FORUM INTRUSION

[Lighthouse]

methinks paranoia runs deep.


Do you realize that something like 48% of the people who work in the United states work for the government?  This means about half the people you know work for some branch of the government.  I live in the DC area and I think some people need a reality check.  Most people are working for the government because they are honest, intelligent people who have no interest in violating other peoples privacy or who have interest in collecting information about peoples private matters...

It's no big secret that many people believe in and have even seen UFO's and had other paranormal experiences... hardly a reason for the government to "eavesdrop" in these forums.  I was under the impression that these forums were open to all for mutual sharing and communication.  If you have some "Top Secret" information that you are posting on the internet, then you need to do a reality check.

--Kerri

[James S]

If you were to be able to trace my work IP address from this site there'd then be evidence that people in the automotive / IT industry are scanning the forum.

Could it be, as Lighthouse pointed out, that these "government watchers" might simply be peopple who just work in government offices surfing the web at lunchtime or when their bored?

The plot thickens!

See, we have a slightly differnt way of dealing with surveilence people here in australia -

1) Find the surveilence team. They're usually pretty easy to spot coz they're usually a little lazy about it.
2) Go up to them and give them a beer.
3) Because you've just given them a bear, then you're no longer considered suspicious - they pack up & go home.
Easy []

[]
James.

[Ceriel N]

Could be, but that would be boring. I'll hereby proceed with claiming that Avalon is actually working with the X-Files, that the series is based on reality, and that we'll all be abducted and brainwashed now. I'll also refrain from providing a single bit of evidence for my theory.

[no_leaf_clover]

Just because some people use government computers for casual surfing doesn't mean all people working for the government do. Maybe most people are just surfing around from a government job, but the government could just as easily use this forum to create records on individials if they could find out who we are, and I don't suppose that would be too hard for them. This is what makes conspiracy theories so much fun [] Are they doing it? There's not much evidence besides some mysterious government programs.. but that's exactly what they want: no proof! What do you believe? Fun fun!

[Tolvor]

quote:Originally posted by no_leaf_clover

Just because some people use government computers for casual surfing doesn't mean all people working for the government do. Maybe most people are just surfing around from a government job, but the government could just as easily use this forum to create records on individials if they could find out who we are, and I don't suppose that would be too hard for them.

Okaaaay...  and how exactly are government agents going to find out who we are?  I know of four ways it could be done, maybe five, none of them feasible.  Unreasonable paranoia can be so fun.

1)  Get the astralpulse weblogs of ip addresses from RB himself (not likely for obvious reasons)
2)  Get the weblogs of ip addresses from whoever hosts astrapulse.com (I'm feeling too tired to look it up).  This actually is possible, but they would first go to the press.  Remember what happened when Comcast said 'NO' to the govt, and AOL said 'YES' (and turned over pedophiles records).  Both were very public matters and not done lightly.
3)  Get the cooperation of the major ISPs to turn over their IP logs of all users and parse it for people who happen to go to astralpulse.com (extremely unlikely).  There is no way this could stay secret.  Can you say major uproar from the general public and civil libertarians.
4)  Do something sneaky with the OS or the browser to monitor peoples activities on the internet and report it directly to the government.  This doesn't seem to be happening as I've got a packet sniffer and well configured hardware and software firewalls, and nothing has been flagged as going to a government agency (*.gov) and there is no suspicious data leaving my computer.
5)  Use the member profiles that we created when we signed up here.  The problem is that very few people are entering their first and last names in their profile making it somewhat difficult for the government to locate people based on that.

[no_leaf_clover]

quote:5) Use the member profiles that we created when we signed up here. The problem is that very few people are entering their first and last names in their profile making it somewhat difficult for the government to locate people based on that.

Well, after looking at my own profile...... [xx(]

[bluelite]

Ok folks I guess my original psychic observations were fairly correct.

I am not however saying that this forum is in any danger of sorts or that the ones monitoring wish it harm, but it is always good for the participating members to become more familiar with there environment.

[Avalon]

You guys are so funny. I wish I worked for the X-Files. That would be pretty damned cool.  If you check MY profile, my job description is listed there.

