HELP ME PLEASE.....DOES GOD/JESUS REALLY EXIST????

[Beth]

Mustardseed,

You are correct, I did say that.  If that is what you are talking about, then it must have resonated with you, but that one was not just directed at you personally.

What I did say to you personally, is that you were intellectually lazy--and that is because you won't even try to learn new things, or try to understand the whole picture of that which surrounds the early centuries of Christianity--even though I was not the only one trying their level best to help to understand this.  So, I guess all the other times that I encouraged you, sharing with you A LOT of things regarding the language, philosophy and history of the ancient world is nullified by one of my blanket statements?  

Yes, I have gotten aggravated by your stubborness--but that is because I recognize that you are intelligent--and you just refuse to tap into it and use it.

There have been very good spirited people, very well read people, who yes, are more educated then you--that have made posts about this.  But you have not wanted to listen to any of us, placing as a barrier between us the fact that we ARE educated.  That is hardly a good reason to do so.  Yes, I have posted that I have received some degrees, but that is not to wave them in your face, but rather to show that I have been credited with knowing my material.

quote:I find Beths statement outrageous Adrian. It is a singeled out agression towards Wisp and myself and others who may believe as do we, indicating all sorts of negative things, and you stand by her in this. It is a reversed "inquisition style indoctrination" IMO.

We have not been ganging up on you with an "inquisition style indoctrination"--reverse or otherwise--that has already been done, centuries ago, by the Christian religion.  What has been going on here is a party with cake and ice cream compared to the horrific, barbaric and unimaginable in our world today, acts of the Christian Inquisition.

You have inherited the results of this inquistion--believe or be killed--and a great many people were killed so that Christianity could flourish for the centuries that it has. But you need not worry about your life being taken from you, or the lives of your loved ones for believing as you do.  We may present a different story, but you remain alive and sleep in your own bed every night regardless.

What I do see happening, is a lot of war and terrorism based upon a western religious belief in something that was written over 2,000 years ago, that was written -- not has historical fact -- but as a means of using language to discuss philosophical and metaphysical insights.  It was Greek philosophy--about God--but not "the word" from God.

So what IS "ganging up on Christiainity" in general, is the rapidly increasing knowledge of the ancient period--made available to the many educated people in this world, and by this, the divine realm is apparently seeking to clear up all this mess.  It is spiritual evolution that is "pressing in on you" Mustardseed--not the members of this forum, and not me personally.

Beth

[Mustardseed]

As I said before Beth , kindly stop calling me a fundementalist and group me with various Ministers and tele evangelists and whatnot. I have explained why this is incorrect. I will not be at the recieving end for all the bitterness that flows toward Christianity (falsly so called), I will not take the blame for the inquisition, nor will I do penance for the (UN)Holy wars.

If you believe that the New Age is approaching and that the poleshift is around the corner, well maybe so....lets not disagree on the lets just wait and see. !!

In the meantime Beth let me make up my own mind without your "bullying". Thats what it is really (to me). I said I am thinking it all over comparing notes, reading books, posting questions and praying about it all, and please stop calling me lethargic and stuf like that. That is not fair. You do not know what I study and how I spend my time do you? That is the kind of thing that I find "bullying". I just turned 49 Beth, I am not a fly by night kid anymore. I will take the time I need to make up my own mind, and I get immensly irritated with folks who tell me what I should believe and what I should not believe. Dont you?

So far my beliefs have proven themselves correct through a long life. I would have to have some very strong indication that I should change any of what I believe before I do so. As a saying goes

If it ain't broken don't fix it.

My life makes sense I have a God who hears my prayers. I have seen mighty manifestations in his name. I believe in Him. I have no compelling reason, so far to renounce this faith. I stand by it.

Let me be honest and say that my faith does not come from the internet boards and posts by people I do not even know. As I do not know the source I need to be much more careful to verify what is said. Wouldn't you say that is a prudent approach. Or do you think I should just accept things you and others say becourse ...you say them and lots of people agree with you. I realise I am a minority here but that sounds foolish to me.

