I have two questions about astral projection and the bible

[zorgblar]

1.If astral projection is literally the spirit leaving the body then how does that fit in with the bible and god and heaven and hell?
2.My family and me are christians and they think astral projection is from the devil and is part of the occult even though they think my spirit literally leaves my body when i do it.But this idea bothers them even more.So are they right?And should i be worried?

[Tayesin]

Hi,
The misunderstandings of your family are quite normal Zorgblar, they have been conditioned/indoctrinated into a belief-system that intends to be the only true religion, therefore it will oppose anything that does not fit into it's box. Your parent's are concerned that you will be tricked by 'satan' and not animate your body again... they fear for your life and soul. But, since that perspective is based only on their chosen attachment to their religion, it can be fallible.

You could show them in the Old Testament where 'God', using Uriel, took Enoch for journeys in Spirit.. therefore if it is sanctioned by 'god' it cannot be from the devil, be occult, etc.

The hardest thing about your situation is in finding a middle ground for you and your family to perceive from. My father has been a born-again christian for about 30 years and he 'hates' what I do for a living because he is indoctrinated into believing that my soul is damned, even though he also believes that 'god' has been communicating with me! It's a catch 22 scenario. We can speak the 'correct' words for them to understand things more clearly, but, we cannot help them past their chosen belief's boundaries/blocks to the bigger picture awarenesses.

Perhaps it is more effective to have your personal experiences and simply appear to tow the expected belief line at home until you are better able to find some middle ground?

I'm not sure how to word this next bit.... I don't think it is our 'spirit' that leaves the body during OBE/astral, I think it is only a portion of our awareness using the subtle astral energy body to move from the 3d body. Soul or spirit might be different things, or maybe not. Perhaps spirit is the energizing factor of all things, whereas soul is what we are on a much bigger picture level of awareness.

It's a sad thing that the world's population wants to argue over who's beliefs are the correct ones. As if any one box of beliefs could be the only true one!

Just remember your family loves you, dearly, and they want what is best in their eyes for you.

Love Always

[zorgblar]

Hi,
The misunderstandings of your family are quite normal Zorgblar, they have been conditioned/indoctrinated into a belief-system that intends to be the only true religion, therefore it will oppose anything that does not fit into it's box. Your parent's are concerned that you will be tricked by 'satan' and not animate your body again... they fear for your life and soul. But, since that perspective is based only on their chosen attachment to their religion, it can be fallible.

You could show them in the Old Testament where 'God', using Uriel, took Enoch for journeys in Spirit.. therefore if it is sanctioned by 'god' it cannot be from the devil, be occult, etc.

The hardest thing about your situation is in finding a middle ground for you and your family to perceive from. My father has been a born-again christian for about 30 years and he 'hates' what I do for a living because he is indoctrinated into believing that my soul is damned, even though he also believes that 'god' has been communicating with me! It's a catch 22 scenario. We can speak the 'correct' words for them to understand things more clearly, but, we cannot help them past their chosen belief's boundaries/blocks to the bigger picture awarenesses.

Perhaps it is more effective to have your personal experiences and simply appear to tow the expected belief line at home until you are better able to find some middle ground?

I'm not sure how to word this next bit.... I don't think it is our 'spirit' that leaves the body during OBE/astral, I think it is only a portion of our awareness using the subtle astral energy body to move from the 3d body. Soul or spirit might be different things, or maybe not. Perhaps spirit is the energizing factor of all things, whereas soul is what we are on a much bigger picture level of awareness.

It's a sad thing that the world's population wants to argue over who's beliefs are the correct ones. As if any one box of beliefs could be the only true one!

Just remember your family loves you, dearly, and they want what is best in their eyes for you.

Love Always

Ok thanks.

[zorgblar]

Hi,
The misunderstandings of your family are quite normal Zorgblar, they have been conditioned/indoctrinated into a belief-system that intends to be the only true religion, therefore it will oppose anything that does not fit into it's box. Your parent's are concerned that you will be tricked by 'satan' and not animate your body again... they fear for your life and soul. But, since that perspective is based only on their chosen attachment to their religion, it can be fallible.

You could show them in the Old Testament where 'God', using Uriel, took Enoch for journeys in Spirit.. therefore if it is sanctioned by 'god' it cannot be from the devil, be occult, etc.

The hardest thing about your situation is in finding a middle ground for you and your family to perceive from. My father has been a born-again christian for about 30 years and he 'hates' what I do for a living because he is indoctrinated into believing that my soul is damned, even though he also believes that 'god' has been communicating with me! It's a catch 22 scenario. We can speak the 'correct' words for them to understand things more clearly, but, we cannot help them past their chosen belief's boundaries/blocks to the bigger picture awarenesses.

Perhaps it is more effective to have your personal experiences and simply appear to tow the expected belief line at home until you are better able to find some middle ground?

