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Author Topic: The US Presidential Elections.  (Read 31965 times)
Nagual
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« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2004, 20:21:16 »

Some exit polls from CNN:

Code:
============================================
Most Important Quality        Bush     Kerry
============================================
Will Bring Change (24%)         5%       95%
Strong Leader (17%)            87%       12%
Clear Stand on Issue (17%)     79%       20%
Honest/Trustworthy (11%)       70%       29%
Cares About People (9%)        24%       75%
Religious Faith (8%)           91%        8%
Intelligent (7%)                9%       91%
============================================
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« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2004, 21:47:27 »

bush won

I can honestly say I have never felt more embaressed to be an american than I do right now.
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« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2004, 21:47:27 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2004, 22:11:38 »

I'm am disappointed he won but am glad that I live in one of the States in which Kerry took the lead.
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« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2004, 00:37:15 »

LOL..oh boy, I'm standing all alone with this one.  I would be very interested to know the age of all the Bush bashers...eeks!

Those exit polls are a joke and they shouldn't be allowed to do them anymore, if they can't get it right.  They failed to take into account the people whom voted EARLY!  duh.. and if they are going to do exit polls they really should do it at every poll district, not just the select few whom are swinging towards one group, it gives the wrong impression as Kerry supporters found out.

I for one am extremely happy Bush won another 4yrs..  Kerry scared me.  Everyone is screaming that we are going to be attacked now and perhaps we will, but I can say I have a boat load of more confidence in Bush handling it.  I can also say I think had Kerry been elected we would have POSITIVELY been attacked again, heck those terriost wanted Kerry to get elected..wonder why?  another duh moment.  

On boards across the cyber space are Kerry supporters yelling fowl..but the thing is,  I don't think you all really trusted Kerry anymore then we did, you just hate Bush so much you would vote for anyone else.  Think goodness others saw that Kerry was not the one to pick, perhaps next election?


Here are a few reasons why Kerry just freaked me out..

Diana West helped me see why...

Ever since John Kerry's presidential nomination was sealed with a scream (Howard Dean's), certain revelations about the Life of Kerry have set off buzzers within me that say there's no way this man will be president.

For example: There's no way this man who threw away his medals in protest -- but now says he didn't throw away his medals in protest -- will be president. There's no way this man who promoted a Viet Cong plan for U.S. surrender will be president. Those things.

I'm calling these Kerry Gut-checks, simple facts and personal traits undecideds should think about before they pull the lever.

1) Think about John Kerry's lucky hat. John Kerry keeps an old camouflage hat in his briefcase, The Washington Post reported last year. Kerry says this "good luck hat" was "given to me by a CIA guy as we went in for a special mission in Cambodia."

Forget about the "global test"; this tale one doesn't even pass the smell test. Kerry has repeatedly spoken of his 1968 Christmas in Cambodia ("seared, seared" in his memory, as he said in the Congressional Record), but not one crew member, not even the ones who support him for president, corroborate his story of venturing into Cambodia -- not at Christmas, not ever. Richard Nixon couldn't even have sent him there, as Kerry has claimed, because Richard Nixon wasn't yet in office. There's no evidence, official or even anecdotal, that John Kerry was ever in Cambodia. All of which makes that moldy old hat of his look pretty scary on a potential commander-in-chief.

2) Think of John Kerry's Vietnam re-enactments. When I learned that John Kerry, during his four months in Vietnam, would routinely return with his crew to scenes of skirmishes and re-enact them for a Super 8 camera (or, as his campaign prefers: "return to various locations to film one another"), I really thought the race was over. Sure, the films make ducky campaign footage -- although the part where the ex-naval officer is dressed like an infantryman is plain weird -- but such vain calculation is too hollow for presidential timber.

3) Think of John Kerry's annulment. A little-known fact of Kerry life is the senator's decision to seek an annulment from his first wife of 18 years, Julia Thorne (divorced 1988) in 1996, one year after his second marriage to Theresa Heinz. Julia Thorne, mother of Kerry's two daughters, learned of the annulment proceeding in a letter from a Catholic Church official, and told the Boston Globe in 1997 it was "disrespectful to me, it was aloof to any emotional issues, and devoid of any sense of the humanity of what this means to me and the children." On "Imus in the Morning," former altar boy Kerry joked about the proceeding, adding, "It doesn't affect the status of the child at all. It's just in the eyes of the church."

