Since coming out of Christianity last year, I've thought alot about things that have happened spiritually that I cannot sometimes explain adequately. I've always been a critically thinking person, so I find myself mulling over past events that have happened in church "revivals" and such, and I was wondering if anyone here had some good explanations for these things. As a disclaimer, I'll just say that even as a Christian I knew that 95% of the time these things happened they were faked by people. But almost everything that's abused and overdone in Christianity has its root in something real that happened. I'll list them below.
1. When I was young we had a "healing revival" and multiple times I saw someone get hands laid on them and fly backwards over 2-3 rows of chairs. I also saw someone stuck to the wall once with their feet out 8 inches off the ground.
2. Being "slain in the spirit". I've had it genuinely happen one time where I was prayed for and felt a surge of power come through me, and I wasn't able to stand and needed someone to catch me. 95% of the time I've seen this (just about every Sunday most of my life) I know it is fake, a-la Benny Hinn, and people are just pretending so they can feel holy or something. But it really does happen sometimes.
3. Feeling "the anointing" or "the glory". I've known a few men who carried such a strong "anointing" or "presence of God" as we call it, that when they walk into the room you can feel the atmosphere shift even if you aren't looking. One time I was in a meeting where "the glory" fell so hard that everybody was down under its power. Nobody could stand or get up for about 10 minutes as it felt so "thick". I remember feeling powerless and overwhelmed by it, although it was a phenomenal feeling of course.
4. Speaking in tongues. Against 95% of the time I've hard it, its just mumbo jumbo people are making up. But on one occasion when I was about 13 my dad spoke in tongues and about 10 Spanish speaking people in our congregation heard him in what they called "perfect Spanish" prophesying to them. I have no way of explaining how or why this happened.
5. One time the "anointing" was so heavy during worship that what looked like a literal bolt of lightening flashed across the front of the auditorium. I still remember it vividly, and its still crazy to think about.
6. Demonic possession. I sort of understand this better from reading about the astral, but I still need more of an explanation of it. When casting demons out, usually what we would do is speak in tongues, or say the name "Jesus" to the spirit, both of which would cause the person to cover their ears and scream saying "Stop doing that!! AAHH". Then we would command it to leave in Jesus' name and the person would throw up, and then roll over with this glossy-eyed look and say "what happened? where am I?"
You can see how these kinds of experiences would strongly reinforce your religion in your mind. These kinds of things happening routinely to Pastors and Christians around the world only solidify the fact that everything they believe is true. My dad for example, would never even give me the time of day to listen to what I believe now. He gives me this concerned look and cuts me off at the very beginning and says "You need to be careful son, you're worrying me" As if to say "there's no chance I'm wrong about what I believe, so clearly you've lost your way, and that worries me". And that is only when I talk to him about Christian theology I disagree with...If I told him what I really believe about spirituality, he would start an all night prayer-vigil for me and have people across the globe reaching out to "Bring me back into the Kingdom of God". So needless to say, I'm never going to have that conversation with him.
My explanation for some of this is simply the fact that thought is primary energy, and when you get a room full of people that believe strongly in something, some crazy cool $#!7 can happen. The other explanation I have is that these "men of God" who carry such a strong "anointing" with them really, really love God with all their heart, and they are very good people. Love is the highest vibration, and some sects of Christianity are all about Loving God and Loving people, which is a great way to live your life. Science has discovered that we all emit an energy field based on our emotional state. Carrying this high vibration of Love can probably lead to an aura of energy that others can feel around you. I can remember times in my life where my heart would be so full of love for everyone and every thing that I would feel like I was about to burst open. I would pray for healing for people randomly on the streets and it was wonderful. So I'm sure this can cause people to feel an energy around you that they would call "the presence of God". Which I suppose, is an accurate term for it.
So ex-Christians, non-Christians, and current Christians please feel free to weigh in with your opinions. Obviously there isn't going to be just 1 right answer to anything, so it'd be nice to hear what other people think, and other experiences you've had as well.
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 25, 2014, 13:38:50You can see how these kinds of experiences would strongly reinforce your religion in your mind. These kinds of things happening routinely to Pastors and Christians around the world only solidify the fact that everything they believe is true.
