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Author Topic: Demons for you, Demons for me, Demons for everyone  (Read 10751 times)
Parmenion
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2003, 22:36:56 »

quote:
Originally posted by kakkarot


i guess i'm drawing a lot of flames (not from everyone, but from enough) just because others don't want to believe that there might actually be someone out there more powerful than they are. maybe tom was right: maybe i am too good for this forum [V].

~kakkarot



I had to read that last paragraph twice to make sure I wasn't seeing things. Still though, at least now I know what you were thinking when you posted this
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4636

Stay safe,

Parmenion
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Euphoric Sunrise
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2003, 23:03:01 »

Now, i know nothing of summoning any sort of spirit, but i'm still going to have my say.
Kakkarot, wouldn't it be wiser to first find somebody who you know has done this before, and who you trust can do it safely, and have them do it again while you are with them. If that were possible (i've read it is) then at least you would see first-hand what actually goes down when you summon a demon. And if after that you remain focused on doing it, then all the more power to you.
You don't seem swayed by all the posts on here of people who care enough about you to be so concerned, so one more isn't going to do it. All i have to say, apart from the above, is if you are serious then good luck to you. As i said i know nothing of summoning spirits, therefore i have no idea how powerful 'demons' really are, but if they are as powerful as people say they are, you'll need all the luck you can get.
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2003, 23:03:01 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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alchimiste
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« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2003, 08:11:49 »

So how did it go?

Did you beat it?

Which demon did you summon?

Or haven't you done it yet?.......Too busy training on "street fighter" to get the moves down with your gaming buddies!

Come on! tell us what happened, all us junior members with less than a thousand posts are waiting for the master to speak of his great battle with the forces of darkness!

An impatient Alchimiste
(student of the mighty kakkarot)
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Alchimiste
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« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2003, 09:13:58 »

Someone who truly has the ability to step in the ring with a demon and come out intact is someone who I believe posesses two particular qualities -

1) the power to be able to survive summoning a demon, let alone control or vanquish it,

2) the wisdom to not even try something that stupid in the first place.

To my way of looking at it, deliberately summoning a demon is kind of like seeing a button with a big sign on it saying "Destroy Universe - do not press this button under any circumstance", and pressing it just to see what it does.

James.
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Fenris
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« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2003, 09:58:18 »

Dear Kakkarot

This looks very much like a person trying to burn their bridges wether they realise it fully or not. Remember when you very first started on the forum and you were asking for help with your alternate identities. I explained how we have different 'masks' of our self. Well the online self is one of those masks, and for a person such as yourself this is going to be a large and active part of your identity- your online identity is an excape for you. I think that perhaps the parts of your identity not of the net - but the real world are doing what mind voices do best - self preservation (Why meditation and keeping the mind quiet is so hard). If you look at your ego there is a huge contrast between your online and offline self - Im confident of this. Which is dominant?

Even if I missed the mark in suggesting that this egotistical out burst is due to imbalance with your identity and your reality linked mind fighting for its dominance- I implore you to consider this imbalance for the sake of your own mental health. Many of us excape to an identity that comforts our percieved inadequacies, and the internet is a perfect place to do this, but it can go too far to be healthy. I fear you have crossed that line.

In regards to summoning demons well I know just enough to proabably do it, but more than enough to know that I shouldnt. My mind boggles at the idea of yourself, a person with limited magical knowledge to even seriously consider it. Im sure you proabably hate him, but if before I even read this thread I had to ask a person on this forum somthing regarding the summoning of demons, the first person to come to mind would have been alchimiste. You have NO idea how complex this area is, this isnt just moving energy, and its not for dabbling.

Robert Bruce is an example of a man who without a doubt has great metaphysical ability. Does he have a big ego? Does he shun people who have less ability than himself? Or does he try to better humanity and share his knowledge and skill to help others? Contast this with yourself. I could tell you why your differnt, and if you would like me to explaine I will, but I think it would benefit you to answer this yourself.

I wouldnt say anything at all if I wasnt concerned for you, and you know Im not someone to go jumping on the band wagon attacking people. Im not trying to be a prick, Im genuinly am trying to help you. You really need to make some changes in your life, and there is plenty of help available to help you do it, just take the first step. If burning your bridges here is going to help than do it.

regards
Daivd
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« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2003, 09:58:18 »



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warlockyoshi
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« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2003, 12:48:46 »

quote:
I think summoning a demon, for ANY reason, is unwise and foolish. Nothing good can come of it.

