Even if I'm wrong, it just feels right

[Astralzombie]

I know this is a bit long and I don't expect anybody to read it. I just wanted to thank everybody and a few individuals in particular. I wanted to get this out there so I would get past the self-imposed need to explain my curiosities and boorishly drop my bio here and there. Without names, If it speaks to you, then I am speaking to you  

I had my first spontaneous OOBE in 1998. I was a freshman in college and I had all of the normal concerns any typical 19 year old young man would have at that time. But I've always been an excessive worrier and started suffering from panic attacks when I was in high school. I didn't have any more pressures on me than most of my peers; I simply worried too much. I had a loving family. I went to church most Sundays and I was genuinely happy. Something was just missing. I was never satisfied and I'm not speaking in ungrateful terms. I had more than most to be thankful for so I used my faith to fill the void I felt.

My first OOBE was terrifying. I didn't see any nasty devils or anything like that. It was just the realization that I was of sound mind and what I believed was of a sound body, yet I was on the floor staring at my self asleep on the couch. I panicked and tried to cry out but I couldn't make a sound (thankfully). Completely ignorant to what was actually happening, I prayed as any good Catholic would. Nothing. I tried to lay on my physical body to get back "in" but nothing worked until I finally just laid on top of it and gave up. I did not over think how I could have died but in the moment I was sure of it. I decided that it was best to just wait for my escort to hell since Jesus wasn't claiming me. For a true believer like myself, this was the most emotionally painful realization I could've arrived at. It was a complete and total capitulation of my spirit. To ever feel worse than I did, I imagine it would only be through the loss of my family.

In that moment, I finally woke up. Now, I had to deal with the shame of abandoning my faith over a single "crisis". To put it simply, I cried like a child. The next morning, I awoke with vigor and a determination to redouble my Christian efforts. I prayed to Jesus and thanked him for that test and dismissed my silly "dream". But I felt a subtle sting as I prayed. It felt similar to when I was a child and I had to apologize to one of my siblings, even though I had done nothing wrong. But I had to do it or risk greater punishment from my parents. I would not admit it at the time, but a definite chink had appeared in my armor of faith.

I quickly got past that night but I never forgot it. Not once. Flash forward to the year 2000 and my second spontaneous OOBE nearly drove me mad. It was quite similar in every detail but the result was drastically different. I panicked, I cried, and I resigned myself to the hell that awaited but I didn't pray or repent. I did nothing to deserve the terror I felt. I was obviously not strong enough in my faith to endure another "test" and I was a tad pist because of it. What ever it was that I had experienced, it was no "dream" or lapse in my sanity or reasoning. But I wasn't ready to toss my soul into the coals over something that I could not explain and give up on Christianity and the "only" path to salvation.

I told my parents of what I had experienced and they reacted as any parents would I'm sure. What did I really expect them to say? In essence, I explained it the only way I knew how to at the time. I had what felt like was the worst nightmare ever imagined although I wasn't asleep. Even though I was sleeping. I didn't see or hear anything bad. Huh, that's a nightmare? I just didn't know how to explain it to them in any terms that would accurately convey why I was terrified. Thankfully, if they thought I was crazy, they didn't act like it. This was nothing that a good talk with my parish Priest couldn't take care of and off I we went.

Father Doughtery was the coolest Priest that I imagine ever walked the earth. He's in his late eighties and retired now but he can still be found in a pub every now and then. An old habit from his days back home in Irealand, I suppose. I was 20 and home for the summer so I felt like a child as we went to the church. I hung back with my dad as my mom went to find Father Doughtery and I remember my dad making a comment about how miserable Jesus looked up on the large cross that hung above the main altar. As they approached, I barely made out the words demon and Father Doughtery saying, "No, no. It's nothing like that." That pist me off. A demon? Give me a break.

I left with my Priest and we had a pretty mundane chat. He asked some embarassing questions about sex and life in general. Well, I was embarrassed, the questions and Father Doughtery felt fine. I explained to him what happened and he assured me that everything was normal. He told me that I had an OOBE and that  many people experience them at some point in their life. He was very reassuring and as I was leaving I told him that I was gonna look into all this stuff. He stopped me and told me to promise him that I wouldn't. He gave me a stern warning about messing around with the "supernatural" and all the bumps in the night that would surely follow. I should mention that Father Doughtery had been trained at the Vatican as many Priests do when they can. It was a pretty convincing warning. I promised him that I wouldn't like the good Catholic boy I was. We all left there feeling like everything was gonna be normal.

