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Nay

Hehehehe..wow, I hope you feel better.[^]

This just gave me a idea! Perhaps we should have a Venting Forum  I think it would help people get their frustrations out..  

Nay

Anonymous

H.Q., (hope you don't mind the abbreviation- I'm a bit lazy at the moment) I completely understand what you are saying and I agree with you. There should be no insult to anyone for what they believe. There should only be questions and facts presented. And it should be presented in a non-hostile fashion. Should someone be offended by the non-hostile asking of a question or presentation of facts, then that's their problem. That's all I am going to say. The flaming and hostility is going to happen no matter what anyone does, so my best advice to you is, if someone does it, then the only thing you can really do is ignore it, unless you feel like wasting energy in a long, boring, hostile, angry argument with that person.

Something that is dangerous to us is sometimes a result of our own misconceptions or ignorance about it. Not always, but sometimes. Knowing fire is hot, for example, doesn't make it any less dangerous to us, but the knowledge that it is hot is helpful in that we learn to deal with it safely.

Anyway, I too wish that insults would stop. If someone insults me, I do not insult them back. I simply observe their response and ask them more about it, calmly and in a friendly way.

Anonymous

Nay, perhaps you are right. Maybe gathering all this negativity into one area will enable us to deal with it better (as long as we are dealing with it right). It will also help the other areas serve their purpose better.

Perhaps there should be a post on how to deal with this kind of stuff. We see the problem, now we must find the solution.

atalanta

I haven't read the post you are talking about but I totally agree with you that we should always respect other people's beliefs.  

For example, I have some differing views to some people here but I try to respect other people's views.  However, I am not really posting about that.  I wanted to reply to something you said about counsellors.  

I can understand why you may think a counsellor who isn't trained by the 'establishment' is probably a better one than one who has.  I have a background in psychology both within and outside the establishment.  I agree that there is something missing in the psychology that is taught these days at universities, however, things are changing and some departments are slowly becoming more aware of this.  

However, I think it is dangerous to say that science and the knowledge it brings has no value.  It has immense value however, it may be limited.  Given time and effort it will expand to include some of the experience often described in these posts.  Experience is important but so is knowledge.  I would hope that if a person needs a therapist they will seek the assistance of some who is both experienced and knowledgeable.  What is the alternative, see someone who has experienced a lot but has a childlike explanation or see someone who has read it all but has no internal experience of what is going on?

Let me show you an example.

Lets say you have a client that comes to see you.  They complain of anxiety and depression.  They go to sleep and in the morning they wake up to find that a couple of days have gone by with no memory of any events during that time.  Their furniture has been rearranged.

Without knowledge or experience which would you select...

a) Alien abduction.
b) poltergeist.
c) some form of sleep walking.
d) cheeky spirits playing tricks.
e) dissociative disorder
f) something I have not thought of.  Other.
g) all of the above.

Its knowledge and the experience which will make you a good therapist in the end, not one or the other.

Just my opinion.  Sorry for invading your thread, now please continue the debate.[;)]


Nagual

I agree too.

Personaly, first, I try to understand the subject of the post.
If I don't understand, I just keep quiet and read.
If (I think) I know a few things, I will read and give some more or less useful opinions/thoughts/leads/clues/info...
If I don't agree, and am able to offer other views, I will try a bit...
If I don't agree and see no openings (going nowhere), I will just ignore this thread from now on.

I think I never "attacked" anyone personaly, but I have a tendency to go after people who "attack" other members, or proclaim that they know everything and the rest of humanity are just brainless monkeys. [|)]

One of the problem I see on this forum (and I guess most forums) is that there are (too) many "trolls" who abuse people's open-mindness/kindness for "fun".