Yes, but same 'things' happen for other creeds too and they are as 'convinced' as the Christian people that it proves their religion to be the only true one. What they never think about is that while it proves some paranormal validity in 'religious' personal or (even stronger) group activity - such as praying or talking in tongues - it does not and will never prove claimed exclusivity, because similar things happen/work in a different frame or fashion for other creeds and non-believers alike. That is where their cognitive dissonance enters the stage. They don't want to hear about that fact.
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 25, 2014, 13:38:50
My explanation for some of this is simply the fact that thought is primary energy, and when you get a room full of people that believe strongly in something, some crazy cool $#!7 can happen. The other explanation I have is that these "men of God" who carry such a strong "anointing" with them really, really love God with all their heart, and they are very good people. Love is the highest vibration, and some sects of Christianity are all about Loving God and Loving people, which is a great way to live your life. Science has discovered that we all emit an energy field based on our emotional state. Carrying this high vibration of Love can probably lead to an aura of energy that others can feel around you. I can remember times in my life where my heart would be so full of love for everyone and every thing that I would feel like I was about to burst open. I would pray for healing for people randomly on the streets and it was wonderful. So I'm sure this can cause people to feel an energy around you that they would call "the presence of God". Which I suppose, is an accurate term for it.
I think you nailed it pretty well in this paragraph. Group intent or personal intent is a strong factor. What these people then do is to put their conceptual matrix (belief system) onto what happens. E.g. if they see or feel energy it is the holy spirit, for people in Hawaii it is mana, for Hindus prana, for the Chinese Chi, and so on ...
Speaking in tongues is just another form of meditation whether they understand that it is or not. Many dancing rituals are forms of meditation as well. :-)
Most "possession" is nothing more than mental illness. There is no "one" god.
Quote from: AAAAAAAA on April 25, 2014, 19:33:27
Most "possession" is nothing more than mental illness. There is no "one" god.
What do you mean exactly? Do you mean "god" in the sense of the religious concept of a monarchical boss or political king of the Universe?
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 25, 2014, 20:48:58
What do you mean exactly? Do you mean "god" in the sense of the religious concept of a monarchical boss or political king of the Universe?
All of the above. Neither exist. Not yet at least.
I've experienced all the same things at the Pentecostal Christian church I used to go to. Also the sick healed and I've had my own string of faith healing miracles. Like you said, love is the highest vibration, and anyone who has tapped into this and believes/ has intent that these phenomenon can and will occur will experience a wide variety of these spiritual gifts. Their only mistake is believing that it's exclusive to them. Jesus taught love and when he says 'Believe on me and the things I do, you will do also' I don't believe he was talking about a surface belief in his personality. He was talking about a deep belief in the vibration 'love.' --So deep that it penetrates to your inner being and becomes what you are. God is no respecter of persons. Everyone can have this love. It is not exclusive.
Quote from: AAAAAAAA on April 25, 2014, 21:38:32
All of the above. Neither exist. Not yet at least.
Sorry, I phrased that poorly. What I meant was monarchical boss/Political king. Not either or lol. I do not believe that God exists either, besides for in the imagination of millions of people. The concept of "God" is ultimately unspeakable and unnameable. Transcendent far beyond our labels and ideals. I like that much better than a god who fits in my boxes :)
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 25, 2014, 23:09:58
Sorry, I phrased that poorly. What I meant was monarchical boss/Political king. Not either or lol. I do not believe that God exists either, besides for in the imagination of millions of people. The concept of "God" is ultimately unspeakable and unnameable. Transcendent far beyond our labels and ideals. I like that much better than a god who fits in my boxes :)
If ANYTHING, "god" is a race, just like "human" is. There's no way in heck one person is capable of doing everything that has been done, not even a "god".
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 25, 2014, 23:09:58
I do not believe that God exists either, besides for in the imagination of millions of people. The concept of "God" is ultimately unspeakable and unnameable. Transcendent far beyond our labels and ideals. I like that much better than a god who fits in my boxes :)
I agree with you that God is transcendent far beyond our ideals. I know a lot of people who believe in God (including me) whose concept of God is transcendent, limitless, not in 'a box' etc. But they use the label 'God' just to have a name to refer to in conversation.