But again, I felt like something was missing. I wasn't satisfied with the little talk I had with my Priest. It would still be many years before I was ready to admit it, but there was a definite crack now, in my armor of faith. When I returned to school that fall, I looked for book's on OOBE's at my University's library. They had a few that were about OOBE's in particular but they were just case studies. I wanted to see if there was anything out there that could tell me how to have one intentionally. The only books that gave any instructions on having an OOBE were about Astral Projection. I wasn't looking for another religion. I was still a devoted Christian and I didn't want to read about any voodoo stuff like AP. After an exhausted search, I realized that it was AP or nothing. I only read about the techniques since I didn't want to be influenced by any other religious stuff.

It described a technique about summoning my this and focusing my that but it boiled down to just relaxing and slowing my mind. After about a month of no success, I had a major panic attack. Anybody who has had one knows that they are scary as heck and death is sure to follow. Every panic attack is horrible but I was almost grateful for this one (my last one too, by the way). A certain feeling fell in place for me afterwards. It was my first panic episode since I had had my last OOBE. This time, however bad as it was, I wasn't terrified while it hit me. I knew that I needed to rid myself of the guilt I was feeling for practicing what I thought was considered a religious ritual. And this was not a ritual endorsed by my savior.

I dropped all the terminology that I felt had religious overtones and substituted them with Christian "friendly" words. After another week of trying, I achieved my first OOBE with intent and awareness. I also credit my success to the fact that I had absolutely no doubt in my mind that this was possible. I just can't speak enough, about how positive it is to know something with an absolute certainty, instead of just depending on faith in the possibility of something being true.

At this point, I could tell you about all my wonderful journeys and experiences I've had in the last twelve or so years in the Astral. But the truth isn't like that. I was still a Christian and just because I felt good about what I had achieved, it didn't mean that I didn't feel guilty. After all, I was committing some serious offenses against my eternal salvation. If something horrible happened and I didn't have time to repent; my short lifetime of just trying to be a good person wouldn't even buy me a glimpse of the pearly gates. Much less, a pass to walk though them. So, I tipped-toed my way through the astral, yet I still had some very powerful experiences that I learned a lot from. And I'll admit that I perceived some of those experiences as a validation of my Christian faith. But something was still missing.

After a rough 2012 and some amazing synchronicity in all it's NPR glory, flash forward to 2013. Hello, Astral Pulse and good-bye to my Christian armor of faith. It was getting heavier and was falling to pieces at the same time. I asked some dumb questions and some intelligent folks answered them. Nobody cared if I was religious and nobody forced any opinions on me. I was sick of worrying and feeling guilty that being a good person, a kind and caring person, wasn't good enough for a positive afterlife. An afterlife, that religion told me depended on faith. Well I was tired of faith when I just didn't need it anymore. What use is it when you just know? I know that I have a lot of work to do in this life and in the next and I no longer fear it [as much].

Now, I'm not preaching to anybody. I'm not advocating that anybody change the way they feel. If your religion feels right to you and you're a better person because of it;Then I believe that is a beautiful thing. I don't know what to think about God anymore. Right now, I'm comfortable in knowing that there is a purpose to this life other than filling a box at the end of it. I'm not arrogant enough to believe that I can make it on my own or without the help of a higher power. I just don't want to limit that higher power to only loving and caring for a few people who happen to think they are the only ones deserving of a better life after this one. I'll always be open-minded but right now, nothing seems to be missing and I am most satisfied with the little I do know. Thank you Astral Pulse.

[Lionheart]

 This was excellent, Thank You for sharing.

Writing these truths is very healing and leads to you further understanding your own truths.

But, never give up faith. Just turn that faith around to being faith in yourself as a conscious energy.

Open yourself up to the truths you seek in the NPR and you will receive your answers. Many times that answer is not black or white, cut and dry. Many time this answer is going to come in the form of a puzzle or quest. Some kind of riddle for you to solve.

You will keep reliving this puzzle/quest until you have solved it, at least according to what you need to see or need to learn at that point in time.

At this time a new challenge or question may appear. This is what inner growth is all about.

