once they have the technology to do so.

See the bigger picture. It's not merely a matter of 'evidence' (for which the majority of scientific evidence points to Interventionism over Darwinism and Creationism), it's a matter of the next, logical, commonsense step to take once a biological species has advanced to a certain stage of readiness.

The bottomline being, humanity has many connections with our extraterrestrial brothers, sisters and cousins, including on the genetic level. It's about time we acknowledged this and moved forward to take our place in the galaxy, rather than being a self-absorbed egotistical race that cannot see the overwhelming intelligence everywhere around them.

[Kyo Kusanagi]

FYI, I posted this very same topic on all three of the following forums. Those interested in the subject matter being discussed, might wish to check out all the discussion threads.

Astral Pulse forum :
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22128&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0&sid=404f81183ca9144123435f01c0cb1ecf

Near-Death forum :
http://neardeath.ipbhost.com/viewtopic.php?t=3191

Afterlife Knowledge forum :
http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=afterlife_knowledge;action=display;num=1140358883

[Kyo Kusanagi]

On the Near-Death forum here, EP wrote :

Are you convinced there are aliens who are interacting with Earthlings? Must admit I haven't read the articles you've posted this time as I must be off to work.   I'll read them at the next opportunity.    I don't have any personal experience with aliens, though I consider it highly probable that there is conscious life elsewhere in this gigantic universe.

There are many lines along which excellent materials on the subject matter can be found, among which the following 3 are particularly strongly recommended :

From the insider perspective of a ex-US Govt employee :
http://www.aboveblack.com

From the perspective of intelligent science and evidence :
http://www.lloydpye.com

From the perspective of an evolutionary advanced soul (who was incarnated as Plato the Philosopher) named "Hilarion" :
http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=hilcat&product=Books+Channeled+by+Jon+C.+Fox

The 3rd url above, is a direct link to the book "Starlight Elixers and Cosmic Vibrational Healing", a book project comissioned by Fred Rubenfeld of Pegasus Products, in which Hilarion, channeled by Jon C Fox, describes in detail many *dozens* of extraterrestrial civilizations and their connections (direct or indirect) to Humanity and Earth. If you're open to the possibility that Hilarion is the 'real deal' (which he is, I say this from direct personal experience), then this is a treasure of a book that is an absolute must-have, for anyone interested in the topic of Extraterrestrials.

[MisterJingo]

Like I said, why would humans not evolve naturally like every other creature on Earth?

If you've read Lloyd Pye's ""Darwinism : A Crumbling Theory" article ( http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/main.htm#Darwinism ), you'd realize that scientific evidence points to *many* species on Earth, certainly not only Homo sapiens sapiens, were either imported (seeded) from other planets, or genetifically modified here on Earth. In other words, by no means are human beings the only speices with extraterrestrial connections.

Hi Kyo,

First I would like to say that the above just links to biased incorrect material. Did you get any chance to look over the links I posted which disproves all these claims (which once again are posted in the above website?). To further make me suspicious, there is even information on "the hollow Earth theory", which can be disproven simply by earthquake propogation (ie the waves would travel differently if the earth was predominantly hollow).

This is not surprising, if you consider that many species of plants and animals cross continents on Earth, so crossing planets is only a logical next step of this.

There is a big difference between crossing continents and crossing solar systems. Most species didn't cross continents, they simply travelled when there was a 'super-continent', before most land mass split off in the way we see the globe today.

And they did not terraform the Earth, the atmosphere gathered here naturally just like it does on many planets.

Again, many planets were actually 'terraformed' by civilizations from yet other planets. And when these planets have evolved to a certain stage, they will 'terraform' others. Humanity on Earth is already planning to do this, once they have the technology to do so.

Can you please point out evidence that our atmosphere was terraformed? Such a drastic procedure would have surely left some form of huge evidence, rather than the natural evololution we can see in todays atmosphere composition.

See the bigger picture. It's not merely a matter of 'evidence' (for which the majority of scientific evidence points to Interventionism over Darwinism and Creationism), it's a matter of the next, logical, commonsense step to take once a biological species has advanced to a certain stage of readiness.

The bottomline being, humanity has many connections with our extraterrestrial brothers, sisters and cousins, including on the genetic level. It's about time we acknowledged this and moved forward to take our place in the galaxy, rather than being a self-absorbed egotistical race that cannot see the overwhelming intelligence everywhere around them.

