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Author Topic: crazy?  (Read 5675 times)
James S
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« on: September 13, 2004, 09:56:25 »

Yes.....

Welcome back!
Good to see you again.[Smiley]

Yes, I do agree that there is a very thin grey line there, which can and does get crossed.

I have recently been learning more of the spirit world through direct contact with its inhabitants. Though I've been blessed to have only been in contact with the helpful and loving ones, I don't believe this is because I'm just lucky. It's because I believe most of the nasty ones don't come from outside a person, they come from inside.

Regards,
James.
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Aileron
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2004, 00:16:59 »

Im glad this was brought up, but also I believe it to be rather an obvious answer for something that has so many branches.

In my opinion there really is no dividing line between mentally healthy and those who are not besides the ones we give ourselves, but people tend to put the line there, and must as well, for at least a general observation of what can be construed as average mental stability for most people.

I do believe many people here on these forums have had experiences or understanding of what they discuss and are healthy individuals, but I also definately do see the signs of certain repetative symptoms in which mark grainy resolution of reality for some.

Really, when dealing with forums such as these there are no clear cut ways of diagnosing, nor should there be, any individual who discusses something that can be taken as rather insane.
I think really the only things we need to be concerned about are those individuals or even sites, in which produce such strong attributes designating action taken in accordance to the discussion on hand, such as heavy druguse, sexual misconduct/abuse, suicide, homicide or anything damaging to the individual or those around them.

Otherwise the only thing that can be done is taking notes of those who display progressional symptoms of such illnesses and perhaps advise, without accusation nor condesention, treatment or therapy.


The net is of course a magnet for those with ideas and opinions which thrive off of fantasy, and most people who live average lives take a break from those mundane things, by losing themselves in the world on the computer.

This is a topic that could go on and on though, pointing out examples in constant unity with parallels found in textbook documents and cases.

Unless there is one and I am missing it, perhaps there should even be a forum here concerning this topic in case there are people who are afraid for themselves or others and need advice. It seems many topics are covered here and I think psychology and mental illness fits in with so many base subjects, it would loop itself in nicely here.
just a thought though.
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2004, 00:16:59 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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clandestino
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2004, 04:09:35 »

I agree with Aileron... We should be actively concerned when individuals display signs that they might be about to bring harm to themselves or others.

Good to see you back here, Goingslow. Hope that you are enjoying your new line of work !

Every now and then, I read comments made within these discussions that appear to come from people suffering from "mental illnesses". Unfortunately, as you know, just saying "mental illness" in this context will probably provoke some readers - simply because it is a dirty phrase. People suffering from mental illness are often victims of prejudice.

As James has said, this is a grey area. Indeed, his comment, :
 
quote:
I have recently been learning more of the spirit world through direct contact with its inhabitants.

....might be just enough to persuade some psychiatrists that he is in need of medication ! [Smiley]

Most astralpulse members, including myself, are already well within this grey area. Is it because we are insane ? Or because we believe in things that go against the status quo ?

* even that last comment came out with a conspiratorial tone to it, hee hee. I didn't mean it like that, honest !


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daem0n
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2004, 13:22:18 »

most of the problems indeed come from oneself, but cases in PSD are mainly new people with weird situation that mistake various symptoms of disease, anxiety and such with attack, as i was doing when i was adjusting to new senses, but i really doubt that one can label them as schizophrenia without investigation, and it could only make the situation worse

and, of course, take into account that some of them may have performed rituals without understanding and won't admit it, as i did

my 2 cents

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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2004, 13:56:32 »

[Cheesy] Insanity? Who draws the line there??
Schrinks maybe? You think we can trust those "sane" people who constantly are dealing with "insane" people??
I believe they might be afected with this disease aswell... Afterall they don't put on gloves ! lol

sorry...just a thought[Wink]
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2004, 13:56:32 »



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James S
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2004, 01:57:27 »

quote:
Originally posted by clandestino
....might be just enough to persuade some psychiatrists that he is in need of medication ! [Smiley]


[Cheesy][Cheesy][Cheesy]
Oh, they know that already.
What I'm NOT telling them about though is all the cool stuff I'm seeing BECAUSE of the medication!

Hehehe...
[Wink]
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Aileron
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2004, 03:00:56 »

hey, there's plenty of meds out there that open the mind up as well as close it off.

Id just like to say, either and or, to take or not to take, that is the question.
It will all end up coming out the way its probably supposed to be.