Just make sure you don't do what I know I am sometimes guilty of myself and that's putting yourself above others because you are seeking what they might not be.

Once in awhile I go on a rant here because I hate seeing people wasting their lives away with foolish materialism and things. But then I realize they are not wasting away their lives. They are experiencing what they wish to experience in this physical reality.

But, we can be ready and there for them if they ever ask for help.

A true teacher and yes right now we are all being trained to be teachers, never looks down on anyone or criticizes them for what they haven't learned as of yet.

[Bedeekin]

That's an amazing transformation there it's-not-bad-in-the-slightest! 

I come from the diametric opposition to you; having no faith or belief in a christian god. I can't say a sort of god... I just didn't conform to any book written gospel nor did I see any merit in devout worship of anything, anyone of any sort.

As time has gone on and experience after experience has moulded me I have met this attitude half way and no longer think any one religion is wrong.. and I am less quick to judge a faith. I do however still baulk at the 'evil' connotations that OOBEs point to in the eyes of organised religion; that it is wrong or that it opens one up to the 'supernatural'... or that type of thing. After all... if god created everything... then there is no such thing as 'super' naturalness.

Instead of taking the standpoint of your faith being shattered... is it not fair to also twist that into what is essentially an outsiders point of view, that the FAITH you believed in has been exposed as having many many cracks and pit-falls? That you have evolved away from and become wise to these inconsistencies? That YOU personally have nothing to be guilty about?

[Astralzombie]

I have met this attitude half way and no longer think any one religion is wrong.

I agree 100%. People get in the way of everything good. I actually believe that if I had not been raised a Christian, I would have found it on my own and still be one today. I arrived at the true issue, after sleeping and reflecting on Lion's comments, I reread my post. I realized that my issue was with God's human 'messengers' and not the Big Cheese personally. For many reasons, I have come to believe that the important thing is to realize that there is a God or Higher Power. And not to limit that. There are just too many religions and good people that existed on this earth before Jesus was born. I can't personally accept that they were doomed because they were unfortunately born before God could figure out an easier way to save their 'souls'.

I would feel terrible if I offended anybody's sensibilities as that was not my intentions. For example, I called AP in my post voodoo to show my ignorance as I really was.


Instead of taking the standpoint of your faith being shattered... is it not fair to also twist that into what is essentially an outsiders point of view, that the FAITH you believed in has been exposed as having many many cracks and pit-falls? That you have evolved away from and become wise to these inconsistencies? That YOU personally have nothing to be guilty about?

Excellent point. Not to play a game of semantics, but I would say your statement would be more accurate if you switch faith with religion where I put in in bold.  The two can be accurately interchanged in many different contexts.

Then I could say no...The religion is fine but my faith has been shattered in the religion as I understood it. I have to come to know God in such a different way now, that it just isn't possible for me to look past the inconsistencies that I feel have come to plague the Christian religion. Not Christ himself, he was perfect in every beautiful way in his depiction. Now maybe it might be fairer to say that my misgivings lie in the Catholic denomination specifically and not the others but the God as I understand does not fit well in any one belief system that I currently know of. I have become more reserved but certainly not wiser in where I put my faith but you did pose some questions that I must reflect on. Why do I feel that I have some crazy stuff to look forward to in the NPR?

If I had just been a Sunday warrior, then I think I could of had the same experiences and they would have concreted my faith in Christianity.

What do you all think about this. Like I said, I did not see any terrible devils or the flames of hell but I certainly thought they were coming. Why didn't they then, if thought equals what we see during OOBE's? Would you have interpreted that as a sign that my prayers were answered so that I would not have been overwhelmed further?

Not once in any of my early explorations did my ever present fear create these terrible images. When they did finally come, I was ready to quickly leave there but I certainly would not have confronted them head on like I feel I can now. This whole life is a paradox. Existence is a paradox. And I'm just starting to truly love it. I know that I may sound a little over zealous but I'm really not. I look forward to the day that my goals are to just chill out and let it all come as it does. But the pragmatic beast that I am, says to make this a personal priority first so that those days will come and I will never again have to suffer another crisis in faith. That day is just around the NPR corner. Thanks.

This is an intense topic for me and it is hard to control my rambling sometimes.

[Bedeekin]

This is actually very interesting.

I'm not too tip-toey around offending people about their religion. A solid belief or knowledge should never be able to be shaken by somebody else denying it.

