Adam and Eve

[Herewini1985]

Do you believe the Adam and Eve story may be an anecdotal account of the origins of the subtle body as recounted from either the Astral plane or perhaps another plane? An interesting verse in Genesis 3:14, "upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life", where dust is what man was allegedly formed from (stardust, if you believe certain astronomers and scientific proponents), and (completely left field this one) perhaps the allusion to the Kundalini rising as the snake is said to rest within the mid section of the subtle body?

[Fourthdimension]

do you mean that been thrown out of the garden of eden might just be a metaphor for been thrown from another plane to the plane we now reside on.
so what your saying is the kundalini is represented by a snake and in the garden there was also a snake?
do you think that the snakes tempting adam/eve(i forgot which one) to eat the apple might be a metaphor just like the garden
mabye when we were in the astral we raised enoough energy or the kundalini and done something we should nt have like went somewhere forbidden or manifested or communicated with something we should nt have?

i dont belive we were made of star dust but i think it could be possible a meteor or something crashed and the bacteria from it could have been possibly the cells or bacteria we evolved from.

if the garden is only a metaphor then mabye in other religous texts in islam or hindu or buddism there might be some reference to another metaphor which could be interpretted this way.

sorry if i misinterpretted your post (what can i say lol am stupid)
if i did misinterpret your post could you explain it in simpler terms lol

thanks

[Herewini1985]

do you mean that been thrown out of the garden of eden might just be a metaphor for been thrown from another plane to the plane we now reside on.

Perhaps, yes.

so what your saying is the kundalini is represented by a snake and in the garden there was also a snake?

Perhaps, yes.

do you think that the snakes tempting adam/eve(i forgot which one) to eat the apple might be a metaphor just like the garden

It's a possibility. I propose that it may be possible that the serpent tempting Eve to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge may be a metaphor illustrating the archetypal blueprint of man exercising free will within a specific plane, and perhaps entertaining the possibility of what may happen if the fruit is eaten.

mabye when we were in the astral we raised enoough energy or the kundalini and done something we should nt have like went somewhere forbidden or manifested or communicated with something we should nt have?

It's a possibility. We may have been given a choice at some stage to exercise free will under his reign and yet obey His will. Failing that, we may have been extradited to a plain of existence whereby we can fully utilize this 'Tree of Knowledge' in an environment that would suit it's application. However, the choice illustrated in the story of Adam and Eve may not be relative to the choices we understand here and now. It may not be indicative of anything we could possibly understand whatsoever from this particular plane of existence. That being said, the possibility of doing something wrong, or even being cast out under negative pretenses may be incongruent in the way we understand it to be. In fact, the story of Adam and Eve may only be an illustrative history of an archetypal blue print of the consciousness of man, illustrating free will and the innate desire to evolve beyond what we can conceive coupled with the union we share with our subtle body and the serpent fire.

i dont belive we were made of star dust but i think it could be possible a meteor or something crashed and the bacteria from it could have been possibly the cells or bacteria we evolved from.

Billions of years ago there were no elements, only protons and electrons. These protons and electrons grouped together to form hydrogen. Through weak gravitational interactions they started to form massive clouds, which eventually became denser and denser as their gravity became stronger and stronger until they crunched down to form a star, which is essentially a massive ball of hydrogen whose gravitational force causes the hydrogen within to fuse together releasing massive amounts of nuclear energy and converting the hydrogen into partly heat and light radiation and partly other elements.  Hydrogen + hydrogen = helium, hydrogen + helium = something else, etc. until eventually you get everything from gold to plutonium. This is how the matter which makes up our bodies (which is about 70% hydrogen since the universe is 90% unconverted hydrogen) formed. This is the theory of stardust being the origin of mankind. It is still however possible that life on Earth may have originated through panspermia.

http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=52

Also, in Christianity and Jewish tradition (and I believe Islamic as well), man is created from dust. Interesting.

if the garden is only a metaphor then mabye in other religous texts in islam or hindu or buddism there might be some reference to another metaphor which could be interpretted this way.

