I don't follow any particular path that holds this idea to be true, and I don't believe in it dogmatically, but it does make sense to me on many levels. However, if it is true, why would a soul wishing to incarnate choose parents who don't want children?
I once found myself 4 weeks pregnant (confirmed by a test) as the result of contraceptive failure. I am very determined that I never want children & was unhappy about the situation. I was willing to have an abortion, but since there was a few days wait beforehand, I decided to use the time to see if I could deal with the situation myself. So I visualised my period starting, used emmenagogue herbs, and sent a loving but firm message to the spirit (if it was there) that it was not welcome & should find more appropriate parents. A few days later I had a spontaneous miscarriage. (BTW it's not my intention to offend anyone who disagrees with abortion, or to enter into a debate on ethics here!)
Prior to this experience I hadn't really questioned the idea that we choose our parents, but now I wonder why a soul wishing to incarnate would put itself through such an experience? Surely it must realise it wouldn't be wanted? Or do souls not enter the body until later on in the pregnancy?
The soul and the parents all agree ahead of time. Life begins with Intent, not conception.
QuotePrior to this experience I hadn't really questioned the idea that we choose our parents, but now I wonder why a soul wishing to incarnate would put itself through such an experience? Surely it must realise it wouldn't be wanted?
Why do we hook up with people we later divorce?
Why do we cling to a mate who clearly doesn't want us?
There's your answer.
Some people have a desire to be not wanted. Comes from a feeling of worthlessness and disfunctional self-worth.
My two cents...
Hello:
In a word, yes, I can absolutely confirm that people do choose their physical parents (and a whole load more besides).
Yours,
Frank
No, they don't, that's a load of bull. Personal opinion I suppose, but I can't see why anyone would pick parents who don't love them, will abuse them, leave them, ignore them, brainwash them, and all the things many parents do to children.
What does you vouching for it do? How about some reasoning?
Neutrino, that story is fascinating. It must have been an amazing experience for you.
I have never believed that we chose life, much less chose our parents. There are just too many abortions, too many complications, too many blatantly unplanned things that blow that theory to pieces. My sentiments have always been more acerbic than Tyciol's.
However, in the past few months I've been seeing life more in terms of general continuity than as discrete existence. "Life," is too general and imprecise a word to describe our existence. We often live different lives at once - a life as a spouse, a life as a coworker, a life as a parent, a life as a friend, etc. And we live different lives successively within the same lifetime - a life as a child, a life as a student, a life with this partner, a life with another partner, a life in this job, a life in that job, a life in this city, a life in that city, etc. Now lives are even more numerous and diverse - a life on the computer, a life on the internet, a life in forums, a gaming life, etc. Join all that with what we come to this forum to talk about - a spiritual life, a dream life, an inner life, a solitary life, etc. With the view that lives are everywhere for your choosing, choosing life doesn't sound so absurd.
So what about parents? Choosing parents can be almost as multitudinous, when looking at choosing your relationship with your parents. How would you treat those two people - protectors, teachers, guides, friends, abusers, dictators, despots, idiots, weakliings, children, invalids, healthy, admirable, glorious, amazing, sad, pitiable, etc. I sometimes think there's room for all parents to be in these categories and more. In that way, I don't think it's a big deal whether not we choose our parents. Not only are they all human, but we all end up leaving them anyways, and they always end up leaving us.
Nonetheless, I'll always think of that story, neutrino. Thank you for sharing it.
Quote from: FrankHello:
In a word, yes, I can absolutely confirm that people do choose their physical parents (and a whole load more besides).
Yours,
Frank
Hi Frank
Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? I also believe that we choose our situation in life prior to birth. I'm just curious as to how you've confirmed it.
Well I'm not really sure about choosing one's parents but I chose my name before I was born, maybe thats why I don't hate my name like a lot of people I know do.
Your parents name you, so how could you have chosen it?
Has anyone read the Tibeten Book of the Dead? They explain one viewpoint in there that says you choose your parents before your born.
In the book they explain that when you are traveling the afterlife if you are scared and you panic then you won't really think and say, "Hmm okay that looks like a loving couple." You will just run into one at random because you are scared and trying to cling to things.