Here is a question. There are those of us, who know, that we could easily be diagnosed with any number of disorders. Now is it with those disorders which tell us that we could possibly be crazy, or in the fact that we know we are probably insane anyway, we are actually quite sane. In fact more so than those who believe themselves to be sane, do average things each and every day, go to work, come back from work, lardy dardy doo.
Are we better off thinking ourselves insane?
And not hopelessly locked up pill popping shock therapy watch out for the guy with the tin foil on his head crazy, though they are all possible.
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beavis
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2004, 03:32:26 »

I'm less crazy than people who pray, dont get answers, and continue to pray.
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MJ-12
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2004, 13:27:12 »

bn
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Rastus
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2004, 13:41:29 »

I was mentally ill for a long time.  I suffered from severe chronic depression.  I also dabbled in Metaphysics, which is a worse combination than drinking and driving.

So one day I decided to seek professional medical help.  Now the cure can be worse than the disease, and some Anti-Depressants were like throwing gasoline on a bonfire.  But, and this is where the difference lies, one medication let me be lucid enough to focus and center.  Once I could focus and center, all it took was some soul searching (re-finding my higher self) and I was 'cured'.  It really was that dramatic.  Now by every medical definition you want, I can't possible be cured.  Well, ask my wife.  So what was the 'cause' of my depression?  Dis-ease, what else [Wink]  I know that now.

As to other peoples ailments?  I firmly believe that a lot of posts about NEGs on this forum are self generated.  I know this with certainty having worked with several of the posters.  Whether mental construct, or drawing something too you, they are generated by thoughts and actions.  A smattering are generated by other people on these forums against others (conciously or unconciously, does it matter?).

This is not the wading pool for toddlers.  This is the ocean of life, don't wade in past your waist if you can't swim.  Learn to swim before you jump in, it doesn't take that long.
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2004, 04:49:31 »

Note, that people (and industries) who give "health advice" usually benefit from the fact that we are "sick" or "mentally ill", and if we were "healthy" they would go BROKE...You take pills/medicine or seek help from doctors only to feel even more ill and worse, so ill that sometimes it makes people think they are better but eventually they get sick again or have some problem later on ... they might appear to help you but only temporarily...maybe we should seek help from ourselves instead?....In my opinion anyone who doesn't atleast question the possibility of this so called "insanity" could possibly be "crazy" for the fact that they are denying it....but who knows...

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Euphoric Sunrise
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2004, 06:22:57 »

The link between mentally handicapped people and those of this message board can be made when one factor of each situation is highlighted. I'm talking about the environment in which "mentally unstable" thoughts occur - an environment that is outside "normal rational thought".
What i'm saying is people on this forum are delving into areas which are commonly swept aside by a decent amount of the human race, as are the mentally unstable.
The distinction between a mentally handicapped person and "us" is not made so easily, if there is a difference. I would say, in a severely simple way, that the rationale of the person is an important factor in deciding whether it is healthy or unhealthy. When i say unhealthy i don't necessarily mean a severe, obsessive frame of mind or anything that necessarily requires any medication, but perhaps just an absense of skepticism and presence of willingness to just believe. Sure, it can get to stages where medication is the supposed solution, but i'm drawing a much larger circle here.

Perhaps it can all be linked to a human desire to be free from society's mould, or to belong somewhere. Some activily search and explore different paths, while others are so frantic to escape something that they latch on to a particular theory without first exploring its truths and fallicies.

PS - Welcome back, goingslow [Smiley]
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Tayesin
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2004, 07:47:46 »

Welcome back Goingslow [Cheesy]

What's wrong with Crazy ?  [Tongue][Tongue][Tongue]

Apply yourself to Awakening spiritually and you will often think you have gone over the line to Insanity, however briefly.  If you don't, then other people around you will !  Especially once you know your-Self !!!

The majority of first world people have Schizophrenia to some degree.  A fact that you could verify with research.  

Foods and water additives, clothing materials, building supplies and finishes, all industrial processes that provide all the 'needs' of our consumer society are also to blame for behaviour changes, as well as genetic changes in the human race.  These things are impacting our mental and physical health as an entire race.

What constitutes Sanity or Not, is an agreed concept of "where the line is drawn".  It is a remnant of Old Times thinking, having hardly stirred from slumber since Frued's theories were accepted across the board.

Each person is experiencing Their form of Reality, whether we think they are or not.