So when someone says 'I believe in God', a lot of people automatically assume that that person has limited, boxed in thinking when that is not necessarily true. Likewise, when someone says 'I don't believe in God' many will assume that person believes in nothing more than they can see with their eyes, which may not be necessarily true. --They could be someone like you.
I bring this up because I think it is very important to look past labels and try to see the concept beneath. I mean, it's kind of bizarre that you and I both have a transcendent, limitless concept of 'God' but I say I believe in God and you say you don't! That kind of thing can (and does) cause a lot of division in the world if people aren't careful to understand each other at a level deeper than labels. Religion has caused enough division in the world!
Quote from: soarin12 on April 26, 2014, 01:11:04
I agree with you that God is transcendent far beyond our ideals. I know a lot of people who believe in God (including me) whose concept of God is transcendent, limitless, not in 'a box' etc. But they use the label 'God' just to have a name to refer to in conversation.
So when someone says 'I believe in God', a lot of people automatically assume that that person has limited, boxed in thinking when that is not necessarily true. Likewise, when someone says 'I don't believe in God' many will assume that person believes in nothing more than they can see with their eyes, which may not be necessarily true. --They could be someone like you.
I bring this up because I think it is very important to look past labels and try to see the concept beneath. I mean, it's kind of bizarre that you and I both have a transcendent, limitless concept of 'God' but I say I believe in God and you say you don't! That kind of thing can (and does) cause a lot of division in the world if people aren't careful to understand each other at a level deeper than labels. Religion has caused enough division in the world!
That's a good point. Alot of people say they don't believe in God at all when they simply mean they don't believe in the concept of God as the great Monarchical boss that religion presents him as. I actually do say that I believe in God when people ask me, I just tell my Christian friends that I don't believe in "that" God. Or that I am an atheist to their version of God. So I'm like you in that sense.
This video captures the essence of what I've come to believe pretty well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMRrCYPxD0I
"You are something the Universe(God) is doing, in the same way that a wave is something the whole ocean is doing"
Quote from: soarin12 on April 26, 2014, 01:11:04
I agree with you that God is transcendent far beyond our ideals. I know a lot of people who believe in God (including me) whose concept of God is transcendent, limitless, not in 'a box' etc. But they use the label 'God' just to have a name to refer to in conversation.
So when someone says 'I believe in God', a lot of people automatically assume that that person has limited, boxed in thinking when that is not necessarily true. Likewise, when someone says 'I don't believe in God' many will assume that person believes in nothing more than they can see with their eyes, which may not be necessarily true. --They could be someone like you.
I bring this up because I think it is very important to look past labels and try to see the concept beneath. I mean, it's kind of bizarre that you and I both have a transcendent, limitless concept of 'God' but I say I believe in God and you say you don't! That kind of thing can (and does) cause a lot of division in the world if people aren't careful to understand each other at a level deeper than labels. Religion has caused enough division in the world!
Thank you for writing what I was thinking, only you said it more precisely than I could have. Now get out of my head!!! :-D
Quote from: Astralzombie on April 26, 2014, 19:16:30
Thank you for writing what I was thinking, only you said it more precisely than I could have. Now get out of my head!!! :-D
Ha-Ha! Your welcome, AZ. :)
Loved the video, Aaron. Thanks for sharing! Beautiful filming. I have felt this 'oneness' too.
Quote from: soarin12 on April 26, 2014, 19:53:25
Loved the video, Aaron. Thanks for sharing! Beautiful filming. I have felt this 'oneness' too.
You're welcome! I'm a huge fan of Alan Watts. If you want to watch a truly amazing video with his equally amazing commentary, check this one out. It's so beautiful I almost got misty eyed when I first watched it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Sv_Bv1H7BQ
While we're on the topic of paranormal activity in Christianity, has anyone ever gotten "drunk in the spirit"? It happened to me once, but I've seen it happen to many people (and many others fake it of course). Sometimes people actually just look drunk, when the "presence of God" becomes so strong on them. Other times they get the uncontrollable laughter. A few times the whole church got hit with uncontrollable laughter and it was actually pretty amazing. Talk about a highly charged energy environment.
Do other religions experience this kind of "drunkenness in the spirit"? Or is it pretty much unique to Christianity?
