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daem0n

my rebirth started here, with finding these forums, was my starting point and sometimes safe harbor when i was dealing with the unimaginable (thx Tay, Rastus, and others), and, most of the time, with myself
(this moment is complete in it's own right)

effectiveness is the measure of truth
i wish you (all) godspeed
Search for the cause of self, in self
To find everything and nothing

Kazbadan

You are leaving?

hmmm....you no time you will come back... you will miss our company  :wink: .

Good luck with you my friend. May you find good things on your life. :D
I love you!

Leannain


CaCoDeMoN

Goodbye!
I hope I'll see you again on other forum...
MEAT=MURDER.

Telos

Then I wish you an effective journey. :) Even if it intersects back here.

pmlonline

Best wishes on your journey.  Regardless how you view reality, I hope you continue to strive for goodness.  One thing the Many Worlds Interpretation, the Matrix, the Force, Buddhism, Christianity have in common is that there is a thing that sustains the energy which sustains your life.  Some call that thing God.  That thing is the guide to the many worlds.  It has our best interest.

Peace & Love,
Paul
NOTE: I believe a moderator may have edited some of my posts on mysticism. I will no longer post here until users can know when moderators edit their posts.

Free 700 pg online book from an Initiate:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng00.htm#contents

daem0n

hm, returned, but will post sparingly

pml, although we disagreed in the past, i came to understand your ways, although this "surrender" thing is unacceptable to me

when i removed enough of my earthly shell there was no surrender at all, only recogniction of my true nature
Search for the cause of self, in self
To find everything and nothing

pmlonline

Quote from: daem0n
pml, although we disagreed in the past, i came to understand your ways, although this "surrender" thing is unacceptable to me
when i removed enough of my earthly shell there was no surrender at all, only recogniction of my true nature

Keep searching daemon.  When you get there you will see two options.  1) Not surrender to God.  2) Surrender to God.  The first one is what the fallen angelic kingdom chose during the last great earth period countless years ago before this earth was created.  The second is much better. :-)  God is Good!
NOTE: I believe a moderator may have edited some of my posts on mysticism. I will no longer post here until users can know when moderators edit their posts.

Free 700 pg online book from an Initiate:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng00.htm#contents

mactombs

QuoteKeep searching daemon. When you get there you will see two options. 1) Not surrender to God. 2) Surrender to God. The first one is what the fallen angelic kingdom chose during the last great earth period countless years ago before this earth was created. The second is much better.  God is Good!

When you surrender, please keep both hands raised.

It is true that I had to banish angels for not surrendering, or for surrendering, but only with one hand raised and the other with a hot latte. Lattes are of Me, but if you're going to surrender, please be serious about it.

Also, if you do join the other team, could you send Me some of those hot wings? We don't have hot wings like that over here ...

And of course I am good - I made good ... (good like those hot wings ... beautiful use of the term ... mmm ... )
A certain degree of neurosis is of inestimable value as a drive, especially to a psychologist - Sigmund Freud

daem0n

polarity ? where ?
my current experience is Tao, hence no surrender, just harmony
Search for the cause of self, in self
To find everything and nothing

CaCoDeMoN

Quote
God is Good!
There are many gods.
MEAT=MURDER.

pmlonline

Quote from: CaCoDeMoN
Quote
God is Good!
There are many gods.
So that's what they tell you.


Quote from: daem0npolarity ? where ?
my current experience is Tao, hence no surrender, just harmony

Welcome back!

Yin / Yang, Positive / Negative, Up / Down, Yes / No, On / Off, Big / Small, Slow / Fast.  This is the universal law of Relativity.  Einstein got that correct.  In martial arts it's been my experience that they teach to surrender.  When you surrender then the chi begins to flow.  When I was very little, I learned to use chi by just letting go, almost like being a wet noodle.  Then and only then was I able to snap huge branches that normally I could never break.  It was funny to me that when I tried least is when I succeeded most.  In Aikido they teach not to fight against your opponent, but rather use their strength.