And in a book called Spirit Guides by Iris Belhayes, she explains that you choose the path of your life beforehand. So you could actually be choosing parents that don't want you or that are bad. You could be doing because that is part of your growth and you want to experience that emotion.
I probably won't know until I die so I am not going to say they are 100% true or anything. But it seems plausible.
Actually, I'd go as far is to say that just about everything starts with intent (maybe everything, I can't seem to prove that theory to myself yet). the physical is kind'a like a manifestation of the intent.
Quote from: RastusThe soul and the parents all agree ahead of time. Life begins with Intent, not conception.
:o). As someone already mentionned, we choose a bunch of things besides the parents. Since we're here to experience, our higher self doesn't care about pain and the suches. It's kind'a like having a goal of winning a gold medal in boxing and knowing that you will have to stumble through a few KOs and serious bruises on the way. You will typically choose souls which you have already had experiences (or currently have). I don't know if it makes a difference or not, but given that we do this, I woudl expect that it would make a difference. (Maybe we don't want too many ties; almost seems silly as an idea)
Quote from: TelosNeutrino, that story is fascinating. It must have been an amazing experience for you.
I have never believed that we chose life, much less chose our parents. There are just too many abortions, too many complications, too many blatantly unplanned things that blow that theory to pieces. My sentiments have always been more acerbic than Tyciol's.
However, in the past few months I've been seeing life more in terms of general continuity than as discrete existence. "Life," is too general and imprecise a word to describe our existence. We often live different lives at once - a life as a spouse, a life as a coworker, a life as a parent, a life as a friend, etc. And we live different lives successively within the same lifetime - a life as a child, a life as a student, a life with this partner, a life with another partner, a life in this job, a life in that job, a life in this city, a life in that city, etc. Now lives are even more numerous and diverse - a life on the computer, a life on the internet, a life in forums, a gaming life, etc. Join all that with what we come to this forum to talk about - a spiritual life, a dream life, an inner life, a solitary life, etc. With the view that lives are everywhere for your choosing, choosing life doesn't sound so absurd.
So what about parents? Choosing parents can be almost as multitudinous, when looking at choosing your relationship with your parents. How would you treat those two people - protectors, teachers, guides, friends, abusers, dictators, despots, idiots, weakliings, children, invalids, healthy, admirable, glorious, amazing, sad, pitiable, etc. I sometimes think there's room for all parents to be in these categories and more. In that way, I don't think it's a big deal whether not we choose our parents. Not only are they all human, but we all end up leaving them anyways, and they always end up leaving us.
Nonetheless, I'll always think of that story, neutrino. Thank you for sharing it.
Being that the world's population is ever-growing... either new souls are being created all the time... or there were a hell of a lot floating around doing nothing for a loooong time, and there still are.
Of course that assumes that all souls can only be incarnated on Earth and that all souls are only human.
Quote from: TyciolBeing that the world's population is ever-growing... either new souls are being created all the time... or there were a hell of a lot floating around doing nothing for a loooong time, and there still are.
Duh.
Even so, that would mean that for every increase in population here, on some other plane or planet you have an existence being wiped out. Otherwise my theory of souls created or in stasis stands.
So you also assume that you cannot split anything either? OBE is about splitting the mind. Having 2 awarenesses. You have your physical body and your astral body (2 minds so to speak). For people's culture, Jesus and Mary were the same soul =).
Quote from: TyciolDuh.
Even so, that would mean that for every increase in population here, on some other plane or planet you have an existence being wiped out. Otherwise my theory of souls created or in stasis stands.
And remember our spirit guides are spirits just like us except they aren't in the physical. So they aren't sitting around doing nothing. Who knows what else there is to do. I doubt if your a soul and your not in the physical your in some type of purgatory and just floating there being bored out of your mind.
Do y'all think you MIGHT be thinking too much into it? Sometimes I find when I'm focused like that, I have to remember...well...I might be too focused!..make sense?
Nay
Quote from: neutrino
Prior to this experience I hadn't really questioned the idea that we choose our parents, but now I wonder why a soul wishing to incarnate would put itself through such an experience? Surely it must realise it wouldn't be wanted? Or do souls not enter the body until later on in the pregnancy?
