Do Christians Really worship a Volcano?

[Leyla]

Ever notice that in the Old Testement, "The LORD" is totally unpredictable, vengeful and punishing? Ever wonder where the Hebrews came up with such a personality?

I intend to prove that YAHWEH "The LORD" was, in fact, a VOLCANO.

Check this out:
(I am going through the books in order.)

Exodus 19:
16 So it came about on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunder and lightning flashes and a thick cloud upon the mountain and a very loud trumpet sound, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled.
17 And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain.
18 Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly.

Exodus 20:
18 And all the people saw the thunderings and the lightenings and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking, and when the people saw it they removed and stood afar off.
19 And they said unto Moses, speak thou with us and we will hear, but let not God speak with us, least we die.

Exodus 24:
15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount
16 And the glory of the LORD abode on mount Sinai and the cloud covered it six days, and the seventh day he called up to Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Numbers 11:
1 Now the people became like those who complain of adversity in the hearing of the LORD; and when the LORD heard it, His anger was kindled, and the fire of the LORD burned among them and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp.
2 And the people cried unto Moses; and when Moses prayed unto the LORD the fire was quenched.
3 And he called the name of the place Taberah; because the fire of the LORD had burnt among them.

Deuteronomy 4:
11 "You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the very heart of the heavens: darkness, cloud and thick gloom.
12 "Then the LORD spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of words, but you saw no form--only a voice.
24 For the LORD our God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice that he might instruct thee; and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.

Deuteronomy 5:
22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire of the cloud with a great voice, and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone and delivered them unto me
23 And it came to pass when he heard the voice out of the midst of darkness (for the mountain did burn with fire) that ye came near unto me even all the heads of your tribes and your elders
24 And ye said behold the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire, we have seen this day that God doth talk with man and he livith.
25 Now therefore why should we die? For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the LORD our God anymore, then we shall die.

2 Samuel 22:8
"Then the earth shook and quaked, The foundations of heaven were trembling And were shaken, because He was angry."

Psalms 18:
7 Then the earth shook and quaked; And the foundations of the mountains were trembling And were shaken, because He was angry.
8 Smoke went up out of His nostrils, And fire from His mouth devoured; Coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down With thick darkness under His feet.
10 He rode upon a cherub and flew; And He sped upon the wings of the wind.
11 He made darkness His hiding place, His canopy around Him, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.
12 From the brightness before Him passed His thick clouds, Hailstones and coals of fire.
13 The LORD also thundered in the heavens, And the Most High uttered His voice, Hailstones and coals of fire.
14 He sent out His arrows, and scattered them, And lightning flashes in abundance, and routed them.
15 Then the channels of water appeared, And the foundations of the world were laid bare At Your rebuke, O LORD, At the blast of the breath of Your nostrils.

Psalms 104:32
He looks at the earth, and it trembles; He touches the mountains, and they smoke.

Isaiah
24:1
Behold, the LORD lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
24:20
The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.

Isaiah 34:
8 For the LORD has a day of vengeance, A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
9 Its streams will be turned into pitch, And its loose earth into brimstone, And its land will become burning pitch.
10 It will not be quenched night or day; Its smoke will go up forever.

Micah 1:4
The mountains will melt under Him And the valleys will be split, Like wax before the fire, Like water poured down a steep place.

Nahum 1:5
Mountains quake because of Him And the hills dissolve; Indeed the earth is upheaved by His presence, The world and all the inhabitants in it.

Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

[NickJW]

Interesting observation.

Alot of what is recorded in the Bible is actual history for example the many wars depicted in the old testament, however, the ancient people's recording of these events were twisted with their own religious beliefs. Example : "God told the general to cross the river, and there God commanded him to attack the Cannanites". Now Christians interpret this as God actually telling the general to do these things, when it was really the general's own mind and conscience telling him what to do. Very similar to Christians today who say they talk with God or God wants them to do something. Its just there own conscience telling them what to do, the same as what everyone's conscience does.

What many Christians don't realize is the Bible is full of metaphors and thats just the way the ancient people wrote.

So yes, yes I do believe God very well may have been a volcano. In fact it is likely by the sounds of some of those excerpts.

[Shinobi]

Hey Leyla,

This is an interesting conjecture and reminds me of something I read years ago in a book by Joseph Campbell.  I forget which one, but it's probably either Myths to Live By or Occidental Mythology.  He was discussing Sigmund Freud's conjecture that Yahweh was, in fact, the name of an ancient volcano god, that Moses was actually killed by the Jews as they wandered the desert, and that somehow was transmuted into the mythos that the Peoples of the Book rely on today.  