I'm not sure how to word this next bit.... I don't think it is our 'spirit' that leaves the body during OBE/astral, I think it is only a portion of our awareness using the subtle astral energy body to move from the 3d body. Soul or spirit might be different things, or maybe not. Perhaps spirit is the energizing factor of all things, whereas soul is what we are on a much bigger picture level of awareness.

It's a sad thing that the world's population wants to argue over who's beliefs are the correct ones. As if any one box of beliefs could be the only true one!

Just remember your family loves you, dearly, and they want what is best in their eyes for you.

Love Always

Were in the old testament are you talking about?Can you give me the name of the book in the bible your talking about and the verses?

[Tayesin]

Hi,
I got a little confused, forgetting the Book of Enoch was no longer part of the bible after Nicene. So for a brief look you could click here to read some info for yourself. http://reluctant-messenger.com/2enoch01-68.htm and here for a better translation at length http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/enoch.htm

In wider reading you might like also to read "Uriel's Machine" by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas. While not religious in nature it is a worthy read for the information it carries.

Sorry about my mistake earlier, it must be the result of my mis-spent youth, lol 

Hope this is some help.

[rockyrojas88]

1.If astral projection is literally the spirit leaving the body then how does that fit in with the bible and god and heaven and hell?
2.My family and me are christians and they think astral projection is from the devil and is part of the occult even though they think my spirit literally leaves my body when i do it.But this idea bothers them even more.So are they right?And should i be worried?

The Spirit in the bible is not to be confused with "soul", which is merely yourself and your mind. The word SOUL in the bible was translated from the Hebrew word "nephesh", meaning "creature" or "animal". In the new testament, the Greek word is "psyche". A living soul is a physical being (whether human or beast) vitalized by the Spirit of life (breath of God). Spirit does have to do with astral projection, but the Spirit in the bible isn't really you (it's only a part of you). What we call "astral projections" are merely visions in the bible, and like any vision or dream, it's a kind of telepathic communication in the spirit.

Astral Projection aren't diabolical, but they can be if they're used for selfish reasons or to delude one's self into believing a fantasy that goes against life itself (and the Life Giver, who is GOD). It's unfortunate that Christianity has been infiltrated with paganism by Papal Rome (where the Catholic church came from) and much of the traditions are disguised as Christian and biblical. For example, Jesus wasn't born on December 25, and the Sabbath isn't on Sundays.

The term "astral projection" tends to have negative connotations by Christians though because it is an occult term among others such as etheric projection for example. These " projection" terms refer to various kinds of "out of body experiences" according to occult views. The term "out-of-body"  experience itself is not occult itself though, but used in parapsychology. For mainstream scientists in psychology, it's just a vivid lucid dream.

In the bible, those who have "astral" visions or dreams don't actually leave their body nor does the spirit of life leave either. in fact, God's spirit is usually in complete control, keeping you alive and aware. So that means there is no worry because of God's protection. Of course, like i mentioned before, if you try to do your own thing, then what happens is you may lose awareness and die. I've even heard of a case though in which someone was continuously being assaulted by a poltergeist after practicing astral projection because she was trying to contact spirits of the dead (demons pose as dead people).

[Rozzy]

Hi Zorgblar

As in most questions like yours concerning something beyond this course realm we live, the opinions you get will vary widely depending on who gives it and what their experience is etc.
Actually OBE is in the bible specifically mentioned by Paul:

(2Co 12:2)  I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

(2Co 12:3)  And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
KJV

There are diverse experiences in the spirit realm that are from two opposing sides, one being the dark realm and the other the light. Just as dreams and visions can come from either side so can uncontrolled OBE be dangerous as well. Typical astral projection people often do alone, not having proper training and backup by an experienced well schooled master a lot of varriables can come into play. You should not be doing this alone!!!! You can be injured and even die without proper training, you may attain a level beyond your experience and not find your way back or if you do you will be in bad shape. You are at the gateway so to speak, I suggest you join up with a knowledgeable, experienced group with some good leadership. The OBE itself is like crawling now you have to learn to run.

Rozzy

[Rozzy]

Quote
The Spirit in the bible is not to be confused with "soul", which is merely yourself and your mind. The word SOUL in the bible was translated from the Hebrew word "nephesh", meaning "creature" or "animal".


Actually the soul has five parts three of which we have common understanding for.
Neshamah - breath
Ruach - spirit
Nefesh - flesh


Simply put many people believe the soul is the mind and the spirit is the life force but that is not really the case.
The soul has a unique essence, a living essence and then Neshamah, Ruach and Nefesh. Just thought I would throw that in.

Rozzy

[David Warner]

Zorgblar,

I'll make this simple and hopefully clear up any concerns about the bible, devil, and
out-of-body experiences.

First, I have been a constant weekly projector since 1987 w.o missing a beat. I have had a my good/bad OBEs, educational, spiritual, you name it.

In the twenty years plus, because of my OBEs I a hospice volunteer to the dying, foster care mentor to a teenage girl, attend church weekly (christian), never been to jail, booked for crimes, killed anyone, pay my taxes, am a IT consultant, author of a upcoming book, guest speaker on radio shows, family orientated, adopting a child from china, stopp'd drinking alcohol socially, exercise, college educated etc. Okay, I have said enough..

