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Can someone tell me what's wrong with the scientific community?

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rezaf

I just don't understand why there isn't any solid research on AP. I don't think that AP is now limited to just a few secretive shamans and the number books written about it as well as the number of posts on forums shows clearly that many ordinary people can do it. So why isn't there any scientific group working on it? My own remote viewing experiments have proved it to me that at least sometimes it shows the exact things that are happening in the physical world and therefore it can be experimented on. If a scientific group works on it they can easily solve many of the spiritual questions of the human beings and win a nobel prize. Even if let's say it is not real and just our own mind tricks it is still a very important psychological phenomenon and if they can figure out how it works maybe they can create drugs that can cause and prolong this experience and make lots of money.

Stillwater

Well, it is easy to overlook that while science itself is objective and apolitical, the scientific community is absolutely dominated by politics and social pressures. You cannot research anything you want, period. There are sorts of paths and threads that branch off from accepted theories, with thinner branches getting into increasingly more speculative areas. OBE and remote viewing occupy HIGHLY speculative areas which are very far from the main trunks of any accepted theories, so there is a ton of friction against anyone wanting to fund or participate in such research.

Then you have to look at the structure of how research is deseminated. Research is meaningless if it isn't published for others to read. Add to this the fact that there are "gatekeepers" controlling who gets to publish in these journals, and what gets published, namely the primary editors. There is limited space for publishing, and they don't allow much that is too far off the beaten track to make it by, so if you can't get published, you don't spend the time to do the research. And also consider that relationships with those editors is everything. If you attached your name to such research even once, it really diminishes your credibility in their eyes, and severely limits your future opportunities in any publishing field with them.

So in theory science should be exploring all possible boundaries and areas out there, but it isn't. The scientific establishment sticks to what it knows and likes, and is hardpressed to be goaded to go a place it doesn't want to go. Unfortunately the scientific community begins to take on much of the structure of a religion; granted, it is a much less dogmatic religion which is open to change on a lot faster rate, but generally things go in around 20 year cycles. You need to wait for the last crop of theory holders to die off before there is room to explore new stuff.

The climate was right around the time of the 70's, where you saw people like Charles Tart or Monroe, but the headwinds have turned against this stuff again, and will not likely return for decades.
"The Gardener is but a dream of the Garden."

-Unattributed Zen monastic

rain_88

I think science is just another form of religion, so researching these topics equals blasphemy. It is funny how the supposed-to-be open minded can't think outside the box. I think the majority is so immersed in their ingrained beliefs that dismisses anything that can't be scientifically proven, that is not repeatable, not objective enough, not aided by statistics. And yeah, you can't publish these results in prestigeous journals. Who will invest money in such a nonsene? On the other hand, these people are so attached to their credibility and impact factor - can you believe it, researchers collect impact factors and bow before each others number - that they wouldn't risk loosing their precious reputation.
I am sorry, I am so, for the things you don't know
And as for the things you do, I am sorry for those too


Stillwater

"The Gardener is but a dream of the Garden."

-Unattributed Zen monastic

proyect_outzone

#5
Science has an unwritten major rule since the beginning of mankind: What scientists not believe will not be researched.

Example:

In history are many examples of ignorance. Most known example is: The earth has been flat until columbus found america.

But even the current scince is not free of ignorance: Rogue waves didnt exist until 1995. Physical evidences had been there (several from bottom to top destroyed large ships). But these had been simply ignored. No one heared to seamans, who told about. Those who told about had been threated, as if they would have told about UFOs. No one believed the existence of rogue waves until an device on an oil platform measured in 1995 (!!!) several rogue waves. No more way to ignore.

Now does scince the same thing with the supernatural things. Even real evidences will be ignored (like in the mentioned case of the rogue waves) until there is no way to continue ignoring.

Wi11iam

Quote from: rezaf on April 09, 2013, 23:48:15
I just don't understand why there isn't any solid research on AP. I don't think that AP is now limited to just a few secretive shamans and the number books written about it as well as the number of posts on forums shows clearly that many ordinary people can do it. So why isn't there any scientific group working on it? My own remote viewing experiments have proved it to me that at least sometimes it shows the exact things that are happening in the physical world and therefore it can be experimented on. If a scientific group works on it they can easily solve many of the spiritual questions of the human beings and win a nobel prize. Even if let's say it is not real and just our own mind tricks it is still a very important psychological phenomenon and if they can figure out how it works maybe they can create drugs that can cause and prolong this experience and make lots of money.

There are different levels of science - and it pays to remember that science as we know it today has evolved from 'magic' from 'wizards' whose talents and impulses and human curiosity led to discovering how to create other things from things.
Science has always been the undercurrent, even with religion - religion is something of a branch of science as it has evolved.

