Spirituality and Sobriety

[ThaomasOfGrey]

Is there any point to pursuing sobriety in the life experience as a human?

Some people take this concept to the extreme - denying themselves of even the most basic stimulant such as eating salt on food.

I have recently learned that pornography can measurably change brain behavior to the point that it is equal or more damaging than some drug addictions. Similarly those that suffer ADHD experience reduced dopamine sensitivity to the point of losing interest in reality.

I have had ADHD most of my life, diagnosed by a child psychologist. I look back at my life and think, what part of it hasn't been addiction?

You may disagree but after learning more about the way dopamine acts in the brain I have come to think that every human behavior is rooted in addiction. It is not possible to experience something enjoyable, regardless of whether it is positive or negative, without the brain attaching to that behavior and lamenting its absence.

For instance consider a parent's love for their child or an athlete that loves sports. On a chemical level it is the same as a drug addiction.

We tend to ignore positive addictions and gloss over the ones we aren't aware of. Consider addiction to the comfort of being warm, a luxury many early humans didn't enjoy often.

What is the point of sobriety? Is it even possible for the human mind? Is quitting eating salt wasting a lifetime of possible experiences?

Sometimes I wonder if astral projection is such a great experience that it dominates the human mind. Perhaps this is why the projection experiences I have never live up to a fraction of what I know they can be.

[Xanth]

The chemicals themselves are meaningless.
The "INTENT" (there's that word again!) behind *WHY* you take them is all that matters.

Do you just enjoy having a drink once in a while?
Do you just prefer a bit of salt on your meals?
Are you trying to escape from this reality?

It's all about INTENT.  Intent is what drives your spiritual growth.

[Bloodshadow]

my addiction is Astral projection, but only because i'm trying to reach the goal of merging with my higher self, and become something more, to help heal this world, and because of this pursuit, i have failed at actually projecting at all, which brings on depression. I've projected a few times, but at those times I wasn't on the pursuit, though I was always on the pursuit of searching for a at to come into the powers that was taken from me in another life, anyway once I started the pursuit my projections stopped completely.

[Xanth]

my addiction is Astral projection, but only because i'm trying to reach the goal of merging with my higher self, and become something more, to help heal this world, and because of this pursuit, i have failed at actually projecting at all, which brings on depression. I've projected a few times, but at those times I wasn't on the pursuit, though I was always on the pursuit of searching for a at to come into the powers that was taken from me in another life, anyway once I started the pursuit my projections stopped completely.

Wanna know the kicker of your goal?

You ALREADY are the "something more" you're searching for.
You ALREADY have the power to help heal this world.

Projecting doesn't give you anything that isn't already there... you just lack perspective. 
Projection doesn't give perspective.  That only comes from within.

[ThaomasOfGrey]

The chemicals themselves are meaningless.
The "INTENT" (there's that word again!) behind *WHY* you take them is all that matters.

Do you just enjoy having a drink once in a while?
Do you just prefer a bit of salt on your meals?
Are you trying to escape from this reality?

It's all about INTENT.  Intent is what drives your spiritual growth.

Pretty good answer, I like it, but I'll delve deeper into the edge cases.

What if your best intentions yield a bad result?

I really enjoy playing e-sport video games. They are a cesspool of miserable people honestly, due to the dopamine mechanics. Winning, or rather, participating to your fullest in these events gives a tremendous high. The brain anticipates this high and encourages the behavior that leads to it, for the first 5 minutes of the game.

When things start looking bad (the brain realizes the hit isn't coming) you get the punishment (reduced dopamine output). At this point players lash out at their allies or any blame factor in frustration, classic addiction behavior.

I caught onto this pattern a long time ago and have tried to modify my attitude to avoid it by not being attached winning or even having a fun experience. Fundamentally though, the brain doesn't care what your intent is for this particular session. You either get the hit that your brain remembers from last time or you get the punishment.

I am left wondering what the answer is:

a) Modify your intent such that any result yields the same dopamine hit.

Not sure if that is practically achievable. Some results are always going to be better than others or we live a mono existence with no direction.

b) Accept the low as being a possible outcome and call the intent OK.

Achievable but maintains the status quo.

c) Quit any activity or behavior where your intent doesn't yield the correct results.

Not really a good rule of thumb, quitting the activity just because the result isn't always correct could lead to harm too.


At the extreme of the concept of eating salt I wonder whether any amount of intent can defeat the brain's ability to remember the reward. Simultaneously pursuing a sober existence is practically impossible in the modern day where even looking at an image of a landscape on a computer is more stimulation than a wild human's brain is prepared for.

I wonder what happens when the chemicals go away; how does addiction operate in pure consciousness beings.

[Bloodshadow]

Wanna know the kicker of your goal?

You ALREADY are the "something more" you're searching for.
You ALREADY have the power to help heal this world.

Projecting doesn't give you anything that isn't already there... you just lack perspective.  
Projection doesn't give perspective.  That only comes from within.

well if that's the case, me doing this will act as a placebo effect to what I already have, and help me realize it or reactivate it for me its just a reassurance for me if anything so that I can start anew. also i hear a lot of people say Astral projection changes their perspective on life, or made them look at life differently, so why would it not do the same for me? I feeli need to go thru this process in order to help me believe what you said.

[Nameless]

Interesting thoughts Thomas. I do think chemicals/bacteria and viruses control much of our behavior. BUT we can change our chemical/bacterial and viral balance and pretty much control them also. First however we must be aware of how all these things affect us and us them.

So what does that say about spirituality, sobriety and astral projection? It says regardless of whether or not the world goes round and round we (our thoughts) certainly do. Of course I don't think anyone can actually answer this question but I'm pretty sure you weren't exactly expecting an answer so much as a discussion. It brings me back to that everlasting question - "Who's in charge here anyway?" lol

[ThaomasOfGrey]

Wanna know the kicker of your goal?

You ALREADY are the "something more" you're searching for.
You ALREADY have the power to help heal this world.

Projecting doesn't give you anything that isn't already there... you just lack perspective. 
Projection doesn't give perspective.  That only comes from within.

Even though I have quoted Xanth this post is a message for anyone.

There is always something more to search for that we aren't already. Like Campbell says, if you aren't growing you are either staying the same or dying, and staying the same is step one of dying.

What I think Xanth is getting at here though is like the old money saying. If you aren't happy with a dollar you won't be happy with a million dollars. Tao practitioners focus on accepting the self in the current state, after all, that is always where you are going to be - in the current state - with some future state to look up to.

Projecting absolutely can give you something that isn't already there. It is a learning experience like any other. The point is not to get caught up with a line of thought such as "I can succeed after grandiose event X". It might never come, and if it does, what if you look back and think that the waiting was simply a waste of time and you just needed to realize that now is the time.

Easier said than done though. Reading the words doesn't make it your reality until you have an experience that makes it real for you.