4) We've all tried to parse John Kerry's indecisive wordiness. But think about his dodgy silence. Bob Woodward has been trying since June to ask John Kerry how he would have fought the Iraq war differently. He even sent his questions to the candidate. "I interviewed President Bush and he answered hundreds of detailed questions," Woodward told Fox's Bill O'Reilly this week. But not Kerry.

5) Think about having a U.N.-poodle for president. There's one thing that justifies the loss of American life, Kerry believes, and that's service to the United Nations, not the United States. "If you mean dying in the course of a United Nations effort, yes, it is worth that," Kerry said in 1994. "If you mean dying American troops unilaterally going in with some false presumption that we can effect the outcome, the answer is unequivocally no." Such non-American thinking puts the nation at risk in a post-9/11 world.

6) Think of John Kerry's supporters. From Kim Jong-Il to Yasser Arafat, from the Tehran Times to the Syria Times, John Kerry has already passed quite a global test.
Recently, Malaysia's former Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad openly urged American Muslims to vote for Kerry. Remember Mohamad? As prime minister, he offered to support the United States and Britain in an international coalition against "terrorism" after 9/11. But only, as he put it, "if they wanted to take action against Israel."
With friends like these, who needs ... a Kerry presidency?

Nay
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Naiad780
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« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2004, 00:37:16 »

Someone mentioned that they couldn't understand why anyone would vote for Bush.  Today I asked a co-worker, a reasonably intelligent academic, why she voted for Bush.  Apparently she and her friends feel that Bush may not be great, but Kerry didn't demonstrate himself to be much of a leader (to them) and they did not feel like he could handle the war in Iraq.  Also, if you are really against abortion, gun control, and gay marriage, you definitely want Bush.

(to be clear, I voted for Kerry)

I am mostly sick of hearing people whine about how they will now move to Canada or somethng to get away from Bush.  Right, a country devoid of opposition, I'm sure Bush would love it, people running away instead of trying to make changes.  *grumble*
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« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2004, 00:37:16 »



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clandestino
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« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2004, 00:50:47 »

Well, I believe that whilst Kerry has certainly told a few fibs in his time, they pale in comparison to Bush's stance on Iraq & weapons of mass destruction.

The biggest lie that the public have been fed in current times, yet no-one seems to mind. (because it affects innocent Iraqis, not innocent US / UK citizens.)

One thing that I find curious. In USA, UK and Australia there was public outrage at our actions in Iraq. We acted against the wishes of the UN. Our governments lied to us. Yet, who remains in power ? Blair, Bush & John Howard.

Obviously, we weren't really that bothered by our unlawful actions in Iraq.
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« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2004, 01:38:30 »

I can understand your position Mark, but in my opinion the media is and has always been very bias when it comes to "liberals and conservatives"  We hear twisted half truths all the time.

War is ugly..it isn't suppose to be pretty.  People loose lives.  If it wasn't for those couragous souls from times past, we wouldn't have the United States we have now!  I for one stand by all those men and women whom have chosen to protect our country and give them my utmost respect, and say thank you for giving your life so others could live free.

And also I've heard from military over seas, and they say hospitals, schools and other things are really looking and functioning so much better!  These are the things not being reported because of the bias news...so sad... because I feel THIS is what is keeping America split.  We never hear about the good things in the main stream media.   God forbid if anyone knew that Bush was actually making things better...

Nay
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« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2004, 01:50:37 »

Both kerry and bush act like children.

"I can handle this war better than you"

"No I CAN handle this war better..."

The reason this war is taking place to begin with is because bush stuck his nose in where it didn't belong, without the UN's permission I might add. I would also like to add that it was proven he ran last years balot, and I believe he ran this years as well. Course at the point it was proven the individuals who proved it were hushed...

I heard that bush wished to get into the presidency simply to get revenge on the middle east because one of his family was killed there....hmmm, why did this war start again?

Also, I am totally against the blurring of the line between church and state... which is the reason he got the vote of the southern countries by my guess.