I mostly surf from home but I do travel a lot and have been given a laptop to travel with and yes, I do surf the net on it while sitting bored in my hotel room.  Sometimes, I surf at work, usually during lunchtime but since I have 2 laptop computers and 2 desktop computers, at least one of two of them might be sitting idle on a website at anytime during the day.  The other 2 are used for classified material so there is no internet connection.  

The traffic coming from government computers may or may not be me, I have no idea.  I'm just offering another explanation of the "monitoring" theory.  I really do not know if the government monitors websites that discuss the type of material that is discussed here.    

Holy Reality - I am a member of a task force created under the Patriot Act by Ashcroft.  I actually am employed by my local sheriff's department.  I search computers (any storage media) for evidence of crime.  The reason the computer lab task forces were started was due to the events that occured on 9/11.  There were numerous computers owned by Al Quaeda members that needed to be examined for evidence of crime or consipiracy against the government.  However, at this time, a large percentage of our work involves those crimes dealing in child pornography.

Just let me pose a question, do you really think the government would send agents and spies to search website's such as this that promoted the fact they were working for the government?  Probably not.  They'd do it covertly.[]

[bluelite]

No ones pointing fingers at anyone in particular but the ones doing the real monitoring and surveying of  this site are still very active and know who they.  There is no need for a witch hunt of any kind by other members.

[Dark Knight]

I hate conspiracy theories, which is why my potential government situation absolutely galls me.

After talking to Carol Rutz (one of the former child experimental subjects the CIA worked on...not conspiracy theory, fact, it was national news some years ago), the one thing I've learned is that people in power stick together. A conspiracy is not necessary for a network to exist and be employed. Powerful people stick together and help each other out and stay out of the details or the politics.

I keep hearing the object centering on the person. In my case, I don't believe the object is the person at all. The object is control in some form. If you wanted to turn a person into an automaton on command, into an assassin, whatever, how would you do it? You take a healthy normal person, subject them to various situations, see what makes them break, what makes them strong, record the results. Doesn't mean the experimental subject will be used as a spy, assassin, whatever, just experimental information gathering. It could happen to anyone.

I highly doubt George Bush knows anything about me, or UFOs, or abductees...I doubt there is enough brainpower there to deal with such a situation. I think the government is large, abuse among the powerful is blatant, and any psycho can slip through the cracks and create the proper structure to sustain him/her.

From what I'm reading from the Remote Viewing books I have (If McMoneagle, Buchanan, and Morehouse are to be believed), the intelligence community is pretty paranoid itself, God only knows what's going through their heads. The state of the world as we see it in the news and what "intelligence" (use that term loosely) knows are two entirely different things. Everything is a half truth, and sometimes their half truths slip up and some truth comes out (well, I guess you can't keep track of every lie you tell, especially if you can't remember which portion is lie and which is truth).

[Avalon]

Witch hunts? [}:)]  I thought we were all here for the same purpose...  An open forum to discuss various subjects relating to the paranormal, metaphysics, religion, philosopy and so on and so forth. []

If I felt concerned by admitting I work for the governement, or even worse, law enforcement.  I wouldn't have admitted it in the first place.  []

On the other hand, if anyone here feels threatened by my presence, they always have the option to ignore my posts.  I've certanily not been "placed" here to check on illegal activities perpetrated by other members here (it'd be a boring job, I think).  Nor do I have the inclination to police this website and turn people in who might be involved in conspiracy against the government, illegal drug usage, anarchy, hacking or bomb making.

Like your post Dark Knight.  Does anyone know of a large government organization that has not been corrupt in one way or another?

[Dark Knight]

Avalon...

Nothing personal but I've been through serious crap...you don't bother me, you don't even rank as a nusance.

Yeah you're right, I don't know of too many governments that are completely squeaky clean...that's why not everything is a damn conspiracy. Sometimes it's just the rules of lucky cretins in power.

[xander]

SIES! SPIES! SPIES! Like some sad little National Lampoons skit. People spy on each other, who cares, live yer life.