Beautiful video! Wow--when the whale turned on his belly.
Yeah, I was 'drunk in the spirit' and slain in the spirit once. I never had the laughter myself but saw it hit the church about 5 times. It is really amazing to witness and experience.
Good question about other religions and I don't know. Would be interesting to research.
Quote from: soarin12 on April 27, 2014, 05:11:28
Beautiful video! Wow--when the whale turned on his belly.
Yeah, I was 'drunk in the spirit' and slain in the spirit once. I never had the laughter myself but saw it hit the church about 5 times. It is really amazing to witness and experience.
Good question about other religions and I don't know. Would be interesting to research.
Well good then! Glad I'm not the only one here who can vouch that these experiences are very real and genuine in many Christian circles. Maybe I'll ask one of the mods to come offer up their opinion, as this really is something that intrigues me. I still have so much to learn about thought-energy and how the astral works, which would help explain alot of these phenomena to me I believe.
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 27, 2014, 15:56:05
Well good then! Glad I'm not the only one here who can vouch that these experiences are very real and genuine in many Christian circles. Maybe I'll ask one of the mods to come offer up their opinion, as this really is something that intrigues me. I still have so much to learn about thought-energy and how the astral works, which would help explain alot of these phenomena to me I believe.
Please don't place any extra weight on our words or opinions. We are just here trying to understand our experiences like everyone else.
In the way that the power of love can overtake a group of people so can the opposite occur. It's called mob mentality. Horrible things can and do happen when this phenomenon takes over. People will do horrible things up to and including murder but would never do anything of the sort or even consider it if they were alone. It's as if they feel that the horrible deed is somehow less wrong because there are more people to share in the blame.
Neither case is exclusive to any one group or religion. :-)
Quote from: soarin12 on April 27, 2014, 05:11:28
Good question about other religions and I don't know. Would be interesting to research.
Think about the native Indians dancing with drum rhythms, surrounding the shaman who under trance state performs healings. It is the same concept of collective consciousness and certain beliefs. Have you heard of Buddhist monks who can go without food and water for weeks, who can levitate few inches off the ground, etc...Also, occultists who perform spells and magic that produce results. And even without any religious beliefs, a large group of people influenced by a signle individual can start behaving out of the usual norms and start a world war (Hitler). So, it's not only the Christianity that provokes certain mass behaviors based on the preached belief. The source of any "miracles" or "supernatural" occurrences is the consciousness itself and when it involves a large group of individuals focused on one thought, it manifests it in various physical circumstances or forms.
Quote from: LightBeam on April 27, 2014, 18:32:20
Think about the native Indians dancing with drum rhythms, surrounding the shaman who under trance state performs healings. It is the same concept of collective consciousness and certain beliefs. Have you heard of Buddhist monks who can go without food and water for weeks, who can levitate few inches off the ground, etc...Also, occultists who perform spells and magic that produce results. And even without any religious beliefs, a large group of people influenced by a signle individual can start behaving out of the usual norms and start a world war (Hitler). So, it's not only the Christianity that provokes certain mass behaviors based on the preached belief. The source of any "miracles" or "supernatural" occurrences is the consciousness itself and when it involves a large group of individuals focused on one thought, it manifests it in various physical circumstances or forms.
Yes. I guess it's pretty simple when you break it down to its basic elements. If thought is a primary energy, the more people you have focused on the same thought, the more energy is created to make it happen. The Astral responds immediately to thought energy, so if you thought about "levitating" in the astral, you would immediately. The Physical is much more dense and responds much slower, but it still responds. It just takes more thought energy. So I suppose that would explain all of the above phenomena I and others have listed. Maybe not fully and completely, but satisfactorily enough for me anyway. If I believe God is Love and His presence melts all darkness away (and I'm in a room full of people worshiping with the same belief) we will begin to feel an overwhelming Loving presence that seems to melt all of our pain and fear away. Pretty cool when you think about it that way. But pretty destructive when used in a negative way, ie Hitler and the Nazi's.
Quote from: Aaron330 on April 25, 2014, 13:38:50
I can remember times in my life where my heart would be so full of love for everyone and every thing that I would feel like I was about to burst open.
