A Fresh Look at Heaven

[Berserk]

New Agers and OBE adepts often prematurely contrast their experiences of the heavens and hells with a crude caricature of the biblical perspective.
This thread is intended to bring astral projectors into a more meaningful dialogue with the insights of early Christian tradition.  This goal will be pursued by addressing these 8 neglected questions:
 
1. What is the purpose of Heaven?
2. Can our deceased loved ones monitor our spiritual progress?
3. Are the recently deceased more spiritually evolved than they were in
   this life?  
4. Is Heaven a realm for evolutionary soul progression?
5. From a biblical perspective, is it possible for "spiritual" or "godly" non-
   Christians to go directly to Heaven after death?
6. Can the biblical Hell be reconciled with the New Age Hells and the Hells
   experienced through OBEs?
7. Can people be retrieved from Hell and brought up to Heaven?
   [a more in depth response than my earlier post]
8.  Did the early Christians practice astral projection?

It will take me a few days to answer these questions.   So please be patient.

Berserk

[Berserk]

1. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF HEAVEN?

We find a hint of Heaven's purpose in Romans 11:36: "For from Him and through Him and back to Him are all things."  This cyclical vision of creation already hints that eternal damnation is not the final fate of anyone who desires salvation.   The most intriguing expression of Heaven's purpose can be found in 2 Peter 1:4: "He [God] has given His very great and precious promises, so that through them YOU MAY PARTICIPATE IN THE DIVINE NATURE."  Here Peter expresses the Bible's most glorious prospect for humanity: Heaven is not an end in itself; it is merely a vehicle to help us achieve a profound union with God, a union which expands God's horizons in ways we cannot fathom.  Our mission is to help God enrich and upgrade His essence and experience in ways that please Him (Her).

Peter's claim expresses much more than the traditional doctrine that we are created in God's image.   It expresses an idea very similar to the claim of certain astral adepts that we are all part of God.   When skeptics take offense at Jesus' claim to be God's Son, He responds that in a profound sense all humans are gods (John 10:33-36, citing Psalm 82:6).  But humble submission to God's will is required in this life.  Our full realization of our divine status must await the completion of our long postmortem spiritual journey.  

In His human manifestation, Jesus has "emptied" Himself of His divine prerogatives, and so, even He can temporarily distinguish Himself from God (Mark 10:18).  But He preexists as God (John 1:1-2, 14) and, after His resurrection, is restored to His full divine nature and prerogatives (Philippians 2:9-11).

[Berserk]

2. CAN OUR DECEASED LOVED ONES MONITOR OUR SPIRITUAL    
   PROGRESS?

Astral adepts routinely report the astral presence of discarnate human guides who are well informed about the needs of these explorers.  The role of these guides is anticipated by a neglected affirmation in the Apostle's Creed: "I believe in the communion of saints."  This doctrine extends the gaze and ministry of deceased saints beyond the boundaries of Heaven.   The doctrine finds eloquent expression in Hebrews 12:1: "Therefore, SINCE WE ARE SURROUNDED BY SUCH A GREAT CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us."  The Greek "martus" (= "witness") implies the sense of "spectator".  This nuance is clear from Hebrews' only other reference to witnesses (10:28).  As one commentary on Hebrews 12:1 puts it,

""`Witnesses' does not mean `spectators', but those who have borne witness to the truth, or those enumerated in chapter 11.  Yet the idea of spectators is implied, and is really the principle idea.  The writer's picture is that of an arena in which the Christians. . .are contending in a race, while the vast host of the [deceased] heroes of faith. . .watches the contest from the  encircling tiers of the arena, compassing and overhanging it like a cloud, filled with interest and sympathy, and lending heavenly aid."

Jesus stresses the intense awareness and emotional involvement of the righteous dead in our spiritual progress: "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous persons who do no need to repent (Luke 15:7)."  This saying leaves unclear whether it is angels or saints who are rejoicing.  But His ensuing comment makes it clear that He has deceased saints in mind: "I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of angels of god over one sinner who repents (Luke 15:10)."  Here it is not the angels who rejoice, but deceased humans dwelling in the angels' presence.  

Even before death, the righteous continue to promote our spiritual welfare.  They are aware of our suffering and intercede for us that God may establish His justice on earth (Revelation 6:9-10).  The intercessory work of the righteous is implied by the poetic visionary image of Revelation 5:8: ". . .the 24 elders feel down before the Lamb [= Christ].  Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints."  In other words, the righteous dead are in some way involved in the success of our intercessory prayers.

Discarnate saints can intervene at crucial points in history.  The Catholic Bible describes the role of a high priest and the prophet Jeremiah (both deceased) in assisting Jewish freedom fighters in their successful attempt to liberate Israel from the occupying Syrian Greek armies (2 Maccabees 15:11-16).  Belief in this type of discarnate human intervention prompts some at Christ's cross to muse: "Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him (Matthew 27:9)."  Moses and Elijah materialize in the presence of Peter, James, and John to discuss Jesus' imminent fulfillment of His redemptive mission (Luke 9:30-31).

