Masturbation

[Nay]

Why does masturbation have to be a spiritual experience?  Why cant people just masterbate cause they are horney?  

J'agree.  Beautiful...just beautiful.  

Sarah

Hehehe..I agree too.  Here's an old saying, "If masturbation causes you to go blind can't I just do it until I need glasses?"

Nay

[James S]

...  And you release energy when doing pretty much everything.   I think masturbation is being put on a pedistal here.

Good point Wronski!

Worrying about whether or not masturbation releases to much energy wastes far more energy than masturbation ever will!

jazket,
We live in the physical. Our soul's chose to be in this realm. Denying the material is not only missing the point of this existance,  it can be just as harmful as denying the spirit. We are beings of four parts - physical mental, emotional and spiritual. Acknowledgement of all four are required for balance and progress.


I've got a joke for you Nay, that I think applies well here:

Many years ago an acolyte joins a new monastery and is being shown around by the Head Priest. The head priest shows the new acolyte the main function of this monastery - to make new copies of the Word of God.
In a large room dozens of priests dutifully copy out these precious words.

The young acolyte notices that the priests are all making copies of the last lot of copies made. He asks the Head Priest, "Father, I notice that all the new copies of the Holy Word are being made from the last copy. They are copies of copies. Is that wise? What if mistakes have been made?"

the Head Priest replies, "never fear my son. Every priest here works to the highest of standards. They do not make mistakes. Besides, the original texts are far too old and valuable to be used every day for copying." The young acolyte accepts this answer and walks on.

Several days pass and the acolyte looks everywhere for the Head Priest. When told he is down in the archives cellar, the acolyte goes down to find the Head Priest standing moaning, banging his head against the wall, with leaves of ancient manuscript scattered about him.

"What's wrong Father?" the young man asks.

"I thought about what you said the other day my son, so to ease my mind, I came down here to compare our latest copy with the originals."

"And what did you find to cause this grief Father?" Asked the Acolyte.

Sobbing, the Head Priest answered, "...mixed the i and the e....(sob) and missed the r... (sob)...

...the word is 'CELEBRATE'!!"


James.

[Marlinya]

I suspect that the hand on the head method has more to with focusing one's intent on not releasing the energy than the actual physical hand as a barrier.

My comments on self-pleasuring and Tantra are all from Tantric Sex: Making Love Last, by Cassandra Lorius, who apparently practices Tantric techniques that she learned from Skydancing UK. The book contains tons of testimonials  from current students. It seems that there are definitely some who practice some established form of Tantra who do practice masturbation. In this book, the emphasis is taken off of orgasm as a goal of sexual intercourse, it is not expressly forbidden. It is simply one option among many, as long as the focus is placed on becoming aware of the energy exchange and seeing your partner as an incarnation of the Divine.
This book is filled with wonderful breathing exercises and meditations for solo and couples practice.

Sexual intercourse between people can be base, lustful, and utterly without spirituality or higher awareness, and it can be a beautiful expression of love. It all depends on the mental focus, and I see masturbation as the same deal. Sometimes it's purely lust and purely physical, and sometimes you are truly appreciating and loving your body and seeing yourself as an Incarnation of the Divine.

It's all a choice. Whether or not you choose to have sex or masturbate or transmute all of your sexual energy...we are the only ones who can truly know what's right for us at any given stage of our lives. I personally believe that we are all headed for Oneness with All...so does that mean no sex, or that the One will have to masturbate Itself? Will we all just meld into one big happy light, or will that simply mean that we all remember where we came from and remain fully connected while in our bodies? If we're not using any of our bodily organs, what's the point of retaining a human form?

[Nay]

Hahahahahaha!!!  :cheerleader2:

Good one, James.

Nay

[Jazket]

I just read many bad concepts that should not be called "Spiritual" in this thread. After all this part is called "Spiritual Evolution!" You should change its name to "Material Prisons"

It wasn't your spirits writing when you posted all this comments I just saw... It was your Penis.  

I would quote you all to clarify your comments, but I prefer to keep my mouth shut, because I know I easily irritate people, mostly Men in this phase of learning the things from the Spirit, because they are creating an ego even bigger than what it was before they got to know about all this. And they have no idea of this yet! Believe me that whoever speaks for himself, its getting glory for himself as well, and God will judge him for that in times of rebirth; but I who speak, don't do it for my own glory, as my glory comes from my Father who created me.