Long ago didn't the greys also chose to be God?  Didn't they want to be all things?  Didn't they want to be boss and live in harmony without God?  Didn't they fall and were left behind to the physical plane?  How much agonizing pain did they go through because of their choice?  Do they now feel?  One should ask why they can barely feel now?  Long, long ago weren't they once filled with happiness and harmony?

When was the Soul created?  It had a beginning long long ago before physical birth.  Was God before you?  Surrender to God is good-- God is good.  There is a difference between being part of all things and being all things.  Next time when one of the fallen angles, in disguise, or the voice of the beast within says you are God, that you are all things, then ask them to move the Sun in the sky for thousands to see.  Didn't 70,000 people see God move the Sun on that day of October 13th 1917 at Fatima?
NOTE: I believe a moderator may have edited some of my posts on mysticism. I will no longer post here until users can know when moderators edit their posts.

Free 700 pg online book from an Initiate:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng00.htm#contents

daem0n

ah, you meant letting go
now we're talking  8)
i understood surrender in a different way, as admiting defeat/being weaker
when you say god it sounds like xtian style, how did you experience it ?
never claimed being god, only part of him, as essence behind all things
paternal figure is just fishy to me  :wink:
Search for the cause of self, in self
To find everything and nothing

pmlonline

Some use the word "Universe" instead of the word "God".

Defeat wouldn't be much of a positive spiritual philosophy.  Surrender is used a lot.  Maybe it's misunderstand a lot.  Surrender ... as in letting go of the tight grip ... as in trusting something that created you.  I thought surrender is often used because one is letting go and letting a force, an energy take control.  For example, our mind surrenders to the physical body to control thousands of bodily functions and parts such as the heart.  The mind cannot control so many things at once and often doesn't know how yet.  As you may know the universe is alive and conscious.  In this group consciousness there are group laws.  One could always leave and be on their own, start their own group.  Probably no a wise decision at this stage.  It's like a child rebelling and running away from home.  We intuitively trust our body.  Over time the whole shim learns to trust God.  It is our creator after all.  Someone said there are many Gods.  That should be a little "g", no?  Move the Sun, create a universe, and then I'll call one God. :)

Sorry to take your time brother, but if you will, what do you call a program?  Is this your matrix belief?
NOTE: I believe a moderator may have edited some of my posts on mysticism. I will no longer post here until users can know when moderators edit their posts.

Free 700 pg online book from an Initiate:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng00.htm#contents

daem0n

i percieve universe/creation as energy matrix operating on specific programs
program would be a set of commands allowing energy to flow in specific way
(universal laws, physic laws, etc)
no program = no action
consciousness included

(i noticed that common mistake is observing reaction to your programs and mistaking them with reaction with you, hence illusion of self as something whole, permanent, existing etc
right now i percieve "self" as a symbol for a set of programs, makes easier to focus and distinguish boundaries, of course there are layers to this (felt right to add this))
Search for the cause of self, in self
To find everything and nothing

Telos


Ybom

Quote from: pmlonlineKeep searching daemon.  When you get there you will see two options.  1) Not surrender to God.  2) Surrender to God.  The first one is what the fallen angelic kingdom chose during the last great earth period countless years ago before this earth was created.  The second is much better. :-)  God is Good!

I may be wrong, but;

My views on God allow us to only be a part of God, making it impossible to surrender to him. God allowed free thinking to a limited degree, so how can anyone not think things that God intended them to?

And personally I think you are misguided about God being good. God encompases both good, bad, the grey area inbetween, and the regions humans can't even begin to comprehend about such things.
I come prepared...with COOKIES! No, you can't have one!

pmlonline

Quote from: Ybom
My views on God allow us to only be a part of God
Yes, we are part of God.

Quote from: Ybom, making it impossible to surrender to him. God allowed free thinking to a limited degree, so how can anyone not think things that God intended them to?
Not impossible. God can be your gateway to the many worlds.  To fight life, to be a so-called "control freak" is to not surrender to the Universe / God.  When you drop all things, accept whatever may come, be humble and grateful and joyful for it, allow the Universe life force to flow through your being, then eventually wonderful things will happen-- you creator wonderful experiences and much more.
To not surrender to God means you do not want the life force to flow through you.  It means many things, but eventually leads to the death of the Shim for eternity.