Good thinking. I'll have another look. If you find anything of interest, please drop another reply? Thank you.

I don't think you misinterpreted a thing. Thanks for your reply.

[Mattoid]

A lot of this story was mistranslated and greatly misunderstood, largely due to a lot of this being left out. Research ancient symbolism, and you'll find out that the 'Serpent' was actually symbolic of science or "Those who knew", "Keepers of Knowledge". Also, the word "Created" was mistranslated, I can't remember for the life of me what the original word was, as it's been so long since i've studied this, but the closest word in our dictionary was actually "Built", as i recall.  The serpent also representing the DNA helix. It really does suggest genetic manipulation in my opinion. Also anything that suggested "Other" gods was removed from the bible. The beings we perceived as gods in the days of old were most likely ET in origin. The Egyptian hieroglyphic for "The Gods" suggests this too, as it's basically an image of a flying saucer. Interesting stuff.

[CFTraveler]

i dont belive we were made of star dust

4D, I hate to tell you that it is scientific fact, not as a metaphor, but chemically speaking, yes.  We may not be made of 'star-dust', but we are made of elements created in the stars.

Here is the explanation:

"Even today, the majority of matter in the cosmos exists in the form of hydrogen and helium. However, without the variety of atom types that is shown in the periodic table of the elements, the existence of planets and human life would not be possible. Surprisingly, most of the elements were formed inside stars. In their interiors, hydrogen fuses to form helium and, in higher-mass stars, nuclear fusions of this type also lead to the creation of carbon, oxygen and heavier elements, including iron. Elements that are heavier than iron are formed when additional neutrons and protons become attached. For this to happen, physical conditions such as those that occur only during supernova explosions and inside red giant stars are necessary..."
from 
http://spacefellowship.com/news/art12675/astronomy-question-of-the-week-are-we-made-of-stardust-.html

The chemicals that our bodies are made of (along with everything else) are made from elements that could only have been made in a star.  So everything that is made of elements is made of 'stardust'.  Which makes us 'made from  stars'.   Sort of.

[Herewini1985]

Thanks Mattoid. Very interesting. What are your thoughts CFTraveller?

[CFTraveler]

About the original post?  I'm afraid that I thought I had chimed in, for some reason I thought I did.

Anyway, IMO the Adam and Eve story is a myth, and like a good myth,  can be applied to many transitional events - it can indeed represent a soul's 'evolution', as you described, or in another way-like in the kabbala and the primordial 'man' (Adam Kadmon being a soul being transitioned into manifestation, for example) it can also represent how humans in general came to develop intelligence (as a function of diet- the fruit of knowledge of good and evil representing the move from herbivorous hominids into omnivorous humans, for example) even the transition from a matriarchy based on nature worship to a patriarchy based on warlike behaviour- I believe all these apply, and possibly more than I haven't thought of yet- making the fable universal, a teaching tool.

[Herewini1985]

Thanks CFTraveller. I see what you mean. That could mean the representation could be multi-faceted in its interpretation. But I guess there's no real way to verify. Still, it's nice to hear others thoughts.

[caterpillarwoman]

I have considered that the myth is symbolic of humans assuming a separated state from God. At the beginning of the story, they are created and live in perfect communication with each other and with God and with their environment. Then, they choose to "know the difference between good and evil" and they become separated from God as a result, and cast out of Paradise. The moment they chose to be the "deciders" or "judges", that was the moment they were no longer in direct contact with their Source.

It's just one more interpretation of a very rich and meaningful myth.

People who only read it literally are missing out on so many possibilities...