In Matthew Jesus teaches that "the kingdom of God HAS COME NEAR (10:7)" and "the kingdom of God HAS COME UPON YOU (12:28)."  In
Aramaic the word for "kingdom" means "reign" and "realm".  In other words, Jesus means that the heavenly dimensions can become accessible to you.  so Moses and Elijah return from the kingdom of God to converse on a mountain with a transfigured Jesus in front of 3 of His disciples.

[Palehorse]

I hope you don't mind if I toss in my .02 on these questions, Berserk.  And for what it's worth, I always find your posts interesting and insightful.  

1. What is the purpose of Heaven?

Well, Jesus said in both the canonical gospels and some of the Gnostic ones that "the kingdom of Heaven is within you."  Thus, "heaven" is a state of mind that you achieve and take with you; your geographical location is irrelevant.  In light of this, I'd say its purpose is spiritual development and union with God.  Heaven is not about going "somewhere" when you die if you've been good, professed the right creed, or anything else -- Heaven is about how far you've come in rending the artificial and self-imposed veil between yourself and God.

2. Can our deceased loved ones monitor our spiritual progress?


The simple answer: if they want to, sure.  I don't think they're compelled to though by any means.  The afterlife is all about freedom (or at least as much freedom as you're prepared to experience) and I'm sure they do have their own affairs to tend to on the other side, after all.  Then again, since I don't believe they experience time as linear as we do, it's probably possible to get an eternity of stuff done while still checking in on your living friends and relatives every now and then, without having lost any time either way.

3. Are the recently deceased more spiritually evolved than they were in
this life?

Depends.  If you've never had an OBE, then I would think the mere firsthand experience of conscious existence outside the body would be a quantum leap for most people.  Then again, if you don't handle your death well, don't realize you've died, or end up in one of the lower "hellish" realms, it might be more of a sticky issue.  On the other side of the coin, if you're a mystic with a good number of frequent flier miles accumulated on the astral plane already, then death would probably just be experienced as a seamless continuation of one's evolution.

4. Is Heaven a realm for evolutionary soul progression?

Within the framework of what I said about Heaven above, yes.

5. From a biblical perspective, is it possible for "spiritual" or "godly" non-
Christians to go directly to Heaven after death?

If they're spiritually developed and their only problem is mistaken theology, then I would think that all they'd need as a simple "hi, I'm Jesus, and this is the way things really are" to clear the air.  Then again, judging by the current state of things, I'd probably say that most Christians will be in for much of the same as well.

6. Can the biblical Hell be reconciled with the New Age Hells and the Hells
experienced through OBEs?

No, because the biblical "hell" is not anything close to the traditional hell.  Short explanation: four different words have all been translated as hell, the problem being that they all meant different things.  Sheol/Hades refer to "the grave" of all the dead.  Gehenna was a literal flaming trash dump just outside Jerusalem.  Tartarus was a sort of prison where "sinning angels" await judgment, and appears only once.  So, while the new age hells may or may not be real, they aren't talked about in the canonical Bible.

7. Can people be retrieved from Hell and brought up to Heaven?

I don't believe one's chance for progress and evolution ever expires, so yes.

[a more in depth response than my earlier post]
8. Did the early Christians practice astral projection?

Asking whether the early Christians did just about anything can't really be answered in any definitive way, since Christian communities until about the 4th century were so diverse in their beliefs and practices.  That said, there's a lot of stuff in the Bible that sounds suspiciously like AP-related phenomena, and a lot more in much of the extrabiblical material, so I think we can be relatively sure that at least some of them were doing it.  I'd say it was probably much like it is today -- there are people who are more mystically inclined, and others (probably the majority) who aren't so much concerned with such things.  I wouldn't be surprised if many Gnostic groups practiced it as an official part of their religion, but unfortunately they were secretive, and later surpressed, to the point that we know very little about their actual practices.  Anyway, there's a great book I just picked up that you might be interested in: Lost Christianities, by Bart Ehrman.  It looks at a lot of what information we do have about these dissenting groups, and really goes into the question of where we'd be today if any one of these groups had won the favor of Constantine (or if none of them had) instead of the "proto-orthodox."

On toward the middle ages, I think AP probably would've been less frequent, or at least less open; I'd think the medieval Catholic church would've frowned on such things as being demonic.  Also, Christian mystics of that period seemed to view such things as just another distraction, and there was a desire to completely bypass all of it in favor of moving toward direct union with God.

For what it's worth though, I differ with them on this.  To me it's like sprinting the whole way on one's journey, without paying any mind to the sights or experiences along the way.  IMO, we'll have all eternity to achieve union with God, but all the experiences along the way aren't something to be passed over.  I want to experience everything I can (including everything the astral plane has to offer), and I believe it'll make total union all that much greater when I get there.