Well, why would summon a demon to permorm an act of good.  The are not Boy Scouts you know.  Demon summonings are required for many meaningful spells.  Besides why would a demon want to waste it's time with your pathetic soul.
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alchimiste
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« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2003, 14:54:03 »

To all in general,

Ok I'll try and be brief and I'll take for granted a certain level of consciousness and experience in all of you as I'm going to try and explain that all magic or scorcery whether white, black, green red or whatever colour that effects anyone or anything other than the proper interior evolution of the operator is infact totally futile and infact a hinderance to any spiritually evolutive path. Forgive me as I'm going to generalise a lot for the sake of easy understanding.

At the beginning a force was set in motion (the creation or big bang) and when this force was set in motion an equal and opposite force was automatically created (lucifer) thus duality occured and exists in all things, everthing has its opposite ( yin yang, black white, good bad, male female,up down, left right), one can't exist without the other. The universe as we know it is DUALITY in a state of balance or unbalance.We are infact ourselves duality.
The natural laws of the universe dictate that this duality will always try to find its balance, its harmony, its status quo where one perfectly balances the other and a certain harmony is acheived.

Whatever we do on whatever level (material, astral, mental, spiritual etc etc) effects the balance of this duality one way or another and the natural laws of the universe try to regain the status quo each time it goes off balance. This to use the eastern terminolgy is Karma, its just the universe re-establishing the natural balance. Karma is not personal it's universal.

Real Evolution on any spiritual path in essence centres around the negation of duality, reconnecting to the the part of us that existed at the time before creation, before duality  ( the birth of the alchimistes stone) and this CAN ONLY take place within oneself and not exterior to oneself.

To exteriorise Magic on any level and of any colour infact is just the manipulation of duality and therefore upsets the balance and creates karma on various levels and thus slows down evolution and the process of creating the stone and acheiving the cosmique marriage.

The secret is to stop ALL magic that effects the duality. Integrate all magic and power and transform it in the Solar plexus (the alchimistes crucible of the body) to find and balance all the opposing forces within the body to create the foundation onwhich to build oneself and thus create the stone (enlightenment, illumination etc etc).

So you see that to invoke demons or do spells  is infact distancing you from the real goal, as they create karma and are futile excercises. One must first find then marry all the opposing forces within oneself to create the utmost INTERIOR harmony and only then can one take the next step which is the negation of ones interior duality.

Evolutory magic comes from inside and is personal to every individual, it comes not from books or magic groups or the internet or any master one cares to mention, it comes from INSIDE!

Although I have trodden the road of magic for many miles I have integrated all I have learned, all my so called powers and transformed them within myself to build the real me. Its through hard experience I have realised that the manipulation of duality is just an illusion holding me back.

I realise everyone has the right to do as they please but I thought my own story might help some of you power hungry budding magiciens understand that in the end its a futile excercise to manipulate duality and by me telling you this I may save a few of you wearing out your shoes on the same road before you realise for yourselves that you've been wasting your time.

Of course you are perfectly entitled to ignore what I've said and invoke what you like and do your little magic recipies if thats what turns you on, after all it's a learning curve.

But let me warn you all that it's just too easy to  get yourself well over your heads and once in the deep end it can take YEARS to get out if you don't sink out of sight that is!


Have fun

Alchimiste
(student of evolution)



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Alchimiste
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Tisha
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« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2003, 15:32:06 »

Kakkarot, you are twenty (20) years old, struggling with immense ego and identity issues, not to mention some arrested development.  For your own sake, please restrict your demon-bashing to pinball machines, Dungeons&Dragons, and video games.  I mean this in the kindest sense . . . you are in no position to be dabbling in the so-called "Dark side."  You probably won't listen, but I have to at least try, I mean, I'm a parent. I wish you well.

Everyone else, Kakkarot is more a danger to himself than anyone else, whether on this world or on the Astral. Odds are the so-called "demon" won't even show.  But Kakkarot will end up fighting his inner demons anyway, and will most certainly be plenty busy.

Alchimiste, thank you for your post. It was a very succinct description of traditional magical work.  I'm a magicworker too, but I'm to the point where I no longer accept "duality" except as a handy way to understand and move through life in this realm (the duality theory, like gravity, works).  Probably because I'm working real hard to transcend duality, and won't accept the idea that world is 50% "positive" and 50% "negative." To me, the universe is simply "100% ALL," and there is actually very little negativity here.  In fact, in my experience most of what "opposes"  is our own little screwed up minds.  Ah, but that's just me . . . I'm not a traditional magician or even Wiccan, but the magic still works for me nonetheless.
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« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2003, 15:36:27 »

Believe me I'll know when I am getting in over my head and so will you.  In fact the whole world will know.  I have summoned demons before, I have made an invisibility potion with the help of Baal for christ-sake!  So do not presume that I am in over my head.  [}:)]
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Tisha
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« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2003, 16:14:36 »

Ummmm . . . to me, Baal is actually a God-Form.  He was the God of - - - was it the Caananites?  Whoo my mind has gone blank, I'll have to look it up when I get home.  I'll give everyone the scoop when I come back.