Regards Mustardseed

[Beth]

Mustardseed,

I am sorry that my posts seem "bullying" to you.  No, I do not like it at all when someone does that to me.  -- And I have had my share of that for most of my life.  

Where we differ, is that I had some sort of "deep knowing" when I was just a child, that something about the bible stories that I too was taught to be literal, just didn't make sense.  I was only 11-13 years old.  

This has haunted me all of my life, for I do not live in the West as your profile would have me, but rather, "right smack dab in the buckle of the Bible belt."  I have lived my entire life in that same kind of "minority" that you speak of.  I have never been able, in all honesty, to call myself a Christian, and yet had to live my life surrounded by those that do.  With the exception of my mother, my entire family is Christian, from Methodists to Fundamentalists to Catholics.  Mustardseed, I have been a lone sheep within my own family all of my life.

So, in essence, I have not had very many people that I could discuss my "deep knowing" with, and those precious few are my dearest friends.  I have had to reach out to other parts of the country and to other parts of the world to find "like minds" in order to fully investigate and understand why I have always felt the way that I have.  And--I had to go to college and study Christianity in-depth, for myself--to try and figure out this most collosal quandry of my life. But I had to wait until I was 35 years old to do so.  I am now 44.

So Mustardseed, I understand better than you think what it is like to be in the "minority" but I will say this--I wanted to know things that differed from what I had been taught--I needed to know--I felt that my life depended upon it.  I had to do all that I have done to feel comfortable in my own skin, in my own life, as a "minority."

This last post of yours sounds much "nicer" and much more conciliatory.  That does not mean that you have agreed with me either--that means that you are no longer being cruel toward me, and so as you see, I am responding in a like manner.

We have both found ourselves in a very heated debate/discussion.  These things are very personal and very dear to us--and so I guess it is natural that we "come out" with our gloves on when it all gets too close to our comfort zone.  But, you and I both know that this is not loving, spiritual behavior, and we both also know that this is what we should all strive to do at all times.  

So, for all the less than nice things that I have said to you, I extend my heartfelt apology.  It would be nice to now hear the same coming from you, for you have most definately "bested me" with your ability to post hurtful comments.  

Peace,
Beth  

[Mustardseed]

Yes I am quite talented at putting in the knife and finding the weak spot. I do try not to but sadly find myself doing this often with the very people I love as well. My zodiac sign given me some comfort that this is "normal" for folks like me but I try my best to overcome this very negative emotion in me.

I am sorry too , and apologize  for what I have inflicted of hurt in your life. Gloves are off. Lets just talk.I will try my very best to keep the "anticrist" in me under control, and in subjection.

Peace!

Regards Mustardseed

[Beth]

Mustardseed,

[][][]This makes me VERY happy![][][]

Peace!
Beth

[wisp]

Glad to see you smiling Beth. You have some nice input here, thank you. Sorry if you felt I may have skimmed over your rough two years of coming to terms with the new information you have received. I do feel for you. I haven't had to experience dissappointing discoveries about the bible. As mentioned before, my contact with God has always been through prayer, not through any info obtained from the bible. Whatever you say doesn't plunge a knife in my heart, or cause any other reaction. How I relate to the bible hasn't changed for me. Earlier in our conversation, we've talked about creating one's own reality. Though you probably have gone through a realization trauma (if that's worded right), I'm sure you have paved your way in preparedness. I too have had to go through transition in my spiritual life (not on this subject, nor at this time). So I do know some of what you have had to go through. I appreciate what you say about not holding back on those things you have come to know as proof of the truth. To compromise is usually a wrong move, I wouldn't either. I follow what your saying. I enjoy reading what you have found, thanks.

[lau_lauz]

HELP I DONT KNOW WHAT TO THINK, WHERES THE PROOF? WHAT ARE YOUR OPINIONS? HELP ME PLEASE[?]