Bear in mind, though, that while there are certainly fiery and wrathful images of God throughout the Bible, there are also benevolent and protective images - not sure that a lot of those would jive with a volcano basis.  Also, if there was a volcano god named Yahweh, I'm not sure that's a slam dunk, as there is some question around what the holy name of God was thought to be by the ancient Jews.  Jehovah is another possible pronunciation, based on the vowels that they would allow themselves to write.

Still, it's fun to think about.

Take care,

Shinobi

[Leyla]

Funny thought, that they might have killed Moses. And who could blame them?

Jehovah is unlikely to be the name of the Hebrew god; considering there is no J in the Hebrew language. There wasn't even a J in the English language until over 1,500 years after the deah of the man now known as "Jesus." Most experts conclude that God's name was either "Yahweh" or "Yahuweh".

The behavior of the old testemant god is irrational, capricious, tempermental, and often vicious. I reject these descriptions on the basis that I must believe god is sane.

However, the same biblical descriptions would be exactly fitting for an unpredictable volcano, inspiring both fear and awe into the primitive desert tribe of hebrews.

Revelation 4:3 gives us a description of God Himself. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius (carnelian) stone in appearance.What do these two stones have in common? They are both volcanic.

[Abyss]

"At the beginning of the catastrophe at Sinai, according to Hebrew traditions, there was a long deathly silence in the desert which Moses interpreted to mean "I Am that I Am" (Exodus 3:14)"    

DUM


I intend to show that YAHWAH translates as DUM (Continuous Silent Mantra of Creation). I intend show the fallen Israelites that I'm alive and kicking with the inherited Sapphire Rod of our Forefathers, along with Arc of the convent, and Tabernacle, manifested and passed down via inheritance for ascension, and the reminder of our Nations sins (Your Golden Calf)

"He selected three letters from among the simple ones and sealed them and formed
them into a Great Name, I H V, and with this He sealed the universe in six directions."

The Ten Ineffable Sephiroth (English without the 'E' realized last night)

5Above       IHV
6Below       IVH
7(East)Forward            HIV
8(West)Backward        HVI
9(South) Right       VIH
10(North) Left       VHI

!Abyss Sealed!

"He was discussing Sigmund Freud's conjecture that Yahweh was, in fact, the name of an ancient volcano god, that Moses was actually killed by the Jews as they wandered the desert, and that somehow was transmuted into the mythos that the Peoples of the Book rely on today."

"Funny thought, that they might have killed Moses. And who could blame them?"  

"However, the same biblical descriptions would be exactly fitting for an unpredictable volcano, inspiring both fear and awe into the primitive desert tribe of hebrews."

"In Jewish ledged Satan the tester, with Jannes and Jambres. Two students of Balaam the magician, conjured up before an increasingly disturbed and doubting Israel the image of a dead Moses floating on a bier midway between heaven and Earth. This symbolism displays the scribe's knowledge of the worlds. The precise location and height of the bier defines, to those that know even a little of Kabbalistic theory, that Jannes and Jambres were working in the world of formation that lies between the worlds of Action and Creation. When the Israelites saw the mirage they fell down in despair: If there leader had gone what would become of them in the desert between Egypt and Canaan? Satan, taking full advantage of the situation, worked on the growing disorder among the tribes. Months of work where undermined in days and the half completed initiation of Mount Sinai was to become more then threatened. Seeing no sign of Moses or God, Satan openly tempted strained and now shocked the Israelites. In the individual such Satanic attacks comes when exhaustion weakens resolution and only a sharp but subtle push is needed to throw the aspirant off the Spiritual path. The Magicians represent the inner tricksters of mischief and fantasy that plague all spiritual exercises. It was at this point that the mixed multitude, exerting there influence as the only cohesive group begun to pressure Aaron and the Elders. The two Sorcerers, who considered Moses only a rival magician, utilized this force to direct the people's attention to worshiping the God of the world of Formation"                      


Exodus 20:
18 And all the people saw the thunderings and the lightenings and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking, and when the people saw it they removed and stood afar off.

Moses communed with the Divine and his unconscious, he experienced the other 'I' A lot of what is said here is metaphorical as to what happens when the Divine presence draws closer to man, myth, fact and reality fused together as one; it allows freewill and maintains the element of mystery. The Israelites where supposed to Stay still, silent and remain DUM beneath Sinai as they where commanded. They scattered, they as a people where Dormant undisciplined Volcano's.    

"19 And they said unto Moses, speak thou with us and we will hear, but let not God speak with us, least we die."  

