"Demons" and "Angels": some definitions

[narfellus]

thanks kakkarot, you brought up interesting points. I just want to emphasize that huge chunks of religions were misinterpreted for reasons you just described, and the original meanings in some cases are so warped as to have little use, thus leading to centuries of confusion and mishap. Some people get so worked up over doctrine...

[kakkarot]

oh yeah, something i forgot to mention: my above post was for the greek language, which the new testament was written in. the old testament was written in aramaic/hebrew/whatever-it's-called and so some/many of the definitions of similar-meaning words/terms could be slightly different enough that they portray vastly different ideas. (ie, the aramaic word for "angel" could be literally defined as a specific race of created beings who serve "God" (by His various names and titles)).

i've not done much study into the aramaic language, so if anyone out there /has/ and could enlighten us, it would be wonderful for more information on the subject (of angels and demons, or just any commonly mistranslated words) to be made available [].

~kakkarot

[Moonburn33]

the concept of angels goes back to the babylonian concept of their divine go-betweens.  these emissaries were normally very viscious and were very unpredictable.  the idea of wings came from the presumerian worship of birds- which goes back to the beginning.

demons.  i've always thought of demons as angels who think for themselves.  the book of Enoch (however culturally accurate/inaccurate) has a name for them which translates into "they who are awake."

[Mystic Cloud]

Thanks, this was very interesting []

The more I read about the Bible the more there seems
to be these misinterpretions. Too bad some go all fanatical
about it all []

I remember reading that Hell was also misinterprated from
the 3 underworlds (Hades etc.).

http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/hades.html

Anyone who looks more into the greek mythology will understand that
Hades is NOT hell. It is merely the underworld and comparable to
the asatru's underworld etc.

[Moonburn33]

some people like to interpret things a certain way so that it gets them more money.  it's an entrepeneurial venture, that's all.

[kakkarot]

i'm posting this in christianity cause christians seem to be the most misunderstanding of what "demon" and "angel" mean when used in the bible (and because there are a few christian references), though the entire north american society is very steeped in misunderstandings of them.

no, i'm not posting this to condemn people for using the words incorrectly because the commonly accepted meaning of the terms is much more prevalent than their actual definitions anyway, and i myself use them incorrectly at times merely to communicate with someone using their own definitions (and because i sometimes get confused and use the wrong definition at times). i'm just posting it to further "knowledge".
(as a note in case someone cares, i copied most of this post from another post i made on another forum)

demon in greek.


according to "Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament" by Joseph Henry Thayer, D.D. demon is defined as "a god, a goddess; an inferior diety, whether good or bad."

according to "The Analytical Greek Lexicon" (published by Zondervan Publishing House in Grand Rapids, Michigan. 7th Printing 1972. Catalog # 6257) demon is defined as "a god, a superior power; in N.T. a malignant demon, evil angel."

as you can see, authors of the new testament bible books/letters/etc use the term "demon" to reference evil entities, but in actual greek use it refers merely to ANY beings which are more powerful than us humans regardless of whether the being is good or bad, though it seems that the greek use of the word also relates that the being should/must be worshipped as a diety to fit this definition. ie, if angels are a race of beings, they would fit under the descriptive use of the term demon because they are (according to the bible's examples) far more powerful than humans are, and many angels are/were (wrongly, since according to christianity there is only one true God) worshipped as dieties.

and on a side note, angels. there are a few variations on the root word used in the greek which becomes denoted to "angel" in many instances in english translations.