Well, I gotta watch this guy for another four years, while he says "you can't say anything bad about the US or it's president because we are in a war and doing so will be an act of treason."

I do not think this presidency was meant to be a good one...
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« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2004, 03:12:44 »

Quote from: SpectralDragon
Both kerry and bush act like children.

"I can handle this war better than you"

"No I CAN handle this war better..."

The reason this war is taking place to begin with is because bush stuck his nose in where it didn't belong, without the UN's permission I might add. I would also like to add that it was proven he ran last years balot, and I believe he ran this years as well. Course at the point it was proven the individuals who proved it were hushed...


He ran the ballots?  LOL..for someone whom you all claim is a figgin retard he can do some amazing stuff.  And frankly that isn't true.  The UN had 4 resolutions to do this..starting in 1991.. (don't forget that we were in a cease fire agreement with Irag, the war was not over) They thought it necessary to go in and take action, but of course the news reported differently.

Quote
I heard that bush wished to get into the presidency simply to get revenge on the middle east because one of his family was killed there....hmmm, why did this war start again?
WHAT? someone in Bushes family was killed there, that is news to me!!

Quote
Also, I am totally against the blurring of the line between church and state... which is the reason he got the vote of the southern countries by my guess.

The blurring??? The state does not wish to have the Ten Commandments in their government buildings.  I for one don't think that is the right way to go...I feel the commandments are a great set of rules to live by, no matter what your religion.

Quote
Well, I gotta watch this guy for another four years, while he says "you can't say anything bad about the US or it's president because we are in a war and doing so will be an act of treason."


Honestly I don't get this, did Bush actually say this?  have you looked up the word treason in the dictionary?  Because saying something about it isn't teason, acting on it is.  Kerry in my opinion has acted in a much more "treason" way then Bush ever has, infact Bush has never acted against his country.  Ya'll are sounding like your against your own country, is that not sad to you. ?  Do you want other countries to tell us how to go about our business?  We have always been willing to stick up for other countries..but yet now, they are forgetting... did we not fight for France and Russia in WWII...Have they have all forgotten?


Quote
I do not think this presidency was meant to be a good one...


*sigh*  I'm just sighing from all of the negative talk about Bush.  He won fair and square, yet I understand your pain.  I knew going into this election that some ppl thought Bush might not win..thanks to the exit stupid polls..lol.  If John Kerry said Bush won fair and square...why not come together and make this country good.  Give Bush a chance.  Stop listening to the media.

Nay
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2004, 04:03:07 »

Quote from: Nay
Quote from: SpectralDragon
Both kerry and bush act like children.

"I can handle this war better than you"

"No I CAN handle this war better..."

The reason this war is taking place to begin with is because bush stuck his nose in where it didn't belong, without the UN's permission I might add. I would also like to add that it was proven he ran last years balot, and I believe he ran this years as well. Course at the point it was proven the individuals who proved it were hushed...


He ran the ballots?  LOL..for someone whom you all claim is a figgin retard he can do some amazing stuff.  And frankly that isn't true.  The UN had 4 resolutions to do this..starting in 1991.. (don't forget that we were in a cease fire agreement with Irag, the war was not over) They thought it necessary to go in and take action, but of course the news reported differently.

Quote
I heard that bush wished to get into the presidency simply to get revenge on the middle east because one of his family was killed there....hmmm, why did this war start again?
WHAT? someone in Bushes family was killed there, that is news to me!!

Quote
Also, I am totally against the blurring of the line between church and state... which is the reason he got the vote of the southern countries by my guess.

The blurring??? The state does not wish to have the Ten Commandments in their government buildings.  I for one don't think that is the right way to go...I feel the commandments are a great set of rules to live by, no matter what your religion.

Quote
Well, I gotta watch this guy for another four years, while he says "you can't say anything bad about the US or it's president because we are in a war and doing so will be an act of treason."


Honestly I don't get this, did Bush actually say this?  have you looked up the word treason in the dictionary?  Because saying something about it isn't teason, acting on it is.  Kerry in my opinion has acted in a much more "treason" way then Bush ever has, infact Bush has never acted against his country.  Ya'll are sounding like your against your own country, is that not sad to you. ?  Do you want other countries to tell us how to go about our business?  We have always been willing to stick up for other countries..but yet now, they are forgetting... did we not fight for France and Russia in WWII...Have they have all forgotten?