[Herewini1985]

Interesting view caterpillarwoman, thanks for your contribution. So in a sense - considering the hypothesis of choice - every subtle nuance of our day to day lives, the good and the bad, would be a necessity in order to foster a level of responsibility within the individual. To both CFTraveller and caterpillarwoman; have you ever had any contact with the mental plane? And if so, do you believe that this might be where this myth may have originated from - objectively? And if you have had contact with the mental plane; would you describe the mechanics of any experiences there to be succinct with this hypothesis? And if not, can you think of any planes that may share a similar interpretative structure as the Adam and Eve story?

[CFTraveler]

@ Hereiwini:
I have had a few mental projections (not sure if this is what you mean) but I'm afraid my mental body is very 'immature', for whatever it's worth.
I'm curious as to how you would characterize the choice of symbol with a mental plane development.  Sounds very interesting.
I guess what I'm trying to ask (because even asking the question may be beyond my intellectual capability) is- Provided (let's say that it's a given) that it is indeed " an anecdotal account of the origins of the subtle body as recounted from either the Astral plane or perhaps the mental plane"  Let's just for kicks assume that it is the mental plane- would you give an exegesis?

[caterpillarwoman]

I've wondered about where/how archetypes and myths originate. I'm with Jung on this one, and that there's a collective unconsciousness from which people draw. I see it as a kind of "template" for symbolic and material reality.

[Herewini1985]

Thank you for your response CFTraveller and caterpillarwoman. I appreciate your input immensely. Mattoid, If you would like to oblige us with your input - and any others for that matter - I would be most pleased. I would like to put forward multiple proposals, If I may - bouncing these ideas off of you guys in order to stimulate a 'brainstorm'. The first being - considering the hypothesis of course - that the account of Adam and Eve may be indicative of an archetypal blueprint illuminating the origins of mankind; the 'information' collected within the mental plane could be indicative of;

a) collective mental 'pools', indicative of data accrued on a large scale between multiple individuals - possibly eliminating any personal interpretation and alluding to the possibility of universal trends ie. snake, kundalini, DNA, knowledge, good and evil, free will, etc.

b) Considering this allegorical tale seems to be a precursor to free will and choice, we can assume this piece may in fact be indicative of a time which may predate our physical universe, as the physical universe's fundamentally grounded in cause and effect (without getting into the weird and wonderful world of quantum physics). This is mere speculation (as is the previous post of course), as the information I'm basing this on is incomplete and as stated does not consider theoretical quantum physics.

c) That the mental plane is not only home to the accumulation of cognitive energy on a collective level, but on each and every independent level of consciousness as well; making the environment almost impossible to traverse without a higher connection of some sort navigating you towards your chosen point of perusal. Again, this is mere speculation. However it may account for the alleged confusing state of the environment, and would not clash with proposal a).

d) Completely left field here, but while we're brainstorming why not. If a macro-cosmic allegorical tale where to have played out on a plane somewhere and it did have a connecting effect on an entire genesis of conscious beings - If somehow you were able to interact with that environment - would the interactions within this plane affect its reflective counterpart on a macro-cosmic scale? This particular concept is indicative of a constant connecting and reflective state which may be identifiable and interactive within the mental plane, given the correct navigation of course.

The problem is that (and forgive my ignorance here) in regards to the mental plane - time and space may not apply in the same way I understand them. So If I may, could I ask you for your personal understandings of how the mental plane may work from your perspective? I understand the mental plane as a plane which fosters the accumulation of mental energy on multiple levels of transmission - how far the scope is I'm not sure. Whether or not it's able to be navigated - I'm not sure either. I apologize for any incompetence in my post, I have little knowledge of the mental plane.

[CFTraveler]

Fascinating, H.
I don't know enough either, but find it very interesting.

d) Completely left field here, but while we're brainstorming why not. If a macro-cosmic allegorical tale where to have played out on a plane somewhere and it did have a connecting effect on an entire genesis of conscious beings - If somehow you were able to interact with that environment - would the interactions within this plane affect its reflective counterpart on a macro-cosmic scale? This particular concept is indicative of a constant connecting and reflective state which may be identifiable and interactive within the mental plane, given the correct navigation of course.