Anyway, the fact that Christians tried (apparently succesfully) to demonize Baal and other God-Forms doesn't actually make Baal evil, or anything other than what he really is/was to the people who worshipped him in ancient times.  He shows up in the "Demon pantheon," but I just don't buy that he's an "evil demon" or some agent of "Satan."  Working with Baal energy is similar to working with the energy of any other pre-Christian Father God/God of Animals/God of Hunt/God of This/God of That/God of Whatever.  

All the same, I wouldn't try to summon a God-Form unless I were being very, VERY polite.  And I wouldn't feel snubbed if he didn't show; I mean, who am I, after all?

Perhaps this post needs some education on just what meets Demon Criteria.  What is a Demon/Daimon? My understanding is that not all are bad.  I read somewhere that "demon" is simply another word for disincarnate spirit.  Someone please read in, someone with some real knowlege on this. Not me, and not pre/post teens who've grabbed their information from science fiction, D&D, or demon websites, please.
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Tisha
Frank
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« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2003, 16:46:44 »



quote:
Originally posted by James S

..... like seeing a button with a big sign on it saying "Destroy Universe - do not press this button under any circumstance", and pressing it just to see what it does.
James.



Oh, wouldn't it be just SO darned tempting ? Smiley

Would you press it? Myself, okay maybe not now but 20 years ago I sure would have.

Yours,
Frank

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Rob
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« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2003, 16:56:54 »

You have me interested, and worried. Please tell - how, ***precisely***, do you plan to:
a) summon it in the first place, where are you sourcing the appropriate rituals etc from? How many years have you seriously been practicing magick? At least 5 I would assume, if you are planning something like this.
b) banish it when you are done "wrestling" or whatever it is you think will happen?

You cannot kill a demon, I dont think it is even possible, and if so only God himself has the power. And if you manage to summon a higher one (unlikely) - you probably wont even need to annoy it, it'll tear through your etheric body like butter and you'll either end up dead, in prison, a gibbering wreck or something equally horrible. Romero, RB's buddy, seems to be one of the most "powerful" exorcists on the planet and had serious difficuly getting rid of an klipothic (sp?) arch-demon from that poor Pearl lady. As I remember, the battle took about a week, and I am not even sure the operation was a success.

But really, I cant tell if you are being serious or not. So, if you wouldn't mind, maybe you could also furnish us with a story of one of your more "epic" battles? All the details now!

You say you are doing this because of the emptyness that you feel - do you practise regular meditation? I think its more likely that your emptyness stems not from a lack of demons, but rather some other more mundane cause [Smiley] - perhaps it would be better to address this instead of risking your life and those of the people around you (not to mention the spiritual corruption that can devastate your soul and turn you into a thing of evil and hatred, lasting for more than just this lifetime)? For instance, it might be a symptom of a lack of meaningful contact with the (human) world, or proper direction.
On the other hand, if you do go ahead with this, and it possesses you (then or later), its impossible to say what will happen, but I will most likely be bloody and horrible. Remember RB's experiences? If this post is not enough to discourage you, and you really are serious, please e-mail him for his advice...

all the best

Rob
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« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2003, 18:57:54 »

Inguma makes a good point.

the best way to build personal power is to clean up your life.this frees energy locked in negative patterns,giving you more energy to pursue more worthwhile causes,such as fighting injustice and helping society to grow and expand in the way we understand the structure of the universe.with this intent and knowledge, we can ACTUALLY summon, and destroy demons that haunt society.
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alchimiste
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« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2003, 19:26:02 »

"Believe me I'll know when I am getting in over my head and so will you. In fact the whole world will know. I have summoned demons before, I have made an invisibility potion with the help of Baal for christ-sake! So do not presume that I am in over my head. "

Warlockyoshi,
Please don't take my post as a personal attack, it's just that my posts tend to pour salt onto open sores and wind people up a little. For want of a better phrase I'm a bit of a devils advocate. Please forgive me, I did not, nor do not presume anything,

If you want to invoke someone, then invoke yourself, the real you! find the keys that are inside. I actually invoked myself once and the results were astounding.