Most science that we are aware of has a political/business agenda which if funded by taxpayer private and public investors, but in general it is limited to what those funding or controlling the flow of funds require and how they think in terms of their particular moralities.

It is not unrealistic to understand that it is probable that science is also working secretly and funded by anonymous private investors exploring areas which are still religiously,culturally and even politically taboo at present and are inclusive of 'spiritual' discovery and interaction with the unseen/non physical realities and working with those realities as a partnership.

It is also likely that some leakage occurs purposefully in relation to  secret science and known science - likely too that secret science is well ahead of the game in terms of knowledge and ability gained from scientific exploration into the not-very-well-known non physical realities and might well purposefully leak things which assist the slower more resistant science - I suspect that the invention of the internet (to name but one thing) came about through this process.


Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind

desert-rat

The c.i.a. and military have used remote viewing , and it is said that there are astral guards at area 51 .  I would think some part of science does acept remote viewing and the astral .  
p.s. Robert Monroe meet up with some astral guards for prez. Kenedy in the early 60s

Wi11iam

Quote from: desert-rat on April 11, 2013, 11:21:41

Robert Monroe meet up with some astral guards for prez. Kenedy in the early 60s

What were they doing on they day he was assassinated? :D
Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind

Astralzombie

Quote from: Wi11iam on April 11, 2013, 17:18:24
What were they doing on they day he was assassinated? :D


Probably telling him, "see, we told you the astral was real"
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
Mark Twain

desert-rat

Quote from: Wi11iam on April 11, 2013, 17:18:24
What were they doing on they day he was assassinated? :D

I have thought on this , it would be my guess that the guards were just to protect him from astral attack .   Other guards were to protect him in the phyical world .  It is my understanding that his guards did not like the idea of him ridding in a open car . As I remember Monroe ran into the astral guards by accdent while in Hyains port MA , a fav. hang out of the Kenedys

rezaf

Thanks for your answers. I don't know anything about the sectret organisations But if there is an institute that is openly doing research I would want to volunteer, or maybe I just pay Obama a visit to see if has any super agents around him :evil:

desert-rat

I dont know if Mr Obama has astral guards , it would me my guess that he does . There is the Monroe institute , I dont know if they take volunteers , or charge for services , but you could contact them and find out .  http://www.monroeinstitute.org/community/   I know they have hemi-sync cds , mp3s for sale , and some are on you tube . 

Frequent Flier

Isn't possible that there's also some measure or degree of cover-up involved? Proving such amazing things might make them too accessible to too many people.

For example we've heard that the US military experimented with ESP... and that the results were disappointing.

But maybe, in order to maintain a strategic advantage, they'd say: we've tried it, and it doesn't work. But in reality it would.

You have to wonder why so many people, on their own, have so many interesting experiences, but if you listen to skeptics and science.. the results are so vague, that there doesn't seem to be much to it if anything.

Even if it's difficult to always produce this at will, extensive experimentation should at least bring out something interesting..

rezaf

Even if someone is covering up this kind of research in America, It's difficult to imagine that they can stop all the private investors as well as all the other countries in the world. On the other hand it's also difficult to understand why there isn't enough work being done with all this evidence. It really doesn't make sense. Honestly if no one is doing anything then I hope I can convince my university to do something. They are supposed to be a TCM university but instead of doing research on qi, meridians,.... They are playing with chemicals and herbs to make shampoos and cosmetics.

desert-rat

Shampoos and cosmetics make money .  There was a guy on cost to  cost a few nights ago that uses p.k. to effect dice rolls . If some one were good at p.k. they might get  some kind of collage research going .  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5suRSl-yuM  http://h33t.com/torrent/5213101/coast-to-coast-am-04-07-13-mental-energy-h33t    If you were good at p.k. and good at dice , you could just go to Las Vegas until they kicked you out of  the craps tables .    A few years ago at a local AZ casino I used my mind ( maby ) on a slot mch. for about $250 . 

Wi11iam

Quote from: Frequent Flier on April 12, 2013, 01:57:52
Isn't possible that there's also some measure or degree of cover-up involved? Proving such amazing things might make them too accessible to too many people.

For example we've heard that the US military experimented with ESP... and that the results were disappointing.

But maybe, in order to maintain a strategic advantage, they'd say: we've tried it, and it doesn't work. But in reality it would.

You have to wonder why so many people, on their own, have so many interesting experiences, but if you listen to skeptics and science.. the results are so vague, that there doesn't seem to be much to it if anything.

Even if it's difficult to always produce this at will, extensive experimentation should at least bring out something interesting..

From my own observations the vagueness doesnt just apply to science and there is a degree of ego created 'reality' which has a way of veiling things in relation to those experiencing altered states of reality.
As to strategic advantage, this is an interesting expression - having 'interesting experiences' - even if millions were doing this, they dont seem connected in any way which brings them altogether to some strategic advantage which is helpful.

Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind