Mushroom drug produces mystical experience

[jilola]

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/scheduling.html

Unfortunately magic shrooms are way illegal in the US as they are almost everywhere other than the Netherlands.
The reason for the ban is unclear but irrationality is a prime uspect.

2cents&L&L
Jouni

[Enoch]

They are not the way to go for YOU. That does not mean for someone else. So much false doctrine from learned nonsense thats just not true.

[SilverSlider]

The reason for the ban is unclear but irrationality is a prime uspect.

Haha true enough

I always think it's interesting when at websites such as this where the sheep populace would come down on us for this stuff, members dictate what is right and wrong like those against what they do! I'm sure if there was a way to outlaw astral projection it would be done.

...and they're hard on the liver anyway.

Really? I heard they can make your brain bleed too. I also heard they make you pregnant and give you gonorrhea if you're not careful!

I suppose it takes a bad trip or seeing a friend die to make people see, they are not the way to go.

Are you talking about people physically dying? Only one person has ever died from eating magic mushrooms.

I also think it's interesting that some people find that psychedelics are an incredible tool for learning after a bad trip, as bad trips are an immense opportunity to learn, from what I hear.

[Stookie]

I also think it's interesting that some people find that psychedelics are an incredible tool for learning after a bad trip, as bad trips are an immense opportunity to learn, from what I hear.

Bad trips can also cause psychological damage/imbalance. It's more than possible to have an experience that causes psychological trauma.

[SilverSlider]

I Agree Stookie, which is why I don't think mushrooms are for *everyone*. Like most things, they can benefit or hinder, depending on the person. Do you have schizophrenia? DON'T DO MUSHROOMS! lol It just amazes me that when one thing that many people see as negative doesn't solve the worlds problems, it's bad...umm does caffeine cause enlightenment? Oh wait! no...Alcohol! Yeah that's where I learn of the words wonders and gain superior health! na...not so much. The majority of people on this planet have a very unbalanced view of psychedelics such as psilocybin containing mushrooms.

Many people I've talked to, after having bad trips figure out what happened during the trip to cause those feelings and they learn from them. The people that have bad trips, get scared, tell everyone they come in contact with that mushrooms will have you blowing the devil, is really missing out on an opportunity. As I'm sure many here believe, the hardships are where we are most likely to progress forward.

[Novice]

No one needs external 'help' to have "mind-blowing" experiences. So many people today simply do not want to put in the time it takes to actually have one. They are always looking for immediate effect. I do not believe this is the case with everyone everywhere. But I dop perceive it to be highly prevalent in the west (western Europe and US). I do not believe that there is any short-cut in spiritual matters.

The majority of people on this planet have a very unbalanced view of psychedelics such as psilocybin containing mushrooms.

I think the majority of people on this planet have a very unbalanced view of pretty much everything in life. You mentioned alcohol. Do you know how many people over the years have actually explained to me that they drive better after a few drinks because their more cautious behind the wheel?!    Sounds totally whacked doesn't it? 

As absurd as the statement above sounds to you right now...

Many people I've talked to, after having bad trips figure out what happened during the trip to cause those feelings and they learn from them.

...that is how I percieve this comment.

I realize that you cannot 'hear' my words, so I assure you now I am not trying to sound condescending or inflammatory in any way. I am merely tossing in to the ring the thought that perhaps trying to do something without the help of any type of drug may change your perspective on the matter. If you can compare both, you may be surprised at the difference. Oftentimes when we are in the middle of something, it is difficult to step back and see it for what it is.

[DH]

No one needs external 'help' to have "mind-blowing" experiences. So many people today simply do not want to put in the time it takes to actually have one.

This nails it for me.  Thirty-plus years ago I was a "frequent flier" a la acid, peyote, or anything artificially mind-bending.  I had my share of mountain top and valley experiences.  Gained some insight into life -- mostly about what not to do!  Having been a recovering hippy for some time, I agree that nobody needs external help to have "mind-blowing" experiences.  What comes naturally is more awesome and more helpful in self-discovery.  It took me awhile to figure that out because i was too impatient.  I wanted life handed to me on a silver platter.  But most valuable things in life do take time, effort and (I hate the word) patience. Jeez, I'm starting to sound like me dad.  Welcome to the "old fart" club I guess!
  DH

[MisterJingo]

This nails it for me.  Thirty-plus years ago I was a "frequent flier" a la acid, peyote, or anything artificially mind-bending.  I had my share of mountain top and valley experiences.  Gained some insight into life -- mostly about what not to do!  Having been a recovering hippy for some time, I agree that nobody needs external help to have "mind-blowing" experiences.  What comes naturally is more awesome and more helpful in self-discovery.  It took me awhile to figure that out because i was too impatient.  I wanted life handed to me on a silver platter.  But most valuable things in life do take time, effort and (I hate the word) patience. Jeez, I'm starting to sound like me dad.  Welcome to the "old fart" club I guess!
  DH

Every experience we ever have defines us, and places us exactly where we are today. I agree that you don't need psychedelics to have mind blowing experiences (well the brain actively produces DMT - the most mind blowing psychedelic known to man), but such experience are part of what gives you this view now. Psychedelics have a very long relationship with the mind of man, and while I do think they are ultimately a dead-end, they can help many people reassess and put their feet on the right path for them.
Concerning psychological damage, the damage is done by the reaction to the drug and not by the drug itself. Such as flashbacks. Flashbacks can happen to anyone who has ever had a powerful experience; it's simply an innate action of the brain. I very much believe in education and sensible use on such matters as these. Psychedelics are not things to be taken lightly, or without the right set and setting.
For me, psychedelics would show a much bigger picture, before returning me back to earth. Years of meditation and trance work have gradually altered my perception of reality in a way psychedelics could only ever do fleetingly (and with less control).

[CFTraveler]

I recently read a book which is indirectly about psychedelics.  It seemed to me that the insights the author  received from certain types of them were similar to the insights (and sometimes experiences) that I've had through meditation and AP practice.  (The book wasn't about them, pro or con, but more about his spiritual development and experiences).  At some point in the book, he spoke about how people in his generation needed these experiences to change the way they saw 'reality', and their place in it, and that someday, or in the coming 'shift', we wouldn't need these substances to achieve the heightened states of perception that they caused in him.  Whether this is valid or not, I don't know, but it seems to me that as MJ said, these are not to be taken lightly, and sometimes if the idea is to learn to naturally 'tune in' to this 'alternate reality', doing them anyway is somehow a step backwards in evolution.  Kind of like acquiring a crutch when you don't need one.  Just M.O.

[SilverSlider]

Novice, I didn't take your post as being condescending, but thanks for putting that out there as we all know it's hard to tell what people mean when they type their words. I can kind of see your comparison but I don't think it is very fair. There are virtually no advantages to alcohol, esp driving under it's influence, though the possibilities in the psychedelic realm are vast. The possibilities thru meditation are endless.

I very much believe in education and sensible use on such matters as these. Psychedelics are not things to be taken lightly, or without the right set and setting.

Agreed. It really sucks that there are so many people in the world that just want to get messed up. In the past all my psychedelic journeys have been very spiritual. My friends and I aren't of the "let's see how high we can get" crowd. In fact, I have always thought that "less is more" when it comes to most drugs. I have gained unbelievable insights into my life, the world, etc through small doses and a clear head. I have also gained unbelievable insights into all things through my day-to-day living, as that is just how I live my life. I have a strong pull to start yoga soon, which I will. I just wanted to point out that I have never used mind-altering drugs to be the ticket, though they can be valuable directions to the train station.

I do agree with a lot of what you guys have said. There are many parallels between wisdom/info gained from psychedelic experiences and methods such as yoga and meditation. I do agree that yoga and meditation give more long term effects, though I think psychedelic experiences can open people up to certain ways of looking at things, which can then be pursued with a clearer head. Actually I was just chattin with my friends the other day about this and I brought up the fact that I believe ultimately we will be making the journey unaided (by drugs). If this is true, which I think many people agree with, it really confuses me when people come down on psychedelic explorers. I believe a lot of psychedelic drug users are looking to better their life, the world, or what have you, which is what yoga practitioners desire as well as those who meditate. With similar goals, how can one group criticize another?

[dRealM]

some interesting views.. in my past i enjoyed my share of the hallucinogens.. and then one day something hit me so hard I've never recovered.. i saw something or heard something that changed my life.. i think it was for the good.. I've always been open minded but this was a bit different.  i began searching for an answer and in that search i found AP and here and to many places i wouldn't have thought. 

but like i said i haven't recovered.. I'm still searching.. i don't know if AP is the answer or if it is another filter?  In the text books pot is considered a hallucinogen so this is my flaw.. it is really the only drug i use on a regular basis.. yes illegal.. why i don't know?  for me it mimics what people on the boards describe as AP or the feelings/vision/sounds people experience before they leave the physical.. i feel amazing vibrations all over my body.. it seems i can communicate with my mind.. very much like when I lay down sober and concentrate in attempting to AP.. I've felt the same things sober and under the influence of old mary.. why? 

many years ago when i was scared senseless of what was happening to me i quit.. dropped everything.. i didn't touch drugs for close to 5 years.. but i was still experiencing many of the same things awake as well as in dreams.. i couldn't figure it out.. i was convinced i quit smoking out of fear of what i was experiencing.. so i told my self i wasn't going to be scared anymore.. so facing my fear this past year has brought me many questions a few answers but mostly just more questions. 

In the past yes i did it for fun.. young kid. .i didn't know any better.  I'm a bit wiser now and I honestly feel this exploration is benefiting me.  It has brought me be back here again after not posting for ever.  scanning over some posts i ran into a post about Phasing by a dude named Frank who i would love to chat with.. anyways in his post on Phasing he goes into some detail how the astral plane isn't really a plane.. everything is connected.. my horrible explanation of it. I'm sure many of you have read it so I'm just going to state that I feel many of these things when i smoke and i don't think its just the drugs talking.. i think there is a connection..

anyone catch that?

[Astir]

Really? I heard they can make your brain bleed too. I also heard they make you pregnant and give you gonorrhea if you're not careful!

Yes. Really.

Psilocybin is a poison, and poisons pass through and are filtered by your liver.  Don't make me sing the Reading Rainbow song. ~Take a look! It's in a book!...~ You need to read more about drugs if you wish to defend the safety of their use. But go ahead, mock my warning and label it propaganda.

If someone with compromised liver function came in here thinking it might be a good idea to try them, then what I said could only help in their case. To those who worry anyway, I would reccommend taking milk thistle for a few days after taking mushrooms.

I would reccommend taking milk thistle if you regularly take tylenol 

[Novice]

Actually I was just chattin with my friends the other day about this and I brought up the fact that I believe ultimately we will be making the journey unaided (by drugs). If this is true, which I think many people agree with, it really confuses me when people come down on psychedelic explorers. I believe a lot of psychedelic drug users are looking to better their life, the world, or what have you, which is what yoga practitioners desire as well as those who meditate. With similar goals, how can one group criticize another?

It wasn't a criticism of drug users. I was simply stating my views on the subject. I've never done any type of drug at all. But I've known kids in high school and college who did. And everyone of them did it to have fun at first. Whenever there was a party, they had to take some -- "you know, just to have fun; loosen up a bit". Eventually I think it turned to a form of escapism -- and this goes for alcohol as well. Some enjoy a glass of wine with dinner. But others need a drink when they get home from work; or after finals in school; or to deal with a broken relationship; or whatever other hard to deal with physical problem they face. Drugs aren't spiritual to them -- its a fast means to a surreal world where they don't have to deal with what is facing them in physical life.

I also don't like what drugs do to the body of the user. I don't like anything that harms the body, regardless of the 'benefits' one can gain from it. But I also don't take 'legal' drugs either (motrin, tylenol, cold medicine, etc). As with all things in life there is a choice. Yes ibuprofin stops pain, but it is also hard on the liver. So what do you do? Live with the pain for awhile or let your liver take a 'hit or two' from the medicine? There is no right or wrong answer, which is why I am not criticizing your choice. I'm merely throwing out an alternative and hoping that you or others reading this post will get a balanced view of the subject and not just a one-sided answer.