As for making a blood pact with Baal and his Queen Tanit then that's your choice and your Karma. As you say you'll know when you are in over your head, but remember when you realise, it's usually too late

Happy invokation

Alchimiste
(student of evolution)
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« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2003, 21:10:35 »

To all the people who have responded who are genuinely concerned (fenris, ides, tisha, inguma): thank you.

To all those who are just attacking me: F*ck off.

I'm going to explain, for those who care, for those who are trying to figure out what's going on inside my mind, what's happening.

I've made a few semi-inane, rather obscure references in other threads that something not-so-good is happening in my life. Which is true.

First thing to understand, though, is that God guides me through life. He has put me through many tests and made me learn many lessons.

Each lesson kinda went like this: stuff would start happening in my life. soon enough I would start sensing that God was behind it so I went with them. then the stuff got worse, and worse, and worse on an increasing scale, until I'd be more or less fed up with the excrement that I was going through and would start asking God what the hell was going on. He'd just tell me to trust Him. After all the excrement hit the fan and everything was over, He'd show me the lesson to be learned from it. Took me a long time to actually figure out that I could trust God, that no matter how bad it got (and a few times it got to the point that I'd wanted to just home go to heaven and be done with this life) I could still trust God.

This time though, nothing at all was happening in my life when God just out of the blue told me to trust Him. He's never done that before, so you can imagine that I'm somewhat jumpy right now (though i'm not apologizing for anything i've said in this thread or this post, nor am i using this as an excuse). And now, a lot of stuff is happening, and I can only sense that more stuff is coming. What I'm about to go through is larger than anything I've ever been through to date, so yes Fenris: I am burning bridges because I need to be focused on what's about to happen in my life. (Though I certainly didn't expect (or want) to be doing it so angrily. But then, I also didn't expect that people would start attacking me just because I wanted to try summoning a demon.)

Ides, remember when I mentioned that my progress was going backwards in a way? The evil that is within me is resurfacing. I can sense that there is some reason for this, but I don't know what that reason is. But it has something to do with what's about to happen so I'm trusting God on this.

Nobody here knows the real me, none of my friends know the real me, not even my family knows who I really am. These forums are the place where I've been able to show the most of who I really am, but it seems even here people who are TOO different from the norm are not accepted. And I'm once again becoming restless to find someone, ANYONE, who wouldn't criticize me for being the real me. You couldn't imagine how alone I feel: even with so many people around me, I'm still alone. But nobody cares about that, do they? No of course not.

I guess that means Fat_Turkey's philosophies will be dominant around here now: push around anyone who's different (sorry Fat_Turkey, but you still aren't learning that you shouldn't do that).

But what really pisses me off about the people who are attacking me, is that after all the help and insights I've tried to give other people over the past year, as SOON as I start talking "with bravado" about doing something that others are afraid to do, the people who don't know me very well take it upon themselves to throw me in with the DBZers and start treating me with the same distaste that they treat the DBZ'ers with. And then they say I'M not spiritually advanced?

I've been through a lot of stuff in my life. I've only posted a couple of the problems I've had. And yet, because I've had problems, it is therefore impossible for me to be strong? No. It is because I overcome my problems, with very little help from others, that I am strong. And even the times where I've actually REALLY needed help and asked for it, the people I asked turned from me. I can't afford to wallow in weakness because no one will help me. Regarding the personalities: I didn't NEED help then, I posted that to try and hopefully gain some better insight into what happened. And though others tried to help me (and I still thank you for it), I still had to find the real answers on my own.

Thank you Tisha. I define a demon as a fallen angel. Discarnate spirits are not demons, as far as I'm concerned.

Inguma: I don't know *precisely* how: I do things by feel. And I remember the thread about Romero and Pearl.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to provide any details of anything that's happened to me before because those who already disbelieve me won't believe me anyway (in fact, they'll probably continue throwing mud from their pigpens) and it's really not going to help me or anyone else anyway.

I understand that what I'm going to try and do is probably stupid, I'll know when I'm through. But I'm not going to live my life measuring my growth by looking at my toes: I'm going to continue reaching for the skies even when others sucker punch me for doing so.

May God be with you. Good bye.

~kakkarot
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Tisha
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« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2003, 00:05:17 »

Kakkarot, I think it might be the Understatement of the Year that now is probably a bad time to go summoning demons.  I'm sorry that you're having a hard time . . . although earlier you suggested you were bored.  But if you are having a hard time on the earthly plane, in accordance with the First Law of Hermetics, there's some major juju going on with you on the Astral planes already.  You don't need to call on some Astral Trouble so that your Astral life will mirror your earthly one.  BECAUSE IT ALREADY DOES.  
 