[Berserk]

[I welcome Palehorse's interruption of my responses to questions 1-8. I agree with most of what he says and find no contradiction of what I have said and will say in this thread.]

3. ARE THE RECENTLY DECEASED MORE SPIRITUALLY EVOLVED THAN
   THEY WERE IN THIS LIFE?

Parts of Heaven would be quite unpleasant if hypocritical and divisive Christians entered Heaven with little change in their level of spiritual development.  So most Christians seem to assume that at death they will enter Heaven as a finished product, as if they will suddenly become exemplars of moral perfection.   They support this assumption by citing Revelation 21:27: "Nothing impure will enter it [the New Jerusalem = Heaven], nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life."  But the language here is not as precise as they assume.  John is simply saying that the `insiders' will not be wicked like the `outsiders': "OUTSIDE are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood (22:15)."  So 21:27 leaves open the possibility that the residents of Heaven's lower levels might be less than wicked, but might still retain moral flaws.    

Many Christians mistakenly believe that 1 Corinthians 13:12 rules out this possibility: "Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face.  Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known."  This verse echoes the Greek translation of Numbers 12:6, 8: "When a prophet of the Lord is among you, I reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams. . . With Moses I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles."  Paul is not teaching that at death believers become omniscient or morally perfect.  He is saying that in Heaven we will experience Moses' more intimate relationship with God.  We will not be limited by to the "riddles" created by our murky earthly visions of the divine.  We will telepathically know each other's thoughts and motives just as Heaven has direct access to our thoughts and motives.
(See e.g. Luke 12:2-3).

Many Christians imagine that the very best deceased saints will not continue to be more spiritually advanced; rather, they will simply be rewarded with more lavish "mansions".  It never occurs to them that at death we will be the same morally flawed creatures that we were in this life.  We forget that it is precisely our strong inclinations towards evil that enhance our free will and increase the value of our free choice of the good.  We also forget that we are saved by grace, not by superior character.  But if we enter the next life just as we are now, this already points to the possibility of postmortem evolutionary soul progression.

[Berserk]

4. IS HEAVEN A REALM FOR EVOLUTIONARY SOUL PROGRESSION?

Astral adepts report many heavenly levels, not a solitary Heaven.  The New Testament witness agrees and, in so doing, implies evolutionary soul progression as the means of promotion from one heavenly level to another.   Jesus tells His disciples, "In my Father's house are many dwelling places (Greek: "mone"). . .I am going there to prepare a place for you (John 14:2-3)."  There are two intriguing implications here: (a) The Christians' dwelling place is contrasted with many others.  One can only speculate about what these other dwelling places might be: e.g. a place for angels, a place for intelligent creatures from prior divine creations, a place for the righteous from non-Christian traditions, more advanced places for Christians as they evolve, etc.  (b) "Mone" ("dwelling places") can also mean "inn".  So Jesus might be implying that the disciples' initial heavenly abode will merely be a pit stop en route to more advanced locales.

Intertestamental Jewish thought accepts a multiplicity of heavens, but disagrees on the exact number (3, 5, 7, or 10?).  Paul once traveled out of body or via a vision to Paradise which he locates in "the third heaven" (2 Corinthians 12:2-3).  An apocalyptic Jewish work, 2 Enoch (written from 1-50 AD), also locates Paradise in the third heaven and identifies this as one of ten heavens.  "Paradise" is an old Persian term that means "park" or "garden" and serves as an initial but merely preliminary locale for the righteous (so the Apocalypse of Moses 37:5).  Thus, the crucified Jesus assures the penitent dying thief, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)."

The location of Paradise in the third heaven implies that there are two "lower" heavens ("Lower" here need not have a spatial sense.)  But Paradise is the preferred initial destination for Christians.  So these lower heavens seem reserved for Christians and others who are not yet spiritually ready for Paradise and points beyond.  In my view, Paul provides a glimpse of these lower heavens in his discussion of the fate of divisive believers who build on the foundation (= Christ) "wood, hay, or straw" instead of "gold, silver, or costly stones" (1 Corinthians 3:12).  Paul adds, "If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.  If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; HE HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, YET SO AS BY FIRE (3:14-15)."  In rabbinic literature, the expression "saved so as by fire" refers to a year-long stint in Gehenna designed for the purification of spiritually mediocre souls.  But the more immediate background of 2 Corinthians 12:2-3 is 2 Enoch which also locates Paradise in the third heaven and which identifies the second heaven as a place for "apostates."

Many Christians assume that Heaven resembles a gigantic Disney World theme park.  Perhaps, they will occasionally visit the Jesus pavilion and pay their respects.  But they will leave full time divine service to the more devout.  Instead, they want to enjoy "the rides", the fruits of THEIR eternal bliss.  It simply won't be that way!