Hi Neutrino,
Haven't read any of the responses you got to this, so forgive me if it has already been said.
I find your experience to not invalidate the concept of Souls choosing the parents of their next incarnation.
It's highly probable that the being who had chosen you to conceive it's form had an arrangement/contract with you (the Soul you are) to provide this exact experience.. which allowed you to make your own choices, either way.
You could have chosen to do the opposite, or exactly what you did choose.. in the end, it was all included in the pre-arranged contracts.
The Soul who had this arrangement with you may have needed this experience to fulfill some other arrangement with you or others.
And, you'll get no value judgement from me about the choices made.. it's all valid Experience.
:D
Thanks everyone for the replies. It'll take some time for me to gain clarity on this one, but there's much food for thought here :)
Markulous:
I haven't read the book but where you say, "... she explains that you choose the path of your life beforehand ... You could be doing because ... you want to experience that emotion" this is essentially correct.
Naturally, I am not saying everything given in the book must also be correct (could have just been a lucky guess). But for anyone looking for a definitive answer, we absolutely do choose our parents beforehand. I say this from having hands-on experience of the process (used to be one of my pet exploration topics).
Yours,
Frank
Frank, I hope that someday you will share your stories of this hands on experience. Will it be in the book you're planning to write?
Telos:
Thank you for your interest.
My first book primarily concentrates on beginner issues and gives them a grounding in the basics of my work. It is a very practical guide that is designed to teach people the structure of our non-physical system, i.e. I give them a map of the place, and teach them how to begin exploring it, in exactly the same way as I do.
The second book will be all about navigation and visiting other physical realities within our system. I also intend fitting in information on topics such as rescue work, plus whatever else I feel will be helpful to people at an intermediate level of knowledge.
Problem is, people have to get some first-hand experience of the wider non-physical reality first, before they can begin to comprehend some of the more specialised topics such as (speaking in ordinary physical terms) birth and death.
There are a number of variations of each and something tells me this would fill a book in itself. My prime concern is, if a person does not have the necessary grounding, they tend just to reject these more specialist topics outright. But if they have a hands-on grasp of the basics, it makes their comprehension much easier.
Yours,
Frank
Frank, I think I understand what you mean by grasping the basics and comprehension.
Is it like having to know mathematics before fully grasping principles of the physical universe?
It'd be great if we could reduce learning astral projection to a simple math, as if one had to just think of an equation (a relationship between variables) in order to meditate and exit. The idea of "astral math" excites me to no end...
QuoteIt'd be great if we could reduce learning astral projection to a simple math, as if one had to just think of an equation (a relationship between variables) in order to meditate and exit. The idea of "astral math" excites me to no end...
Noooooooooooo....my greatest fear, MATH!!!! Please say it isn't so, I suck at math. Why oh why can't AP be simple like it use to? Get up, look in mirror, see nothing, look over to your body in bed, realize you're projecting! What a novelity.
Nay :wink:
People think they suck at math because they weren't taught correctly. Don't worry, Nay, your teacher sucked - not you. Math at its core is an automatic, subconscious, self-evident joy. But we spend too much time in grade school all the way through high school drilling students on the same exact things over and over. It makes math boring, dull, and uninteresting.
As part of my curiosity in psychology, I volunteered for a full psychological checkup run by grad students. During the math section, I was frustrated at having to complete a long chart of kindergarten addition and eventually quadratic equations. Stuff that I had been endlessly drilled on and felt was redundant, reminding me of past frustration. During the whole test, I kept thinking, "what does this have to do with my psychological health?" Thinking it a waste of my time, I BS'ed it and skipped towards another part of the test, letting the test-giver know how I felt.
When it was over, I was officially diagnosed with mathematics disorder. I was told, given my high IQ level, I should've achieved a much higher score in math. Instead, I exhibited psychologically induced frustration, classifying me as mentally ill.
I don't think I had ever been more disappointed at both education and psychology. Together, they had let me down. Supposedly, something was wrong with me, and not them. Since then I've been learning quite a bit how psychology tries to cover the flaws in our educational system by diagnosing students with disorders.
Together, they let us all down.