Very few of us have the personal experience base to KNOW what another person's reality is and whether it is healthy for them...  unless people are getting hurt, which was said much earlier in this thread.

Perhaps what the patients are experiencing is vastly divergent openings to higher awarenesses that they were not mentally, emotionally, or psychically prepared for, and because of this they may have no way to communicate it in any way other than what our culture would call 'insanely'.

Should this be the case it allows for 'neg' activity as a reality that the Mental Health Industry is not and doesn't want to recognise as such.  And this would also go some way to explain the more aberrant(spelling?) behaviours.

It's just a thought.

Love Always. [Smiley]

PS. Neg activity has to be partially from the 'Victim'.  They had to have included the option for the experience in their life contracts.
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2004, 08:13:26 »

This subject is very deep and involved and requires a lot of personal experience to get an answer. That said I suggest some experimentation with a person who is willing. If you don't wish to try this then research on the people who have.

Now I am not saying attack the people, let's say with the first example below you try to make them hungry or something. Nothing too big here it's just an experiment.

1) see if, by astral projection or remote viewing, you can influince the individuals thoughts (Robert Bruce claims to have done this, among many other individuals who have high merit and are trustworthy.)

2) See if, by reversing empathic connections, you can cause feelings to suddenly pop up in others. (I have witnessed this happen plenty of times.)

3) see if, by faking doing the above, the individual still feels the results.

That's all the experimentation I can  think of that would show how some of this might or might not occur, the rest of the experimentation is simply too hard on the people doing the experiment.

In the cases I work with (I help individuals in psychic attack cases) most individuals are working with lower astral forms or inner demons created from past experiences and brought to being in thier subconscious. A very small percentage of the cases are literal demons who influince individuals via connections through the "back door" of the mind.
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Rob
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« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2004, 12:10:31 »

Hey, good to see you again.

First, I would like to point out that people who are seriously mentally unstable in the way you mean, are pretty rare on these forums. A few names spring to mind, but they are a vast minority.

Thats said, I have a few points to make:

First, from my own limited experience, people who turn schizophrenic or etc tend to totally eschew the norms of society, their minds go so "out there" and they start living in a sort of fantasy land. So is it really suprising when they show a heavy interest in the far out stuff we discuss? Its all so much more interesting and weird, it makes sense that they are drawn to the paranormal like moths to a flame.
Perhaps it is that they give themselves up to the inner urge I think we all have to add more colour and sparkle to their lives, only they lack the discrimination and rational thought processes which allow people to be more than simply naive. While a lot of these people do get interested in psychic attack, energy stuff, paranormal etc etc you have no doubt discovered that this is not the only topic they'll live out. For instance, a true schizophrenic is just as likely to believe that they are a secret service agent whose name is high on the governments assasination list as they are to believe that they are under possession from beelzebub and his minions.

Second point - who's to say they aren't??? Either of the examples I have given, while admittedly unlikely, could possibly be real life examples that have sprung up from a core of truth. Crazy stuff can unbalance people who are not used to it - perhaps some of the people you met were sane and into the paranormal, but pushed their luck too far and fell over the edge of insanity? Bear in mind that if you push yourself too fast and hard in the area of spiritual and/or psychic delevopment you do run the heavy risk of doing yourself some *serious* psychological damage.
Slow and steady is the best way.

Third point - chicken or egg scenario. Suppose someone was under seriously harsh psychic attack, this is enough to unbalance most people. However, someone who is psychologically unbalanced may well attrack negs to them, and then who's gonna believe them when they say they see "things" in their room at night? Yeah right, go take your medication and stop bothering us with silly tales, we have real work to do etc.
I have mentioned this example a few times on these forums, but I'll say it again. I saw a program on a teenage mental hospital, and it was plain as day to me that at least half the people there were not insane (or at least if they were, that wasn't all), but were infact under terrible psychic attack. Now, many might ask how I can tell the difference between and ravings of a lunatic and a genuine case. Basically, psychic attack has a number of different hallmarks - but an unbalanced rant could bring up "anything". They would be just as likely to say they see pink elephants wearing tuxedos tapdancing their way down the trunks of oak trees, while singing the welsh national anthum in swahili, but they didn't. Examples include what I said above about seeing typical "shadow people" in their rooms at night, full bodily paralysis, overwhelming sense of dread, and "disturbing" ("" for the understatement..) core images being rammed hard into their heads each night (bear in mind that none of the people I saw on this program said they were under psychic attack, they simply described the symptoms).
Expanding on this point, someone who was genuinely unbalanced and taken to such an institution, will be at a much higher risk of coming under psychic attack simply because of their proximity to so many negs (if you think about it, mental instituions must be like all-you-can-eat buffets to a neg). So I think it would be very unwise to simply dismiss all such cases as "delusional", though no doubt some may be.