The use of drugs to elicit other-worldly experiences goes back thousands of years. I think the most commonly known is peyote (I'm probably spelling that wrong). And often people will point to this as a practice and justify the use of drugs by saying its been done for a long time. Yes it has, but so has yoga and meditation without drugs. And, from what I remember (and I'm NOT an authority on this at all) these ancient civilizations used drugs only in ceremonial practicies or for specific issues. It was not a habitual use. They also had many rituals that needed to be followed prior to the use and even then, the drugs were not used by everyone. Only a select few were allowed to use them after a type of apprenticeship and then it was for the betterment of the people.

Even in meditation, people tend to get side-tracked at looking for the 'cool' experience. They focus not on the meditation, but on what they may experience during it. In my opinion, this defeats the purpose of meditation. One needs to get passed 'expecting' and simply 'be'. The goal is less important that the road taken to get there. Whereas with drugs, the 'cool' experiences are guaranteed each time.

I guess it all boils down to two things for me:

1) based on the people I know, drugs are used to escape problems instead of facing them; and
2) people want instant, immediate experiences

My experience has been that the difficulties we face in life and the way in which we deal with them is what makes us strong and helps us to grow. I don't think either one of those two things can be rushed.

Again, I'm not trying to criticize. Just throwing out my thoughts on the subject so that others reading will have differing views to consider.

[SilverSlider]

Ah damn the internet! haha well, I didn't mean the critisizing comment to be taken in a negative way. I agree that way too many people use drugs to escape though. I also limit my use of legal drugs...for health reasons and I think it's interesting watching my body cure itself...I like to see my humanity come through, it's refreshing.

dRealM: What did you see or hear? I'm curious. I interpreted it as just a sudden objective change in your feelings, which I could see happening to myself someday.

As I said before, I am not going to be surprised if I abandon all "artificial" means of stimulating my mind. I guess I won't be surprised if I don't either. I go with what benefits my life and in my life what benefits my life benefits others because I like helping people...

Astir...I will say you may be right, as anyone can be right about anything, but let's look at the definition of a poison:

From Dictionary.com

1.   a substance with an inherent property that tends to destroy life or impair health.
2.   something harmful or pernicious, as to happiness or well-being: the poison of slander.

These first two could be applied to those who argue the "bad trip" angle, as pschedelics such as LSD can impair health (mental) and could be harmful to one's well-being, but this is referring to a more psychological approach as implied by slander.

5.   to kill or injure with or as if with poison.
8.   Chemistry. to destroy or diminish the activity of (a catalyst or enzyme).

Now these two are probably more applicable to how people descibe psilocybin as a poison. I believe the second one actually illustrates this the best and I can second it from my biochem class. Poisons inhibit certain processes in the body, processes that are essential to life. In excess amounts, anything is a poison right? So we're essentially arguing HOW poisonous psylocibin is.

From Erowid:

"Psilocybin, psilocin and psilocybian mushrooms have very low toxicity - in tests with mice, doses up to 200 mg of pure psilocybin/kg of body weight have been injected intravenously without lethal effects (that would be 13 grams of pure psilocybin per average human (65 kg / 140 lbs). The ED50:LD50 ratio is 641 according to the NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects; compare this with 9637 for vitamin A, 4816 for LSD, 199 for aspirin and 21 for nicotine. According to Leo Hollister, Jonathon Ott, and John W. Allen, one would have to consume their body weight in fresh mushrooms or eat approximately 19 grams of the pure chemical substance to bring on death. "

And more from Erowid:

The following hallucinogenic species contain not psilocin/psilocybin but ibotenic acid, muscimol and related compounds:

    * Amanita citrine (syn A. mappa, A. citrina), A. muscaria var formosa, muscaria (*), pantherina, porphyria, A. muscaria var regalis, tomentella

(*) The famed "Fly Agaric" red toadstool with white warts.

