a question about fundementalist islam

[enes]

hi,
so like I stated in another post I was born in a fundementalist family
the problem is this is starting to drive me crazy
people around me are  constantly trying to indoctrinate me
now my real question
in adrian's book he said that one day everyone will know the truth
I was indoctrinated and really believed in almost everything I was told
one day something happened
I don't know what exactly
then I started to question everything
is this how fundementalists will see the truth
or will it work out differently

[Stillwater]

I think spirituality is different for every individual, centering around their life experiences. It may happen that way for a lot of people coming from a fundamentalist background, but I doubt there is a set "plan" for everyone- no two people have had the same life, afterall!

[Rudolph]

then I started to question everything
is this how fundementalists will see the truth
or will it work out differently

Fundamentalist is short for Fundamentally Wrong. They will always be wrong.

One big Life Test for those trapped in such a society is how to pretend you have drunk the Kool Aid without sacrificing your own personal Inner exploration of Truth and Reality.

[enes]

hi,
so to survive in the society I live in should I pretend to except the fundementalist laws etc

[Rudolph]

I would take care to avoid outright lying. Simply present yourself as having questions and the occasional doubt. This is usually acceptable to most families. Aggressive challenges only stir the pot to no productive end when dealing with fundamentalists. Especially when living under the roof of a parent.

Then quietly study the works of Sufi mystics like Jalal ud din Rumi, Shamuz i Tabriz, etc.

[enes]

hi,
so is there an inturpurtation of the quran that isn't literal that I can study
all interpurtations I see are literal
and I hope all fundementalists see the truth one day

[Rudolph]

Yes, there are looser interpretations out there.

There are several 'fringe' groups but they are badly persecuted in both Sunni and Shia dominated countries. I suspect just asking about them could get you in serious trouble.

I believe the Druze have a LOT to offer but you would have to be born into it in order to be considered for instruction at the Inner Circle levels. (And they are persecuted even in their own traditional homeland -- the expat Druze community in Los Angeles is now bigger than what remains in Lebanon!)

I think you can do a lot with the Sufi exercises (particularly the silent Dhikr practice).

[Stillwater]

Yeah, I can attest. One of the principles at my old firm was Lebonese Druze, and he took his whole family to Virginia.

[enes]

hi,
so could you please post a link to a good  interpurtation of the quran
and how would dhikr help me

[Rudolph]

hi,
so could you please post a link to a good  interpurtation of the quran
and how would dhikr help me

How might Dhikr help?
There is a fair chance that if you practiced Dhikr every day for five years you could be in a position to start writing your own interpretation.

[manwesulimo2004]

I would take care to avoid outright lying. Simply present yourself as having questions and the occasional doubt. This is usually acceptable to most families. Aggressive challenges only stir the pot to no productive end when dealing with fundamentalists. Especially when living under the roof of a parent.

Then quietly study the works of Sufi mystics like Jalal ud din Rumi, Shamuz i Tabriz, etc.

This is pretty much what I did. I was brought up in a fundamental Christian family but always asked a lot of questions. I gradually transitioned out of it though to the point I wouldn't call myself a Christian any more. There wasn't really a specific moment in which I revoked my faith and changed my ways. It was a bit awkward because sometimes I would feel I was living a lie. I wasn't sure if it was fair to go to church, letting others believe I was something I was not. At least not really. By now I have found a little more clarity in my beliefs (just a little) and I have made my position clear to some of my family members. I feel better now but I'm always careful not to be "in your face" with these matters. It's easier to be flexible from my perspective than it is from theirs so I try to be considerate.

[enes]

hi,
what happens when you do dhikr?

[Rudolph]

what happens when you do dhikr?

1.Dhikr increases the capacity of brain in the direction of the meaning of words repeated in mind.

2.Dhikr transfers the wave energy generated by brain to the person's soul (ruh), which is the hologram-like spiritual body of waves, thus, it provides the person with a strong soul in the afterlife.

3.Dhikr develops brain faculties such as comprehension, understanding and assimilation of the meanings of the repeated words.

4.Dhikr brings certainty (yaqeen) about Allah.

5.Dhikr results in realization with the divine meanings.


"- Dhikr involves muraqaba or meditation, through which one reaches the state of ihsan or excellence, wherein a person worships Allah as if he is actually seeing Him."

It is hard for me to imagine someone growing up in a Muslim Fundamentalist household and NOT being very familiar with Dhikr.

Start with whichever form is already established in your family tradition. If it follows the Naqshbandiyah Order of Faqirs so much the better (Dhikr khafi). "Alhamdulillah" is one of the shorter recitations and the shorter the better, imho.
Just the simple "Allah" in this video is good. Very short and simple;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsTnoPzkAxs&feature=related

It takes months to come to a solid grasp of each of the various forms. The imagination of energy flow from one side of the body to the next can be very instructive. I suggest that you give yourself a period of years in daily practice to get an easy feel for the effects and benefits that grow from this exercise.

