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Osama Bin Laden's Primary Focus No Longer F1!

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DH

It may not be world wide terrorism, but there are "Christians" who kill and terrorize in the name of Jesus.  Scott Roeder is a "born again" Christian who shot and killed a doctor in Wichita KS because he was "killing babies."  The murder was what he perceived to be what his Christian beliefs demanded.  This murder scared other doctors into closing up shop.  It sounds like terrorism to me.  The scary thing is, there are other Christians in Kansas and Oklahoma who thought this was okay.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10298/1097565-67.stm

DH
God created the Universe for His 7th grade science project -- and got a C.     - Swami Beyondananda

Fresco

Quote from: DH on May 13, 2011, 00:15:32
It may not be world wide terrorism, but there are "Christians" who kill and terrorize in the name of Jesus.  Scott Roeder is a "born again" Christian who shot and killed a doctor in Wichita KS because he was "killing babies."  The murder was what he perceived to be what his Christian beliefs demanded.  This murder scared other doctors into closing up shop.  It sounds like terrorism to me.  The scary thing is, there are other Christians in Kansas and Oklahoma who thought this was okay.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10298/1097565-67.stm

DH
You still cant even begin to compare them.  Muslim Jihad is a worldwide movement, while a few lone nuts blowing up abortion clinics is done by a tiny little minority of whacky Christians

Lexy

they have a wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism


oh come on now...you don't really believe it's just a handful? how can you say one terrorist group is worse than another?
"Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves."

SomeRandom

Quote from: Lexy on May 13, 2011, 01:16:04
they have a wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism


oh come on now...you don't really believe it's just a handful? how can you say one terrorist group is worse than another?

Easy, its in the Muslim religion to kill nonbelievers. Even though not all Christians follow their religion, they preach love and tolerance.


"What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." -Oliver Wendell Holmes

Lexy

Quote from: SomeRandom on May 13, 2011, 02:18:37
Easy, its in the Muslim religion to kill nonbelievers. Even though not all Christians follow their religion, they preach love and tolerance.




oh really?

http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm
"Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves."

SomeRandom

Yeah but if you noticed in the world we live in today, most Christians dont follow these "rules".
Muslims on the other hand.... Take their bible a lot more seriously.

"What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." -Oliver Wendell Holmes

Lexy

Quote from: SomeRandom on May 13, 2011, 02:34:37
Yeah but if you noticed in the world we live in today, most Christians dont follow these "rules".
Muslims on the other hand.... Take their bible a lot more seriously.




Fanatics take their bibles literally, fanatics! Are you saying all Muslims are terrorists?
"Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves."

Stillwater

QuoteEasy, its in the Muslim religion to kill nonbelievers. Even though not all Christians follow their religion, they preach love and tolerance.

Lexy's Link does give some great examples:


    Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

    If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

-----------------------

These are the closest thing to the inciting of Jihad you will ever see, and they are in the Bible.

My personal favorite:

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

That means anyone here claiming to be a medium should be slaughtered by any Christian that encounters them, or they bring doom upon themsleves as well.

"The Gardener is but a dream of the Garden."

-Unattributed Zen monastic

ether2

#83
stillwater
seen visions of what looked like ya avatar last night or the night before, dont know why...see heaps of visions

and my two cents
what one must remember when reading anything scripted by those that departed before us that others believe were above all else (prophet etc) what was supposably what was as in what they teach is clearly a time frame thing, i consider-taught/trained life is a business as in business if ya did as the year before your dead!!! ya go broke!!!
i personally would not go by anything that was scripted centuries ago at a level of consciousness of what one would be expected if they were on the road/path to enlightement/developement of the mind to be your best, what one can do today with the mind and i have to go by what many donot know about the life and death cycle the minipulation of it for the better of all you can not "and by experience" can not go by one religion or follow one religion, respecting all religions equally gives you the knowledge/wisdom understanding how these world/s operate life and death included, it wont give ya this knowledge/wisdom if ya going to favor one religion or race PERIOD...this gives you knowledge of the energy needed to run the world/s system/s mother nature etc including earthquakes...like many raise energy to do things with the mind same goes for the world/s operations it rerquires energy...ya don't get this knowledge/wisdom respecting/following one religion... remember lifes a business disrespecting one or more areas of it (example accounting/marketing/admin/pr/etc) and ya dead you no longer exist in business...same goes if ya want to be in the business of life/world the minipulation of life/death/weather etc for the better of all :wink:

the main reason for deversity in religions is the energy required for the world/s system/s...confrontation=emotions=energy=needed/was...
NO DISRERSPECT TO ANY OF THE PROPHETS OF THE NON/LEADING RELIGIONS
and for Astral316 no secret hand shakes required...just love all

good luck

love all
Don't Forget-Love All, Means To Care 4 all=being more ONE which is the highest of height of consciousnesses in the dimension we live in...love all doesnt mean cuddly cuddly

http://thewayitisether.wordpress.com/

Rudolph

#84
QuoteThese are the closest thing to the inciting of Jihad you will ever see, and they are in the Bible.