I would propose that we already have done it, but don't have the conscious awareness of having done it, hence archetypal symbols.

The problem is that (and forgive my ignorance here) in regards to the mental plane - time and space may not apply in the same way I understand them. So If I may, could I ask you for your personal understandings of how the mental plane may work from your perspective? I understand the mental plane as a plane which fosters the accumulation of mental energy on multiple levels of transmission - how far the scope is I'm not sure. Whether or not it's able to be navigated - I'm not sure either. I apologize for any incompetence in my post, I have little knowledge of the mental plane.

In theory the mental plane is completely nonlocal (or supra-local) so it could be also possible to say that the 'tale' could be representing how the mental energy (or whatever, energy is probably incorrect in this application, but I can't think of a word) became material- of course either way of looking at it is causal (that is, you have a story being represented by a mental image, or you have a mental image causing the story to happen) and causality may be outside of the scope of the mental plane (although it is a concept) so this story may be said to be playing out every second in the physical-  (that is, ideas become things, and then we think about them and get ideas), yet beyond time and space.
Confusing, isn't it?
But cool, I  think.

[Herewini1985]

Yeah, definitely. An additional possibility If I may.

The mental plane may act as a 'mirror', reflecting the cognitive energies accrued throughout the physical universe inclusive of its subtle layers. The scope of such would be immense. Even just from an individual perspective - the cognitive pools would be so large and varied - as time and space change so do our mental perceptions, not only of ourselves but of concepts, places, events etc. Each variation giving birth to an entirely knew 'field'. And that's not even considering other cognitive processes found, perhaps in animals, collective groups, cultures, races, sub-cultures, genders, planes, etc. A veritable plethora of 'fields within fields', making navigation almost impossible. And if the archetypal imagery found within the mental plane was indicative of a universal congruence - it could transcend time and space as we perceive it from the physical plane. Which could mean anything. It could even mean that a) the archetypal imagery used is indicative of the most pervasive imagery acknowledged within that physical universes 'lifespan', b) the imagery would simply be a universal archetype which would ring true into the annals of eternity which we can't confirm because our perspective on time is limited, or c) that the archetypal imagery used is dependent on the viewers perspective - much like the Akashic Records appears to some as a library, others as a scroll etc. I think this last possibility might have some weight to it.

Could it be possible (going off topic) that interactions made from the mental plane could affect the cognitive processes of individuals, animals, collective groups etc? The only way to even test such a hypothesis would first be to navigate it. The only way I can even begin to conceive of navigating it would be to produce a cognitive 'reflection' of a simple and unique quality (an individual imagining a large, empty train station with a unique name known to both the individual and the projector for example), and attempt to project within it - and from there interact with the 'reflection' in order to assess as to whether or not the interactions are effected in real time. This process would take time, and require willing individuals. Still, it's an interesting - albeit amateur - hypothesis. The method might need work though. Specifically the identification of the 'cognitive pool'. Any ideas you might have on ascertaining its location? Perhaps through the higher planes? Maybe even the Akashic Records?

(Back on topic) I think If I were to lend credence to the possibility of the Adam and Eve tale being taken from the mental plane, it could indicate a reflective tale of the genesis of consciousness - which could possibly indicate that the mental plane reflects cognition on a scale the likes of which I can't even begin to fathom (even though it looks as if I'm trying - rather clumsily), which may predate the conception of the physical universe as we know it, and be reflective of an entirely different plane. I think that perhaps the only way to even begin to fathom the enormity of it all is to acknowledge the mental plane from a position of non-locality. But still, I really don't know. It's nice to hear your opinion, I appreciate your input CFTraveller.

[CFTraveler]

Thanks.

Could it be possible (going off topic) that interactions made from the mental plane could affect the cognitive processes of individuals, animals, collective groups etc?

I think so, but it would be very hard to 'prove' (or to acknowledge) because it would require awareness of it, and that's easier said than done.