If God is undergoing a transfiguration...

[Anonymous]

By the way, I don't necessarily mean "God" per se. Let's just call it (this being or group of beings) whatever you want.

[kakkarot]

my thoughts: we are not mirrors which reflect God, we are the reflections. so no, God is not going through a transfiguration, but we might be.

~kakkarot

[Anonymous]

Ah, but if WE are undergoing a transfiguration, and we are a part of God, then in some way God must be undergoing a transfiguration. God is interacting with God and also with what is not God.

[kakkarot]

a reflection is not a part of the original: it is a copy. by the laws of physics of our world, a reflection is always an exact copy of the original EXCEPT when the surface that the reflection is upon is distorted.

i do not believe the idea that we are part of God. though all things may be tied together in some manner, that does not mean that all things ARE each other. after all, if i eat an apple, does someone in england get the nourishment?[|)]

~kakkarot

[Anonymous]

Nope. But then, you are what you eat. (you were expecting me to say that).

I do believe everything is interconnected, and unless one believes that within each of us is a tiny piece of God, then this theory doesn't work.

[kakkarot]

actually i wasn't expecting you to say it, but as soon as i read it i laughed [|)].

quote:unless one believes that within each of us is a tiny piece of God, then this theory doesn't work

i guess that is why i don't think the theory works then []. i do sort of sense an interconnectedness betwixt all things, and even sort of a sense that God is "in all and through all", but i do not believe that all things are part of one another (or that we are part of God, eventhough we may be connected to Him in some way). just my opinion though [|)].

~kakkarot

[Tisha]

Personally, I believe the person who had the dream described in Revelations probably ate some bad barley or rye before he went to bed (a reason behind many hallucinations in those so-called Good Old Days).  But, I have no evidence, so take it for what it's worth.

Imagine how many people in this world have had strange dreams.  And THIS one is so important?  Like, because someone had a wierd dream, and somebody wrote it down, now we all have to believe the world will end that way?  PAH!

Nothing exists outside of the Divine.  Therefore It cannot transform . . . there is nothing for it to transform into, because It is Everything already.  However, our IDEAS about the Divine and the nature of the Cosmos, along with our Experience in this universe of unlimited possibilities, may transform over time.

[Gandalf]

Forget Revelations please... it seems that its only americans that are still obsessed with christian apocalyptic mythology.
I dont blame you of course, as the more fundamentalist aspects of the US owe their origins to the english 'Pilgrim Fathers' who despite all the 'rosy glow' that has surounded them due to their part in American mythology, in reality they were christian fundamentalist, fanatical nuts... even going so far as trying to establish a puritanical divine version of English that 'was closer to god'.... which of course didnt work.

Never mind the old prostestant vs catholic thing, they are both as bad as each other, do the wild statement of some protestants that the pope is 'an agent of Satan' really show any true kind of intellectial development? Some even equate Catholics with Satanists??!!
btw I'm not trying to promote catholics as they are equally bad in their own right, as catholics accuse everyone who doesnt agree with them as being heratics!
Certainly from an (happy oh so happy!) outside non-christian perspective, I see no real progression within the christian community.


Anyway, thats my take on it; all you folks stateside should stop being hung up on revalations prophesies.... also, many historians agree that most of these writings were refering to the fall of Rome, which the early christian cult of the 1st century was hoping for... of course, the irony was that it was thanks to the later Roman Empire of the 4th century that the christian cult was transformed into a 'world religion'.

Douglas Eckhart

[Trin]

I'm not a Christian, but leaving all the apocalyptic stuff aside for a moment and jumping straight to the end: Revelations 21-22 speaks of "God" bringing the city of New Jerusalem down from heaven to establish it here on Earth. If such an event were to take place on any level, it would seem to represent a transfiguration of both "God" and "man", as well as perhaps a reconciliation/unification between the two. Therefore Revelations not only doesn't contradict the idea of an eventual universal transfiguration, it actually can be read as supportive of it. So I'd say it's relevant to a degree.

Not literal though. As Gandalf correctly notes, Revelations can also be read as an allegory for the relationship between Rome and Judea at the time of it's writing. Another important point is that the "beast" of Revelations shows up in the Old Testament as 4 seperate beasts in Daniel 7: 1-8, while Daniel 7: 9-14 seems to give an encapsulated version of the "end time" not at all dissimilar to John's account, though significantly shorter. Since Daniel predates Revelations by quite some time and the similarities between the imagery is so striking, it's my belief that Daniel is the primary source of it. Not to write off the prophecy altogether, mind you... Daniel and Revelations could also be two different perspectives of the same event. My opinion, however, is that John was specifically writing cautionary parables outlining his idea of the potential dangers of Judea working complicitously with Rome, and that he was using the well-known Daniel as a basis. I therefore think that any "truth" John hit on was probably the result of an inspired accident.

So, in my opinion, relevant, to a degree yes, literal, no. But don't take my word for it, and vive la difference.

[Anonymous]

All is part of the Divine, as Tisha pointed out. Nothing exists outside of it. I think Tisha is right. There is nothing for the Divine to transform into because it is already everything. The more I think about this, the more it changes on me.

[Anonymous]

... is the Book of Revelations relevant or not? Why?

Question you might keep in mind: Is it not us that will determine the nature that he takes, assuming that we are the tiny shards of a shattered mirror that reflects God?

I want to hear anyone's thoughts on this, I don't care what stereotypes you have. I don't care if you're a bible-babbling freak, an atheist, etc. I just want to hear as many different responses from as many different people that are willing to respond.