What do people think of Christs *real* teachings?

[amcturbo]

Hi Douglas,
Thanks for your response and well-wishes!  I've done some searching today on "Christianity" and "Reincarnation" and came up with a decent website at: http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen.html complete with scriptural references to Christianity and Reincarnation.  Very interesting reading.

I picked up the Gnostic Scriptures today at the library and will begin reading up on them.  I'm also waiting for my copy of the George M. Lamas "Bible" translation to arrive.  I'm also going to get "Jesus and the Essenes" book soon, as it is another hypnotic-regression book, where a woman discovers that she was an Essene (monk/priest) that was one of Jesus childhood teachers.  I'll also be reviewing the Apochrypha, The Dead Sea Scrolls and "The Lost Books of the Bible" ... those not cannonized.

When I think about the *possibility* that Christianity was "re-written" 1500-1700 years ago ... and that what we've all been taught for so long, *could* actually be far from the *truth* ... it makes me laugh, it actually makes my heart warm and fuzzy with laughter and I want to start chuckling!  If all of this new (to me) old information, hidden away for centuries, is true, then we've all been the recipient of the biggest practical joke in history (some would call it a scandal, others manipulation ... and they're right).  It will be really interesting to see what I discover in my research.

P.S.  If you find this all interesting, I recommend reading "The Messenger" and "Embraced by the Light" (also in Audio Book) ... they're both good (Messenger is great!).

Cheers!
Greg Taylor

"Whatever consciousness may be, it's not a small thing" - Ingo Swann
"Oh, I... ain't got no ... body" - David Lee Roth (Van Halen)

[Gandalf]

Hi Greg, I will certainly pick up those titles you mentioned.
With regards to your comments about certain parts of christianity being re-written, if you think about it, its no great suprise really, as the teachings had to be re-srtuctured so that they would at least have a chance of being accepted by the Roman public, its no wonder then that it was modified by quite a bit, as Jesus' teachings were never really originally targeted for Roman ears, they were very much seen as the enemy - 'the whore of Babylon' and all that!

The Romans re-structured the whole thing so that it was centralised and state orientated in keeping with typical roman tradition of religion and state being one, however, this is really what Jesus was NOT after as he preaching something on a much more personal basis, not state run. I think this is when things started going wrong.

Douglas

[pod3]

I'm not Catholic but am told they are responsible for the canonization, meaning the decision of what would stay or be stricken from the Bible. The King James version has no apocrypha, but the Catholic version does?

As for the issue of living foods, listen to what the plant tells your psychic ears as you prepare it for food. I understand why some people thought they would go insane when hearing the screaming mandrake roots. The plants are dead or dying horribly. Incidentally, the same galvonometer esperiments used to verify the emotionality of plants proved to work with minerals, as well. Plasmologists seem to be telling use that even the  crystals that make up all solids have the properties of life. You probably can't even inhale without killing some air.

The theory of imaculate conception was started by Catholics, too, if memory serves. It seems the word used for virgin is also used to describe any young woman. I awate more thorough research on the apocrypha as there were many mistated, ancient figures of speach that are only now being decoded from the King James Version. As our modern English is a dumbed down version of Old English, Old English is less expressive than the Biblical tongues, if you ask me and my concordance.

[bitsmart]

Wow, what a fascinating topic. I was raised with out religious beliefs imposed on me, which I heartily thank my parents for. I was left to make my own decisions, which I did. For so many years, I shyed away from the whole Christian thing, because it sounded so far-fetched to me and there was some concepts I didn't like.

Then a friend brought me to a Unity church. I won't go into the Unity movement here, you can research it yourself, but they do use the bible as their basis for spirituality. I happened to go on a day when they had sermon on this book, 'The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ.' The title comes from the astrological Age of Aquarius, supposedly starting very soon. Jesus heralded in the start of the Age of Pisces. Pisces means fish, like the fishy-looking symbol for Christians. This book is basically Jesus's teachings as geared towards the Aquarian age. I'm probably doing a poor job of explaining and describing this book, so I'll let you do your own research, though I'm surprised noone's mentioned it on this thread yet, so I'll try to explain what this book did for me.

First off, it dispelled some myths and helped me get comfortable with Jesus. I still don't buy a lot of what's written in the bible, but I no longer wholly discount Christianity. Second, this book really helped me to understand Jesus's teachings, not people's interpretations of his teachings.