Another problem is that most internet communication tools are faceless/noiseless/emotionless.  It's is very difficult to know what the other guy is thinking when he says what he says.  Smiles ([:D][B)][xx(][:(!][:O][|)][:(]) helps a bit, but still...  Also, some people would never say some of the things they say if they had a face to face conversation.
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

harlequin_star

s'okay, i understand what you were saying about counsellors' certification, and im not telling anyone to go find ant old psychologist. .im sayin that most of 'em just learn it by the book or class without any hands on experience, and that just because you're went to harvard or yale doesnt make you a good psychologist, although, yes, they should probably have some credentials of some sort whether clients or otherwise if they want people to take em seriously.
   Yeah, i guess i did totally spout off. .but i couldnt just sit by an see stuff like that. Believe me, i know what its like to be bullied. .especially when you're a psychic/telepathic/empathic/anything out of the ordinary groove. For some reason people are bullied horribly because its 'not normal' which is half the reason i got so riled up, cuz i'm sure there are people in these forums who've had that happen to them an' they're just looking for a place where they can be accepted.

atalanta

I knew you were venting which is fine by me cause I intend to do some of it myself ocassionally.  I just wanted to balance it a little though because I know there will be people here who have psych problems and who are looking for therapists.

As for bullying, I was constantly bullied at school for most of the years that I was there.  I don't think I have or ever will fully recover from it despite the fact that I have gone through counselling for it.  Bullying denies your right to BE.  It robs the person of a sense of safety, happiness, that feeling of being an okay person.  Because of the bullying I received, I still find it hard to be in social situations because I experience high levels of anxiety, etc.  

I think it is a horrendous way for any individual to act especially considering that we like to consider ourselves as responsible adults.  Personally, I think bullies are mostly people who have little insight or creative ability to deal with their own frustrations or variability in the environment/other people.  I have said it before on another board, if you don't think you have anything positive to say, that is something enlightening or respectful, then say nothing.  No one is forcing you to respond to posts.  Eventhough this is the net, the people here are real with real histories, pain, feelings, etc.  What you say may make the difference between someone having a good day or bad day but it may also make the difference between someone suiciding or holding on one more day.  You don't know.

Hope you are feeling better now that you have vented.[:)]

Sam

Yep I agree some people seem to take offense when none has been intended, and then discussions get diverted into pointless arguments of unnecessary attacks and coutermeasures.

Its quite a complex issue, but personally I think a main cause of this trend (and I'm guilty of this myself) is making assumptions about the other person then basing half an argument on that assumption.  I've decided after consideration on the issue of bullying that it may be a bad idea to make assumptions about people then base an argument on the assumption, because if my assumption is wrong the other person feels hurt.

A good way to respond to someone like me making assumptions is to say hey, that hurts that you take me this way, why did you get that impression of what I was saying.  That way I'll stop and think oops, I was a bit hasty there, well, this is what you said that caused me to get that impression.  Then you stop and maybe think "gee, maybe next time I should express my views more clearly".

I'm trying, ok.

Jenadots

Agreed.  We should not get nasty with each other.  I try not to.

Jenadots

Didn't get to finish my thoughts above.  As said, I try not to engage in accusations and be tolerant of the views and beliefs I find here.  

But I do think we need to be thinking and sensing through some of the things presented to us as facts. An open mind doesn't mean an empty one.  After all, B.S. is B.S. and I have read more than a few posts of people claiming to have superior "powers" and all sorts of nonsense.  I usually just go to another topic but sometimes do respond to disagree.

As to Mayatnik, I read through some of it and no longer bother -- seems too much like a cult to me.  

Fact is, anyone looking for followers or advocates of their overwhelming powers or insights has definitely come to the wrong place.  As you may have noticed, they get scoffed at in all sorts of ways by some very independent thinkers.

I like to think we are just all on the path together -- some ahead, some behind, and some taking detours or side trips.  That is what makes this forum so appealing and, sometimes, appalling.