Quote from: YbomAnd personally I think you are misguided about God being good. God encompases both good, bad, the grey area inbetween, and the regions humans can't even begin to comprehend about such things.
I hear you my friend.  You say that I am wrong because I say God is good.  By your data and by logic then God is not good or bad, but neutral.  Although when one stands back and looks at the whole picture, then doesn't it seem a little odd, like something is missing when one says God is not good?  Here are my definitions ->
Good - is constructive and creates.
Bad - is destructive and destroys.

In the beginning God was all there was.  God created.  God continues to create to this very day.  You say God is all that is good and bad.  The bad in the universe does indeed destroy.  For example, there are many fallen angels of the angelic kingdom (part of last human kingdom that fell) that want nothing but destruction for the human kingdom.  Then there are those of the Angelic kingdom that were and are good.  If you tally up both the bad and good Angels then would you be surprised to hear that there are more good than bad?  Long long ago before this earth was created was another earth.  The humans back then were the present Angelic kingdom.  One third of the Angelic kingdom fell.  So we now have one third bad and two thirds good.  On average this is the way of things.  Why?  Because the Universe is always creating more than it is destroying.  That is, in totality there are always more beings that create than who destroy.  This is why in "totality" all is good; i.e., in totality there is more being created than destroyed.  God is good! :-)

Peace & Love,
Paul
NOTE: I believe a moderator may have edited some of my posts on mysticism. I will no longer post here until users can know when moderators edit their posts.

Free 700 pg online book from an Initiate:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng00.htm#contents

CaCoDeMoN

Quote
Not impossible. God can be your gateway to the many worlds. To fight life, to be a so-called "control freak" is to not surrender to the Universe / God. When you drop all things, accept whatever may come, be humble and grateful and joyful for it, allow the Universe life force to flow through your being, then eventually wonderful things will happen-- you creator wonderful experiences and much more.
To not surrender to God means you do not want the life force to flow through you. It means many things, but eventually leads to the death of the Shim for eternity.
What is Shim?
About surrendering to God: I think that complete surrender is as bad as being a "control freak". By controlling something you become a part of the creative/destructive process you call "God". The only thing that is bad is trying to control others without a reason or "for their own good". When you don't want to contol anything you can't be active part of a creative/destructive process, and you become a passive element.
MEAT=MURDER.

pmlonline

Quote from: CaCoDeMoN
What is Shim?

Lower self.


Quote from: CaCoDeMoN
About surrendering to God: I think that complete surrender is as bad as being a "control freak". By controlling something you become a part of the creative/destructive process you call "God".

It is the Shim that should surrender to God.  The shim is as an atom compared to God.  Without guidance from the upper the shim eventually falls into darkness and dies.  God created you and could take you away at any moment.  By free will the creator gives you choice.  You have a false idea about surrender.  To resent God is a great mistake.  The creator will grant such free will and the complete separtion from God leads to spiritual death.  The creator loves you more than you can imagine.  Surrender is allowing God to guide you.  You can work with God.  Then life becomes alive.  The very life force that keeps your shim alive at this moment is from God.


Quote from: CaCoDeMoN
The only thing that is bad is trying to control others without a reason or "for their own good".

Believe me, if God wanted to control you it would be done.  He wants the best for you.


Quote from: CaCoDeMoN
When you don't want to contol anything you can't be active part of a creative/destructive process, and you become a passive element.
[/quote]

God doesn't want to control you.  God wants to work with you.  In the spiritual community it is often referred to as surrender.  If you want to be the big boss of the universe, to be separate from God, and all the so-called wonderful things that the fallen angelic kingdom wanted billions of years ago, then it will be yours.  Be careful what you will.  In time it will be so.

Best wishes,
Paul
NOTE: I believe a moderator may have edited some of my posts on mysticism. I will no longer post here until users can know when moderators edit their posts.

Free 700 pg online book from an Initiate:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng00.htm#contents

Ybom

Quote from: pmlonlineGod doesn't want to control you.
Maybe God does want to control you. This is why I converted to agnosticism recently, since I believe I am God, in the many limbs of God sense (and yet I still don't know what I want/need).