In my opinion, this is bad sometimes. Having too much love causes an imbalance. Not to mention, if you love people too much, you will get hurt by a lot of people.
Quote from: AAAAAAAA on May 21, 2014, 00:55:03
In my opinion, this is bad sometimes. Having too much love causes an imbalance. Not to mention, if you love people too much, you will get hurt by a lot of people.
When you grow into being able to love unconditionally, more love will often equal less hurt because you understand the human condition/frailty. And it's true, love does open you to getting hurt, but you find you bounce back from the hurt quicker, the longer you walk that path of love. Most people have got to be on the planet a while to see this all take shape.
Quote from: AAAAAAAA on May 21, 2014, 00:55:03
In my opinion, this is bad sometimes. Having too much love causes an imbalance. Not to mention, if you love people too much, you will get hurt by a lot of people.
They will hurt you if you think like a human. If you view all from a higher perspective and understand everyone's personal path, you will realize that they need to experience what they experience and your interactions were set up they way it happens, so that lessons can be learned from both sides. Whether you realize what the lesson is or you don't, that still adds to the expansion of consciousness.
I have been hurt as well, as my first instincts are my human emotions. However, when I stop and think about the person's path and the way they are, I start to understand where they are in their journey and do not judge them. Sometimes I wish certain things could happen the way I want them to, but I know that certain challenges need to be experienced and certain people are just not meant to be in my life, no matter how much I want them to be.
Quote from: LightBeam on May 21, 2014, 03:08:33
They will hurt you if you think like a human. If you view all from a higher perspective and understand everyone's personal path, you will realize that they need to experience what they experience and your interactions were set up they way it happens, so that lessons can be learned from both sides. Whether you realize what the lesson is or you don't, that still adds to the expansion of consciousness.
I have been hurt as well, as my first instincts are my human emotions. However, when I stop and think about the person's path and the way they are, I start to understand where they are in their journey and do not judge them. Sometimes I wish certain things could happen the way I want them to, but I know that certain challenges need to be experienced and certain people are just not meant to be in my life, no matter how much I want them to be.
That's exactly it though, loving people so much that you want to pray for everyone you see... is a human emotion.
Quote from: AAAAAAAA on May 21, 2014, 10:17:17
That's exactly it though, loving people so much that you want to pray for everyone you see... is a human emotion.
What do the statements "Become Love" or "Move closer to Love" mean to you, AAAAAAAA?
I'm speaking in terms of spiritual growth.
Quote from: Xanth on May 21, 2014, 12:08:41
What do the statements "Become Love" or "Move closer to Love" mean to you, AAAAAAAA?
I'm speaking in terms of spiritual growth.
In terms of spiritual growth, definitely not praying for other people. I'd say it just means to have more of it. But to act out upon those emotions can easily be irrational, and dangerous at that.
Quote from: AAAAAAAA on May 21, 2014, 13:36:08
In terms of spiritual growth, definitely not praying for other people. I'd say it just means to have more of it. But to act out upon those emotions can easily be irrational, and dangerous at that.
How about just being generally kind to all conscious beings?
Quote from: AAAAAAAA on May 21, 2014, 10:17:17
That's exactly it though, loving people so much that you want to pray for everyone you see... is a human emotion.
The praying part aside, this kind of love isn't a human emotion. It's your true self. It's the love the people in all those NDEs experience. When they come back to their bodies they are changed and know the reason for their existence here is to learn love. This love can also be experienced in some OBEs and in the physical. The more you pursue it (not just the feeling but acting in kindness to all) the more it will be evident in your life. The kind of love that is the human emotion (not your true self) is tainted with selfishness -such as neediness, jealousy and fear of loss. Also, if you don't like the notion of praying, how about thinking of it as wishing people well, or sending positive healing energy to them? It's really the same thing as long as you have intent behind it.
Quote from: soarin12 on May 21, 2014, 15:52:19
The praying part aside, this kind of love isn't a human emotion. It's your true self. It's the love the people in all those NDEs experience. When they come back to their bodies they are changed and know the reason for their existence here is to learn love. This love can also be experienced in some OBEs and in the physical. The more you pursue it (not just the feeling but acting in kindness to all) the more it will be evident in your life. The kind of love that is the human emotion (not your true self) is tainted with selfishness -such as neediness, jealousy and fear of loss. Also, if you don't like the notion of praying, how about thinking of it as wishing people well, or sending positive healing energy to them? It's really the same thing as long as you have intent behind it.