Moses read there thoughts. You see the Israelites where very stupid, they upset the Divine (who had foreseen there actions) which in any case is not good for Moses, having the Divines wrath fall upon ones back (real or false), for the sake of the DUM people (who never have a clue what's happening) is a very, very stressful experience for anyone to go through.  

This is shown immediately afterward, the previous statement. After offending the Divine (Not trusting the Divine would protect them, which is 'Scattering for cover under the mountains') Many Israelites where swallowed by the earth and perished in there own thoughts immediately.  

"You are a stubborn people and I may destroy you at any moment if I am with you"


YAHVEH
YAHVEH

GOD
MERCIFAL AND GRACIOUS
LONG SUFFERING
GREAT IN KINDNESS
And TRUTH
KEEPING KINDNESS FOR THOUSANDS
FORGIVING INIQUITY and TRANSGRESSION
And SIN

BUT WHO WILL BY NO MEANS CLEAR THE GUILT, VISITING THE INIQUITY OF
THE FARTHER UPON THE CHILDREN
UNTO THE THIRD AND FOURTH

[NickJW]

Thats nice. But it still dosen't change the fact that Christianity is total and utter bovine excrement.

[/i]"and God said to Homo Erectus, let there be Homo Sapien, and he saw that IT was good"

[Leyla]

I think it was some kind of parody. But of what I'm not sure.  :think:

Apparently there must have been a lengthy post somewhere I missed about the mantra "OHM" being the same as "IAM," which he thinks is really "DUM."

Anyway, I was laughing my butt off at parts of it. Especially the part about the people scattering for cover under dormant undisciplined Volcano's. Thanx Jabyss.

Signed,
Jleyla.

[CFTraveler]

When I went to college (many eons ago) we studied some prehistoric tablets (carved) which showed the fertility god YHWH, and he was depicted as the torso of a man and its legs were snakes.  This was in the middle east (I wish I could remember the exact place).  The fascinating thing is that this represented a fertility god who probably turned into the god of the bible, at some point losing the snake parts (garden of eden,anyone?) and acquiring a more fiery disposition.  So a volcano is not out of the question.  Are there any dormant ones in the middle east?

[Jaco]

Interesting
Jews, Christians and Islamits are worshiping a volcano.
Well, but not so strange, since Christianity and Islam were mostly spread by the FIRE and by the sword    
I don't know, IHVH as a volcano... I think Pele is more romantic as a volcano god(dess)...

[Gandalf]

Abyss_

You are one whacked-out individual!

Doug

[NickJW]

I agree Gandalf. I don't really even know or understand what his last post was about or what the point of it was. I guess it's just his way of ignoring truth, logic and facts.

[Leyla]

I think Abyss's post is a sarcastic parody. It seems Pro-Bible, until you actually read what it says:

God, merciful and gracious long suffering great in kindness and truth keeping kindness for thousands forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin.....but who will by no means clear the guilt, visiting the iniquity of the father upon the children until the third and forth generation.  

He is pointing out this is supposedly a kind forgiving god, but in the Bible he punishes innocent children for the sins of their fathers up until the third and fourth generations. (Exodus 34:7 Numbers 14:18)

And you can't miss his constant referances to the Israelites being DUM.

[James S]

Hi Leyla,

I know this is just a bit of a side issue, and not really what the topic is about but I thought you might find the following interesting anyway.

He is pointing out this is supposedly a kind forgiving god, but in the Bible he punishes innocent children for the sins of their fathers up until the third and fourth generations. (Exodus 34:7 Numbers 14:18)

There's something about that verse that makes an awful lot more sense when you take it out of literal terms and put it into terms of cause and effect.

In Numerology there is a number that represents a person's first challenge in life. As an example, my first challenge is a 1, which is a challenge of experiencing difficulties with domination, control or strict authority, which can bring about low self worth or dependency. I was raised by very dominating "control freak" parents, not really allowed to express my identity as a child, and so grew up with a low self esteem "control freak" nature myself, which I then re-enacted upon my own children.
That is until I became more aware of myself and my challenges.

So the bible does speak accurately of the situation where the "sins" of the parent - that is, their emotional and behavioral issues, are passed on to their children, who learn the negative behaviour traits and so pass it on to their children.

Once again if you look at the bible literally it makes no where near as much sense.


James.

[Leyla]

James- Yes, many preacers today explain that verse in exacly such a manner. Usually they say it means alcoholism, drug addiction, or incest. I doubt it's what the writer intended, but it is the accepted modern meaning.

I found a few more physical descriptions of God.