This life is the school, not he career.  Heaven is the career, not a glorified nursing home.  Too many Christians have been misled by Revelation 14;13: "Yes, says the Spirit, they will rest from their labors."  Yes, Paradise is a place to rest and recuperate from one's earthly ordeals.  
But we only rest in preparation for future challenges.  In His Parable of the Pounds, Jesus teaches that our potential to exercise jurisdiction over heavenly communities will initially be a function of our faithful devotion to God's work in this life:

"The first servant came forward and said, `Lord, your pound has made 10 more pounds.'  He said to him, `Well done, good servant!  Because you have been trustworthy in a very small thing, take charge of 10 cities.'  Then the second servant came, saying, `Lord, your pound has made 5 more pounds.'  He said to him, `And you, rule over 5 cities (Luke 19:16-19)."

Paul's question in 1 Corinthians 6:2 makes essentially the same point: "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world (Greek: "kosmos"}?"  "Judge" here need not mean "condemn"; it can have the sense "exercise jurisdiction over."  This rhetorical question is as intriguing as it is obscure.  If "kosmos" has its more expansive meaning "the universe", then one wonders if God will ultimately enlist our services in His creation of future universes.  Can we already detect a hint of our future destiny in God's statement, "LET US make humans in OUR image (Genesis 1:26)?"  Who are this "us"?  Though God created us "a little lower than the heavenly beings (Psalm 8:4),"  we are destined to exercise jurisdiction over angels: "Do you not know we will judge angels (1 Corinthians 6:3)?"

[Palehorse]

Y'know, this makes me wonder if "paradise" is what Robert Monroe called "the park" if I recall.  Certainly sounds like a pretty good fit to me.

[Berserk]

[Yes, Palehorse, Robert Monroe's astral Park in Focus 27 and his experiences there fit nicely with the biblical view of Paradise.]

5. FROM A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR "SPIRITUAL"
   NON-CHRISTIANS TO GO DIRECTLY TO HEAVEN AFTER DEATH?

Consider this absurd argument.  "Let's not send food and medicine to starving young children in Ethiopia and the Sudan.  If we save their lives, almost all of them will reach 12, the age of accountability.  But then most of them will go to Hell because they haven't accepted Christ as their Savior.  Better to let them starve in the age of childlike innocence.  That way, they'll get to Heaven.  So letting them starve is actually the loving thing to do."  I hope you find this argument as offensive as I do.  So what is the answer to question 5?

Many would dismiss this question on the grounds of several "exclusivist" New Testament texts: e.g. "All who sin apart from the Law will also perish apart from the Law, and all who sin under the Law will be judged by the Law (Romans 2:12)."  But Paul celebrates God as "the Savior of all humanity, ESPECIALLY of those who believe (1 Timothy 4:10)."  The word "especially" stops us dead in our tracks when we deny that He is ultimately the Savior of unbelievers as well.  How can unbelievers be saved apart from formal profession of faith in Christ?  Paul answers this question in his discussion of the fate of non-Christian Jews and Gentiles in Romans 2:7, 10: "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. . .glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good--first to the Jew, then to the Gentile."

But these people have failed to gain forgiveness by trusting in Christ's atoning death. Paul replies that in pre-Christian times God "overlooked" sins committed in ignorance (Acts 17:30).  Surely God takes the same position with respect to modern people who are ignorant of the sinful nature of their actions.  Again Paul would agree: "Before the Law was given, sin was in the world, but SIN IS NOT TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHEN THERE IS NO LAW (Romans 5:13)."  Note the present tense "is not."

But even on this basis many pagans cannot qualify because conscience can be equivalent to the revealed written Law of Scripture: "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do BY NATURE the things required by the Law, they are a law for themselves. . .SINCE THEY SHOW THAT THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW ARE WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them (Romans 2:14-15)."  Only God knows how many pagans find their way to Heaven on this basis.  

But doesn't Jesus always insist during His public ministry that all godly non-Christians be properly taught His message and His ministry of redemption?  Actually, no!  In Mark 9:38-41, John informs Jesus that a non-Christian Jew is successfully performing exorcisms.  John adds: "we told him to stop because he was not one of us."  Notice how Jesus handles the situation.  He says, "Bring the man here and we'll explain the Gospel to him and offer him some basic instruction in discipleship.  Then we'll send him on his way to continue his ministry."  Oh, many evangelicals wish Jesus had responded that way!  But no, notice how He really does respond: "Do not stop him.  No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us."  In other words, if you don't actively oppose Jesus by your values and and actions, He considers you to be on His side.  On the basis of Jesus' actions here,  would you still insist that this exorcist is unsaved?