Well put. :-)
Quote from: AAAAAAAA on May 21, 2014, 10:17:17
That's exactly it though, loving people so much that you want to pray for everyone you see... is a human emotion.
You're right.
I have a lot of the same questions. I realize that it's been awhile since people have posted to this. Are there still people here to engage in conversation?
Quote from: ZenJedi on January 24, 2016, 04:33:24
I have a lot of the same questions. I realize that it's been awhile since people have posted to this. Are there still people here to engage in conversation?
Yup! Fire away. :)
I know it's old, but I feel that A person.
Again, I'm a cynical dude, and I too easily associate buzzwords and catch phrases with nonsense new age philosophies trying to rebrand age old systems of control.
I'm not interested in unconditional love for anyone but myself.
That said, I also feel that if I love myself unconditionally, I will love everyone else as reflections of myself. Not in the "we're all part of the same whole" kind of way, but in the "what you hate about the world is actually what you hate about yourself" shadow self kind of way. So, once I love myself, I will in turn find nothing to not love in the world out there.
All of these concepts of prayer, love, selflessness, etc., just get in my way. They are hindrances to me following my path.
That doesn't mean I'm a jerk though. I am always kind and generous. I just feel better emotionally when I'm nice to other people in action. Verbally, I'm a jerk most of the time. But I've made a habit of helping others whenever they need it. I don't try to analyze that and morph it into my personal philosophy. I'm just nice because I'd hope people would be nice to me.
So I'm coming from a situation a lot like Aaron who started this post. It's been causing me some confusion and now I'm on a quest for truth. I'll try and summarize my experiences, and I can go further into detail you need. I'm just trying to make sense of everything, so I appreciate any input and help.
I was raised Baptist in church growing up learning the stories of the bible. Most forms of the supernatural were considered evil. At the age of 20 I started to take church more seriously. My first church I felt like I heard Gods voice talking to me. I quit my job and moved to go to a discipleship school.
My second church I learned about the gifts of the spirit but didn't see much of it. I was the only person who didn't speak in tongues in my class because I'm not into faking anything. It was more of learning the bible in depth for me.
I felt like God told me to move to another church. So my third church was acting in the gifts of the spirit a lot more. They were known for casting out demons. I was blown away because I felt like I had an epiphany that the bible was much more real. I saw exorcisms first hand with some of my family and close friends. And I went to a seminar class to learn more about it.
My fourth church was known for miracles. Once again I was in awe. I've prayed for people and have seen them healed. I have friends that have been healed, one of stage four cancer. And the church keeps the medical records that prove it. People say if miracles were real then we would see people going into hospitals and clearing out the waiting rooms... but my friends actually do.
I started researching quantum physics which lead me to things like Astral project and metaphysics. I've read a number of posts from here and online so I pretty much know the basics of what most people believe on here. I'm also very very open minded. I've studied all different kinds of religions, but I've always sided with Christianity because of my experiences. I really like Buddhism, but look at it more as a way of life. Lately though, the bibles theology hasn't been making sense to me. It contradicts itself and doesn't come to very strong conclusions. I've always had a problem with the way church's operate, and most are blinded by faith, which if they're right then that's good for them. I've been stumbling onto the early church and all the corruption of Christianity. The things you guys talk about in F3 makes more sense to me than Christianity. I can closely relate charismatic church's to psychics and metaphysics and have heard the gifts of the spirits explained. But I have a hard time because of some of my experiences, mainly the demons and seeing miracles. If you guys have any experience or advice I'm all ears. It's been kind of a rough transition and I don't know what to believe anymore. Thanks for hearing me out.
ZenJedi-
I guess that I was very lucky, my parents were very secular and so I feel that I avoided the whole structured religion-trap. Don't get me wrong, pure secularism has its terrible side. Life without any kind of respect for the greater opportunity that Creation affords us, without any respect for something greater than ourselves, is harmful. Any of these viewpoints taken to their extremes, I think can be destructive both to the community and the individual.