Ezekiel 1:26-28, "Above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire, and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man. I saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal, as if full of fire, and that from there down he looked like fire; and brilliant light surrounded him. Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him."

Revelation 1:14-16, "His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, [volcanic ash?] and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance."



So... God looks like glowing melted metal. Lava, anyone?

And what is this bit I always hear about God throwing you into a "Lake of Fire?"

[gdo]

There are at  least 2 things to consider.  Ancient cultures are limited to the languages and the common experiences that those represent, and hindsight.

Ancient writings are TRIBAL in nature and can reflect the mindset of those that came before us.  

Anyone reading ancient texts  has the advantage of 20/20 hindsight.

No.  YHVH was not a volcano.  LOL.

[Leyla]

Gdo

It's clear from the text that this is a real life physical mountain they are talking about. Not a symbolic or figurative one. Bible scholars have postulated for years the location of this original "mount of god;"so we know it is not a mystical metaphor.

[Mustardseed]

It never ceases to amaze me how folks will willfully poke fun and ridicule things they do not understand............it seems that the most convenient way of dealing with issues that one does not understand or agree with is through ridicule or poking fun.............. Some on this board are EXPERTS and have elevated it to an art........come on guys you know who you are........my question is however, does it help any. Does it make you feel better about yourself when you barrage someone with logical reasons or the like instead of approaching them in respect and interest

[Leyla]

Mustardseed-

Just because the hebrews worshiped a volcano doesn't mean there isn't a god.

[Abyss]

Always Missquoted, Where does it say Until?

Ps- Silence is Golden, and this is a most wonderful jorney

[NickJW]

If Christians aren't going to be accepting of our practices, then we might as well debunk their religion. Sorry Mustardseed, but Christianity is too damn arragant to be left alone.

Mustardseed, do you have something against logical thinking and reasoning?

Socratic Method

[Leyla]

Jabyss,

My KJV says "unto" but I believe some of the more modern bibles say "until."

Also, am beginning to suspect gdo thinks he's god. It's an anagram.

[Mustardseed]

If Christians aren't going to be accepting of our practices, then we might as well debunk their religion. Sorry Mustardseed, but Christianity is too damn arragant to be left alone.

Mustardseed, do you have something against logical thinking and reasoning?

Socratic Method

Hi Nick I have nothing against logical thinking and reasoning.....nothing whatsoever. I do However have something against slurs, name calling and bigotry. You stated in an earlier post:

"it still doesn't change the fact that Christianity is total and utter bovine excrement"

This is in my opinion rude and against AP board net etiquette, it is not being moderated and I honestly wonder why. It is not logical nor using reasoning. It is simple abuse aggression and in my opinion in every way ineffective. If you hope to "expose" Christianity, or "debunking" the religion I find it illogical to believe that the above statement has any such effect. If you are trying to portray or explain your own sentiments and Antichrist beliefs, it works very well.

In my opinion you are out of line. I realize that you probably care very little and as a reply will possibly even step up your aggression, this will only add negativity to your life and is your prerogative.

Regards Mustardseed

[Jimi]

If Christians aren't going to be accepting of our practices, then we might as well debunk their religion. Sorry Mustardseed, but Christianity is too damn arrogant to be left alone.

People are arrogant...not the religion or practice they follow.
It is people, humans, and the flesh which is arrogant.
One should be aware as to never confuse the fallibility of humans with the infallible of the spiritual. For example, not every Muslim is a terrorist.
If we bash a belief system for the failings of the humans who make up the system, then we are all damned.

[NickJW]

There is no need for you to be judgemental either Mustardseed. You assume my life is negative, I'm an antichrist worshiper, and that I'm out of line. I also think it is against AP etiquette to lie about channeling God. I would also care about your post if it actually came from an admin.
You obviously have a biased opinion as well, for if you look back on Abyss's (Debunker's) posts, you will see that the comments he makes are much more out of line.

And I'm not insulting christianity by saying its bovine excrement, merely stating a fact. Just like your channeling is bovine excrement.

[Leyla]

I think a religion can be arrogant if it claims to be the "one true faith" and that everyone who doesn't follow it will go directly to hell. Especially if it sets out to brainwash the world into believing it at the point of a sword, or under pain of of buring at the stake.

I swear Abyss is not Debunker, his posts are sarcastic parody of Chrisitanity.

Also- Gdo, come out with it- do you believe you're god?

Mustardseed is just feeling wounded, handle him gently, he's not a bad person. Remember any one of us could be accused of having a case of "the crazies" just for experiencing OBE's.