The Anti-Clinton Library

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

Hey Daniel, I am really not a political animal but still I can not stop myself from following "the game" to a certain degree...  I have been following the swedish and the american (global) "game" for some years now, and I have to say that even Bill Clinton doesn´t go to history as the most "ideal" american president in history, I must say that to me he looks like the head saint of heaven when compared to George W Bush. This guy is a COMPLETE sociopath - can´t you see this Daniel??  I´m not saying you shouldn´t be focusing on Clinton, but a healthy idea would be focusing on the sitting president perhaps, instead of the former "out-of-power saint-president"??

 With risk of being unpopular by the american part of this forum, I must say that I can NOT understand how the majority of americans don´t seem to see through this guy and his army of zombies? (I am not pointing fingers to the american people, I am just amazed of the enornmous width of the famous phrase "dumbing down of america")
I mean just look at some of the names of the people he put in his administration; convicted Iran Contra felon Elliot Abrams, John Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul O'Neill, Gale Norton, Harvey Pitt, Otto Reich with others.......

He (W) sais he is a believing christian.....  I think many of his actions speaks for itself - if he is a believer, he sure hell isn´t devoted to god !!!
(if you define "god" as "good" which most people do)

Not out to make enemies here, and I don´t say for example swedes are smarter than americans (one can´t generalize like that, and I value all people equally, just wanted to get that out - also I see my self as a global citizen first primarly), but still, what I observe from here overseas going on in america is remarkable indeed.

Be well, Qui-Gon


- Your focus determines your reality -

[MJ-12]

gdg

[Tom]

I voted for Al Gore. Al won the popular vote. It is that stupid "electoral college" system which put George in power. In addition, Florida did not help matters. Too many of them could not vote correctly.

Until very recently, I only heard good things about Clinton. I was happy to hear it when he won his second term. He seemed like such a nice guy from what I saw on tv. I know. Star Trek episodes are on tv, too, and all politicians are supposed to look good on tv.

Is Bob Dole one of the good guys or did he trick me, too?

[Frank]

Daniel: I've always appreciated your posts.

You say, "I am a fairly politically minded person. I can't help it.... so here comes some more of my rubbish".

Therefore, long may you post what you think is rubbish. Because, personally, I think a lot of what you say makes darned good sense. Perhaps what you say here is a bit ahead of its time, but its good sense nontheless.

Yours,
Frank

[ralphm]

Return of the zombies-that was a great article at Renses site. What is really pathetic is the return of Kissenger- and the fact that there is no real outrage at the return of theese dinosaurs. The American people should be rioting in the streets !Did anybody see www.dubyadubyaduby.com ? Maybe there is a nation of real zombies out there!  

[Ides315]

Hey, all

I must say that Clinton is the biggest slim bag American politics has seen in a long time. But as Tom mentioned, he looked good on TV, had a good economy to start with (Notice it started the crash before he was out).

There is more murder and intrigue around them than most mafia dons.

Sad thing is I bought it when he ran for the first term..... Oh well, live and learn.

PS though Gore got the majority of people, W. got something like 3/4 of the states.

My 2cents, prefer to bypass politics.

[ralphm]

oops I forgot the last a- www.dubyadubyadubya.com

[Fenris]

With my ability to be verbose, use jargon and dissolve disputes I could make a very good politician, but alas hating yourself is terribly unhealthy.

- The glass contains fluid equal to half of its potential volume -

[PeacefulWarrior]

Hey Frank, thanks for the kind words!
-------------------------------------
Regarding politics, while I was watching the Godfather Part I the other night, I had an epiphany (is that how you spell that? anyway...)  When Michael (Al Pacino) returns from Sicily he finds his ex-girlfriend and tells her he wants to marry her.  She is afraid because he is in an obviously dubious profession.  She then asks him why he doesn't go into politics or big business and he tells her something to the effect of "And do you think those guys do anything different from what I do?!  They kill more people than my father could have ever dreamed of..."  

Of course there are huge distinctions between organized crime and politics/business, but in the end they all have one thing in common: the pursuit of power/wealth/capital.  As long as these things remain the goals of our societies then EVERY COUNTRY, EVERY POLITICAL REGIME, EVERY PARTY and EVERY INDIVIDUAL leader will, DESPITE their good/original intentions, BE SUCKED INTO THE GAME OF DECIET AND TREACHERY.

I don't really see that much of a difference between Clinton, Gore, Bush or Bin Laden for that matter...but I do tend to side with those people who have, what I personall believe, are more progressive ideals such as democracy, individual freedom, etc.  So in the end, I am a moderate conservative and I am a supporter for Bush, but I too question why there is such a vested interest in Iraq...I think it's BOTH oil and the fact that Saddam is a Hitler style terrorist dictator that will have nuclear weapons soon and won't/isn't afraid to use them.  

You know, my sociology professor (who is a world renound sociologist and has three huge theories in most major textbooks....like anyone cares!) made a GREAT point:

-In the modern world system which is made up of strong core nations (US, Britian, Germany, Japan) and periphery states (Latin America, Africa, Middle-East, etc.) the US moving in on Iraq is actually a very smart move for the US.  Is it right?  NO.  But is anything most states do "right"?  No.  If another country, ie. China was the world Hegemon instead of the US it would do the same thing.

So while Bush might be a bully, in the way the world is set up that's exactly what is the best move....so until things really change, this is the way it is. There have always been hegemons (big, powerful nations), there are always war cycles, cycles of expansion and colonialism.

