Fate: A big clue to the perpose of the universe

[Alaskans]

(note: My definition of enlightenment isn't the same as the Buddist definition, I think anyone who knows the physical is only a small thing, and is open and logical to all ideas is enlightened.)


One of my most dear beliefs is that there is no fate but the fate you make. However, to be enlightened means to bear the pain of having to disregard your own most cherished beliefs for the truth. I know that everything is preplanned, if you roll a boulder off a cliff its path was determined when the physical universe was created. There cant be any break in the laws of the universe, its all constant, no matter how complex or 'simple'. It is why there are so many 'coincidences.' For instance, one day driving into town with my family we saw a face on the side of a mountain. It wasn't abstract, it had nearly photographic detail, and was about a thousand feet tall. It couldn't have just appeared. Some time trillions of years ago something decided for the snow to melt just the right way, the plants to grow just the right way and the erosion to happen just the right way. These decisions happened through an innumerable number of chain reactions, all leading back to the beginning of matter. Though I like to fantasize that I'm not some actor in a play, I know that its impossible, it would break the laws of the universe. Could it be fate only applies to the physical world? If so what is the point of this intergalactic movie of fate? I have a hunch (and my hunches are never wrong) that fate will lead to the deepest meaning of existence.

[Alaskans]

So many views and nobody wants to express theirs?...

I do have one thing to add to this, there may be such a thing as free will for us, as individuals, because our spirits are known to live on other dimensions. Therefore our choices aren't bound by the rules of the physical universe (although much of what we may consider free will is actually more of this universal machinery, you burn your hand and reach away it isn't free will, but if you place your hand back it is, psycho  :crazy: ). It would mean that the physical universe is simply a preplanned play created by god simply to test us in the choices we make. This could explain sensing into the future and the ability noted in AP of traveling forward in time, although ultimately much of the future blows in the winds of free will.

[Stookie]

I sometimes think that fate leads us to free will. Maybe it's our destiny to learn we can create our destiny. Kind of ironic.

[Alaskans]

I agree, perhaps were here to make us make choices, therefore creating our free will, and our personalities.
I was thinking about why, when you die, you tend to loose some of your free will (it seems to be a big problem). I came to the conclusion that its because you don't have needs or the physical world to shake things up (unless you get stuck on the needs of when you died). Even with needs mortals can get stuck in repetitive behavior in every day life. If you take away the needs of mortal life your stuck in a kind of shock you may never recover from. It seems to be a major problem, and I think as spiritualists we're on the right track to a happy afterlife.

[Stookie]

Another ironic twist to life: I find that the more I use free will in my life, the more I find myself in situations that are beyond my free will, out of my control.

That's when you've got to learn to roll with the punches. A proper perspective of reality definately helps.

Maybe a harmonized way of living would be a balance between free will and fate? Maybe both play equal roles. But then again, what is "fate"?

[Alaskans]

Out of your controll or finally in your controll?

The definition of fate is the question. The existence of fate is undeniable; without fate you couldn't see or sense the future. With a knowledge of fate I think it might be possible to either willfully tap into the future records or see the dominoes in motion.

The fate of matter is obvious (explained in previous posts.) The fate of people is complicated, because there is possibly free will mixed in. Just how much does the fate of matter effect us? Chemical emotions are just a part of the physical machinery, (the perpose of which is a jumpoff point for spiritual copies or improvements.) Overcoming an emotion, such as fear, would be making a new fate for you, changing thousands to millions of future outcomes. Changing fate is, of course, free will.

I suppose what we now want to know is how is god tied in with all of this?

Hmm... I have to think on this a bit more    I have to admit my brain is straining on the more complicated thoughts I'm having right now..

Please, everyone feel free to post your thoughts, no matter how nuts.

[RooJ]

Personally im not sure, i can argue for and against fate just as easily. Im at a stage where i dont believe in fate.. but i also dont believe we have true freewill.