If the devil is in anything of this - I fail to see it. Do I have my flaws "Yes" just like everyone else, but am I doing something about it to be a better person "You Bet". I don't pretend to know it all, but experience outweigh's opinnion.

First hand experience, education, and intent is the key to better understanding Out-of-Body experiences vs. opinnions and lack of knowledge. I am not bashing your loved one's, but like yoda said "Fear, Unknown, Leads to the Dark Side". This is where experience, education and "One's Intent of Projecting" come into play that removes all of this.

I sat down and set up a discussion with my local minster and he was with me on the Out-of-Body experiences based on my "Intent" and what I have done for the community. I thought he would start throwing Holy Water on me, instead he said that it is a legitimate religious tool.

There are millions of ways to reach God and help people... OBE is just another path!

What I said is available on my web site www.invisiblelight.us

Hope this helps!

tvos

[rockyrojas88]

The soul has a unique essence, a living essence and then Neshamah, Ruach and Nefesh. Just thought I would throw that in.

Rozzy

You have a point there, since nefesh technically means "living being" and perhaps even "breathing creature". In other words, one who is alive.

[kamals]

The division of the human being into a triad is more or less consistent across the board irrespective of tradition, where a dyad division is spoken of it is usually a result of degradation of knowledge.

The Hebrew terms mentioned are a Kabalistic division
Neshamah, Ruach, and Nefesh

Nefesh is not flesh, it is derived from the word relating to breath. Nefesh is the same as the Aramaic Naphsha

The three corresponding terms in Arabic terms, in Islamic thought are
Nafs - Soul (from breath)
Ruh - Spirit (from wind)
Jism - Body / Flesh

Ruach in modern Hebrew is the same as Ruah which is a direct Hebrew cognate of the Arabic Ruh Nefesh is obviously the Arabic Nafs.

The Nafs / Nefesh is the animal soul, the Latin "Animus" which is the set of modalities composed of the vital energies of the being, its most sublime prolongations touch the Ruh which includes the "heart" or "qalb" the heart being the subtle center in one's being that is the seat of the soul, and the spiritual organ by which one knows God. It is roughly equivalent to the Heart Chakra though in middle eastern traditions the Heart is a "latifa" - or subtlety that encompasses larger aspects of one's being than the Heart chakra.

Basically the heart chakra is a portion of the "heart" par excellence. The Heart is the seat of the intellect or 'aql which is NOT the source of reason, as modern Western thought surmises, rather it is the reflection of the spirit itself.

The Nafs is also equivalent to the psyche, thus it is an intermediate zone of one's reality and being between pure spirit and corporeal incarnated flesh.

That which "astral projects" is a specific modality of the Nafs, of the soul, depending on whether it is a "real time zone" projection, and etheric projection or a "higher astral" projection, different modalities of our being are involved, the discussions on this board on Astral projection versus "phasing" reflects this matter, the psyche is a continuum, the soul is a continuum, even the body is, all are modalities of the same being and can experience consciousness in different modes.

Regarding Christian fears of "demons" and "demonic realities" relating to astral projection – I am not Christian. However these fears are not without grounding, the very nature of the world in which the energies of the psyche, the nafs, are most at home is what the ancient Greeks called "Daemonic" and the world of the Daemons is NOT evil, however it is ambiguous, highly so, in flux, subject to change depending on one's thoughts and the thoughts of other beings with which one interacts, and the intelligences that are at home in the Daemonic world can be, like human beings in the flesh, benevolent and kind, as well as capricious and cruel, and above all highly misleading.

The Ancient Celt's legends of the Fairy world related to this level of reality.

Magic deals with this level of reality.

There is a "glamour' a sort of entrapping beauty that characterizes this world, which is why in some spiritual traditions like certain schools of Yoga, Buddhism, as well as Islamic Sufism, the practitioner is generally steered away from this world and "projecting" into it as a cultivated skill due to their tendency to "become stuck there"

Such people are tended to be called "space cadets" in modern parlance, and every New Age scene has its few.

And there are highly spiritual entities in this world, but there are also highly dangerous, and malevolent ones as well and then general pleasant received wisdom that such beings are only in the "lower astral" and not the "higher" one is a partial truth, at best, and in all of this it demands a clarity of will, vision, and intent that is apart from "psychic joyriding"

So your Fundie Christian isn't completely off the mark, he is expressing a partial truth poorly understood.

Certain types of meditation and techniques produce a partial dislocation of modalities of our psyche, almost as a side effect, they can be isolated and cultivated into the point that this side effect is made into a primary effect and certain aspects of the world may be explored and experienced in this state in a more profound degree than in ordinary waking consciousness.

But one must always keep one's wits about one, no matter in what neighborhoods one wanders And idle wandering isn't spiritual seeking, it is sightseeing.

And it is best to walk on some streets in the light of day, and best to avoid certain alleyways in the dark.