We are beings of four parts - physical mental, emotional and spiritual. Acknowledgment of all four are required for balance and progress.

I say, Many lives you need to understand the beginning of these concepts.

[thesickmoon]

I just read many bad concepts that should not be called "Spiritual" in this thread. After all this part is called "Spiritual Evolution!" You should change its name to "Material Prisons"

Absurd, boy! What works for others might not work for you. Material prisons BAH!

It wasn't your spirits writing when you posted all this comments I just saw... It was your Penis.  

I wish I could teach my penis to do tricks like that. Then I could make millions and become more popular than Ron Jeremy and Peter North combined.

I would quote you all to clarify your comments, but I prefer to keep my mouth shut,

!!!

because I know I easily irritate people, mostly Men

Are you Woman?

in this phase of learning the things from the Spirit, because they are creating an ego even bigger than what it was before they got to know about all this.

If I could make my penis write with a pen or type on a keyboard, it would be a helluva lot bigger than my ego. I'd even use it to slap my ego around a bit before going to bed. Knowerrimean?

And they have no idea of this yet! Believe me that whoever speaks for himself, its getting glory for himself as well, and God will judge him for that in times of rebirth;

Which God? And while we're at it, what are gods, anyway? Are they even trustworthy? Do you know where they came from? What if they take great pleasure in making our lives miserable by imposing commandments that go against our very nature? Do not covet thy neighbor's butt? Well, frak! What if my neighbor's got an butt like Jennifer Lopez?

Now, I hear JL's got a great butt, but she's not my type. I like the Mary Tyler Moore 1962 type, you know? Boy, she was hot back then. Except I think my GF is better looking, and she *loves* masturbation. I like that about her. She likes do do it before she goes on those journeys, you know? Journeying is something I'd like to try, but I can't even meditate properly, so no journeying or AP for me. Never could do it, but I'm not giving up on it.

I guess whoever's in charge won't let me in 'cause they're afraid I'll start ruining timelines, or something. Cause I wanna go back to the late 70s / early 80's to see some old Iron Maiden shows with Di'Anno and Stratton, or go see some Sugarcubes gigs in late 80s Iceland. Maybe they're afraid I'll take Stratton's place on guitar instead of Adrian Smith. Oy maybe they're afraid I'd go and have a peek at Mary Tyler Moore 1962 in her dressing room. Who knows? The wrong people are always in charge, anyway.

Anyway, my point is masturbation's not the reason I can't seem to journey or AP since my GF does it all the time and journeys just fine.

but I who speak, don't do it for my own glory, as my glory comes from my Father who created me.

I've heard that before, but can't place from where. Refresh!

We are beings of four parts - physical mental, emotional and spiritual. Acknowledgment of all four are required for balance and progress.

HEY! That beats the Christian God, who's only three parts in one. Whee hee!

I say, Many lives you need to understand the beginning of these concepts.

SAY! Did you know Jessica Simpson said "damn" in a song once? And it was a hit song, too. But it was kinda close to the end of the track, and that's when the moron DJs start talking about traffic or telling stupid jokes written by stupid people with stupid jobs or whatever, so maybe no one ever noticed it.

NP: Joan Jett's version of "Do You Wanna Touch Me" mmmmmmmmmmmm yeah

[Selski]

:laughing4:

[Mustardseed]

Just stumbled over this thread..........it FREAKED me out.....(.in a good way dudes). You mean to tell me that its possibly to do it alone?

Nay tell me this is not a joke. Too good to be true.

RG MS

[James S]

Thesickmoon,

:rotfl:

You're last couple of posts have made this entire thread a whole lot more readable!

Love your style! Keep up the good work.
:peace:

[James S]

Just stumbled over this thread..........it FREAKED me out.....(.in a good way dudes). You mean to tell me that its possibly to do it alone?

Nay tell me this is not a joke. Too good to be true.

RG MS

LOL!!!

Don't tell me MS, you'd wished you'd worked this one out 13 kids ago right??

[Mustardseed]

OK here ........James I know you are on the level...........but please don't kid me............what exactly does this masturbate thing mean.......could it be that........NO No NO I cant believe it............shriekkkkk. tell me I am dreaming

[thesickmoon]

Thesickmoon,

:rotfl:

You're last couple of posts have made this entire thread a whole lot more readable!

