What is enlightenment?

[Mustardseed]

A while ago I had a very interesting conversation with a very wise man, who said the following

Realization is absolutely essential to enlightenment. Enlightenment cannot occur without the staggered realization process. One can become close to God in many simple ways, yes, but one cannot become enlightened through this because enlightenment is a direct result of the realization process. They are indivisible

I have since had many changes in my life and still come back to this point as a sort of a big question. I have always believed that by Living in Love man takes on the Spirit of God so to speak, and become enlightened by this love, but is there another enlightenment. A mental or shall we say a intelligent steered enlightenment of sorts. I have recently read a book by Martinus, that seem to state that enlightenment "by the brain" is not the "right way", and leads astray. I enclose a link and would be interested in hearing your take on this.

Regards Mustardseed

http://www.kundalini.se/eng/cosmology.html

[wisp]

Hi Mustarseed!

It's good to hear from you.

Interesting material and deep questions. It's a good article. There doesn't seem to be much to disagree with on the subject.

God is more than love to me. God is intelligence as well!

[karnautrahl]

Nice link mustardseed.

No issue with the essay you linked to , nice read.

I do have issue with this one.

http://kundalini.se/eng/edev2s72.html

.

There is absolutely only one single way to the light, and that is the way of humility and neighbourly love. There is no shorter or longer way whatsoever to the light or the great birth than this divine way. No being whatsoever can arrive at the great ultimate result of life with more ease or more difficulty than other beings. Everyone must absolutely go through the same to become the same. "

Something in me doesn't go along with this in it's absoluteness. I've always felt the whole of reality was about infinite diversity, so blanket wholesale things like this - well I fundementally don't believe.
What do others think?

Thanks for the read.

[Grennelle]

Since Enlightenment is about opening up to more of the Light as you reconnect further into your higher awareness, it includes various levels or stages of wider consciousness.

All paths will eventually lead to Enlightenment, as you experience more of this world and your Self.

Enlightenment is terribly misunderstood, as if it was something we had to work towards and then become IT.  Each of you are already Enlightened, only you don't remember it yet.

A day may come when you begin to remember the soul you are, and then start to remember what brought you to the here and now, this will automatically open you to more Light and you will be on your way to experiencing Enlightenment in this life, on this world...  perhaps again.

[Mustardseed]

Hi Wisp long time how have you been . Just started posting a bit lately but not much. Hope all is well with you
Hug
to you
Mustardseed

[Tombo]

I havent read the link but I can say you this: "Enlightement is not about believing what anybody says but about exploring your very own mind."
Others may guive you help how to do this. (IMO)

Enlightment means understanding how things work. Understanding how suffering comes into the world , not just understand it in a logical way but understand it through experience (Meditation) after that all questions are answered and all doubts removed, all seperations vanish.
There may be different ways that prepair the enlightement, but in the end it is not a brain-thing.

In Buddhist Teachings it is said that mindfully observing the breath itself can lead to enlightment.
Practicing Loving kindness, and thinking about the teaching can help as well.

This is the Buddhist view (IMO).....

Cheers Tom

[wisp]

Mustardseed,

Hi Wisp long time how have you been  . Just started posting a bit lately but not much. Hope all is well with you
Hug

Hugs to you to MS. I wish you would post more. I miss your energy.

I'm fine (in the general meaning of things ), thanks. How are you?

Hey! What's with the recent bashing of your channeling thread? Did you notice? I think it's very rude!

[Mustardseed]

Ain't I a happy guy. Not a worry, I would rather be bashed than ignored, at least its a sign I am still alive. Ha. So good to hear from you wisp. Look forward to posting more, got a few ideas and .....well we will see. So very nice to hear from you, you always meant a lot to me.

Regards Mustardseed

[wisp]

Realization is absolutely essential to enlightenment. Enlightenment cannot occur without the staggered realization process. One can become close to God in many simple ways, yes, but one cannot become enlightened through this because enlightenment is a direct result of the realization process. They are indivisible

My opinion:
Enlightenment is simutaneous with realization perhaps,and maybe both are the same thing. To be one with God requires an important component of self. To communicate with God only takes an earnest desire.

It's easy to love when there is a willingness and there's a supernatural influence. To love during conflict takes trust and patience. How quick is one's love, when one's life is on the line? How quick is love when other lives are on the line?

Love is sometimes an undercurrent. Love should be an incentive toward action. Proper action is not well defined.

By prayer and being open to a higher mind, one absorbs the thoughts of God. God is telepathic.

Interaction with material/physical existence requires more than love. It requires thinking for problem solving and appropiate action. Thinking builds, action proves (or disproves).