I would say most everyone here is of little consequence to any SPY the govt sends. 99% of the info they gain is pretty much garbage anyway. We are the insignifigant masses and the govt has no way of sifting through all the info they gather. If govt incompetency is as severe at teh top as it is at the bottom then we have little to worry about. The govt reacts out of fear like a frightened animal, barking at shadows and concerned with "safety" (god I HATE that buzzword).

Everyone is more powerful than they realize and that's what scares the govt, they can easily control the drooling zombie masses. The individual when they encounter him/her is the real threat. I'm still choosing to be an individual, this is one lifetime of many. They want my mind, body, suffering...Fine, but they shall never have my soul for my soul is all powerful and eternal.

Xander

[Kerrblur]

I'm sure some of you have read this or even seen it on Discovery Channel or something.  The government are worried about the people who are spiritually gifted in someway or another, and are able to resist what there about to do.  If its not already happening now, its gonna be happening within a year to 5 years.  You know how much information they got off people like Robert Monroe or Uri Geller?  I believe Uri Geller Still works with the government unless he's not with them anymore.

 Telepathy and clairvoyance have been a tool for the US government since the middle of the Cold War.  lol they wouldnt just up and drop the case.  They've come to discover alot of things, and its going to effect us all i believe.  Except for the people like us who are already in tune with ourselves, they cannot control, and that concerns them.  I dunno    I read alot on the internet about it, regarded it as false untill I saw it on Discovery Channel and Science Channel on two different occasions(SP?).

[holy reality]

quote:Originally posted by Kerrblur

I'm sure some of you have read this or even seen it on Discovery Channel or something.  The government are worried about the people who are spiritually gifted in someway or another, and are able to resist what there about to do.  If its not already happening now, its gonna be happening within a year to 5 years.  You know how much information they got off people like Robert Monroe or Uri Geller?  I believe Uri Geller Still works with the government unless he's not with them anymore.

 Telepathy and clairvoyance have been a tool for the US government since the middle of the Cold War.  lol they wouldnt just up and drop the case.  They've come to discover alot of things, and its going to effect us all i believe.  Except for the people like us who are already in tune with ourselves, they cannot control, and that concerns them.  I dunno    I read alot on the internet about it, regarded it as false untill I saw it on Discovery Channel and Science Channel on two different occasions(SP?).

//

Could you elaborate on what it is you think they are going to do?

And I was just remembering.... mind control (mass mind control) has been documented as possible, and there are devices sold that are supposed to do so... I think Russia bought a lot of them a while ago.... I'm not sure where I read this I think perhaps educate-yourself.org or .com .... it was quite disturbing though.

"
Holy Reality - I am a member of a task force created under the Patriot Act by Ashcroft. I actually am employed by my local sheriff's department. I search computers (any storage media) for evidence of crime. The reason the computer lab task forces were started was due to the events that occured on 9/11. There were numerous computers owned by Al Quaeda members that needed to be examined for evidence of crime or consipiracy against the government. However, at this time, a large percentage of our work involves those crimes dealing in child pornography.

Just let me pose a question, do you really think the government would send agents and spies to search website's such as this that promoted the fact they were working for the government? Probably not. They'd do it covertly.
"

So do you agree with what the Patriot Act does to our constitutional rights and how it's being widely abused? One guy that made meth was charged with making "chemical weapons" once.... all sorts of bovine excrement abuse everywhere imaginable, the worst probably being guantanamo bay and I just pray that they never sneak the right to detain CITIZENS in there... they tried to do so with partiot II but someone leaked it to congress and they shot it down... but... you know they'll keep trying...

In fact I'm not sure if Patriot II actually WAS shot down come to think of it...? Most of it was put into the "Liberty" act or something like that....

gahhh... to repeat myself again:

don't vote Bush if you value freedom at all.

and it's not that hard to hack an IP out of a forum if you're a government agent, neither is it hard to force that ISP to release details, or hack those details. What are they going to do about it, take on the government? Yeah right....

also it's been my experience that either the government doesn't care about drug use or they don't have the intelligence capablities to crack down on it via the internet (despite much provisions really slaying first time offenders in much new legislation out there) becuase go to just about any mature forum and people are always openly saying things like "yeah i bought a few ounces of prime weed that i'm gonna smoke tomorrow" and things like that... and well... those people are still around.