[Edit: Oh yeah, I meant to relate this to the topic of the thread. Choosing our parents doesn't matter so much when combined with the effect schooling has on our upbringing. No matter what parents you choose in a given geographical area, the schools will be exactly the same - deficient, dull, didactic, and depressing. They'll stunt your abilities and dumb you down.]
Hi there Telos.. unfortunately school was not my first priority in life, surviving was.
On the up side, I've been checking out my son's math books and HOLY FRIJOLES :shock: there is stuff in there I've never even heard of. I have the time and desire to learn it now. :D Hey, who's to say a soon to be 38yr old woman couldn't still learn math.. :wink: *still sucks though*
I understand the thing about being pigeon holed though...(with the test and all) My four year old is being pigeoned as well. He has grown up with just me, not a daycare.. so he seems to be slower, but he really isn't. Just a matter of the 'clique' they seem to think he should be with. This child can count to any number, forwards and backwards and kick ANY adults butt in Medal Of Honor game. (ok..maybe that isn't so cool to others, but it is really funny to watch. :lol: )
Nay, I'm sorry to hear that. The circumstances of your life must've been complex and challenging. But I also envy you. You probably learned many valuable lessons that children preoccupied with school would never have learned.
The most outspoken person of the educational system, I believe, is John Taylor Gatto. If you read him, I'm certain you won't feel bad that school was not your first priority in life, because it shouldn't be. Not the way it is now, and not the way it used to be.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/
http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm
http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Gatto.html
ARG! How in bloody blazes did Jesus and Mary get into this? I hate them, if you want to talk about them, only do so in the forums labeled 'Christianity'. I wish they were banned...
Quote from: TelosNay, I'm sorry to hear that. The circumstances of your life must've been complex and challenging. But I also envy you. You probably learned many valuable lessons that children preoccupied with school would never have learned.
The most outspoken person of the educational system, I believe, is John Taylor Gatto. If you read him, I'm certain you won't feel bad that school was not your first priority in life, because it shouldn't be. Not the way it is now, and not the way it used to be.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/
http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm
http://www.preservenet.com/theory/Gatto.html
Complex and challenging.... is to say the least, but don't envy me, I wouldn't wish most of my life on anyone. But then again, I wouldn't change a thing, because it made me whom I am today and I'm pleased with how I came out. :wink:
That second link was interesting, thanks!
Tyciol...did I miss something?
Quote from: TyciolYour parents name you, so how could you have chosen it?
Well when my mom was still pregnant they read a list of names off and the one that I kicked on they named me. So I guess it could have just been a coincidence but it's still a neat idea.
Quote from: TyciolARG! How in bloody blazes did Jesus and Mary get into this? I hate them, if you want to talk about them, only do so in the forums labeled 'Christianity'. I wish they were banned...
I don't understand...? You hate Jesus?
Hi, In continuation to this thread, I wanted to ask your take on miscarriage. My husband and I planned our second child and we got pregnant right away. I had attended an 8 week ultrasound, which confirmed fetus was doing perfectly. At 10 weeks I had a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage). I know personally, I did not feel a spiritual connection to the soul of this child, as I did with my daughter who is now 19 months. Interestingly, years before we conceived my daughter I purchased a picture of a mother and child. The child in that picture resembles my daughter almost freakishly. Did looking at that picture for years manifest the daughter I have today?
Hello everyone!
In regards to predetermined birth, I have read and heard many talk about this topic already in my life at 21 years old. I don't know everything about it yet, but most people I have talked to who are heavily involved into spirituality and self-realization say that we do in fact choose our next body to be placed into. Now, with this being said, I don't exactly know the process or order of law as to how we choose in the spirit realm as I have still been unsuccessful for one year attempting, but like someone said earlier, one theory is that we simply choose what looks best in regard to a fitting relationship. This means we have the choice of person. Some could argue that we don't pick and that we are instantly thrown into another body.
For me, I believe until we raise our levels of awareness and master the bodies "chakra levels" or energy levels and reach what is known as "Christ consciousness", we will keep reincarnating into other bodies here on Earth. Now this can get into another topic so I'll keep it simple.
Yes, I do think we choose our next body, but depending on our awareness from our previously life will determine how the next life plays out. This in my opinion is part of the "self realization process" even if involving multiple lives.