And how can Jesus say the the "poor" are "divinely favored" because theirs "is the kingdom of God (Luke 6:20)?"  How can He say elsewhere that "the poor in spirit" will inherit "the kingdom of heaven", that "the pure in heart, , ,will see God," and that "the peacemakers" will "be called sons of God (Matthew 5:3, 8-9)?"  Why doesn't Jesus insist in this context that all these classes of people must first be "born again" (John 3:3)?

I think Christians need to preach the Gospel and send out missionaries to  convert the masses.  But I also think that we'd better let God decide which non-Christians are bound for Hell and which are not.   Perhaps, righteous unbelievers spend time in one of the two heavens below Paradise (2 Corinthians 12:2-3).  Perhaps, those who have received very limited spiritual light "are beaten with few lashes" in Hell (Luke 12:47-48) before being reclaimed for Christ.  The Bible teaches that God's love never permanently abandons anyone after death.

[Berserk]

6. CAN THE BIBLICAL HELL BE RECONCILED WITH THE NEW AGE HELLS
   AND THE HELLS EXPERIENCED THROUGH OBES?

There is, of course, a diversity of OBE insights and New Age perspectives on the hellish planes.   But there is a widespread consensus on two points:
(a) that there are many hellish planes, each with its own distinctive characteristics; (b) that these hells are governed by the principle of like attracts like (e. g. a hell for thieves and a hell for sexual exploitation).  The Bible does not imply a multiplicity of hells as explicitly as it implies a multiplicity of heavens.  But the diversity of biblical imagery for Hell seems to imply a diversity of hellish planes.  Let me draw attention to just four such images:

(1) The Hebrew term "Gehenna" derives from a valley just outside ancient Jerusalem used for discarding and burning trash.  As a poetic symbol, Gehenna can be viewed as a repository for wasted lives.  In the early Christian era fire can serve as a symbol for a purificaton process.

(2)  Like modern astral adepts, Jesus implies a multiplicity of hellish planes, each based on the principle that like attracts like.  Actually, He expresses a more nuanced version of this principle: "For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be measure you get (Matthew 7:1-2)."  In other words, God has no absolute standard of judgment.  He judges us by the implicit criteria we use to judge and treat others.   So if I measure people as chumps for theft, I will find my way to a hellish plane where people view me the same way.    

(3) Jesus also implies the existence of hellish planes for people whose limited spiritual development and unloving acts are caused by severe deficiencies in the spiritual light available to them.  For these souls the poetic image of "few lashes" implies limited confinement followed by quick release:  

"That servant who knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted, will be beaten with many lashes.  But the one who did not know and did what deserved a beating will be beaten with few lashes.  From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and from the one to whom much has been entrusted, even more will be demanded (Luke 12:47-48)."

(4) Jesus also envisages hellish planes that function like a debtor's prison.  If God creates us to be unique beacons of pure unconditional love and we instead choose to live lives of self-indulgent egotism, then we "owe" God a soul that outgrows this counterproductive orientation.
Jesus' Parable of the Two Debtors concludes: "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the tormentors until he should pay all that was owed him (Matthew 18:34)."  Here Jesus plays off His image of sin as a 'debt" in the Lord's Prayer: "Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors (Matthew 6:12)."  In intertestamental Jewish thought, Hell is often imaged as a prison.  What is striking in this parable is that Jesus does not say, "and the Lord handed him over to the tormentors, from whose grasp he will never escape."  Rather, He implies the possibility that the debt will be paid off and the prisoner released.  Of course, in the parable, the debt (10,000 talents) is immense and would be very difficult to pay off.  But why does Jesus leave the door open to the possibility of release from Hell?

In Matthew 5:25-26 Jesus again envisages the possibility of paying "the last cent" of the debt and gaining release from Hell:

"Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, in order that your opponent may not deliver you to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown in prison.  Truly I say to you, you shall not come out of there until you have paid the last cent."

Four reasons can be offered for the view that this text implies the possibility of ultimate release from Hell.  

(a) The saying makes little sense when taken literally.  Jesus would then be advising His culpable disciples on how "to beat the rap" in a justified [?] criminal charge against them.  In that case, why advise them to wait to settle until their accuser is already in the street en route to court?  A symbolic interpretation makes more sense.  "The opponent" would then be God, "the way" would be the way of life, and the "prison" would be Hell.  Matthew 18:34 already points in that direction.

(b) Jesus restricts His use of the solemn formula "Truly I say to you" to spiritual subjects like divine judgment, prayer, and our relationship with God.  In other words, the formula is never used in a secular sense like "Truly I say to you, you'll never get out of the slammer."  

(c) The two earliest interpretations of the saying construe it symbolically as a reference to postmortem conditions.

(d) Luke places this saying in an eschatological context (Luke 12:57-59).  This context may support the identification of "prison" as Hell.