If someone said to me that my mother didn't exist... I couldn't possibly be offended because it's a ridiculous notion. I have the same attitude towards the reality of OOBE. Just this weekend I was describing to a friend how I have had successful remote OOBEs that confirmed I was actually at the location asked of me and reported it accurately. I said to him that although he could question my truth... although he could personally make any excuse using his own reasoning that I was maybe mistaken or it was coincidence... I simply can't deny that it happened so therefor couldn't be questioned. If it is questioned.. my reaction is 'pffffft'. I don't get upset in the slightest nor do I cry into my sleeve because I am insulted.

In my eyes you are a shining light towards something I have faith in; that anyone devoutly religious simply couldn't uphold their view in light of true personal consciousness exploration. I always rejected organised religion, even when I was a little kid. I questioned everything and used to annoy the Sunday school teacher when my parents used to march me to church every sunday. Then at 11 I experienced my first OOBE and from there on in I have developed a different idea towards religion.

I reject religion but see the message and underlying 'story' of most religions the same. Jesus was obviously real... whether he was an incarnate son of the all creator that's another question. At most he was maybe a direct incarnate NPMR entity... at the least he was a very spiritually evolved PMR human. Real non-the-less.

As always... whatever message he had, after his death he left his ideas open to suggestion and interpretation. This caused groups to collect with the message of salvation... the number expands and naturally some will have other interpretations... so they form a slightly different version.. and do on and so forth. This is the illogicality that forces religion to be criticised; "if you are right are the others wrong?"

If you were a sunday warrior and all you had were a few SP experiences under your belt, it's not wrong to assume that it would have probably reinforced your belief of evil. Sleep Paralysis went some way into creating fear during the Salem Witch trials in 1692 and resulted in the death of 25 innocent people.

[Astralzombie]

In my eyes you are a shining light towards something I have faith in; that anyone devoutly religious simply couldn't uphold their view in light of true personal consciousness exploration.

I had goose bumps when I read this. And not at all because you said something nice about me. Actually it was only because of the second clause. Because that is EXACTLY how I feel, only I did not know how to convey that feeling accurately in words.

The question I asked my self was, "How could (not why would) I be able to have these OOBE's if I was not supposed to?" That is to say that free will was not in the picture during my first two. Now if the all powerful and judgmental God did not want me to have these experiences, he could easily fix that. My previous mindset left me guilt ridden for having the experiences that allowed my faith to crack then crumble. And the internal conflict was this: Because I had experiences in which I had no control in 'entering', WHY should I feel guilty for having them.

The answer is simple. We do not have to believe in anything that we feel has been perfectly discredited in our own view.

If the color yellow makes most people feel happy but you get headache looking at it. You will never be happy so long as you have a headache. If you can get rid of the headache then keep the yellow, otherwise change the color and you'll find another one that makes you feel happy and good. 

Nothing anybody said to me could have changed the way I felt. If I had my first OOBE because I intentionally sought after it, I would have dealt with the guilt and viewed everything as a confirmation of my old beliefs. Because I had no free will in the matter, the guilt I felt was not my own. That, I have accepted.

Someone may read this and think this is much to do about nothing, but I would have to ask them if their own personal well being is not important to them; What is?

There are many roads that lead to the same place we are all headed to. And if they all lead to the same place, why not find the road we each personally enjoy?

We can't all be right and we can't all be wrong. In my mind, that makes us equal.

[Bedeekin]

Someone may read this and think this is much to do about nothing, but I would have to ask them if they're own personal well being is not important to them; What is?

Very true... Its much to do about everything. What we try to understand about the meaning of our existence and reason makes us. If we don't try to understand then we are as good as semi-conscious zombies.

We can't all be right and we can't all be wrong. In my mind, that makes us equal.

Indeedy!! 

[Astralzombie]

Interesting. Ignorance is another tantalizing possibility to entertain my zombie possibilities.

"The Walking Dead" mid-season premiere is tonight.

On a different thread you asked me if I had read "World War Z"? The better question would be to ask how many times have I read it.

It's by far the best in the genre IMO. Brooks approaches it from a pragmatic stance. He doesn't give them any enhanced abilities yet he doesn't automatically strip them of their physical abilities. Instead, he lets them deteriorate as we might think it would happen. The interview tactic makes for a quick read yet it can be put down and picked back up at any time and start anywhere in the book and not be lost with few exceptions.