Thanks, everyone. -Crispyy
My two cents on why spirits would pick parents that don't love them, or hookup with people they will divorce later, is that it's all about learning. There's something you have to learn from the parent/child or couple relationship.
Quote from: Sagar on October 06, 2014, 22:16:48
My two cents on why spirits would pick parents that don't love them, or hookup with people they will divorce later, is that it's all about learning. There's something you have to learn from the parent/child or couple relationship.
Right.
The lessons you learn here aren't always based on Love.
We always choose our parents yes, before we or our parents are born, we agree to become a family. However that does not
mean we always end up where we intended to. Negative forces will always try and redirect your incarnation to a catastrophic
place, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they don't. For example I ended up with endlessly loving parents, while a friend of
mine ended up with a family of sorcerers that nearly destroyed her. She managed to escape though and fulfill her purpose, an
amazing feat.
There is no such thing as omnipotence or absolutes in the Universe, there is no single force capable of controlling everything
and making sure everything happens the way it's meant to happen. Sometimes love prevails, sometimes the darkness prevails.
Which party ends up where it wants to, depends on luck, ingenuity, and on how much energy they are able to bring to that
particular situation.
Whether our parents love us also depends on their own ability and situation, some people are just so wounded that they are
incapable of giving much love, but that doesn't mean we didn't choose those parents. We choose the people we have work
to do with, there are unhealed wounds or past-life situations that need to be resolved.
Quote from: Hans on January 31, 2015, 15:52:36We choose the people we have work
to do with, there are unhealed wounds or past-life situations that need to be resolved.
Maybe, I just have a hard time stomach it. The problem is not that my life has been a negative experience, which mostly it has, it's that I haven't actually experienced or been able to
do anything in it, so what's there to learn from it?
If anything, the only thing I ever "learned" was how to be instilled with fear, leading to indecision. Think of a crossroads with overwhelming threats whatever path you choose, leading you to do absolutely nothing, so you never even depart to try to reach where you were going. Or the reception room in a clinic, but without your number ever being announced. That's the story of my life.
Now, what's to learn from that? Absolutely nothing. It's a completely pointless existence. It's been a waste; a waiting room, nothing else.
That's why there has to be an Afterlife, cause that's the only way I could get out of here, and get back a life of my own.
Quote from: Blue Glitter Neon on May 31, 2015, 15:14:03
Maybe, I just have a hard time stomach it. The problem is not that my life has been a negative experience, which mostly it has, it's that I haven't actually experienced or been able to do anything in it, so what's there to learn from it?
If anything, the only thing I ever "learned" was how to be instilled with fear, leading to indecision. Think of a crossroads with overwhelming threats whatever path you choose, leading you to do absolutely nothing, so you never even depart to try to reach where you were going. Or the reception room in a clinic, but without your number ever being announced. That's the story of my life.
Now, what's to learn from that? Absolutely nothing. It's a completely pointless existence. It's been a waste; a waiting room, nothing else.
That's why there has to be an Afterlife, cause that's the only way I could get out of here, and get back a life of my own.
What if there's nothing to learn but just experience; you might ask experience what? a non eventful life maybe? In my opinion the true you, inner self or whatever you want to call it wants to experience all there is to experience, in human concepts the good the bad the exciting the dull love hate happiness misery and once you realize what your experience is just go to the next one by doing it now. My two cents
Quote from: mcdwg on June 01, 2015, 13:17:21
What if there's nothing to learn but just experience; you might ask experience what? a non eventful life maybe? In my opinion the true you, inner self or whatever you want to call it wants to experience all there is to experience, in human concepts the good the bad the exciting the dull love hate happiness misery and once you realize what your experience is just go to the next one by doing it now. My two cents
Well, yeah. At least that's a coherent kind of reasoning on the matter.
I know this is an old post, but I didn't see anybody mention astrology. I think maybe we choose the right time (astrologically speaking) before we reincarnate. It is very clear to me that there is something to astrology, and how the planetary energies effect our personalities. When I read about my sign in astrology books it fits me perfectly, while the other signs do not. It also seem to fit the people in my family pretty well. I have also tried to guess a couple of people's sun signs and have been correct. It wasn't luck, but educated guesses based upon what I have read about knew about those signs.