Love your style! Keep up the good work.
:peace:

Thanks very much! I'll try to keep it up.

[Souljah333]

strange that it doesn't seem possible to have an intellectual discussion about masturbation?!? guess it's the mix of maturity levels'!?

there's a lot of levels to self-gratification. the joke of "why does a dog lick his balls?...bcuz he can!" comes to mind. seems to be the major point that most of you are pushing (and that's fine)...although some dogs become obsessed with the habit...and that's where my point comes into play.
so everything one does 'releases energy'...sure, great. simple & straight forward, but another aspect of this discussion was looking in the area of creating a drain on chi, tantric practices, etc. (not just in relation to masturbation, but intercourse as well). once again (for me) it goes back to abstinence & self-disciplines. i wonder in my mind how long any of you have gone without sex or masturbation? like the fasting & breatharian threads... it doesn't cross into that realm of "necessary", but it elicits such dramatic response.

a lot of the discussions that i involve myself in, here @ AP always feel the same. drugs and there effect on the mind/astral...a lot of ridicule & insisting by people who are inexperienced with drugs. fasting threads where most of the replies are made by folks who have never fasted at all, or done the one or two day thing. and this thread...

just another interesting topic that could lead to something profound, but winds up being a joke...bcuz people can't deal-e-o, or think outside their own particular function.

of course there's nothing "wrong" with masturbation. that's what you'd tell your kids, hope to get across to women, etc..."get to know your body, experience it, explore". in that circle it's healthy and grounding. but there shouldn't be any faulting those that move outside that circle and seek a deeper understanding of things on a non-material level/where the necessities of many things are being questioned (food, sex, religion, science, politics, money, etc.) it should never be viewed as a personal attack or threat to anyones belief systems...we're merely people that have an interest in moving & not getting stuck.

[Marlinya]

I went to a lot of trouble to read this entire thread to make sure I was contributing something new, and got very little response to my comments.

I'm assuming now that this is more of a joke thread.

[thesickmoon]

I went to a lot of trouble to read this entire thread to make sure I was contributing something new, and got very little response to my comments.

I'm assuming now that this is more of a joke thread.

Allright allright ALLRIGHT! I hate being serious, but I went and read your earlier replies to this thread. I remember skipping over them the first time because there were paragraphs in them.

2nd day on the forums, and of course I'm drawn to the masturbation page...

In all 11 pages, I saw some very old links, but nothing written here on how one can keep the energy from "leaking" out when orgasm occurs, so I'll say what I've gleaned from a few books on tantric sex and various other places.

Apparently, when you orgasm, energy shoots up the chakras, going right out the crown--unless you stop it. Supposedly, if you put your hand on your crown chakra (top of your head) during orgasm, it will bounce the energy back into your body. I have tried this (on the few occasions that I could remember!), and I did feel a tingling of energy, and did not feel tired at all afterwards. This is supposed to work for men too, but I've never gotten any guy to try it, so I am not sure. Maybe I'll get the chance soon!

I've heard this before, but I can't place where. I think my GF told me about it once, but she may have done so by using more than three sentences on me. She ought to know better than that by know. But anyway, I think she's actually done it before journeying. If I remember correctly, it works well for her, and there is no energy drain or anything like that. Unless it went undetected or something, but I'm just paranoid that way.

During intercourse in Tantric sex, some practitioners are taught to imagine that energy is like a magical sparkling fluid that flows through the chakras of both partners. The couple breathes alternately: man in, woman out; woman in, man out. They are taught to visualize that this energetic fluid goes up the man's main chakras when he breathes in, and down his chakras through the root chakra up through the woman's chakras when she breathes in. I can't remember what is supposed to happen during orgasm in this particular book, but it involves maintaining the energy that is built up during sex, instead of letting it dissapate. I'll have to look up their recommendations for solo practice as well; I don't remember them off the top of my head. But I'm sure they have some method for keeping the energy.

There you go with those paragraphs again.

This is something I'd like to try with my GF. The only trouble is I was raised to think sex is dirty, and I have a hard time overcoming that. Thankfully, she wasn't raised that way, so she's not afraid to get freaky when it comes down to it. I love that about her. But anyway, I'll ask her to respond to this thread so y'all can compare notes. If you want.