[Avalon]

Holy Reality - I agree with some of the Patriot Act.  Just like I only agree with some of the laws that I've been vowed to uphold.  I worked in a county jail for 4 years and saw women in jail for stealing food to feed their families.  Although I agree that theft is and should be a crime, I don't think jail is the answer for that woman.  Same with drug crimes.  However, I doubt rehabilitation as well.  I have no answers to the worlds problems, if I did, I would be out there trying to fix the problems not putting people in jail for them.

To the best of my knowledge, and the way I've been trained by the government to the job I do right now, we cannot ask ISP's for information without a search warrant.  Without probable cause of a crime, we cannot get a search warrant.  That determination is made by a judge.  The same criteria hold true for the investigators and agents I work with.  Are there people in the government who can get that information?  Probably.  I do not know so I can only guess.  However, I don't work as a spy or in espionage of any kind.  Hackers have gotten into government computers, why couldn't the government get into personal computers at your home? The question is why would they want to?  

I'm not sure how much the government is involved in remote viewing and seeking out people who are gifted.  I believe they have been involved because of articles I've read (not put forth by the government), but I don't have any proof of it and certainly don't know to what extent at this time.

Just because I work for the government does not mean I think it is problem free.  I have the same feelings about Bush.  How many people always agreed with upper management in their jobs anyway?

[Ceriel N]

Please, Avalon, call it cracking and not hacking. There's a great deal of law-abiding white hat hackers out there that simply pop a vein when they're associated with common criminals. =/
That, or at least put "black hat" in front of it.
Sorry if I seems like I'm making a chicken out of a feather, but please do try to see it from my point of view. I take it you are not very fond of witch hunts, and the hacking community isn't either. Regardless of intention, the moment one is caught for the slightest oversight, say a kid trying to impress his friends and running a canned exploit against a comercial website, he's given a completely improportional sentence for it and fines to match. His intention was not to harm, but to show off. What he needs is guidance and not punishment. Certainly, the industry has got SCADAs with old versions of NT running critically important functions to society. Same skritpkiddiot could have targeted that machine, but didn't. Also, are not these companies responsible for making sure their systems are hardened?
On the other side of the situation, the hardcore black hat that eats assembler code for lunch; he's already planted a home made rootkit on said internet computers you use. Your only way to keep him away from your classified data is to physically sever the connection between the nets. And you're not going to catch him either once you notice what he's doing. =/
You probably know about the actual incident more than I do. How many years was it that the FBI had been spied on again?

And sorry about the rant too. The situation just pisses me off.

[holy reality]

"To the best of my knowledge, and the way I've been trained by the government to the job I do right now, we cannot ask ISP's for information without a search warrant. Without probable cause of a crime, we cannot get a search warrant. That determination is made by a judge. The same criteria hold true for the investigators and agents I work with. Are there people in the government who can get that information? Probably. I do not know so I can only guess. However, I don't work as a spy or in espionage of any kind. Hackers have gotten into government computers, why couldn't the government get into personal computers at your home? The question is why would they want to?"

The patriot act states that you do not need a search warrant to monitor someone's emails, internet activites, library activites, and probably other activities that I can't remember.
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=12126&c=207
http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11813&c=207#FileAttach


Why wouldn't they want to if they can monitor anyone they want?

[Avalon]

Ceriel, my first two cases were computer intrusion cases.  My forte is UNIX so I imagine a majority of my cases will be computer intrusions.  It's not everyday I get to chat with someone who cracks or hacks or intrudes.  Sorry for the confusion in terms.

If you want to discuss the situation further, let's PM so this thread isn't hi-jacked any further than it already has been.[^]

I imagine we could have some interesting conversation.