To be honest i dont think humans have the required knowledge to truly understand anyway. I dont think we have the neccassery information to answer many of the questions we pose to ourselves, the brain can only process and manipulate information it already has. Its impossible to imagine a colour we dont already know for instance, its impossible for a blind person to visualize, the brain isnt capable of thinking outside of the box, it just processes and uses information already stored. Soooo.. if the answer cant be found by manipulating and playing with the information we already have.. then simply the answer cant be found

To make it more interesting im gonna pick a side.. I pick no freewill  .
Put simply from everything I currently know, i cant think of anyway that freewill and choice can be truly possible.. and due to possible paradoxes i dont believe any highly intelligent creature can be predictable. Ill also add that i dont think it matters, the illusion of freewill will never be shattered because when we make a choice, even though its not really free, its always the choice we want to make given the variables present.. The reason for this is because wanting isnt a free choice either, we dont choose what we want, we just agree with the choice, and we only agree because the brain kicks out the chemicals that make us agree... infact we are the brain.

Its interesting that i found this thread because i recently came across a passage of text id written some time ago just spilling my mind into notepad.. i appologise for the poor grammer as i havn't attempted to clean it up in anyway.

On a quantum level the universe isn't predictable.. and i think this filters up somewhat making the universe on a macro level unpredictable.. Einstein was wrong  .. but we don't have freewill.. our will seems like ours because it is our will.. thats what we want to choose.. but we only want to choose it because of things out of our control... therfore the act of wanting isnt in our control.. we cant do anything we dont want to do.. and before you say you dont want to go to work understand your not looking deep enough.. the thought of not liking or wanting to work is completely different to the deep down choices we make to go to work anyway.. and these choices are made analysing all the data available.. you need the money.. you must work.. you dont need the money.. you dont work... you dont need the money.. you do.. BUT.. theres an underlining reason you did.. yes you say.. theres always a reason for everything we do.. but we choose depending on if we need to go for instance.. well you dont make that choice.. your brain is automated.. the data is weighed up.. it pumps the chemicals that make you feel.. it processes your senses.. and i know.. your brain is you.. but its automated.. and you end up feeling like you, for instance, have to go even though you hate it.. and so you think you have chosen to go anyway.. but you didnt.. and you did... your automated.. you dont control you.. you dont choose.. but because you are your brain, in a way you do.. because its the way you look at "you".. your not something beyond the universe, your just the universe unfolding.. just like when the big bang happened... or the majestic swirl of galaxies.. your running the same algorithm that runs in everything.. just the algorithm is forever evolving and grouping and looking and seeming more complicated.. its became unpredictable.. the algorithms became so complex its beginning to understand and question itself.. its trying to understand itself and thats where we come in.. just another evolved route.. a direction.. a stream or path this algorithm has spawned completely unconciously.. the purpose of so called life.. may be just to understand..

I must say it was written along time ago and i dont fully agree with it, im more open minded and tend not to pick sides in debates by pure instinct or belief alone. Also none of the above takes in the possibility of something beyond the physical universe.. but the above is headache inducing enough. I love this topic 

>RooJ

[Alaskans]

Perhaps you were 'fated' to find this thread + your notes I like your notes and thoughts 

'On a quantum level the universe isn't predictable' - is this really true? It might be just what ties everything together! 
-And I've seen an article 'Is the Universe out of Tune?' in SciAm but I didn't bother reading it. I even had a feeling it pertained to this, but my brain thought they were admitting to a dead end. If you hadn't posted I wouldn't have found out (I hate the math involved in quantum algorithms.)

See? There is such a thing as intelligent fate.

Wow... I'm getting that feeling again. I'll write up something, after some research (perhaps wont give my usual paragraph explanation of reality ... yea right).

[Alaskans]

I figured it out. I now know the fate that plays immensely in our lives, and how my own life was intimately shaped by it. Fate isn't born at the beginning of time, if there was such a fate free will blew it into the wind long ago and nothing remains but the movement of the planets. I know this sounds like a break from logic, but fate is the guidance of spirits who are all around us. Even when bad things happen (that weren't created by human free will), they happen for a great change or changes later on, perhaps a total shift of both consciousnesses of a person.

If you are able to sense your fate, don't go against it, or you will miss great things in this life that you may miss for eternity.