I tried the "demon link" to see what it said but the site was down.  Some of you out there won't care, or might balk at what I have to say, but I had to do some research on Baal and here it is:

Baal simply a Semetic word that means "Lord."  "Baalat" is the feminine equivalent, i.e., Goddess.  Every god was a Baal, so if one says he is "working with Baal" you might be so impertinent to ask, "which one?"  Baal-Berith?  Baal-Gad?  Baal Hadad?  Baal-Hammon? Baal-Peor?  Baal-Zebub?  The Irish Bel?  The Scandinavian Balder?  

It is thought by some that the word is derived from the Sanskrit "Bala," which means sacrificial offering.  Old Testament Jews worshipped many Baalim as the consorts of their Goddess, before the One God concept took over.  

Christians sought to demonize the Baalim, because Biblical writers denounced all the Baalim indiscriminately as devils.  I think there is a famous image of Baal that looks rather goat-like.  This is is probably Baal-Gad, the Goat Lord, a Semetic name for the god Pan, worshipped at the source of the Jordan river.  Remember how important goats and sheep were to the livelihoods of the Semetic people. Some Christians will point to this image and call it Satan.  But they don't know their ancient history!

[?] So what's my point?  It rather bugs me that some might try to do "battle" with the Old Gods of long-gone societies - - or even engage them in meaninful ways AT ALL, since these gods are not of our time. Pick a demon, and I'll bet it's a marginalized God or Angel that the Christian religion tried to discredit in favor of its own God and Angels.  In fact, I'm sure there are Semetic people in their own versions of Astral Afterlife and they're still worshipping their Baals and Baalats.  We should just let them be!  All the Gods are ONE anyway.

(This is not to say I bear any ill will toward the ceremonial magicians or pagans I know, who like to worship and call upon the Old Gods.  Most of them are harmless because, for the most part, they are well-meaning, but woefully ineffective at invoking, and their ceremonies are more akin to celebrations of the Old Gods' qualities or powers, which is fine.  I've never met a pagan or ceremonial magician who could actually invoke a real God, seriously. But I must say they all throw GREAT parties and I love them dearly. [Smiley])

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« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2003, 01:04:18 »

quote:
Originally posted by timeless



It is fine to hate me...just don't hate yourself enough to do what you are planning.  Favours are not always wrapped in pretty feel good packages.  Friends do not always agree.  If my friends always agreed with me I would think they were "yes friends".  I would prefer genuine friends.



The times in my life where I learned the most from another person was often when they were being no holds barred brutally honest with me.  It always stung at first and I'd react in anger because I was hurt, but it made me think.  There are others who were nice and wanted to be good friends so who never stood up to me or told me what an butt I was being.. that didnt do a thing for me.

That type of learning isn't for all, but I've always and still do feel gratitude to people who "told me like it is".  After the ego heals often the advice is solid.

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« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2003, 02:23:03 »


 
quote:
To all the people who have responded who are genuinely concerned (fenris, ides, tisha, inguma): thank you.

To all those who are just attacking me: F*ck off.


 Dear kakkarot,

  Sorry you feel that this was an attack. That certainly was not my motive although, I said I felt I had to be blunt. You don't know me or care about my words but I, however, like others here, care enough about you to respond.

  If you are feeling a darkness within then this is more likely the you are being called to do some inner work--maybe for a time with a good trusted experienced therapist & body worker. There is no way to avoid the inner work & it is not a one time deal either. It is many layers like an onion peeled off one at a time. So  very often we try to neglect it or figure we can do a spiritual by-pass to avoid it but it comes back to bite you one way or another.

   A prayer to try in meditation is--Show me, what I need to heal....show me what I need to let go of to become whole. Then hold tight & be prepared to work with everything the Universe/God shows you...your issues, your shadow, your family wounds, your pride, your fears,your anger, your dreams, your illusions ask it to be gentle. You don't need to summon an external demon. Heal yourself & bring the Luminous Being within you forth.

   May you be blessed, celeste
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kakkarot
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« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2003, 21:38:12 »

just wait and see [|)].

http://www.deliriumsrealm.com

amazing list and descriptions of demons, for those who wish to look into it.

i'm thinking of trying my hand at summoning sometime soon, and i'd like for it to be a demon [}:)] because i hate demons [}:)]. [Cheesy] i just hope it works [|)].

~kakkarot
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