I certainly agree that there are other intelligences out there, but I don't agree that they have visited Earth. Even if they had the technology to do so, we are literally a needle in a near infinite haystack.
If we were visited, where are the structures? Or are they so advanced they removed all traces of their involvement?
Why are we so genetically similar to all lifeforms on this planet, including the plants and trees ie we don't contain any 'alien' DNA which isn't elsewhere in nature.
Where is the evidence of terraforming?

The websites you post contain very biased agenda driven information. Please browse the websites I have posted here and see.

If the universe is full to the brim of spacefaring intergalactic beings, why don't we recieve communications on our vast arrays of satalite systems and radio communication systems? We've been scanning the heavens for a long time and we just find background noise from the bigbang and various solar phenomenon. Are we being shielded so we don't see any signs of this? If so, then why?
One possibility is that life can only evolve in certain conditions, and even though there might be a alrge number of intelligent species, they might be a very long way apart. So no signal has reached us yet, and certaintly no spacecraft.

[MisterJingo]

Here's an interesting article which debunks one of the of the  main arguements used by ID proponents:

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html

[Kyo Kusanagi]

First I would like to say that the above just links to biased incorrect material.

That is not accurate. To be precise, my website offers material that communicates a *perspective*. To say "the website's material is biased" is itself, of course, a form of bias or prejudice.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, and to sharing it. Just as others and myself, are as well. There is no right or wrong, only perspectives.

"the hollow Earth theory", which can be disproven simply by earthquake propogation (ie the waves would travel differently if the earth was predominantly hollow).

Not so. The so-called "disproof", is only based on current models and current understanding, which is itself incomplete. Therefore, it is misleading to say that "science has proven it wrong", because the calculations are based on models, which may or may not be accurate.

In addition, it is also biasness, to prejudge all ideas or information on a website or book or channeling, simply because you disagree with one or some of the other ideas within. That's fallacious thinking.

There is a big difference between crossing continents and crossing solar systems.

It is the same, in principle. If human beings can build transport vehicles that can bring him to new lands on Earth, he can do so to bring him to other planets in the galaxy or beyond. Substitute "human beings" with "any race of beings", and you get the idea.

The websites you post contain very biased agenda driven information. Please browse the websites I have posted here and see.

This point has already been addressed. The agenda of my website is to assist by sharing a certain perspective, a perspective that is largely in line with Hilarion's, and the International Academy of Consciousness's, for instance. And those by itself, is considerable indeed. That you do not agree with the perspectives is perfectly fine (individuality and free will is always honoured), but to make misleading, prejudicial statements to "poison the well", is not particularly helpful.

Notwithstanding, your effort to make your post in a courteous manner, as well as your sincerity in sharing your own perspectives on the topics in discussion with everyone else, is noted and respected. Thus, stances given, it is pointless for me to continue point-by-point rebuttals or reply your posts, because I have never adopted the approach of debate-to-reach-truth, but have instead chosen let-each-man-speak-and-everyone-decide-for-yourself.

Take care and good day.

[MisterJingo]

That is not accurate. To be precise, my website offers material that communicates a *perspective*. To say "the website's material is biased" is itself, of course, a form of bias or prejudice.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, and to sharing it. Just as others and myself, are as well. There is no right or wrong, only perspectives.

Not so. If it was a perspective, Lloyd Pye would not be stating his views as fact, and would not be trying to find fallacies in evolutionary theory to backup his views.  He would also not be using the pretence of scientific principles if all he was stating was simply a perspective.
I said it was biased because Pye uses scientific terminology to try and 'bamboozle' the layman, and through this, pushes his opinion. The only problem with this is that firstly, Pye's entire theory of alien intervention is based on problems he currently sees in Darwinism,  and secondly, these deficits he uses have been addressed, and so his argument falls flat. Some of the links I provided can fill in these gaps Pye perceived to push an alien intervention agenda.

Not so. The so-called "disproof", is only based on current models and current understanding, which is itself incomplete. Therefore, it is misleading to say that "science has proven it wrong", because the calculations are based on models, which may or may not be accurate.