Thus. Jesus regards Hell as the lowest stage in the often lengthy process of evolutionary soul progression.  God is love and Christ is the Savior not just of believers, but also of unbelievers (1 Timothy 4:10).  "Our Savior. . .wants everyone to be saved and to reach full knowledge of truth (1 Timothy 2:3-4)."  "The Lord is. . .not willing for anyone to perish, but for everyone to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9)."  If the desire and purpose of an omnipotent God is to save everyone, then why assume that His desire and purpose end after our death?

This divine purpose is most tellingly demonstrated in Romans 11:32: "God has bound all men over to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all."  Here our sinful nature is part of God's plan, so that access to God must be on the basis of grace rather than the pretentious works-righteousness.  Paul anticipates our objection to this system: 'One of you will say to me, `Then why does God blame us?  For who can resist His will (Romans 9:19)?"  In 9:20 Paul dismisses the impudence of this question.  God is off the hook because, even after death, His love still pursues the  sinner in Hell.  Thus, Romans 11:36 casts 11:32 within the framework of the destiny of all creation: "For from Him and through Him and back to Him are all things."  The expression "back to Him are all things" presumably includes those languishing in Hell.  

This vision of universal salvation derives further support from the biblical case for soul retrievals from Hell, a subject that will be treated next in my response to question 7.  In that section I will also reassess the alleged "eternal damnation" texts to demonstrate their compatibility with the position being developed in this thread.

[Berserk]

7. CAN PEOPLE BE RETRIEVED FROM HELL AND BROUGHT UP TO HEAVEN?

As already noted, the purpose of this thread is to provide a basis of comparison between OBE insights into heavenly planes and the biblical perspective.  Robert Monroe claims to have frequently witnessed soul retrievals from "portions of Hell" apparently performed by Christ Himself.  Many Christians might discredit Monroe's claim because of his hostility towards organized religion. My reaction is precisely the opposite!  I often wonder if similar experiences reported by Christian mystics are merely the product of wishful thinking.  Monroe's apparent OBE encounters with Christ ring true and seem like a divine challenge that he chooses to ignore because of his anti-Christian bias.  But precisely for that reason, these OBE encounters are especially compelling.  I quote from chapter 8 of Monroe's first book, "Journeys Out of the Body":

"In the midst of normal activity, whatever it may be, there is a distant Signal, almost like heraldic trumpets.  Everyone takes the signal calmly, and with it, everyone stops speaking or whatever he may be doing.  It is the Signal that He. . .is coming through His Kingdom.  There is no awestruck prostration or falling down on one's knees. . .It is an occurrence to which all are accustomed and to comply takes precedence over everything.  There are no exceptions."

"At the Signal each living thing lies down--my impression is on their backs. . .with head turned to one side so that one does not see Him as He passes by.  The purpose seems to be to form a living road over which He can travel.  I have gleaned the idea that occasionally He will select someone from this living bridge, and that person is never heard from again. . ."

"In the several times I have experienced this, I lay down with the others.  At the time, the thought of doing otherwise was inconceivable.  As He passes, there is a roaring musical sound and a feeling of radiant, irresistible living force of ultimate power that peaks overhead and fades in the distance.  I remember wondering once what would happen to me if He discovered my presence as a temporary visitor.  I wasn't sure I wanted to find out.   After His passing, everyone gets up again and resumes their activities.  There's no comment or mention of the incident, no further thought of it. .  .Is this God?  Or God's Son?  Or His representative?"  

Monroe never tries to answer these questions.  But the signature trumpets (1 Thessalonians 4:16), the aura of blinding radiance of an omnipotent power (Acts 9:7-9), and the prostrate obeisance (Philippians 2:9) all mirror the biblical portrait of the Risen Christ's manifestations.

Monroe seems to have often witnessed the type of epiphany that is affirmed in the Apostles' Creed: "He [Christ] descended into Hell."  This affirmaton is based in part on Peter's claim that, after His resurrection, Christ sought to gain the release of sinful human spirits who had been dead for thousands of years:  

"He [Christ] was put to death in the body, but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah. . .
(1 Peter 3:18-19)."

"Prison" is a common Jewish image for Hell.   The implication is that the wicked dead receive a new chance to repent and be "retrieved" to Heaven.  Peter then extends the potential for soul retrievals to include all the dead in Hell.  In 1 Peter  4:5-6 it is no longer Christ who proclaims the Gospel to the dead; rather, He Himself is proclaimed to them, probably by deceased saints:

"They [pagans] will have to give account to Him [Christ] who is ready to judge the living and the dead.  For this reason HE WAS PREACHED EVEN TO THOSE WHO ARE NOW DEAD, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit."  

In other words, the tragic verdict on our bodily existence can be reversed in the realm of spirit by Gospel proclamation and soul retrievals.   The souls selected for retrieval have presumably evolved to the point where they are ready to move on to a higher spirit plane, a heaven.