So it's easy to say, "Bush you bastard!" or chant peace, but what are we really going to do change the fudamental elements of the modern world system that makes such actions beneficial.


fides quaerens intellectum

[Ides315]

Nice view peaceful warrior, I like it.

Jeez, I had a little different take on what W. is up to.  And that was to get Iraq opened up to inspections, and smoke the weapons programs out. I know Bush is a scrapper, that was evident when he was running, but I figured most of the chest thumping and postuering was done to give the show of strength that is required by the dominant culture over there.

If it looked like for a minute that he was going to back down, there would have been no inspectors in the country. That was the lesser of to evils to them. (Him)

They all pretty much have to be shifty, and connected in high and low places to make it there. (presidency) The last few that didn't play the game like that, and made it, or had a chance ended up dead, or ridiculed out of popularity.

2cents

[PeacefulWarrior]

Hey, good post...I like that idea of them having to have friends in high and low places...it's too true.  And you're right, if an honest, upright person were to get into office again "flump!" head shot...sad

fides quaerens intellectum

[PeacefulWarrior]

Core-Periphery Model:                                    
 A spatial-temporal framework for organizing patterns of development into a wealthier, better educated, industrial core region and a poorer, less educated, raw material-producing periphery. The model consists of 4 stages (see diagram), and is used to explain the concentration and deconcentration of development (see polarization effects and trickle-down effects). The model also partly explains development of the core in terms of economic exploitation of the periphery.

My note: as long as the inter-state system dominates world civilization, there will always be a domineering, ruling, oppressive system in place and idiots like Jane Fonda and Sean Penn will complain in foreign lands and then come home to their Hollywood mansions...

fides quaerens intellectum

[PeacefulWarrior]

First of all, I suspect most of you who come into this forum on a fairly consistent basis can see from some of my other posts that I am a fairly politically minded person.  I can't help it.... so here comes some more of my rubbish, so if politics turn you off, or listening to an air bag like me makes you sick, adios!
OK-
I personally don't like most politicians, no matter how much I might agree with their underlying ideologies.  I dislike most politicians for all of many reasons most people don't, but every once in a while there comes along someone so deceptive and evil that it makes me sick.  Ex-President Bill Clinton, despite the few positive contributions he made to the US and the world, is one of those people.  I can't believe how so many people clamor for this man and was aghast to find out there is going to be a Bill Clinton library, an institution dedicated to the deeds of Clinton.  "What in sam hell?!"  I thought, "This nation is sicker than I thought".  Luckily, however, there are others out there like me, who, unlike me, actually have power and influence and are erecting an Anti-Bill Clinton library, here's the scoop:

Plans for ''Counter Clinton Library'' Are Announced
By Marv Essary
Saturday, December 07, 2002
    We've been hearing about the elaborate plans for the Clinton Library scheduled to open in less than two years in Little Rock, Arkansas.  Now it looks like there may be TWO Clinton libraries in that city.
    John LeBoutillier, former congressman from New Jersey and now a nationally syndicated columnist, announced on the Hannity & Colmes TV show on Thursday and on NewsMax.com, plans for the proposed ''Counter Clinton Library'' to be opened near the Clinton's presidential library in Little Rock.  ''The new library,'' he said, ''will present the truth about the Clintons and their years in public life.''
    LeBoutillier stated: ''Clinton's official Presidential Center and Library will be a gigantic public monument to both Clintons, to their 'Co-Presidency,' and to their left-wing political and social agenda--and will conveniently ignore their lawbreaking, scandals, and misdeeds...The Clintons and their acolytes intend to spin their record in the White House--and since--in a never-ending campaign to make Bill and Hillary Clinton the first-ever husband and wife Presidents of the United States.''
    LeBoutillier continued:  ''We--a group of concerned Americans who are appalled at the Clinton's atrocious behavior--have joined together to build--within walking distance of the Clinton Library--a monument to the Real Truth about the Clintons:  The COUNTER CLINTON LIBRARY...Our Counter Clinton Library will be a permanent thorn in the side of the Clintons as they try to hide and distort their anti-American, anti-family, anti-military legacy.''

    His announcement continued:  ''Unlike previous retired presidents who use their presidential libraries to store their memorabilia and offer students and scholars a repository of papers for scholarly study, Bill Clinton is in a desperate race to change his legacy.  He wants to use his library to literally alter his reputation--from one of impeachment and disgrace--to one of respectability and statesmanship.''

    He continued: ''We are devoted to countering--with the truth and with facts--each and every lie, distortion, and exaggeration about his White House years--and also about Hillary's campaign for President.''

     The library will feature ''voluminous research materials--from the Whitewater records to the Special Counsel's Report to the House Impeachment record--which scholars can pore over for years to come to get the real truth about the Clintons.  Certainly these unflattering records will not be available down the street at Bill and Hillary's 'LIE-brary.' ''

    After announcing the project on the Hannity Radio Show and on the Hannity & Colmes show on Fox News Channel, the columnist reported:  ''We have been completely inundated by wonderful e-mailed messages of support from all over the country.  Such an outpouring reminds me of just how many wonderful people there are in this great, great country of ours.''

    He stated that donors to the initial building fund will receive charter membership certificates, bumper stickers reading ''I helped build the Counter Clinton Library,'' and other items.

    To learn more about the project, read ''Letter from the Founders of the Counter Clinton Library'' and ''Launching Anti-Clinton Library'' at:  http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/12/5/113745.shtml
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I will updating this thread as things progress.  





fides quaerens intellectum