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Astralzombie

#175

What has this got to do with what I have been saying about Consciousness, beginnings, Higher Self.

Sophism, being distracted by Egocentric constructs a discussion does not mak
e.

Please read the following in case you missed it the first time:

Will, as much as we have all communicated with each other on this thread, it never gets to deviate from the your main focus. Mostly because you won't let it. That's cool, I understand the thread rules and all. But I understand a little bit about people too.

People like to discuss things...sometimes serious stuff and other times not. Many of us are fascinated by the same things but the problem is that we are not all completely serious about the same things. So topics on a thread can tend to wander and eventually evolve into a new beast. That's alright if your just fascinated with the topic but it sux if your real serious about it.

I guess there's nothing wrong with that but what happens is that you miss out on getting to understand a person and what they are like and how they joke. These little things come out when a topic strays off course. In other words you don't learn anything about thier personality...as much as this particular medium allows anyhow.

You're an SS Obergruppenfuhrer of the topic brigade and won't allow it to wander more than half a sentence. Just saying is all, no biggie.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
Mark Twain

Lionheart

Quote from: Wi11iam on February 26, 2013, 14:58:35
so are you saying that this personality you have linked me to will assist me in understanding the direction these (and maybe you) are coming from with their beliefs?
No, I am saying that you should listen to his videos with an open mind and translate them yourself.

He is speaking on a topic that you are speaking of here. It's good to here the story from every angle, every viewpoint.

He does this for a living, we don't. I said you should attempt to contact him and ask him your questions. But, I'm sure his answers will only lead to further questions.

This statement from Fairywindblues was spot on!
"Asking myself this just leads me into an endless spiral of questioning my reality, which in turn, makes me feel like I'm losing my mind."

Wi11iam

Quote from: its_all_bad on February 26, 2013, 15:59:24
What has this got to do with what I have been saying about Consciousness, beginnings, Higher Self.

Sophism, being distracted by Egocentric constructs a discussion does not mak
e.

Please read the following in case you missed it the first time:

Will, as much as we have all communicated with each other on this thread, it never gets to deviate from the your main focus. Mostly because you won't let it. That's cool, I understand the thread rules and all. But I understand a little bit about people too.

People like to discuss things...sometimes serious stuff and other times not. Many of us are fascinated by the same things but the problem is that we are not all completely serious about the same things. So topics on a thread can tend to wander and eventually evolve into a new beast. That's alright if your just fascinated with the topic but it sux if your real serious about it.

I guess there's nothing wrong with that but what happens is that you miss out on getting to understand a person and what they are like and how they joke. These little things come out when a topic strays off course. In other words you don't learn anything about thier personality...as much as this particular medium allows anyhow.

You're an SS Obergruppenfuhrer of the topic brigade and won't allow it to wander more than half a sentence. Just saying is all, no biggie.

Seriously IAB the other aspect regarding your complaint is that such kinds of things can be used to derail or at least change tracks away from a particular topic focus because peps find it doesn't fit their beliefs or challenges their beliefs or any number of other reasons, and it is wise to watch for, I am sure you can  agree.

Hey, if the topic makes one feel uncomfortable or one simply has no interest in what is being expressed, then one can find the halls of fun and frivolity and joke away etc...don't you think?  One does not have to persist in disruptive frivolity, and if one does, then it is fair enough to call it out yes?


If I think a concept brought into the discussion is able to be expanded with the addition of topic focus - that at the source, Consciousness has always existed, then of course I am going to continue to bring this to the fore. 

I am not being Nazi about it.  But I am being disciplined, mature, organised and ever mindful of common pit falls which can go off onto unrelated tangents....and the methods which are sometimes used to control such method of distraction, whether they be subtle humor, shadowy 'taking the tinkle' or more forthright attempts at changing the subject.

When it comes to getting to understand any personality, I take these as they come at face value.  I tend to keep an eye on the ones who prove to be contrary to their original - initial - expression because it is often the case that such behavior is evidence of....shiftiness...a shift in expression bouncing hither tither and not wishing to be pinned down to any particular...personality. They tend to say one thing and do another, or in the case of cyber personalities, they say one thing and then say another thing which almost or does contradict the first, and when questioned about it turn around and say they were only joking...lordy!  I mean really - do they want to be known, stable, reliable trustworthy, dependable...so the personality presented through such type expression is unclear - it is not one which is able to be transparent - a bit like the boy who cried 'wolf' or Pinnocio...ya know...or a mix of those two personalities.

So hey - I have shown clearly already in this thread that I am quiet able and willing to 'deviate' to a degree, such as in this instance, yapping about personality etc...but I always have in mind, be that a thread I have created or one which another has created, to get back to the subject and overall content of the thread out of respect for individuals and for the subject at hand.

Are we all good now?



Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind

Wi11iam

#178
Quote from: Lionheart on February 26, 2013, 18:53:07
No, I am saying that you should listen to his videos with an open mind and translate them yourself.