This book was supposedly channeled from the Akashic Records by a man named Levi. It talks about so many things that were left out elsewhere about Jesus, including those missing 18 years, where according to this book, he DID go study with tibetans, yogis, the mystery schools of Egypt, in Greece, etc.

GET THIS BOOK if you are or ever were interested in Jesus and his teachings. I'm not a convert, as I'm not really part of any religion, but I'm assimilating Jesus into my spiritual practice and beliefs as a result of this book.

As far as other supposed records of Jesus's life and teachings, I think a lot was lost in translation, and a lot was edited out or changed for purposes of control. I don't mean to offend anyone and I respect people's beliefs, but dogmatic beliefs and organized religion, in my eyes, are more about control than spirituality. I won't say more than this, because this is a very touchy subject. My parents told me never to argue about two things, religion and politics, so I'm simply stating my opinion.

If you've read The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, I'd like to hear your opinion on it.

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -

[pod3]

Why by the channeled book when the scripture says not to go to a channeler? A Christian would tell you that, on account of being the actual temple himself, he is spoken to by God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit all the time.

Would the originator of the post referense the specific verses for us?

In the Torah, there is talk of man having to eat animals, which ones to eat, how to cook them, and how the cooked animals are to be divided. The altars were big, open ovens on which oil and grains were both placed. The Bible  is not always case-specific, but EVERYTHING is clearly categorized. I feel this may be a case of the interpreter preaching alternate doctrines, when every connotation of every translated word and phrase leave no questions to be asked.

[bitsmart]

Perhaps channeled was the wrong word, how does this sound: A man named Levi transcribed the book from the Akashic Records.

Anyway, the Bible is channeled material, so to say not to trust channeled material is a contradiction.

You don't have to believe it, you don't even have to read it, but don't discount it just like that because it's "channeled". I did a poor job of introducing the book, but I had to say something, not just "Hey there's a really book on Jesus called the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ, you should really read it." This is nothing like all the "channeled material" you'll find in the New Age world, so if that's what came to mind when you heard the word "channeled," I assure you this is very different.

bitsmart -
information illumination -
bitsmart@bitsmart.org -

[amcturbo]

Hi everyone,
I'm back to add to the reading list of material about JESUS, among other LIFE TOPICS.  I've read some Edgar Cayce books, which shed A LOT of light on the LIVES of JESUS and HISTORY as it happened.

Edgar Cayce (1877-1945) was a FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIAN, who was given the gift of accessing the Hall of Records WHILE ASLEEP ... with ZERO CONSCIOUS RECALL afterwards.  For 20 years, he helped people by accessing their Akashic records and providing details about their illnesses (Health Readings) and cures to fix them.  He had a high success rate of around 80% ... and all of his "readings" have been documented.  After 20 years, someone thought to ask him "other" metaphysical questions ... and the whole issue of REINCARNATION was channelled from the Akashic Records ... this initially brought much heartache to him as a Christian.  Later on, though, after much prayer and consideration, he continued giving Life Readings, in which TONS of biblical history and reincarnation were fundamentals of LIFE.  Very interesting reading ... very thought provoking.  Edgar Cayce performed over 14,000 readings for over 5,000 people over a period of 40+ years.  He is the most hightly documented psychic ever.

Here's a list of books to read:
1)  Edgar Cayce on the Dead Sea Scrolls
 This book details how the Essenes were intimately involved in providing the appropriate channels for the Messiah (Jesus) to be brought into the world.  Details the upbringing of Mary and Joseph, for their roles as the Messiah's eathly parents.  Details how the Immaculate Conception occured.  Mary was the twin soul of Jesus (in the beginning).  Details Jesus upbringing and education ... in Egypt, In Persia, In India, etc.  Details the disciples and such, plus much, much more!

2)  The Mound Builders
 this book is about the many Indian Mounds in the USA and how they were built by a combination of Atlantean, Lemurian, Hebrew, Norse ... and are representative of the experiences in Atlantis (for the most part).  Details how the North American mounds are aligned to Lunar and Solar cycles, as well as representations of constelations in the skies, etc.

3)  Edgar Cayce on Atlantis
 This book is about ATLANTIS, it's destruction ... caused by infighting between "The Sons of Belial" (hedonistic) and "The Sons of the Law of One" (spiritual ... of One God).  Also details their fleeing the destruction of Atlantis ... to USA, Gobi, Egypt, Europe.  That Altantis was off of the Eastern US coast of Florida, and that it will rise again, beginning in 1968/69.