Yes, there are all sorts of exhortations to violence in the OLD TESTAMENT. But they are nothing compared to the commands of another holy book which REQUIRES all the faithful to wage Jihad for the expressed purpose of subjugating the entire world under their rule. There is no Christian Command to conquer the world.

Why do people see such a desperate need to make excuses for the terrorists today? and try to make it look like they just like everyone else when it is obvious that they are very different and that this is a very different animal we are dealing with.

Blowing up an empty abortion clinic in the middle of night did not cause terror.

And I do not believe the claims that anyone was terrorized by a lone, murdering gunman who shot one abortionist. From what I can see there was not even a blip in the abortion rate as a result.

These rare acts from decades past are put up as sort of, "see, we do it too" argument and it is completely ridiculous.

There is no valid comparison to Jihadis flying airplanes into buildings and killing thousands of innocent people. There is no comparison to a culture that makes parents think it is a good thing to strap bombs around their own children and send them into a restaurant or bus to blow up innocent people. There is no equivalent to a culture that celebrates and dances in the streets when terrorists climb over a wall in the middle of the night and stab a random family, including plunging knives into the bodies of infants! There is nothing else remotely like a culture that makes men think it is okay to throw battery acid on the faces of little schoolgirls... because they were going to school. On and on and on....

Read the link to the religionofpeace site given earlier and get a clue.

They are NOT just like us.


Beware the fake "seeker" who finds Truth to be abusive.

ether2

Rudolph
what about the people of Christian religion at the top of the chain as in world leaders ENG and are at the top end of controlling people's minds to the degree that it was at the cause of mass destruction earthquakes/floods masses of death from disease accidents and so on that could have been prevented...Japan earthquake death toll pass 18000 people that is dead people 100's of billions of dollars worth of damage, then their were the floods since late 2009 that were preventable many more deaths and many more billions of dollars damage, that were preventable (complicated) all because of some controll freaks at the high end stopping a certain area from doing their business in order to prevent this and other disasters, all because they know they are in the poo because we have the evidence (murder) that will put them away for along time (worst) they also wanted to controll this area/s so they have taken up the world/s time in preventing an area from doing their work which has caused mass deaths more so than terroism in the areas talked about in the above...
hence the mental war in the realms/plains of recent
as well of the disasters since late 2009 preventable...deaths from just disease accidents could have been economically cut to a percentage of 15-23 percent by now easily world wide...many know this...note key word economically the economy could have sustained it easily...
thats terroism at it's best

good luck

love all
Don't Forget-Love All, Means To Care 4 all=being more ONE which is the highest of height of consciousnesses in the dimension we live in...love all doesnt mean cuddly cuddly

http://thewayitisether.wordpress.com/

uhsumdumboy

Quote from: Summerlander on May 03, 2011, 13:25:08
He's dead! Why would president Obama lie about his death when there would be a possibility of him turning up dead? It could ruin his administration and it would be a major scandal. They wouldn't say he's dead unless they were certain that he would not be seen again. Come one...logic! :roll:

Damn conspiracy theorists...

The thing about conspiracy theories is the further you dig, the more logical they are.

personalreality

like they couldn't handle his dead body popping up sometime.

besides summer, the big conspiracy is that he's been dead for almost a decade, not that he's still alive.
be awesome.

Stillwater

QuoteYes, there are all sorts of exhortations to violence in the OLD TESTAMENT. But they are nothing compared to the commands of another holy book which REQUIRES all the faithful to wage Jihad for the expressed purpose of subjugating the entire world under their rule. There is no Christian Command to conquer the world.

Did you read the third I listed carefully, lol?

In order to carry out that command from God, and be spared his wrath, the Christians and Jews of the world should and must slaughter pretty much everyone on earth, since there are people of different religions in pretty much any city or town you look now.

I am not making excuses for terrorists- you suggest more motives I have never pursued. I am simply furthering my counterargument against the claim someone made earlier that Islam is the only religion whose holy book calls for mass jihad; there are unequivocal calls to jihad in the Bible, and Christians have acted on them too.
"The Gardener is but a dream of the Garden."

-Unattributed Zen monastic

CFTraveler

I'm surprised no one mentioned the crusades, unless I missed it?

Rudolph

Quote from: Stillwater on May 13, 2011, 14:01:24
Did you read the third I listed carefully, lol?

In order to carry out that command from God, and be spared his wrath, the Christians and Jews of the world should and must slaughter pretty much everyone on earth, since there are people of different religions in pretty much any city or town you look now.