[enes]

hi,
almost everyone around me follows sunni islam
I think I remember now

dhikr is encouraged even in sunni islam
but isn't given as much importance as sufis
so, what do you have to say about some of the barbaric verses of the quran
like punishments  how can these possibly have different interpurtations

[enes]

hi,
I googled about different interpurtations of the quran
but haven't found a complete one yet

[rezaf]

There are different levels of faith: On the surface there are people who THINK they have faith and deeper there are people who KNOW  they have faith. The first group see religion as a manual either for getting reward from God or for avoiding the hell. For them religion and their belief is just an illusion of faith. The second group on the other hand seek knowledge beyond their limits. They are determined to KNOW. In order to KNOW faith first they need to question their faith and in order to seek the answer they need to be humble and learn what is beyond their limits. This challenge will continue until they finally KNOW the truth and that's when they realize the oneness and the unity of everything in the universe.

[Contenteo]

There are different levels of faith: On the surface there are people who THINK they have faith and deeper there are people who KNOW  they have faith. The first group see religion as a manual either for getting reward from God or for avoiding the hell. For them religion and their belief is just an illusion of faith. The second group on the other hand seek knowledge beyond their limits. They are determined to KNOW. In order to KNOW faith first they need to question their faith and in order to seek the answer they need to be humble and learn what is beyond their limits. This challenge will continue until they finally KNOW the truth and that's when they realize the oneness and the unity of everything in the universe.

I like that, a lot. It's worth repeating.

The caveat is the balance in which one can never truly understands the other's point of view.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[BeHappy]

Hey you learn something new everyday huh, well fundemetalist islam is new o-o but if you have you're own ideas and what you want to do does not matter to others but you're self the more you let them push you the harder you'll go down.

[enes]

hi,
well here we have the extreme fundementalist type or the first type of people
in sunni islam your supposed to take the quran literally
also to give you an idea of how extremist fundementalists are around
we've got the turkish president for example he's doing his best to destroy the original turkey and replace it with a country governed by sheri laws (islamic laws)
like for example here not going to mosks on fridays is not an option

[BeHappy]

Wow that's to harsh I don't barley go to the mosk simply because its to far and no time :O guess my parents are OK with it.

[Karas]

Today I have relized what every religion is about and there message is so simple that no one sees it.
In the Quran God says that he sent tons of Prophets around the world to teach that there Is only 1 God and that people must summit to him and him alone. The Quran also says:

"Those who believe (in the Qur-ān),
And those who follow the Jewish (scriptures),
And the Christians and the Sabians,—
Any who believe in God
And the Last Day,
And work righteousness,
Shall have their reward
With their Lord: on them
Shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
Quran 2:62

This applys to all religions who summit to God cause in reailty there is only 1

"Abandon all varieties of dharma and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear" Bhagavad-gita 18.66

"As soon as one desires to worship some god, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity." Bhagavad-gita 7:21

Even in the Gita Krishna says that he loves those who turn to the unseen and he will support them more then those who worship idols of god.

No matter what religion your in, you are summiting yourself to the will of God which makes you a Muslim and your religion Islam.

Don't know about you guys but I think this is a Miracle in plane sight and people are attacking each other trying to convert other beliefs to summit to God even though they already are.  

   

[Killa Rican]

No matter what religion your in, you are summiting yourself to the will of God which makes you a Muslim and your religion Islam.

Don't know about you guys but I think this is a Miracle in plane sight and people are attacking each other trying to convert other beliefs to summit to God even though they already are. 

"Èṣù is a deity of Chaos and Trickery in lukimi/santeria , and plays frequently by leading mortals to temptation and possible tribulation in the hopes that the experience will lead ultimately to their maturation. In this way he is certainly a difficult teacher, but in the end is usually found to be a good one.[2] As an example of this, let us look at one of his patakis or stories of the faith.[3] Èṣù was walking down a road one day, wearing a hat that was red on one side and black on the other. Sometime after he entered a village which the road went through, the villagers who had seen him began arguing about whether the stranger's hat was black or red. The villagers on one side of the road had only been capable of seeing the black side, and the villagers on the other side had only been capable of seeing the red one. They soon came to blows over the disagreement which caused him to turn back and rebuke them, revealing to them how one's perspective can be as correct as another person's even when they appear to be diametrically opposed to each other. He then left them with a stern warning about how closed-mindedness can cause one to be made a fool. In other versions of this tale, the two halves of the village were not stopped short of extreme violence; they actually annihilated each other, and Èṣù laughed at the result, saying "Bringing strife is my greatest joy". "

I'm sure the moral of this story and it's example is quite familiar to all of us.