Jews began praying for the dead in the second century BC (e.g. in the Catholic Bible see 2 Maccabees 12:41-45).  In the early church this practice evolved into proxy baptism for the unredeemed dead.  We encounter this mysteriously lost rite in 1 Corinthians 15:28-29.  Here Paul hints at his belief (expressed more clearly elsewhere) in the possibility that all humanity may eventually be saved.   He insists that God will ultimately "be everything to everyone" and implies that proxy baptism for the unredeemed dead in part of this process.   Paul's invocation of this practice in support of Christian doctrine means that we cannot dismiss it on the grounds that it is an obscure and soon to be ignored aspect of early Christian ritual.  

In the early second century, this practice is supplemented by a belief in postmortem baptism in the Acherusia lake near the Elysian field.  The early church borrowed these locales from Greek mythology and incorporated them into its vision of Heaven.  Consider these two quotes from orthodox Christian apocalyptic writings from the first half of the second century:

"[Christ:] Then I will grant God to them [the damned], if they call to me {in the torment) and I will give them a precious baptism for salvation in the Acherusia lake, which...is located in the Elysian field, the portion of the righteous with the holy ones (Apocalypse of Peter 14 from 135 AD)."

"To the pious, when they ask eternal God, HE WILL GRANT THEM TO SAVE PEOPLE OUT OF THE DEVOURING FIRE AND FROM EVERLASTING TORMENTS.  For having gathered them again from the unwearying flame and set them elsewhere, He will send them FOR HIS PEOPLE'S SAKE into another life, indeed an eternal one, with the immortals, in the Elysian plain, where are the long waves of the ever-flowing, deep-bosomed Acherusia lake (Christian Sibylline Oracles II: 331-338 from 150 AD)."

Consider the contrast between this vision of Heaven and Augustine's vision.  Augustine imagines the righteous sitting in Heaven's Colosseum and enjoying the role reversal of damned Romans in the arena below.  The texts just quoted hint at a much nobler Christian perspective that is at times implied, but is never made explicit, namely that none of us ultimately make it unless we all make it.  Your success is my success; your failure is my failure.  As a realm of pure unconditional love, Heaven cannot truly be Heaven for the righteous unless they dedicate themselves to facilitating the growth and liberation of denizens of Hell and the lower heavens.  Fire is an early Christian symbol of this purification process.

The seeds of this teaching appear in John's Apocalypse.  To see this, it helps to realize that John the seer does not comprehend every aspect of his otherworldly journeys and that, if he did, he might well grimace at the teachings being disclosed to him.  He and his beloved churches are being persecuted by both the Romans and local synagogues.  John is shown Heaven through the image of a hovering New Jerusalem and learns that Heaven's gate can never be shut (Revelation 21:25).  This image implies eternal traffic coming and going.  But going out on what missions?   Why would anyone leave Heaven?  We are told that "outside" are the wicked residing in Hell (22:15).  So the image allows for the possibility of soul retrievals from Hell.  

This interpretation finds reinforcement from two other texts in Revelation:
(1) John's vision of everyone in Hell (i.e. those "under the earth") joining all humanity in the worship of God and Christ (5:13); (2) the mystery of the unidentified "second resurrection."  That is, his visions assume a pattern of first death, followed by "first resurrection" and "second death", followed by second resurrection (20:6).  But John never identifies the second resurrection.   His anger at his persecutors probably makes him reluctant to do so.  It is usually assumed that the second resurrection precedes the Great White Throne judgment (20:11ff.).  But resurrection implies the concept of being raised up and there is no implication that the dead are "raised up" to Heaven for the Great White Throne judgment.   The second death is the lake of fire.  So to maintain the pattern first death, then first resurrection and second death, then second resurrection, the second resurrection must surely be retrieval from the lake of fire.  Only Heaven's eternally open gates make sense of this vehicle for the second resurrection!  

The prospect of universal salvation through soul retrievals also seems implicit in the hymn in Philippians 2:6-11:

"Therefore, God has highly exalted Him and given Him a name which is above every other name, that at the name of Jesus, every knee should bow, in heaven, and on earth, AND UNDER THE EARTH, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father (2:9-11)."

In this hymn everyone in the universe makes this saving confession.   "Every knee...under the earth" refers to everyone in Hell.   For Paul, the sincere confession, "Jesus Christ is Lord," cannot be uttered apart from the Holy Spirit's inspiration (1 Corinthians 12:3) and automatically makes one a Christian (Romans 10:9-10).  The Philippian hymn must have in mind the salvation of the hellbound confessors because it is based on the invitation to universal salvation in Isaiah 45:22-23: "Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth. . .Before me, every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear."  The hymn's glorious image resembles John's vision of everyone from Hell worshiping God and Christ in Revelation 5:13.

Some might object to this perspective by invoking texts like Hebrews 9:27: "It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment."  But one must ask, "What happens after the judgment?"  Or for similar texts, one must ask, "What happens after the wrath, the exclusion from God's kingdom, and the consignment to Hell?"  In  this respect, it is important to realize that neither in Hebrew nor in Greek do the words translated "eternal" mean that.  Rather, they mean "for an indefinitely long period of time."  Thus in Judaeo-Christian literature from late antiquity, a new status can follow "eternal" sleep.  