But yes I agree with your logic completely. The problem with that (for me at least) is that sometimes logic isn't the only part of the equation. Logic is only a small part of God.
I come prepared...with COOKIES! No, you can't have one!

daem0n

you meant the shift between "controlling" and allowing oneself to control

hm, this would be distinguished by controlling to maintain identity (entity) as defined by external terms, to "just" controlling, as a part of the "flow" (no identity, but i have no idea how to put this through)
Search for the cause of self, in self
To find everything and nothing

pmlonline

Quote from: YbomBut yes I agree with your logic completely. The problem with that (for me at least) is that sometimes logic isn't the only part of the equation. Logic is only a small part of God.
I hear your concerns.  I have another story.  There are many levels to the shim ->

1. The physical instincts.  The instincts can be very noticeable when ones life is in danger.  This is a very very faint reflection of the Divine Self.
2.  Emotions.  This is by far the most dangerous aspect of the shim.  In the East is has been described as the beast within or ones self-demons.  It is the Astral body, also called the Desire body.  It can express intense hatred one moment yet great love the next.  This type of love is often false love.  It is emotional love that is based on attachment to another person and the flow emotional energy through the charkas, which feels good.  It is not the source of unconditional love, which can be seen between the Mother or Father and Child, but it can be a gateway to express unconditional love just as tears is the gateway to express love in the physical body.
3. Concrete mental thought.

Beyond the shim is the higher and divine self.  Some expressions of this 2nd aspect are abstract mental thought and intuition.  The first, abstract mental thought, is somewhat developed in humanity.  It was strong in people such as Tesla and Einstein.  It is connected to concrete thought.  Then there is Intuition.  The intuition is connected to the astral body.  In nearly every person on earth this flow of energy to the astral is so faint that it is often guestimate-truth.  Unfortunately a great deal of people believes in their intuition for means of judging others.  Since the astral body is highly undeveloped in most people, this leads to great mistakes in judgment.

For the above reasons, it is said that logic / concrete thought is the present best tool for humanity, unless you are an avatar / super human.  


Quote from: Ybom
Quote from: pmlonlineGod doesn't want to control you.
Maybe God does want to control you. This is why I converted to agnosticism recently, since I believe I am God, in the many limbs of God sense (and yet I still don't know what I want/need).

That is exactly what made one third of the angelic kingdom fall during the last earth in the moon period.  God gets what God wants.  If he wanted to control you then you would be a puppet.  God created you.  God wants to be with you, to help you grow and be healthy, what is best for you.  This is normal for a parent.  Humanity is presently in the adolescent period.  Some children show strong signs of wanting to rebel, to be their own boss, and even run away from home.

So you may be wondering why doesn't God tell you this.  I would say that God does.  It is that small quite still voice within.  Most people live a noisy life.  On present Earth it is like a rebelling child with headphones on listening to heavy metal music.

Peace & Love,
Paul
NOTE: I believe a moderator may have edited some of my posts on mysticism. I will no longer post here until users can know when moderators edit their posts.

Free 700 pg online book from an Initiate:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng00.htm#contents

Ybom

Quote from: pmlonlineThat is exactly what made one third of the angelic kingdom fall during the last earth in the moon period.  God gets what God wants.  If he wanted to control you then you would be a puppet.  God created you.  God wants to be with you, to help you grow and be healthy, what is best for you.  This is normal for a parent.  Humanity is presently in the adolescent period.  Some children show strong signs of wanting to rebel, to be their own boss, and even run away from home.
So we agree, except on the fact that God never would desire to control anyone? Erm, we are all parts of God, so God will directly control those that he needs to at any point. Plus in a way, as children of "free will", which is what God wanted as best as we know, essentially by being human we are still being controlled and limited by God.

How does free will equate to being controlled by God though? Well, last I checked, I wasn't able to do most of that which I desire, simply because of my human roots. Therefore, God controls me because God made me human.

Quote from: pmlonlineThat is exactly what made one third of the angelic kingdom fall during the last earth in the moon period.
I never knew that anyone on Earth had direct knowledge of the exact number of angels in heaven, unless you're being symbolic here...?