4)  Edgar Cayce's Story of Jesus
 I'm currently 1/3 way through this book.  Details how Jesus (The Master) had THIRTY INCARNATIONS up to the time of Jesus the Christ (as we know Him).  Details about his various incarnations, etc.

So, what do these books have in common?  They all have very central CORE themes that add alot to LIFE and shed light on a lot of topics that have been mysteries for centuries ... or MADE MYSTERIES for centuries.  All of these books really fit well together, painting a much bigger picture.

So, you might be thinking, is this Cayce Material valid?  What do I do with it?  With an 80% track record, it does make you consider much.

READ THESE BOOKS and decide for yourself what you think about all of it.

There are some refernences in the Bible about reincarnation.  Jesus spoke of John the Baptist (his cousin) being Elijah the prophet, come again (reincarnated).  Jesus often spoke of Karma, as well.

Cheers!
Greg Taylor

"Whatever consciousness may be, it's not a small thing" - Ingo Swann
"Oh, I... ain't got no ... body" - David Lee Roth (Van Halen)

[Robin]

You can read lots of books from 20 different types of bibles to the Nag Hammadi Library and what it boils down to is "LOVE"...

You answer for your life.

The more you love the more you've grown. Also I have found learning about Christ' cross has helped me greatly.


Kind Regards, Robin
http://www.visionsofjesuschrist.com/

[amcturbo]

quote:Originally posted by Robin:
You can read lots of books from 20 different types of bibles to the Nag Hammadi Library and what it boils down to is "LOVE"...

Robin,
Thanks for sharing this, it is so true!  Jesus summed up the entire Scriptures in Matthew 22:34-40, stating this about LOVE ...

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"  Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'  This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'  All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

P.S.  ROBIN, I just emailed you my "Christ Encounter" for your website.

Cheers!
Greg Taylor

"Whatever consciousness may be, it's not a small thing" - Ingo Swann
"Oh, I... ain't got no ... body" - David Lee Roth (Van Halen)

[Robin]

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

How beautiful!

Kind Regards,
Robin

[the_demigod]

I ain't redoing my HUUUUUUUGE reply post, cause whats the point?

Vendi, Vidi, Vici, Mucho denero.
[I came, I saw, I conquered, I got paid--my mercenary motto]

[Jenadots]

Interesting responses to so many questions about Jesus.  We know that the Bible as we have  it has gone through many translations and translators, some of whom had issues with what he might have actually taught.  Also, many items were left out and exist somewhere in the Vatican libraries and monastary archives.  Few people, if any, outside the Church is allowed to see or review them.  So who knows what he actually said and did.  I have always believed he had a lot more to say than just the few items that have come down to us over the past 2000 years.   Medieval Europeans would not have taken well to the idea that women were equal to men or that God has a feminine side.  Nor would they have accepted the idea that one can be a holy and good person without being a Christian.  

Was Jesus a vegetarian?  Not likely given the times and the culture he grew up in.  As a Jewish child, he would have eaten lamb, fish, goat, fowl, as well as foods that could be grown.  As a man of the people, he would have joined in their meals.  

Also, as a Rabbi, he certainly could read and write.  Perhaps not in Latin or Greek, but in ancient Hebrew/Aramaic.  However, if he wrote anything at all, it too has disappeared or is kept hidden.   My impression has always been that he wanted to reform the Jewish religion rather than start a new one.  He probably did have the highest consciousness of anyone that has ever lived, perhaps to give us a hint of what the ultimate human destiny might be.  I try to read the Bible with an attitude of "what rings true here."  I do believe he said "Love thy neighbor as thyself."  Considering some of the people we encounter every day and others in the world today, that is a mighty hard thing to do.  Even if that is the only thing that is true, it is a very important lesson.  

Unfortunately, what too many religions have made of it translates to include only those who think and believe as you do.  And too many people believe they have the only truth about God that exists.  The Christ legends, stories, and New Testaments have been altered and we may never know for certain what he said or meant us to believe.  But the Christ spirit - that is something else again and I think it exists in all living things.  Hopefully, he thought so too, but that teaching has not come down to us.