"Amanita species cause 95% of all deaths from mushroom poisoning. The ones above are (reasonably) safe. The danger lies in incorrect identification.** Death by Amanita poisoning is reportedly an excruciating way to die, since they destroy liver tissue and the body's own wastes then kill you. Worse yet, noticeable negative effects do not begin until 3 days after ingestion, and by then it's too late. (Note - Silymarin found in Milk Thistle seeds is one of the only substances known to protect against a majority of the liver damage caused by poisonous Amanita species, but it needs to be taken immediately after ingestion, long before any negative effects are noticed.) I would seriously recommend against toying with these; most reports say they're not even fun. If you insist, consult other sources for more information."

** Here they are talking about picking wild mushrooms, which can be dangerous and shouldn't be undertaken without proper knowledge. "magic mushrooms" bought 'off the street' are typically grown and known with 100% certainty to be psilocybe mushrooms. There is no way to mistake amanitas for psilocybes.

I don't really feel like interpreting this data as it pretty much speaks for itself. I really dislike misinformation. I know soooo many people who go around saying the most bizarre stuff about mushrooms. I have done a TON of reading, don't worry.

[dRealM]

Silver

honestly i don't know how to explain what i saw.. i can describe the situation kind of..

i was surrounded by many people.. walking and talking with my friend right next to me, then instantly he and everyone around me started moving around like robots.. i was hearing weird noises and it seemed that the robots were moving to the beat of the noises.. i was confused.. then instantly everything snapped back to where i was.. right next to my friend.. him asking me what the hell just happend.. he told me i just went blank for a second stopped walking and froze.. for a second?? it felt like at least 2 minutes of confusion.. then i snapped out of it.  This is just the beginning of the night.  it later turned into a game of some kind.. go into the circle alone and leave with someone come back separate and repeat.. repeat.. repeat?? thats the best i can do.. not really much of an explanation. 

I'm making an animated short about some of my experiences.. it will be done in a few months.. i will post my website when everything is finished.  I just feel that i can visually explain myself better than with words.

but anyways i seem to experience these feelings and sounds.. i can hear people talking?? when i lay down and attempt to AP.  to me the similarities are undeniable.

[Enoch]

Most illegal drugs are less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes. It is a persons choice weather or not they want to do drugs not the government not any one elses. The reason they stay illegal is because one the government makes a killing off of people beinfg in jail and two they have a tendancy to make people see outside the box and again the governemnt cannot have anyone around thats not a good little sheep. 

[psychonaut]

i've eaten amanita muscaria. i ate 4/5 large dried caps...didn't do much of anything at all. maybe fresh would do something but i wouldnt even bother.

[dotster]

This is always a sticky subject. It will always be different for each individual, of course.

I have never done shrooms, but about a year ago I was in mexico staying with a friend of mine, and his grandfather was telling us about Salvia. He was telling us about how when children would turn a certain age, they would be given Salvia as a sort of initiation into adulthood. It was really an interesting story. He was a little hard to understand because his english wasn't that great, but he seemed to know a lot about it. The next day, he had some for us. He cautioned us about it first, and told us that if we wanted to try it, we could. He told us that we had to go into it with an open mind. It was, without a doubt, the most life changing experience. I know that some of you don't approve of this, and say that if anything, it hinders spiritual growth, but here I will disagree. If you believe that it willl hinder spiritual growth, then for you, it most likely will, but as in all situations in life, it's about how you approach the situation.

Suppose you were a child again, and your father askes you to add two numbers? Well, it turns out that you (being in your youth) have never heard of addition. Now, even though you have no idea what addition is, it is still of course very possible and very likely that you will figure out how to add all on your own, but how long will that take? And how will you know if it is infact addition that you are computing? So I guess you could say that my experience with Salvia was the equivilent of Dad showing me how to add.

Now, it is not something that I do on a daily, infact, that was the only time that I have and ever will do anything of that sort again. The reason being simply because I do not need it to experience that feeling anymore. I can always feel it now. It was a teacher to me, and I am forever grateful to my friends grandfather for what he gave me. It really has changed my life. Again, this is all just my own personal oppion.