[volcomstone]

what if a skilled mystic where to walk into the pentagon during an obe?

what if teleportation and levitiation was achievable by any human?

seems like potential threats to national security,

ever noticed how the pentagon is a pentagram? pretty superstitous for a government that claims that such powers are impossible,

how hard would it be for the american government to train psi-talents for the purpose of espionage and mind-control? not very

achieving OBE is ultimate freedom, if the government knew that no walls could ever contain the human spirit, how would that affect the penal system? I for one believe that if jails where to give new-age spiritual training to incarcerated felons, the ability for themselves to become active members of society would increase, also, if a prisoner was told they could leave the jail anytime they want, how would that affect the us economy?

what about any business? how could capitalism survive if we can read the thoughts of greedy rich men?[?]

what if such exotic abilities like invisibility and shape-shifting are possible? what if EVERYTHING was possible,? how could the government ever truly control a population that knows they are capable of changing the world? how could they keep control of the millions who take for granted the "everyday" and they suddenly understand the "eternal"?[?]

anyhow odds are Ill have quite the amount of psy-attacks tonight, unless of course Im just paranoid

[Tolvor]

Let me try simplfing things here.  There is a simple test that could easily prove government interest.

I don't think the NSA takes job applications (they recruit), ditto the FBI, but a case is for someone (not me) to walk into the Pentagon (in real life, not OBE), to the visitors desk, and ask to fill in a job application and list your primary qualifications as your various psychic abilities.  Give a valid address and phone number.  Most likely you'd get either blown off as a crank, or get some kind of low level, casual test.  Either way it would show whether or not the government is interested in AP/OBE abilities.

Why not me?  Am I voluntaring someone else to bell the cat (or act as a stupid mine-detector)?  I'm not psychic, yet.  I'd like to be.  I've gotten some interesting effects, but I don't think the govt is interested in kinda-sorta-maybe psychic.  If I was I'd give it a try.  My profession, Information Technology (Programming), is dying in the US.  A nice safe job at the Petagon sounds nice.  I actually would consider doing it if I could solidly prove it without looking stupid.

I don't see why the government would hire/coerce regular citizens for.  They already have barracks full of young recruits who have signed binding contracts for a long time with the government.  The government can poke, prod, test, yell at, force teach, threaten, punish, reward, and send those soldiers however they like (AS LONG as it falls within the officers code of conduct manual).  The government has a lousy track record in keeping regular US citizens quiet, but they have a GREAT track record in making sure soldiers stay very very quiet (how many people who works at Area 51 can you discover?)  The government would have no problem getting a soldier to fill out a vague psychic appitude test.  If the soldier shows potiential, I can see all sorts of ways the governement could transfer that soldier to some special program, AND STILL keep that soldier happy (and as tightlipped) as a clam.  So why bother with the cloak and dagger with hunting psychics on the internet?

[Kerrblur]

I'm not gonna say too much about it, but I cant stress you enough how serious I am about the government making/training/studying/using  gifts in our country.  Robert Monroe in the 1980's was working with the government and teaching there that holosync and focua 10!  You know what Uri Geller did?  he helped them with TK, telepathy, f***ing bending spoons, now lol heh imagine a soldier, bending the enemies guns!? lol
lol had to get silly there for a sec......   now, i test one of you to call the government and say your psychic, and how you want to help them (depending on who you got ahold of), they will grab you faster than you can blink for good reason or bad, prolly bad.  These next few years are going to suck, wether you accept what I say or not.  It is true.  And the supposive government working people on here dont even know who there working for.  Practice any and all 3rd eye development excersizes, cause thatll be all you need for resisting what there going to do... i'll post a reply for 'Holy Reality' l8r

[volcomstone]

Ive heard of robert monroe, he has found diamonds gold, Nuclear grade weapons material, all from remote viewing,

I just watched amovie called mindstorm, it was very much B

but wasn't all that bad considering, anyhow, Im sure even pres bush has some physic gifts, if he didn't he prolly wouldn't have gotten so far

[jc84corvette]

Bump! Lets discuss this even more.

[kiauma]

I'm with Tolver.  You can collect all the data in the world, but someone, somewhere, has to finally actually look at the data.  Sure, you can use search algorithms and filters, but unless we start discussing what form of Govmnt we are going to put in place after the revolution, or where we are stockpiling our nuclear weapons, the Govmnt just has bigger fish to fry.

Also this is a free and open to the public forum.  If any covert operation is gonna aprehend us all overnight, they're gonna have to arrest thousands to keep it quiet.

Sure, people are watching.  Some perverts like to watch people go to the bathroom too - whatever that gets them.