I have also read in a different book on sex magick that you can consciously direct the flow of energy during orgasm--instead of it rushing upwards and out of the crown, you can bend it forwards at about the throat chakra and direct it in a loop over or through your head, and back in at the back of the throat chakra. This way you just create a heightened energy loop. I wasn't able to remember this one at the right time before I forgot half the instructions; I was browsing in a bookstore and didn't purchase the book--so please don't try it from these instructions, because they are incomplete and I may have gotten the specific chakras wrong.  :confused:

What was the name of the book? If you mentioned it, I missed it.

I hope this adds a bit more to the discussion!

I hope so, too.

[Wells]

If you are interested in genuine white tantric sex, get "The Perfect Matrimony" by Samael Aun Weor.

[thesickmoon]

Thanks! Are there different types of tantric sex? I ask since you mentioned white tantric sex.

[Marlinya]

*grins @ thesickmoon and tries to avoid more than 2 sentences.*

Thank you!

Yes, I would like to compare notes with your girlfriend.

I will look for the book on directing sexual energy sometime this week. I don't own it, so I can't tell you off the top of my head.

Wells, I am interested in 'genuine white tantric sex' as well. Do you have experience with it, or do you just know of it through this book?

[Wronski Feint]

Believe me that whoever speaks for himself, its getting glory for himself as well, and God will judge him for that in times of rebirth; but I who speak, don't do it for my own glory, as my glory comes from my Father who created me.

So i cant fornicate or masturbate, then why do I have a penis?  I think god would rather me masturbate, than go have premarital sex, cause thats like a big no no right?

[Souljah333]

i've always been able to get my mind around the concept of GOD as a creator/source/unified field of intelligence, etc...but i've tried to hold that concept without having to personify it. i don't believe that god "wants" you do anything; in that light "he" becomes an authority/father figure, and we end up drawing on the only reference we have first-hand knowledge of...our parents, and then everything begins to slant towards the dysfunctional...imho.

when it comes down to it there are three (extreme) options
1) take advantage of your physical form while it's available and delight in all earthly pleasures.
2) make moves to surpass the physical, utilizing abstinence a symbolic gesture that you are focused on ascension of spirit.
3) or do nothing, but sit in limbo.

didn't really have a point with this post
soul

[Wronski Feint]

i concur souljah, i too see god as a parent more than a vengeful god, that cant wait to send me to hell for anything 'wrong' i may do.  Feels good to agree.

[Souljah333]

finally :hippy3:

[Marlinya]

when it comes down to it there are three (extreme) options
1) take advantage of your physical form while it's available and delight in all earthly pleasures.
2) make moves to surpass the physical, utilizing abstinence a symbolic gesture that you are focused on ascension of spirit.
3) or do nothing, but sit in limbo.

didn't really have a point with this post
soul

I actually liked that post quite a bit. I would add a compromise, that I believe is the point of Tantric sex and things like walking meditation:

4) use the physical as means to experience the spiritual. (partaking in physical pleasures while consciously acknowledging and giving thanks for Spirit's involvement in the creation of those pleasures; using a heightened awareness during every experience, etc.)

I think it's possible to simply delight in the physical without acknowledging  the spiritual aspect, and it's also possible to be in limbo, unable to appreciate either purely physical or purely spiritual.

[thesickmoon]

*grins @ thesickmoon and tries to avoid more than 2 sentences.*

Thank you!

Yes, I would like to compare notes with your girlfriend.

I will look for the book on directing sexual energy sometime this week. I don't own it, so I can't tell you off the top of my head.

Wells, I am interested in 'genuine white tantric sex' as well. Do you have experience with it, or do you just know of it through this book?

I spoke with her about it. She had no idea what I was talking about, but after bugging her about it for a while, I remembered what she had told me, which was this: one night while she was doing some kinda crazy assed energy work, she opened something called a Chakra. When she did, it gave her an orgasm so intense it made her eyes water.

I'm very jealous of this Chakra. I think I shall kick it's butt. Where do they live, and what do they look like? Do they wear hats?

[Marlinya]

Well, there are lots of chakras...what kind of energy work was it? Does she remember which chakras she opened?