[Gandalf]

Emperor Constantine has a lot to answer for. He had a huge influence on Christianity and injected his own interpretations/ideas into church meetings and christian doctrine. Also Constantine really only adopted christianity for political support, he was still a 'pagan' in heart, he is not as 'holy' as christians make him out, in fact he was only baptised on his deathbed!
It was at one famous meeting at Nicea that a vote was taken to reject the concept of re-inacrnation, and the desician to make Jesus officially a god rather than just a prophet.

The prophet part I don't see as important as I always viewed Jesus as a man (all be it advanced on a spiritual level), I don't buy this imaculate conception stuff.. Mary and joseph were married but they never had sex.. suddenly mary is pregnant... COME ON! How anyone is meant to believe that one!
As I said earlier, the imaculate conception story was added in later and smacks of roman invention as the idea of mortals being impregnated by gods is an old classical idea, randy Apollo used to do this all the time, often priesteses of Apollo became pregnant 'imaculately'.. (yea right)

The re-incarnation aspect is VERY important however, as it alters the very fundamentals of christianity, the fact that it was rejected in the 4th century but was readily accepted before then shows us the scale of difference that must exist between early christianity and post Constantine christianity.
Then we get to Augustine, and things really get interesting.

For me, christianity was hijacked by the Roman state, thereafter religion and state were one as it is today really... I don't this was jesus' intention, what with churches and all that, I think he meant it much more as a personal religion/belief system.... The Romans on the other hand were used to the idea of religion and state as one, so christianity was altered to suit this need.

Douglas

[PeacefulWarrior]

To be honest I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if my own post is somewhat out of line from the most recently discussed ideas...

First of all I want to thank Gandalf (sounds like I am writing a speech or something huh!) for bringing this topic up.  As most of you know, I am indeed a Christian...in fact I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

The main thing that comes to my mind when the discussion of Christian writings arises is this: there is ONLY ONE WAY we can know the truth, by the SPIRIT.  Writings are of man, even when they are divinely inspired...and while they can be "living water" or in other words wonderful and alive, they can also be twisted, changed, etc.  as many of you have pointed out.  We must always think for ourselves, we must question...and then we must turn to the source for clarification.  

The Dead Sea Scrolls actually contained bits and peices of Isiah and other Old Testament texts and when compared to the same texts in the modern Bible they matched up beautifully....but there were many "plain and precious truths" regarding the nature of God and man that were lost.  Christianity and the teachings of the Savior today range from gross distortions of the truth to pure truth....but it's up to us to find truth for oursleves.  We can never rely on temporal sources in the search for TRUTH.
-----------------------
Gandlaf- as a side note, I believe that many of the things you have suggested are original teachings of Christ indeed are, but others seem to have been devised by men to propogate their own beliefs.



fides quaerens intellectum

[amcturbo]

This has been and continues to be a GREAT TOPIC.  We all have such varying viewpoints and thoughts on these discussions.  As I mentioned above, regarding the Edgar Cayce books, I am now about 95% completed reading "The Edgar Cayce Story on Jesus" by Jeffrey Furst.  Once again, I really want to encourage you to READ THESE BOOKS.  

Hey Gandalf, here's some food for thought ... from the Edgar Cayce readings.  TWICE, he gives readings STATING that Marry (Jesus mother) WAS IMMACULATELY CONCIEVED as well and that she was the TWIN SOUL of the Christ (the soul) (Jesus ... the man).  The Cayce readings also go on to give the details of HOW an IMMACULATE conception occurs ... the pressing of spirit into flesh ... which apparently was what occured when souls, in the beginning, become "overinvolved" in Creation and lost "track" of their divine origin ... thusly, the FIRST FALL occured.

I highly recommend the Edgar Cayce material listed ... it has added A LOT of Truth to my searching and has filled in A LOT of gaps in Scripture, which have left me wondering and confused.

Enough for now ... everyone have a wonderful and blessed New Year's Eve!  Chat with you all "next year!"