I haven't found another forum with so much variety of ideas and topics, and people from all over the world.

jason

I definately agree about not being 'arseholes' ('scuse my french) w/eachother.I've noticed that this forum never used to be as bad as it is now,I still like this forum more than any other.

and I've also learned the importance of respecting belief systems[:)]

so...have a nice day people,and don't be a jerk[:(!][;)]
The musical conciousness is mind beneath the sun.

Kazbadan

Such acusations (to Mayatnik)are imature if they are just mere atacks without sense. Bur in other hand, if they are atacks with the intention to show scientific and/or logical proofs arguing against such topics,we need to act i a different way.

Evidence and logical thought it´s important to avoid falling in the pit traps of the mind. We cannot accept everything just because we listen or readed something about that.

If someone accuses, for instance, Maya topics but such accusation it´s made with proofs and logical thoughts, it would be healthy to give a response in the same way, with possible counter-proofs and logical thoughts too. I speak in Mayatnik but i don´t undestand what that topic is. For many times i ask to people to explain and resume that topic but no one as done yet. It´s very big (30 pages) and i  have no time for reading.

Someone suggested me to read a "resume" or something, but the resume it´s another big page that does not say in few lines (10?) what the topic is about.

(i´m not attacking Maya Topic, just saying that at the moment still have no idea what that is about- only know that it´s something related with  "pendulum")
I love you!

harlequin_star

yup. .it's about the use of pendulums and communication. I'm noty all all suggesting that i believe EVERYTHING i read. .and you're right, you shouldnt believe everything you read, especially on the internet, but you should at least respect it, even if you don't agree. Mabe Mayatnik DOES have a cult, mabe he IS trying to get people into joining it. .but mabe hes not, and if people were going to accuse him, they should do it privately and not for all to see because then you get people banded together just to rip people about what they believe and that makes people want to leave the forum. . which is a sad thing because the forum is suppose to be an open space for thought, ideas, and learning.

harlequin_star

i'm not sure where this post should go, but i'm writin it anyways.
i cannot believe some of the accusations going around in these forums! arent these people here suppose to be searching for experience and guiding or whatever. Aren't WE suppose to read posts with an open mind even if we dont agree. Some of these people on this site. .alls they do is personally attack others just because they don't agree!!!!
I'm,. . im almost speechless, its incredible.
I encourage anyone to go 'n read Mayatniks post in prophecy and communication. .i got pretty far in reading it, but after reading all these accusations against his character i couldnt read anymore. This is insane, and its happening more 'n more frequently whether its against anyone here or elsewhere.
Don't psychics and spiritual people go through ENOUGH without having to be even MORE ridiculed by thier OWN community!!!!!!!!???????
We're suppose to be the 'open minded' and 'understanding' peoples, right. .but there are people just as nasty. .in fact even MORE nasty than anyone else here, in these forums!
HEY! you peeps who're talkin trash about Mayatnik or ANYONE else--you  listen; YOU BEST SIT BACK AND LOOK AT YOUR OWN SELF BEFORE ACCUSING SOMEONE ELSE, ya'll talk about having guide and following intuition or whatever, but you must not be listenin very well, or your're hearing what you wanna hear.
oh! an' just cuz ya ain't certified don't mean you cant be a counselor. .in FACT most certified counselors dont know much cuz they're just book learned. i know I"D rather have someone whos learned from experience.
   If we let people fill our heads with paranoia then they'll be a mass hysteria and people with origional thought'll be outcast, just like they are in society NOW. Aren't we all suppose to be the ones WHO EMBRACE DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????
.................................
alright, i've said my bit. and if anyones got anythin to say against THAT feel free to pm me or anythin like that, in fact. .what're your names Timeless or Celeste or whatever your names are,.... yeah, i WANT you to come talk to me, i wanna know HOW some of you peoples can even have the MINDSET to do some of these things, just WHY you peoples need to harrass others.
. .
to all them other peeps who read posts with the willingness to learn and accept differece, live by your intuition and don't let someone else sway your beliefs. . you guys are the good 'uns, don't loose your footing.