I am not making excuses for terrorists- you suggest more motives I have never pursued. I am simply furthering my counterargument against the claim someone made earlier that Islam is the only religion whose holy book calls for mass jihad; there are unequivocal calls to jihad in the Bible, and Christians have acted on them too.

You are making excuses in the "oh, everyone does that sort of thing" type claim and that claim is total BS. The third quote you point to says to kill a friend or family who tries to turn you away from your faith. Nothing about GLOBAL Jihad.

I read your Bible quotes and there is nothing that commands Jihad. NOTHING.

you are just making stuff up. Do you have no integrity?

Quote...the Christians and Jews of the world should and must slaughter pretty much everyone on earth

This is pure baloney and no Christians or Jews have acted in Jihadi fashion.

Re: the Crusades... No no one mentioned it but I am glad someone did because this is another lie that the Terrorist sympathizers promulgate to no end.

The Crusades were not any kind of Jihad meant to subjugate the Infidels. They were a completely justified act of self defense. They were not a Holy war of Conquest but a plain and simple counter attack against marauding Islamic armies sweeping across Europe. When the Pope called for the Crusades the Brutal, violent Islamic war of aggressive expansion had moved from Arabia across southern Asia, to India, across North Africa, through Spain, into France, through most of Eastern Europe, Sicily and even into parts of Italy. The Crusades re-captured Jerusalem and parts of Anatolia and stopped there. Get it?! Not even CLOSE to the Muslim Jihad of global conquest.

And it worked great. Muslim expansion was stopped dead in its tracks. Western civilization owes the Pope a huge debt of gratitude for his courage and wisdom. Otherwise women in Europe today would be walking around in Burkas. (That is, the ones who hadn't been stoned to death for adultery, or the crime of being raped).

Beware the fake "seeker" who finds Truth to be abusive.

SomeRandom

Its pretty funny how many people mention the crusades but not many actually know what it was
"What lies before us and what lies behind us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." -Oliver Wendell Holmes

Stillwater

QuoteYou are making excuses in the "oh, everyone does that sort of thing" type claim and that claim is total BS. The third quote you point to says to kill a friend or family who tries to turn you away from your faith. Nothing about GLOBAL Jihad.

I read your Bible quotes and there is nothing that commands Jihad. NOTHING.

you are just making stuff up. Do you have no integrity?

How am I making stuff up? This is in every Bible; you can pick one up and find it. Ok, let's take this piece by piece. There is no mention of the words "family" or friend in these verses. Now all of the Bible is the Word of God transmitted through the gospel writers and the Propehets, and everything found therein makes up man's covenant with God; any Christian or Jew is BOUND to these laws, or faces God's unmitigated wrath. This states that in no uncertain terms, any place Christians and Jew are taking residence, and so much as one other person there professes to another faith, those Christians and Jews need to "attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt." Furthermore, pretty much any town on the face of the earth Christians and Jew are living has at least one person in it professessing another faith. Ergo, about 98% of the world, save some communes and such, should be destroyed, never to be rebuilt, with every person in them slaughtered.

How this does not equate to Jihad, or has to do with friends and family, I don't know.

  Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
"The Gardener is but a dream of the Garden."

-Unattributed Zen monastic

Rudolph

#93
QuoteHow this does not equate to Jihad, or has to do with friends and family, I don't know.

Because honest readers see and know those quotes for what they are. Instructions for that Hebrew leader and how he was to conduct himself in that situation in space in time.

There was no instruction to Christians that can be reasonably interpreted to pursue global conquest of subjugation and conversion as is clearly laid out in Islam. It is blatantly dishonest to make such a claim.

If you can't see the instruction in your own quote limiting the action to family here... I will quote your own post for you;
QuoteIf your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods,...

Sheesh...
Beware the fake "seeker" who finds Truth to be abusive.

personalreality

me thinks rudolph doth protest too much.

all i'm getting out of those posts is muslims are bad.

bigoted much?

i have to say, there's a very large muslim population at my school and not once has any of them tried to behead me for not being muslim.

it's easy for you to quote the rhetoric that we've been fed since "the war on terror", but in practical situations how many muslims do you know that behead people?  how many do you know that actually believe they should be in a holy war against the west?  every muslim i know just wants to practice their religion and be at peace with those around them.  granted, i'm considering muslims that live in the united states, but it still proves the point that it's more likely "orthodox muslims" that live in countries that have been subjugated by the west and who also teach their children that westerners are infidels.  you could say the same about fundamentalist christians here as well.

i guess i just don't really believe all the hype because i know lots of muslims and they're all great people.  better than the southern baptists i grew up with.  i will say that you certainly sound well-informed, however, it's hard to take you seriously because what you're saying is what the american government has been telling it's people since 2001.  it sounds like propaganda from a wartime nation.  
be awesome.