Cheers!
Greg Taylor

"Whatever consciousness may be, it's not a small thing" - Ingo Swann
"Oh, I... ain't got no ... body" - David Lee Roth (Van Halen)

[Spirit Raven]

Hi All,
First I would like to say that this thread and all the replies are very interesting and a lot of good/valid points have been made. I, myself, tend to resist organized religion since "their way is the only right way" seems to be pushed down your throat....and blind faith is paramount. Especially in the various Christian sects.  I believe that it's not which path you take (ie. one religion over another or no religion at all) but the goal that is important. What might be "true" for one person does not mean it is the only way for everyone......we all are individuals as has been stated before. I also agree that Jesus was actually trying to reform the Jewish church....lots of corruption (just like the Catholic church, as well as others, of today). I feel also that there should always be some flexibility in any religion to grow and evolve or change with the times. What may be practical for one era does not automaticly make it so for all eras. The only thing constant in this univers is change. It is very sad how his teachings have been twisted to suit others agendas.
I personally don't see how fire could be evil....how else did people in other climates stay warm? As for cooking food.....yes I can see where fruits and vegies in their raw states are better for you......but it is not always possible in many climates to have such things on a constant basis. Yes, nuts, beans and legumes have a lot of protein (beans and cornbread make a complete protein) but meat has protein and fat that is just as important for the body. Ok, I will quit now.....I tend to get carried away lol.
Anyway, I ran across a site a few days ago that you might find interesting.....whether or not you believe it, since belief is always a personal choice.
http://www.karenlyster.com/gardner.html
It makes for an interesting read no matter how you want to take it!

Dance to the music of your dreams, enjoy the steps along the way and keep smiling!

[Gandalf]

I am interested to hear other peoples opinion of Christs *original* teachings as revealed by the dead sea scrolls and the original Aramaic manuscripts translated by Edmond Szekely. Both 1st Century AD manuscripts now reside at the Vatican and at the Royal library of the Habsburgs in Austria.

I am amazed at how much of Christs teachings have been dropped and twisted over time. Perhaps the most striking ommission is the whole feminine aspect - as well as the heavenly Father, we also have the Earthly Mother, she is responsible for your body as the  Father is esponsible for your spirit.
The Earthly Mother has her own angels, of the air, the trees, the water etc, and she resides on/in the Earth as the Father resides in Heaven.

There is a second verse following the prayer to the heavenly father (now known as the Lords prayer) this is called the prayer to the earthly Mother,
'Earthly Mother, who resides upon Earth...' and so on.

It perhaps is not suprising that in a patriarchal society this feminine aspect was left out, the original holy trinity was 'The Father, The Mother and the Son'

Another factor left out was Christ's obssesion with a *very* strict form of vegetarianism. 'Nothing dead may pass your lips'.
Basically all fruit and veg is ok, milk is ok but thats it.
Oh, and don't even think of starting a fire, no cooking is permitted either.
all food must be as the Earthly mother intended it.
Jesus does permit bread but only if it is prepared only using sunlight to bake it.

Also the 'thou shall not kill' statement Jesus further applies to ALL life, animal as well, you may not kill for pleasure or for food or for an animals hide, so those leather shoes are out the window then.

Personally, I think that Jesus lost it here a bit as these kind of statements are far to strict and I don't see how he thought anyone would adhere to them, no cooked food? Come on...
I'm not suprised that after his death his diciples and later christians *revised* some of his teachings.

On the other hand his statement that living food is good for you as dead food kills you, sounds possible when you think about energy. Many energy workers today say that you will get more energy sustenance from fruit and veg (because it is still alive) than you would from dead or cooked food, so Jesus may have a valid point here, although he takes it too far by saying that it is sinful  to eat anything apart from uncooked fruit and veg.

What is also clear is that while many christians can get out of many aspects of *revised* christian teaching simply by stating the bits they don't like are 'symbolic'. This can be done easliy as the New Testement is so self contadictory, and confusing due to its repeated re-translation and revising/chopping over years.
With Christs original teachings however there is no ambiquitiy. Its all clear and to the point with no room for maneuvre. He tells you like it is, no meat, no cooked food, no leather shoes, sorry pal I'm not being symbolic here.
Jesus even gives us complete instructions for baking bread by using the sunlight as fire is 'from satan'

I would be interested to hear from any christians, that is those that adhere to the New testiment, and how they can reconcile this later work with Jesus original teachings.
How do they still adhere to later catholic/protestant/babtist/whatever teachings when anyone can go and look at Christ's original teachings and see how much has been left out?

I would say though that Jesus was for certain going over the top with his veggie diet and no kill policy.
What do others think, is it right that these teachings were dropped?

BTW as far as I'm aware in the original works there is no reference for miraculous births etc, this was added in later.
In fact an 'immaculate conception' that is impregnation of a mortal woman by a god was a very common classiclal motif.. Apollo was doing it all the time.
Roman Christians simply adapted this motif for their christian mythology, however in the 1st Century AD these do not appear to have been formulated yet.


Regards,
Douglas