Quote from: pmlonlineSo you may be wondering why doesn't God tell you this.
Not at all, since when that question comes up in my mind, I try to douse the curiosity fire with "Be patient!"

Additionally, along your lines of categorizing God, you still have a hella long way to go.
I come prepared...with COOKIES! No, you can't have one!

pmlonline

Quote from: Ybom
So we agree, except on the fact that God never would desire to control anyone? Erm, we are all parts of God, so God will directly control those that he needs to at any point. Plus in a way, as children of "free will", which is what God wanted as best as we know, essentially by being human we are still being controlled and limited by God.

I agree, we are part of the body of God.
I believe there are universal laws so long as we wish to play in Gods land.  For example, the physical plane is created and bound by group consciousness.  Therefore, if the shim wishes to play in and go to school in this grand group consciousness called the physical plane then it must abide by the universal laws.

I see God as the creative force.  Yes, I agree that we are part of the body of God, but I also believe God is the force, the existence that created us and that binds all things together.  It seems that some people define God as a being.  It is true, according to what I was taught, that there was a being that created us and we are in the image of that being.  I am not referring to our space brothers.  Some call this being the Father.  You could say he is the Father of this solar system.  I was told that he directly created this solar system.  Then there is one who created the galaxy.  And one who created this universe.  Although I refer to God as all things.  Then one might ask then how can one be in touch with God if God is so far above.  There is a flow of energy that flows through all things.  It is the energy that flows from above to each chakra, and the next, on down.  This energy is also what consciousness is.  It is energy that is alive.  That energy came from God, the creator of all things.  As it flows though you it experiences what you experience because all things are connected.  What you experience can be experienced by another.  The energy flowed from your lower vehicles and came from the higher self and then from the divine self.  There is an incredible thread of energy that connects all of these sparks of divinity together.  This thread is connected to your group.  And from this group is connect to many other groups.  And the thread of life energy, this universal flow, is connected to higher and higher planes to eventually it reaches its creator.  As the Archangels are group consciousness, so is God.  Any advanced obe traveler can *see* how a group of 1000's of beings does indeed make one being in totality called an Archangel.  For example, Archangel Michael is very very real.  If this being, Archangel Michael, stopped existing then an entire human race on Earth would cease to exist.  If we knew the power of this being, then just imagine God, creator of all things!

I agree that God is not imaginable by our puny minds and senses.  One simple way to imagine this is through computers.  You could say we are the software, a computer program.  And God is the entire computer.


Quote from: Ybom
How does free will equate to being controlled by God though? Well, last I checked, I wasn't able to do most of that which I desire, simply because of my human roots. Therefore, God controls me because God made me human.
I see it from a different point of view.  Yes, in our present state of existence we are limited.  For example, the physical plane does indeed have universal rules that we, as a single shim, are unable to break.  The universal law of karma cannot be broken.  A child has rules that the parents made, but this does not mean the parents control the childs free will.  The child can run away from home if he wishes, make his own rules, live on his own.  Although running away is not a wise choice.  The rules God provides are for everyone's well being.  God is a creator, not a controller or destroyer!


Quote from: Ybom
Quote from: pmlonlineThat is exactly what made one third of the angelic kingdom fall during the last earth in the moon period.
I never knew that anyone on Earth had direct knowledge of the exact number of angels in heaven, unless you're being symbolic here...?
No, I was not being symbolic.  One third is just the number given to us.  It is in the Bible and it is provided in the Hall of Records in the higher planes.  Yes there is an exact number, but I never searched for it.


Quote from: Ybom
Quote from: pmlonlineSo you may be wondering why doesn't God tell you this.
Not at all, since when that question comes up in my mind, I try to douse the curiosity fire with "Be patient!"
It is a question that all curious humans have or will ask.


Quote from: Ybom
Additionally, along your lines of categorizing God, you still have a hella long way to go.
Best wishes to you.
NOTE: I believe a moderator may have edited some of my posts on mysticism. I will no longer post here until users can know when moderators edit their posts.

Free 700 pg online book from an Initiate:
http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng00.htm#contents