He is speaking on a topic that you are speaking of here. It's good to here the story from every angle, every viewpoint.

He does this for a living, we don't. I said you should attempt to contact him and ask him your questions. But, I'm sure his answers will only lead to further questions.


Okay - well I have listened to that vid and it has some aspects in it to which I am familiar with.  i wouldn't say it is what I am saying though (in relation to that which has no beginning) :)
I wrote down what was said and had some Qs for you on it, but since it is not something you believe, maybe those Qs shouldn;t be directed to you.

Quote from: Lionheart on February 26, 2013, 18:53:07


This statement from Fairywindblues was spot on!
"Asking myself this just leads me into an endless spiral of questioning my reality, which in turn, makes me feel like I'm losing my mind."


My answer to Fairywindblues (and to any who feel that way) is worth reading.  

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/in_the_beginning-t39778.0.html;msg326334#msg326334


Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind

Astralzombie

Quote from: Wi11iam on February 26, 2013, 19:08:56
Are we all good now?

Almost.

You asked this:

QuoteWhat has this got to do with what I have been saying about Consciousness, beginnings, Higher Self. Sophism, being distracted by Egocentric constructs a discussion does not make.

When I wrote:

Quote
I'm not saying I exist without anyone else. I'm saying I exist despite of anyone else I know with my current physical brain and knowledge of.
So no dishonesty implied or intended.
Besides, I only made the statement in context of a theory that is not necessarily my own but I do actually believe that you can't prove to me that I can't exist without you. But if you do actually have a way to prove this to me then I would be believing in the wrong thing and I assure you, it wouldn't be the first time.

Which was a response to this question of your's:

QuoteCan you elaborate this concept for me IAB...

I thought you wanted me to elaborate per your request so I did.

O.k. We're good now and always were.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
Mark Twain

Wi11iam

Yes I saw that IAB but I still couldn't connect the dots...why/how (?) this subject came up.
I don't know why it was necessary for you to make this point.  Perhaps I missed it...

I remember when I read what you wrote - my thoughts went something like 'is this person pulling my chain or what?'  I mean it is obvious is it not?

You said:
Quote"but I do actually believe that you can't prove to me that I can't exist without you."

I thought to myself:
"I would have to exist in order for me to prove anything to you.  You would have to exist in order for me to prove anything to you. What has belief got to do with it?  It is simply matter of fact."

So it seemed moot and beside the point...

It does give me pause to chuckle though.  :)
Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind

Wi11iam

Quote from: Lionheart on February 26, 2013, 04:22:10
Wi11iam, I think you could learn a lot from this guy.

Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LLq96yzONo

He has many videos where he tried to explain what is this reality.

Maybe he would answer some of your questions as well!  :-)

Quote"Physical" reality as you call it – as we have said many times – is a reflection of your state of being your state of Consciousness – there really is nothing out side of you -  you're not really IN Physical Reality - Physical Reality is within you.
It's within your consciousness. It is a concept that you are experiencing of yourself from a certain perspective however we understand that the way in which you have chosen to experience your particular dimension of physical experience is as though you are within a realm of  space and time as you call it but what is that exactly?

What is space what is time? Again – while they are illusionary you still create the effect of them the experience of them in your life experience as a physical being a physicalised being so to speak where you have taken your energy – the energy the high frequency energy of your spirit nature – your non physical nature and in this sense have lowered that frequency – crystallised that frequency down into what you call the experience – the matrix of - the structure of  physical reality
.
Now again this is going on within your consciousness you're not actually in any place really called physical reality – its all within – Nevertheless we understand that the way you chose to experience this makes it appear to be outside of you – so the thing to remember in order to give yourself more opportunity to chose and experience the kind of physical reality you prefer – the kind of physical reality that you say is more in alignment with your true vibration is to begin to see and experience physical reality as a reflection similar to the idea of the reflection that exists in your glass mirror – you know that when you look at your reflection in a glass mirror you know that you're not really  'over there' – and you know that if you want to change the reflection in the glass mirror  you don't go to the reflection and attempt to make it change you must change your self in order to see the change in the reflection so physical reality being a reflection being a hall of mirrors operates in much the same kind of modality – any change in which you see in the so called reflection  - the outer reality must begin within must begin within the inner reality which is you within your consciousness – within your vibration within your state of being .

I think the 'we' in this video is something channeled - it appears that way.  I can't see exactly what the 'we' is referring to in relation to the 'you'.

Who believes this actually?  Do you believe this Lionheart? 

Its seems to separate the consciousness from the 'you'...
Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind

Szaxx

It appears to explain that this physical reality is a small piece of the whole. Our conciousness here is not the whole or everythng. It is solidified form we take in its experience and with this we are disconnected from the whole and see ourselves as a concious singularity.
It doesn't explain the whole, it says it exists and all are part of it.
There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.