Fourth point - given that someone is under psychic attack, whether they are schizophrenic or not, this sort of thing naturally tends to push people towards investigating the paranormal as then then have a base of proper life experience to draw on, something most people are lacking (or if not lacking, then they are "sane" enough to be able to explain it away - ROFL!!!!!!). Flipside, if you did have someone who went loony and started seeing things that genuinely were not there, but they believed were, then what happens when a doctor tells them they are simply imagining it and are hallucinating? They'll not believe the doctor, and go looking for their own answers. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to predict where they'll end up...

Lastly, as mentioned eg by tayesin, some of them might be fully sane, and its only the limited perception of doctors that labels them mentally ill.

So yeah, IMO there are a lot of different reasons fo what you describe, but it would be grossly unfair to say that since loonies can believe in psychic attack, anyone who believes in psychic attack is a loony. But hey, I'm sure you know that already, right?? [Wink]

adio...

Rob
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goingslow
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2004, 09:41:54 »

Thank you everyone for your replies.  I want to go into further detail on this subject but i have to post at work since my computer is broken.  There are some instances where I think its possible an "attack" is happening.  for example in cases where people hear "the devil" telling them to hurt themselves.. It amazes me how many schizophrenics hear negative voices telling them they're useless or they should hurt themselves.  On the other hand I can see how those things can be explained as neg activity and that diagnosis could be wrong.  Its like once you believe in neg activity and from RB's writings you can believe its all attacks which isnt the case either.

Either way there's something going on. Ive also become more skeptical over the past year.  Im not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing yet.
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Tayesin
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2004, 11:19:03 »

quote:
Originally posted by goingslow

Either way there's something going on. Ive also become more skeptical over the past year.  Im not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing yet.



Hi GS,

Healthy scepticism is a positive characteristic, as long as it can be modified as experience demands.  Gut feelings are a good indicator of what to be sceptical about and what not to be, as you already know.

And hay, it is good to see you posting here again.  

Tay [Tongue]
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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2004, 21:55:10 »

I personally believe that at least in a good amount of supposed neg attacks the "neg" could very well just be a part of the person's own conscious, created from fears or traumatic past experiences etc. This description doesn't sound all that different to me than the behaviour of these schizophrenic people you mention, goingslow.

I don't think the difference between a schizophrenic who hears voices, or sees apparitions, is all that different from a person who believes they are being attacked by negs constantly.
I'd like to try and find a difference, but i'm unaware of any studies undertaken on people like those in self defense forums and schizoprenics. I'll try it anyway [Tongue]. As far as i'm aware (just found out now), schizophrenia is caused by, or at least "associated with dopamine imbalances in the brain and defects of the frontal lobe and is caused by genetic, other biological, and psychosocial factors." (dictionary.com [Cheesy]) Now i would think, but again i'm certainly no expert, that those who are aware of neg activity maybe have some "psychosocial factors", but i'm not sure whether they would have any defects of the frontal lobe.

Other than the above mentioned *possible* difference, i think the situations might be sort of in the same field. I think the negs that a person on a message board like this experiences and the negs a schizophrenic person experience could very well be exactly the same thing, it's just that the defects of the frontal lobe perhaps cause the schizophrenic person to find the attacks more vivid or they have more trouble recognizing what it might be, or something like that.
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goingslow
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2004, 07:34:09 »

Hey everyone.  Some of you might remember me from a while back.  A lot of things have happened since i stopped coming to this forum.  The thing i wanted to bring up for discussion is mental illness.  Ive recently started working in the mental health field.  What sort of bothers me and makes me question so much of this stuff is the number of people who are schizophrenic who share similiar beliefs.  

I see the parallel mostly in the self defense section where people think everyone is out to get them.  But there are so many other parallels.  More and more with the far out posts about government conspiracies and people talking to aliens I see so many similarities to the patients here.  

Im not accusing and i still believe and have astral projections and lucid dreams.. but the line can be thin sometimes.  Any non defensive thoughts on this?

thanks
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