The disproof is based on many things. Such as hollow Earth theory states at the poles there are huge holes leading into the hollow centre of the earth. No satellite has seen any evidence of these to date – you would think to a satellite mapping the earth with radio waves, it would notice such things. Also, increasing numbers of people have been to the poles, yet they haven't seen these huge holes.
Secondly, its beginner science regarding wave propagation through a material. You could build a model yourself to detect the difference in propagate effect of waves (Earthquakes) through a solid object and a hollow one.
Thirdly we know the mass of the earth, and it would be glaringly obvious if it were hollow. Also Earths gravitational field would be a lot weaker.

In addition, it is also biasness, to prejudge all ideas or information on a website or book or channeling, simply because you disagree with one or some of the other ideas within. That's fallacious thinking.

Of course it isn't fallacious thinking. The principles I pointed to were attacks on Darwinism by Pye (which have countless times been rebuffed) and the hollow Earth theory. Both of these make pretence at scientific theory. Are you saying it's fallacious logic to state tested and known scientific fact which shows both of these to be false?
If these theories were pure speculation then it might be different.

It is the same, in principle. If human beings can build transport vehicles that can bring him to new lands on Earth, he can do so to bring him to other planets in the galaxy or beyond. Substitute "human beings" with "any race of beings", and you get the idea.

There is a very big difference in moving a few hundred miles and then producing a machine which can travel trillions of trillions of miles through a hostile environment.
There is also the question of why they found Earth, the amount of estimated planets, and the amount of stars in our galaxy alone is simply staggering.  The amount of galaxies is simply impossible to comprehend.
Unless space is literally overflowing with space faring races (which we would have seen evidence of now), how (in the fifteen billion years of this universes age – although we should take 5-10 billion years off to give stars time to form, nova and produce the materials needed for planets, then the time for intelligence to develop and then produce space faring vehicles) in such a short space of time, and a window of literally a hundred thousand years or so, did these aliens find our planet out of the countless others, in countless solar systems, in countless galaxies?
I just think the chances of such a thing, out of so many potential exploration targets, in such a minutely narrow window of time is too staggeringly remote to even contemplate. Add to this we see no evidence of terraforming machines, no radio waves from alien civilisations polluting space, no DNA evidence for them having tampered with us, no evidence in all the samples we've taken to gauge the atmosphere though earths history.
While there could be aliens out there, I just don't see anything which could remotely suggest they've been here, let alone tampered with us.

This point has already been addressed. The agenda of my website is to assist by sharing a certain perspective, a perspective that is largely in line with Hilarion's, and the International Academy of Consciousness's, for instance. And those by itself, is considerable indeed. That you do not agree with the perspectives is perfectly fine (individuality and free will is always honoured), but to make misleading, prejudicial statements to "poison the well", is not particularly helpful.

I would say theories which parade as science in order to convince less educated people is more a poisoning of the well than countering attacks on science which further a specific agenda.
If those articles on your site didn't mention science, didn't attempt to find fallacies in science to back up their claims, then they would simply be theories and that is fine.
But to be truly impartial, why not include all the counter arguments too?

Notwithstanding, your effort to make your post in a courteous manner, as well as your sincerity in sharing your own perspectives on the topics in discussion with everyone else, is noted and respected. Thus, stances given, it is pointless for me to continue point-by-point rebuttals or reply your posts, because I have never adopted the approach of debate-to-reach-truth, but have instead chosen let-each-man-speak-and-everyone-decide-for-yourself.

Take care and good day.

Firstly, I didn't realise this was your site, else I would have been more courteous. Secondly, surely by posting scientific theories you are advocating the 'debate-to-reach-truth' approach as that is how science works. If you truly advocate the 'let-each-man-speak-and-everyone-decide-for-yourself' approach, why not post the rebuttals to these theories and truly let people decide?

[NickJW]

I'm not saying we are arragant or self-centered, i do believe there is other intelligent life elsewhere in the galaxy and universe, but there is still no reason whatsoever to think aliens altered our DNA, for example when Homo Erectus evolved to Neanderthalensis in Europe, we know that it adapted naturally becasue Neanderthalensis was built for the cold conditions. And once again, if aliens made us, then who made the aliens? Right now there is proof that evolution took place (no i don't care what creationists say, they have no argument agaisnt proof) and it is quite clear that adaption played the biggest part in evolution. The aliens just fit nowhere into this equation, especially if you can't answer an essential question such as 'who made the aliens then?'

[CFTraveler]

http://www.venganza.org/

I still think the Pastafasarians have a point....