But what about sayings like John 14:6: "I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me?"  In the afterlife Christ can redeem those who never believed in Him.  Christ Himself performs soul retrievals (1 Peter 3:18-20) and other retrievals from Hell are performed through opportunities to respond to the Gospel (see e.g.
1 Peter 4:6).

[Berserk]

8. DID THE EARLY CHRISTIANS PRACTICE ASTRAL PROJECTION?

Some patrons of this site from Christian backgrounds have misgivings about whether the goal of OBE proficiency is spiritually legitimate.   Is it right to ascend to heavenly planes uninvited by God?   Each must answer that question for himself.  But such wafflers should at least take note of the role of astral projection in the Bible and the early church.  

Perhaps, the most intriguing New Testament example of an OBE is that experienced by Paul and described in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4.  One wonders what secrets he was forbidden to reveal--secrets disclosed to him in Paradise.   In this text, Paul coyly speaks of himself in the third person as "a man":

"I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.  I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven.  Whether it was in the body or out of the body, I do not know--God knows.  And I know that this man--whether in the body or apart from the body, I do not know--but God knows--was caught up to Paradise.  He heard inexpressible things, things that humanity is not permitted to tell."

Paul shares this experience to counteract propaganda spread by traveling "super-apostles" who are apparently adept as miracle workers and astral travelers.   These men have circulated reference letters to various churches documenting their miracle-working credentials.   Compared to them, Paul seems less than imposing to the Corinthians in his speech and personal charisma.   Paul objects not to the spiritual gifts of his opponents, but to their arrogance in treating these gifts as a badge of their true spirituality.   So Paul resists the pressure to match their press clippings, and instead, gives the Corinthians a list of his extraordinary sufferings in the service of the Gospel.  

He sums up his perspective on true spirituality thus: "To keep me me from becoming conceited because of all my surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in the flesh [= some sort of physical affliction]. . .Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.   But he said to me, `My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.'  Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me (12:7-9)."  If we read between the lines, Paul is tacitly approving our right to perform OBEs, so long as we do so to promote God's work.

Biblical examples of astral projection make me wonder whether the allusion to "the silver cord" that binds body and soul (Ecclesiastes 12:6) reflects descriptions of astral travel.  In the Bible what we call astral travel is normally portrayed as being "in the Spirit" or being "carried away in the Spirit".   Astral travel is clearly a prophetic prerogative and is experienced by the prophets Ezekiel and John: e.g.

"The Spirit lifted me up and took me away. .. (Ezekiel 3:14)."
"On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet. . .(Revelation 1:10)."
"After this I looked, and there was before me a door standing open in Heaven.  And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, `Come up here,' and I will show you what must take place after this.' At once I was in the Spirit. . .(Revelation 4:1-2)."  
"And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain. . . (Revelation 21:10)."

As late as 200 AD, astral travel remains a function of being  "in the Spirit" through the exercise of the prophetic charism.  In Tertullian's church, astral projection is actually encouraged during the Sunday service:

"Because we acknowledge spiritual gifts, we too have deserved to acquire THE PROPHETIC GIFT. . .We now have a sister among us whose lot it is to be favored with various revelatory gifts.  Right in the church in the midst of Sunday's sacred rites, she experiences these gifts by ecstatic vision, while IN THE SPIRIT.  She converses with angels, and sometimes even with the Lord.  She both sees and hears mysterious communications.   She [clairvoyantly] understands some people's hearts and distributes remedies to those in need.  Whether during Scripture reading, the chanting of Psalms, the preaching of sermons, or the offering up of prayers, she receives the means and opportunity to see visions in all these services. . .After the people are dismissed at the end of the services, she routinely reports to us whatever she has seen in visions.  All her communications are scrupulously examined to probe their truth. `Among other things,' she says, `I have been shown a soul in bodily shape, and a spirit has been regularly appearing to me.  This spirit is no void and empty illusion, You would even expect it to offer its hand to be grasped.  It is soft and transparent, with an ethereal color.  It resembles the form of a human being in every respect (Tertullian, De Anima 9:4).'"

This sounds like an ideal church service for certain denizens of this website.  Apparently, the state of consciousness that facilitates this woman's astral projection also allows her clairvoyant insight into parishioners' guarded secrets and insights into the solutions to their problems.  She even seems to have a regular spirit guide.  

In the early church, such prophetic gifts were suppressed around the same time that a consensus was developed to limit the New Testament canon to the 26 books it now contains.  This consensus was achieved around 200 AD, but was not formalized until later.   After 200 AD, there only a very few minor quibbles about the suitability of this or that book for inclusion in the New Testament canon.