Wi11iam

Quote from: Szaxx on February 28, 2013, 17:55:09
It appears to explain that this physical reality is a small piece of the whole. Our conciousness here is not the whole or everythng. It is solidified form we take in its experience and with this we are disconnected from the whole and see ourselves as a concious singularity.
It doesn't explain the whole, it says it exists and all are part of it.


Yes I can see that Szaxx - and it appears to me most APers tend to understand it like that too.  I would say that the angle I am coming from - the approach I am taking here - is self identity and that there is no purpose in using expressions such as 'my consciousness/soul/spirit etc' because this is what I (you/us) are. 
:)

When we are involved with different states/universes/simulations etc we tend to identify with the aspects of the simulation, and in the case of APing, we take those identities there too - although on occasion is is not always the case.

Essentially if we can learn to identify with Consciousness as being What We Are - some of the separation elements can more easily drop away...we can begin to communicate with 'each other' as aspects of our self - no more or less real but equal. 

I think that this shift in identity may be the key to sharing the experience less subjectively and more objectively too.

Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind

Fairywindblues

Thanks Wi11iam. Everything you said made sense in the sense that it made no sense at all... if that makes sense?  :wink:

Because nothing about consciousness makes sense and that's just the way it is.

I feel like I need to go do more research on this void/big bang thing. Even though everyone claims it's much needed to branch away from the concepts of things having a beginning/end, it's so hard not to wonder what everything was like in the 'beginning' if there ever were such a thing.

Whatever sprang the events into motion that led up to us being... 'us' -- well, I wish I just could have been around to see all that. Oh wait, maybe I was there. Maybe we all were.  :-P

The maybes really get to me, though. Like I said, consciousness is such a topic that can lead one to question their sanity. The ifs, and hows, and whats of this 'beginning' everyone speaks of, are not fully capable of being grasped by the human brain.

What I can say is that I do believe that the astral is our true home. The astral is not dense or full of materialized matter because I believe the substance (isn't it called astral substance or ether substance?) resonates on a higher frequency. I believe that in order for something to materialize and become set in stone on the material planes, it has to have been revised and carefully planned out on the astral. All of us ending up in the same reality probably means that we all concentrated on crystallizing this reality back when it was still a rough draft project. 

My personal theory is that in the beginning, the astral existed first, or the substance that created the astral existed first. Once it was utilized, it sprang into an infinite number of planes. Somewhere in the midst of everything, consciousness came to be/or already was.

However, I cannot see what came before the astral. I don't have the power to. My human mind isn't capable of grasping it at this point.  :-P

Szaxx

I can say from experience that being one with all is .. It has to be experienced.
In the highest order of clairvoyant dreams you become one with everything. Its a physical environment and you are everything all at the same time. You are the blades of grass, the metals, the operating machinery, the people, their thoughts and the worst part all their emotions too. No words exist to put justice in order.  You are there and until the vision plays out you're in it for the ride. Its a universal conciousness. It also takes masses of your energy and you're not the same for some days.
I've looked the world over for answers and found nothing. Not one report of this level of clarity. It was switched off a long time ago and really never left. I may attempt a switch on but hesitant until I can remember why it was switched off.
The ' has the firework failed to light' question is attached here. Then if it has after risking being severely burned, do we attempt a re-light.
Enigmatics for psychological damage...
There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.

Wi11iam

Hey Szaxx 'n Fairywindblues  beautiful posts - unfortunately I have to go play a weekend gig real soon so am unable to reply in a way both posts deserve - will do so when I return but thought I would just acknowledge your contributions before I get me gone :)

xx

Catcha ina few daze...
Think With The Heart - Feel With The Mind

Astralzombie

Quote from: Wi11iam on February 27, 2013, 02:24:53
Yes I saw that IAB but I still couldn't connect the dots...why/how (?) this subject came up.
I don't know why it was necessary for you to make this point.  Perhaps I missed it...

I remember when I read what you wrote - my thoughts went something like 'is this person pulling my chain or what?'  I mean it is obvious is it not?

You said:
I thought to myself:
"I would have to exist in order for me to prove anything to you.  You would have to exist in order for me to prove anything to you. What has belief got to do with it?  It is simply matter of fact."

So it seemed moot and beside the point...

It does give me pause to chuckle though.  :)


It was in a hypothetical situation, will. Scientists do it all the time but I'm not gonna waste anytime trying to give you an example because you will just attack the hypothetical example rather than try to see the point at all. I can clearly see now that we are not here debating a theory at all. We are just here to be taught your theory or more appropriately, your theorem.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
Mark Twain

Contenteo

A Discussion of what are thread is within a thread. What a Thread! by even the thread's standards.
In fact, At this point I think even the thread, itself, has identity concerns.


Everything which has a beginning is by that very fact - a simulation.


Let's put the theory to the test. So, Let's 'simulate' an end.

And attempt to 'simulate' a new beginning to see how the theory holds.

Here's what I think I gathered from the dissenters.

You can simulate anything except a beginning.


See you in the next 'thread'.

Cheers,
Contenteo