So I believe we pick the right time (astrologically speaking) to incarnate based upon our plans for that life. For example, they say Capricorns are natural born leaders - maybe we choose such a sign and time to incarnate when we want to experience such a role. I have worked with a couple of Capricorns in the past, and while they weren't managers or in positions of leadership, their natural ability to lead was still very evident. They just seem to want to take control of situations and tell other people what to do. Not in a domineering way or anything. The Capricorns that I've known were good people, I didn't see them as being bossy, they just naturally take the lead to get a job done. Nothing wrong with that. My nephew is just a kid and he's a Capricorn. Interestingly, I have noticed that he likes to play and pretend that he is in charge. :) He also likes to watch shows on tv where somebody else is playing the role of being in charge.
So maybe once we've narrowed down the right time (astrologically speaking) to reincarnate, based upon our plans for that life, then we choose between the parents that are pregnant at that time, weighing the pros and cons before deciding upon one.
I have read a few books about hypnotic regressions to life-between-lives. And from what I've read, it sounds like the soul doesn't join with the body until later on in the pregnancy. Sometimes not until the baby is about to be born.
I don't believe in astrology. I don't believe that anything physical happening at the time of your birth can affect HOW you grow up.
As far as I have been told, you aren't given a physical body until the moment of birth. So abortions are just the clearing of physical matter, nothing spiritual. As for being setup with "dirty" parents, that's only a quarter of your life (for most beings) so it's not a big factor when deciding your life experiences. There are also people who are drawn to that type of behavior and treatment as like attracts like. People could also be placed based on karmaic responsibilities.
Quote from: Tyciol on December 24, 2004, 14:16:23
No, they don't, that's a load of bull. Personal opinion I suppose, but I can't see why anyone would pick parents who don't love them, will abuse them, leave them, ignore them, brainwash them, and all the things many parents do to children.
What does you vouching for it do? How about some reasoning?
Because of the experience and growth it brings?
We choose our biological vehicle before birth not out parents. therefore that biological vehicle might be built in laboratory.
Quote from: Hawkadium on November 09, 2015, 16:17:15
As far as I have been told, you aren't given a physical body until the moment of birth. So abortions are just the clearing of physical matter, nothing spiritual.
An unborn baby is living physical matter, so I don't believe this at all. It's like saying a dog or a lamprey is just a robot and only human beings have souls. Considered the seamless organics of 3.8 billion years of biological evolution that's clearly not the case.
QuoteAs for being setup with "dirty" parents, that's only a quarter of your life (for most beings) so it's not a big factor when deciding your life experiences. There are also people who are drawn to that type of behavior and treatment as like attracts like. People could also be placed based on karmaic responsibilities.
Well, I'm 46 and still stuck with my family. Old parents who need being cared for and siblings I can't stand. I will never be free in this life. A chunk of me inside is still like a teenager cause I was never able to accomplish or experience what others take for granted.
Seems like I was a pretty bad guy in my last incarnation or something to suffer this. But I still doubt it's cosmic justice being handed out. Reason is, I came into this world as a reasonably advanced spirit and this life has mainly had a detrimental effect on my status. I'm not advancing, I'm de-evolving, or that's what it feels like anyway.
Quote from: needer on May 16, 2016, 12:38:33
We choose our biological vehicle before birth not out parents.
If that's true, I can't believe what an idiot I was. :wink:
Quote from: Crispyy on October 06, 2014, 08:24:45In regards to predetermined birth, I have read and heard many talk about this topic already in my life at 21 years old. I don't know everything about it yet, but most people I have talked to who are heavily involved into spirituality and self-realization say that we do in fact choose our next body to be placed into.
They only say that cause "self improvement" people are people full of energetic momentum, and they generally look good enough to take matters into their own hands and "realize" themselves without being laughed off the table. They have never experienced existential quagmire, the realization that nothing you do can get you unstuck or that everything moves in slow-motion due to catastrophic energy deficits.
Of course they believe everything is a "personal choice" and up to you. Like starving to death in Africa. Dumbasses.