I am disappointed in the super zombies that the trailers imply but only because they are using the WWZ title. Though I am at heart a zombie purist, the zombie concept that I consider pure is actually a modern change. So how's that for contradiction.

I think the zombie has to change with the times to keep it's relevance in horror fiction. It has to reflect our current fears and anxieties in a society to be appealing. It's interesting to look back ans see how the zombie is explained to be reanimated.

Cold war zombies were reanimated by radiation and chemical weapons due to the prevailing fear of nukes.

Modern zombies are now actually infected through viruses since bird flu and all that started the media rounds.

Many universities in the states are using the zombie phenom to teach philosophical classes. It's effective to assimilate pop culture with studies that many people otherwise would not have been excited to learn about.

We can not discount the Wider Zombie Reality.

[Bedeekin]

So it does. I have it ready to record. 

The Walking Dead has pretty much nailed the 'classic' zombie genre... as in.. it can't be done any better.

I read WWZ when I thought I was going to be working on it and hoped it would be done in the same style as Contagion or maybe District 9. Even as a very high quality mocumentary... like the book is written. To put it back into a one man (Pitt) struggle just normalises it.

I love the little details in the book... the fact there are people who aren't zombies but want to be and believe they are by pretending to be... just like it would happen. I see they have used the New York stand off bit. The fact that boats weren't safe either... or people falling into the sea. Max Brooks used so much detail that it seemed a sure fire straight to film adaptation would be good enough. Aaaaah Holywood... how little faith you have in the novel.

[astralnaut1]

hmmmm talking about zombies  i had a dream today about them.... the virus was spreading very quickly and was able to turn ppl into zombies in seconds. Those ppl started to eat others... lots of gore scenes. in one episode as i remember i had a hammer and crushed ones zombies head.

[Ellis91]

Well I'm sold! Just bought World War Z from Amazon.
I'm certain it will be as good as you guys and everyone I know is telling me it is.

Can't wait for The Walking Dead, the shows hit a whole new level, absolutely brilliant.
Episode 4: Killer Within, was for me the most emotional scenes/episodes I've ever witnessed
in Tv/Film. The Green Mile always had that crown, but there was that one part with Andrew
Lincoln that tore me up.

Great stuff. 

[Bedeekin]

Oh god... That episode was unbelievable.

Andrew Lincoln's acting when he finds out... unbelievable.

It's actually surpassed the graphic novel. They've done an amazing job.

You won't be disappointed by WWZ.

[Astralzombie]

You should love it Ellis. For me it sets the gold standard. Brooks will never wow you with his prose but he's not trying to either. It's about the most believable style so far to give a real feel to something that is great fun but utter non sense. It's creepier that way. Let us know what you think.

As far as the movie goes, we'll have to wait and see but right now I'm wishing Leonardo Dicaprio (sp?) would have won the rights to make the movie.

Some serious critics said that if the movie followed the book, the question of whether or not a zombie movie could win an academy award for writing or acting would be answered. lol

[Lionheart]

 There was a commercial on TV during the Super Bowl that had a sneak peek of World War Z starring Brad Pitt. Hopefully the movie is half as good as the book!  

[APtoVegas]

Where else could someone's personal story about questioning faith through astral travels somehow intertwine with zombies and Brad Pitt?

I love this site! 

[Bedeekin]

 

So true.

[Ellis91]

Just realized I dived into the topic talking about zombie stuff without giving its_all_bad credit for his first post.
A very interesting read and an admirable yet arduous unexpected journey towards the truth.

Onwards we all go, bound towards Erebor, with all its spiritual treasures.   

[Astralzombie]

Just realized I dived into the topic talking about zombie stuff without giving its_all_bad credit for his first post.

Well thank you. I did not mean it imply that I discount the power of religion or that I am enlightened and others aren't. The main reason I wrote it is because I have changed so much since I found this forum. I know it is a drastic "transformation" for one to have seemingly made in only one month. So much so, that it would almost appear as if I was just trolling. The truth is that the change in my spiritual beliefs was not over night nor did it come easily. I have only accepted it and felt good about it because of the help that I received from the pulse. Of course I haven't yet found all the pieces to the puzzle but I have started connecting the ones I have.