Love is mixed with other things. Love is being smart, but one can't love all it takes to arrive there. Slowly, the pieces come together. The journey opens up, the obstacles dissappear (unless...you want what's in your way).

Love can be no more than any other emotion. You can't accept love unless you recognize hate.It's easy to see in others, how many see it in themselves? Nope,it doesn't happen. Instead, alot of compensating by proving yourself worthy and good to be seen by others. Alot of so called good things happen for the wrong reasons. So maybe alot of bad things happen for a good reason.Just rambling now.  

In a small, yet clear voice...."I didn't do it"  

[Leannain]

for me  enlightenment is to become one of the most inteligent beings in the universe

[Tyciol]

I disagree that Enlightenment has to do with becoming one with god, or connected to the light, or getting in touch with your higher self.

To me, enlightenment means you have learned to manage life. You do not love because love is all there is, but instead you realize that anger is generally a waste of time and prefer to remain calm. When you learn to appreciate how everything has its uses and it's place, and you are calm in dealing with them, you can't help but appreciate or even love them. Not a love of obsession or subservience, but sort of like the love you have towards a pet.

[MindFreak]

Enlightenment in the Buddhist sense is realizing your Buddha-nature. It is the destruction of delusion and the end of the cycle of reincarnation because it is delusion that causes our desire for life which in turn causes us to reincarnate. The word Buddha means one who is awake. To become enlightened is to become a Buddha. Awake to the truth.

Satori is a glimpse of enlightenment. Everyone experiences satori at one point. All you need to do is instead of following your thoughts as they pour forth, look back at the source of thought. Look back at your mind. You may get a strange feeling. Like you are looking at yourself (with your mind not your eyes). You realize the person you thought you were is just a product of the mind. My signature is how I describe my experience of Satori.

[Kenneth]

I must agree with Tyciol, that enlightenment is not a "Now you are not - now you are" process, but a slow natural sort of "learning-curve", where you more and more accept yourself / likes yourself in your daily situations.

To me, the path is through learning, playing (and training) the different parts of my self. It is through accepting MY inner reactions as they are - and NOT as I would like them to be  

It is going deeper and deeper into my self, and at the same time continuing living on the outside world.

It is slowly to change my view from "Living inside, and experiencing outside" to "Experiencing inside, and living outside", where outside is the daily situations, and the inside is the "inner world" of thoughts, emotions, pain, pleasure etc.

It is going from trying to understand the Outer situation through "dividing" and "categorizing" your inner reactions, and take sides with something inside of you - and thereby go against something else inside of you(!), to understand the outer situation through understanding ALL of you IN the situation.

It is going from passive "blind" reactions on your inner reactions, to active, conscious "search" for elements to complete the picture.

It is also to Remove yourself from your inner reactions and thoughts, in order to better be able to expose your self to them - and thereby learning / experiencing, that NO inner feeling or thought what so ever can EVER harm you, unless you WILL it so!!! ... And through THAT knowledge, grow as a Human being.

To me, there is nothing more beautiful, serene or deep, than to talk to someone about a personally and painful subject, and experience, that they have found THEIR inner peace while they are in that experience and emotions. That they completely have accepted themselves AS THEY ARE, while they are deeply in that otherwise painfully state.


....Basically, it is learning to not take yourself too seriously, and to "rediscover" the curious child inside of yourself, and then "let it loose" on your inner world   .

[Tyciol]

Oy, yes, truly that... although I don't totally take joy in accepting myself as I am or seeing others that do.

People should confront their current state, but not be at ease with it. They should re-engineer their lives to become better. If they don't, they disgust me.

After all, why be happy with being out of shape, or unattractive, or being poor, or not being able to do what you want to in life? Just as one must overcome his pretentiousness towards others, he must do the same to himself, yet reap all the punishments he would upon others into himself to break down the barriers, and develop and admiration for the new things he wants to do. The better things.

If you want to ask what is better, people should ask me, because I know. If you need to ask, you should introspect and get feedback from other people, but take it with a grain of salt.

[TheLostOne]

enlightment is put very simply :
understanding of everything

[Leannain]

by understanding of everything that means the enlighted one will become one of the most intelligent beings in the universe?

[no_leaf_clover]

Maybe enlightenment can be refined to finally accomplishing whatever goals we exist to accomplish, or at least becoming consciously aware of our ultimate goals. And maybe mastering a means to eventually accomplish them? That's kind of vague, but it seems to helps bridge opinions.