Summerlander


Stillwater

QuoteBecause honest readers see and know those quotes for what they are. Instructions for that Hebrew leader and how he was to cunduct himself in that situation in space in time.

So the Bible is the Word of God which Christians are absolutely held to, but they can decide what parts they want to follow, and what they resonate with? If that were so, what makes the Bible different from a book like Catcher In the Rye? A Christian can take the parts of that book they resonate with, and say the rest is mere rhetoric.

And that is ok with me, that makes sense. But then why does this same clause not apply to Islam? Why are not the calls to the slaying of infidels not merely instructions to a militant group in the 6th/7th Century, that needs to fight to live and propogate itself? Why are the Old Testament verses relics of the past that should not be practiced today, but the verses from the Quoran binding to all Muslims at all times?

QuoteIf you can't see the instruction in your own quote limiting the action to family here... I will quote your own post for you;

Quote
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods,...

Sheesh...

But that is another verse, not the verses in question. I stated we were speaking about the third verse in question, not any other verse in the Bible.

I don't mean to be argumentative, just precise.
"The Gardener is but a dream of the Garden."

-Unattributed Zen monastic

Rudolph

Quoteall i'm getting out of those posts is muslims are bad.
bigoted much?

You just crossed the line PR. I am calling you on your BS. Quote me exactly and show how it demonstrates bigotry. Do that or be revealed as a dishonest, finger-pointing so-n-so.
There is not a bigoted bone in my body. But I reserve the right to make honest, factual comments that reflect negatively on another group if it is relevant to the recent comments and constructive. Just because it is negative does not mean it is bigoted. Not at all. But I have noticed how neurotic, self loathing Westerners are unable to face the hard facts about what Civilization faces in today's world.

Quotei have to say, there's a very large muslim population at my school and not once has any of them tried to behead me for not being muslim.

I will do my best to ignore insipid, irrelevant commentary.

Quoteit's easy for you to quote the rhetoric that we've been fed since "the war on terror",

Quote me exactly and show how it matches "the rhetoric that we've been fed". And show how it is not true and how it was just inserted in random and gratuitous fashion.

Quotehow many do you know that actually believe they should be in a holy war against the west?

Quite a few actually. And they thought taking US citizens as hostages would be great fun too. Let me ask you this? How many young muslim men have you lived in close proximity to for over six months? And how many of them were dating South American women and none of them knew you could speak Spanish?
?

Then in the USA there was a recent poll showing something like 24% of young Muslim boys/men (~14-30yrs old) born and raised in the USA admitted that they believed there were justifiable reasons for Jihadi/terrorist action to kill innocent people. That number goes wayyy up outside the USA.

But yes, of course we know that the majority of Muslims are peace loving people who just want to raise their families in peace... that is why so many are desperately trying to flee their homelands.

Quoteit's hard to take you seriously because what you're saying is what the american government has been telling it's people since 2001.  it sounds like propaganda from a wartime nation.   

Again, prove it. My comments are simply refuting the lies of Terrorist apologists and terrorist sympathizers and the destructive mewling and cowing of self loathing, neurotic westerners. My comments were not propaganda but replies to outright falsehoods.


Beware the fake "seeker" who finds Truth to be abusive.

Rudolph

QuoteWhy are the Old Testament verses relics of the past that should not be practiced today, but the verses from the Quoran binding to all Muslims at all times?

OT verses can be viewed as relics of the past because OT verses are a couple thousand years older than the Koran. (Duh) and no Jew or Christian group is flying airplanes into buildings and waging a jihad bent on global conquest in the name of their god.

And they are not binding because of this thing called the "New Covenant".

And they are also not binding because present exegesis says so. That is NOT the case in large parts of Islam. Present exegesis demands bloody jihad for much of the Muslim faithful. Face facts if you can.

QuoteBut that is another verse, not the verses in question. I stated we were speaking about the third verse in question, not any other verse in the Bible.

Well, please add a little clarity to your precision and just gimme the one quote you are talking about?

Beware the fake "seeker" who finds Truth to be abusive.

personalreality

there just isn't any middle of the road with you is there?  nothing but serious, nose to the grindstone talks. 

the bigotry isn't in the content, it's in the context.  really, you showed up on this forum a few weeks ago and it seems that most of your posts are devoted to convincing us that muslims are bad. 

let me be clear, i don't dispute that islam has some pretty extreme beliefs that effect the world negatively.  however, taken in context with the rest of the atrocities committed by nearly every other culture ever, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.  i just don't understand why you're still here arguing with me and stillwater and whoever else.  you've expressed your point quite clearly multiple times.  i just haven't seen you contribute much else to the forum and i'm wondering if you're here to talk politics with people that you perceive to be "hippie-pacifist" types or if you're actually here for astral projection (you know, the topic of the forum).

be awesome.