So we find ourselves on particularly individual journeys, such as you have described...fourth church, huh?
I have found certain church experiences wonderful for the communal feeling it gives me, but the overarching phoniness that is present just drives me away; it seems to be the inherent result within any large, bureaucratic structure that invites control and corruption of its members.
The fact that you witnessed possessions and Miracles is wonderful but simply states that within a large group of like-minded people, remarkable changes can be manifested within Physical Reality...it is amazing when you witness it firsthand and it's not all completely explainable.
I like the Buddhist/Taoist tradition as well...if I had to pick one, it would be in there somewhere.
When I was about 8 years old, I was aware of successfully dodging structured religion and yet I was also aware that consciousness was the next frontier, there was something more there; I was interested although my parents weren't (and still aren't).
No one can convince you simply with words, you need to experience this for yourself. The ideas and techniques are here, ready for you to try...and you can then decide for yourself. It takes time and a fair amount of effort; only a rare few get exceptional results the first try. I can only tell you that the journey is real, the sights are real...how far you can take it is only up to you...you have to decide to take the first steps to find out. And yes, it IS worth the effort. You have been looking without and you know the answer is within.
My advice is to start with your dreams...write them down, figure out the symbolism and eventually your dreams will start to tell you things about yourself. Think back over the years to dreams or experiences that stood out for examination, they are there.
It is not a great leap from your dreams to the ecstatic experiences that make up much of the revelatory moments in the Bible. Why should this level of experience be denied to you? Ask and receive...
Oh...and Welcome to the Pulse!
If you look at near death experiences (NDEs), where people are clinically dead, have some kind of afterlife experience, and then come back, there is a whole range of things reported by these people.
People who are Christian or have some kind of fixation with it, even if only subconsciously, often (not always) have heaven or hell-type experiences during NDEs and come back convinced that these places are real. Buddhists and Hindus often have different experiences peculiar to their own religious beliefs, and then some people just float around and look at things as if they were just a disembodied spirit checking out the world. We create our own dreams, whether consciously or subconsciously, and we also guide astral projections in the same way. I suspect that the afterlife is no different.
Things here on the physical plane are much the same. Miracles are totally possible within the paradigm of Christianity, but they are also possible within the belief structures of any other religion. The only thing is that evangelical Christians will say that God or Jesus are performing all of their miracles while everyone elses', even if the results are undisputably positive, are just trickery by Satan to confuse people. I have never seen any religions so fascinated with the idea that everyone outside of their group is in league with devils, as I have with the Abrahamic religions. It's just another kind of recruitment tool in the end, and a way to keep people in line. You need go no further than the history of the Catholic Church to see to what lengths this religion has gone to just to maintain its influence over peoples' minds, from torture (Inquisition) and genocide (annihilation of Native American tribes) to rewriting history books and transforming pagan celebrations into things like Christmas and Easter.
Thanks for the info. It's really hard to break away from something that has been ingrained into your head your entire life. Especially when you've had supernatural experiences to what you think is backing your belief system up. The more I study the more I understand what you guys are talking about. The thing that I have a hard time with is the evil spirits. I've seen unexplainable things and most people deem them unreal. I guess it would make sense to only hear the Christian side to it since that has been my only influence. I'm slowly breaking out of the mind control manipulation of things. :)
Quote from: ZenJedi on February 06, 2016, 19:11:16
Thanks for the info. It's really hard to break away from something that has been ingrained into your head your entire life. Especially when you've had supernatural experiences to what you think is backing your belief system up. The more I study the more I understand what you guys are talking about. The thing that I have a hard time with is the evil spirits. I've seen unexplainable things and most people deem them unreal. I guess it would make sense to only hear the Christian side to it since that has been my only influence. I'm slowly breaking out of the mind control manipulation of things. :)
The only way a person will ever change their mindset completely is when they experience it for themselves. Studying it can help you get other opinions, because the person that is writing is only showing you what "they" have perceived themselves to be true. Many times though they are just "rehashing" what someone else has said as well. Religion in general is well known for that.
The same goes with Astral Projection. You can read, listen to videos, etc. all you want, but experiencing it for yourself will give you the "proof" and answers you are searching for.