<the a has an accent over it>
is defined as "one sent, a messenger, angel,

( <the a and the e have an accent over each>, to tell, to announce.)"

and " <the first a has an accent over it>, a message, doctrine, or precept, delivered in the name of anyone, 1 Jno 3:4"
cross reference 2 Corinthians 12:7 where is uses the former spelling of "angel/messenger" when saying "a messenger of satan" (and remember that satan means merely "an opposer"). the term used to denote "angel" in the english is a term used in the greek to denote a messenger, one who delivers a message, and the term is used of both humans and of entities which God sends and which we call angels.

so yeah. lots of words in the bible which are used as nouns should have been translated into the descriptives which they denote instead. for instance, baptism in the greek is baptizo which means strictly "to dip or immerse", no sprinkling or pouring (which are each DIFFERENT greek words). so as you can see, there are lots of terms and ideas used today by christians and anti-christians alike, to debate and argue over the validity of christianity and other such things, which are completely different from what the terms and ideas originally meant. study should always come before discussion []

~kakkarot

ps, the images were taken from http://www.greek-language.com/alphabet/

[Isiah]

I don't know about the actual Hebrew words, but in the original Hebrew old testament, the pagan Gods worshiped by the idolaters were 'lords', 'idols', and 'hairy men'. The word 'demon' meant a divine intelligence inferior to Gods but superior to humans, see the 'lords', 'idols' and 'hairy men' were inferior to God, but superior to humans, so it was translated as such. And yes, the Christianized Greeks would have certainly used the word demon to refer to an evil being.
Angel is derived from Aggelos which means a messenger, since angels are messengers from God, 'melek' was translated to aggelos/angel.
The words 'demon' and 'angel' in the old and new testaments aren't referring to what the terms denote in Greek mythology, they're just appropriate translations of Hebrew words.
I don't see why new agers or liberal Christians try and use the 'Satan simply means adversary' ploy to try and degrade the existence of Satan. So what? all names have a meaning. The angel Lucifer was given the name Satan after his fall, seeing as he became the adversary to God and humanity. 'Lucifer' just means light-bearer, since Samuel means the same thing in Hebrew, all it is is a roman translation. The Christians did not use the name 'Lucifer' to try and convert pagans to Christianity or any other garbage new agers and liberal Christians try and propagate.

[Gandalf]

well the confusion comes from the fact that there was already a minor roman god called lucifer 'light bearer' who's job was to operate the Morning Star every morning funnily enough. he was only ever of minor importance and certainly wasnt 'evil' in any way. He appears in Ovid and other Roman writings.

however, as you say, later Christian Roman writers then used the name 'lucifer' to described the late-judaic 'satan' character who was first formulated in the last few centuries bc. As 'Satan' had somewhat similar attributes, even althougfh they had no real connection, later latin writers used the name Lucifer to refer to the Satan figure: this stuck and the original *roman Lucifer* was forgotten. I have to point out once more for clarification that the two deities are not in any way related, apart from the name. I actually feel a bit sorry for the old roman deity of the same name as he has been rebranded as evil!

Doug

[daidaluz]

Hi everyone , interesting topic

Gandalf

Under a Philosophical (hermetic if you want) view there Is a relation between the so called "bearer of light" or god of light, Lucifer, and Satan.

 Under a more symbolic view, Lucifer represents Light, Illumination, the consciousness that's aware of its own evolution an "sophistication", being the bearer for those who are in the path of evolution.
 Satan represents the EGO and the ability to use this Illumination/sophistication given by Lucifer to own "satisfaction" in the Earth, amidst people.  

 It seems very interesting that Satan, under this concept, has many faces that can incarnate in living people as being demons, so philosophical concepts can be seen as literal concepts in daily life.

[Isiah]

however, as you say, later Christian Roman writers then used the name 'lucifer' to described the late-judaic 'satan' character who was first formulated in the last few centuries bc. As 'Satan' had somewhat similar attributes, even althougfh they had no real connection, later latin writers used the name Lucifer to refer to the Satan figure: this stuck and the original *roman Lucifer* was forgotten. I have to point out once more for clarification that the two deities are not in any way related, apart from the name. I actually feel a bit sorry for the old roman deity of the same name as he has been rebranded as evil!

Exactly, Satan and the roman deity lucifer have nothing to do with each other and bear no similarities, which just goes to show that translating 'sammael' as 'lucifer' was nothing more then a literal translation. Sammael=Light-bearer. Lucifer=light-bearer. What are you going to do when you translate the hebrew to latin?