Personally, I think love and intelligence both probably have a lot to do with it, whatever it is. For some reason I don't tend to think love is limited to being an emotion, either. If you saw your deeply-loved partner about to get stabbed, and instinctively and instantly threw yourself between the knife and him/her, then that would seem to me beyond an emotion. Other emotions like fear, anger, being horny, etc., seem to arise from our own immediate personal needs to ensure our well-being. If love is simply an emotion, it's certainly the oddball at any rate.

We seem to love discriminately, though, with a tendency towards those that satisfy ourselves in whatever way. Makes it seem kind of selfish to be willing to give ourselves to only a few and not all, and there has been a lot of spiritual emphasis on loving everyone indiscriminately and unconditionally in the same way we do for those select few. Makes sense for becoming a better person, but certainly seems a little difficult. :/

[Kenneth]

Just came to think of another posting I did in another thread here in Spiritual Development, that (IMHO) also points towards "enlightenment"  

It is an answer in the thread "How do I loose the Hate"..

-------------

Hello Kevin,

I can hear, that you have chosen the path you want to walk - peace be with you on your journey my friend!

I am sorry to hear that you didn't get much out of the EFT technique ( http://www.emofree.com ), but at least you tried using it, and you have it at your disposal whenever the need arises  

I have chosen my path too. It involves (over time) to change the pain inside from sheer terror and pain, and into bliss full understanding - and peace.

I accept, that I am a human being. Everything I think, sense, feel and do is a PART of me, and to say that ie. anger doesn't exist inside me, or trying to suppress or combat something inside - or trying to starve it to dead - is for me (on my path) a sure way to commit slow suicide. One emotion at a time, one opportunity at a time, one situation at a time.

I try to look BEHIND the individual thought that pops up uninvited, to see what inside of me triggered that thought in comparison to what situation I find my self in - and to (perhaps) over time get a handle on that feeling/energy deep inside my subconscious, recognize it for what it is, accept it, understand it, and finally forgive it / release it - and thereby forgiving my self. (And in that process turning a little bit more of my unconsciousness into consciousness).

My path says, that I can think what I will, Feel what I will - but my ACTIONS has to obey two single "laws".

- If it harms no one, then do it
- Protect the weak from the strong.

That has also been the single most difficult thing, to sort of "erase" what society has told me is right and wrong. (To get out of all those "Thou shall not .....", and think of the consequences of my actions, rather than the action itself).

That is why I also have to accept your chosen path, even though it sort of "saddens" me to read it ?!? ... (I don't know why actually, but something behind your words saddens me).

Just remember, that the opposite of Love is NOT hate, but ignorance - and the opposite of Hate is not Love, but forgiveness  

...How is it, that every REAL deep-felt empathy has it's roots deeply buried in transformed pain? .... Why is it, that the best person to help ie. an alcoholic go through his/hers inner pain when quitting alcohol, is a former alcoholic? ... (One that has ACCEPTED that inner part of him/her completely!).

The path that I have chosen for my self tells me, that the word "to heal" is in its essence to "Make a whole of what is broken into pieces...". In order to recreate the original beauty of my self, I have to sort of "use" each and every piece of my self. An example could be, that I have no understanding for when I read about ie. a murder. I feel a deep fear and hate inside me, while I read it.

Before I would REACT on those feelings, and speak up loudly and sort of "distancing" my self from the story on that murder. Now I have found, that while I did that, I also distanced my self from the feelings of Hate and Fear inside of me(!).... That it was actually NOT the "situation" I distanced my self from (although it seemed that way), but it was WHAT I FELT, I distanced my self from(!). Now I try to accept the feelings inside of my self, and let the story or situation be a sort of "guide" or "pointer" to some broken pieces / split feelings inside of me, that I need to heal. (Or need to find my "peace" with).

....And the amount of negativity and fear that the media projects is growing, but at the same time MY ability to Embrace what those projected feelings / those stories does to ME is also being enlarged.

And what I hope to end up with ? .... Me understanding and embracing ALL of me. I hope, that I will never understand every situation I may find my self in, but i DO hope, that I (over time), will learn to accept and love each and every FEELING and degree of "intensity", that these situation invoke in me!.

That is (IMHO), what enlightenment in it's essence is: To have found my peace and true acceptance with each and every little bit of energy, feelings and thoughts that occur inside of me.

It is not the situations we fear, but more THE REACTIONS those situations "trigger" inside of us. Find your Peace with your "inner" world, and the situations around you WILL reflect that Peace!  

On the other hand, I also believe, that you can not TRULY understand inner peace, if you don't TRULY understand inner war! (Like Light<-> Dark etc.)

It is my hope, that your Path brings you to what you are missing. I find, that our paths has so many things in common, and yet I feel that they are miles apart .... (go figure  )

With kind regards, and many thoughts...

Kenneth