Quote
I do not think this presidency was meant to be a good one...


*sigh*  I'm just sighing from all of the negative talk about Bush.  He won fair and square, yet I understand your pain.  I knew going into this election that some ppl thought Bush might not win..thanks to the exit stupid polls..lol.  If John Kerry said Bush won fair and square...why not come together and make this country good.  Give Bush a chance.  Stop listening to the media.

Nay


I respect your opinion on this, however some research will show most of what I spoke of above is true Smiley
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« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2004, 05:35:04 »

Thanks for respecting my opinion SD...that really means alot, and I truely mean that.  Smiley

I understand you wanting to do some research, heck that is what it is all about, right?

Nay
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« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2004, 08:27:57 »

Didn't need to be psychic to see that result coming.  Still, it begs the question, what on earth is going on in our world when we elect people who are pro-war and anti-freedom, women, gays, etc?  

I swear, I think John Howard and Bush are using the same PR people, and they in turn have been selected by Murdoch/Fox.

I use to love the forties and fifties, but suddenly, I feel like I am actually living them, nice Christian folk, women at home, men ruling the house and finances, gays don't exist, when did we suddenly agree to step into this time warp.

Damn, I am in desperate need of some laughing gas.   Sad   How else did women survive in the forties and fifties.  rolleyes   wink
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Nagual
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« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2004, 08:41:38 »

From my point of view, people re-elected some kind of Cowboy with a gun in one hand, and a bible in the other...  That's what most foreigners don't understand.  It's a culture clash.  All the "right to carry guns", "strike first and ask questions later", etc...

Anyway, as the saying says: "the robe does not make a man a monk".  All this "God talked to me and blablabla" bullsh*t is really frustrating.  How can people fall for this when you see how many people dies and how much $$$ they put in their pockets???

On the other hand, I can understand (but does not agree with) some of the Bush voters...  After being "bombarded" with "They will attack us!!!", "Terror alert!", "Buy duct tape and keep a room prepared against biological attacks!", "They hate us!!!", "I am the only one able to protect you!!!", "fear!", "watch out!", etc...

They just played "Wag the Dog" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120885/) on TV.  It was an interesting movie...
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« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2004, 09:29:01 »

Iím happy to see that Bush won again not because I like him much as a candidate itís because I really dislike Kerry for many reasons.  Iíll probably always vote republican but hopefully we get a better choice of candidates next time but I wouldnít count on it.
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« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2004, 09:51:21 »

Not surprising from a guy a with a gun as his avatar.
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« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2004, 09:54:28 »

Age of bush bashers?  

No person can really be in anyway advanced or intelligent and still like bush it just isnt possible.
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« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2004, 10:14:10 »

Quote from: goingslow
Not surprising from a guy a with a gun as his avatar.


Yeah, obviously because Kerry is too much of a gun grabber and luckily people didnít fall for him supporting the second amendment.  But there are many other reasons why I donít like him.
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« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2004, 11:46:08 »

Age of Bush bashers? What is the age of Kerry bashers? No I don't want an answer to that, but just because someone says something less than desirable about one candidate then you should not take it as a personal attack and strike back. Neither candidate was "perfect" and one thing that is desirable to one person is not to another. The BS is over. Now is the time to move on. There is no point on dwelling on the past and what could have beens. The important thing now is to try to be more tolerant and come together as a nation. That does not mean to accept views that you don't agree with, but to be tolerant of them. The past year has spawned such tensions to really split this nation. I hope that the people can get over this division and come together. I also hope that Bush will try to unite the US, but he needs to realize that cannot be done with a 'for us or against us" attitude.

I would like to have seen Kerry win because I do think he would have done a better job than Bush. I voted for Bush the first time but have been unhappy with his job performance. But that does not matter now.
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« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2004, 15:27:20 »

Nay-
Speaking for one non-Bush supporter. I want to state clearly that I am not a Bush basher and have never criticized him as an individual. I just disagree with his policies, which I believe are what others here are expressing as well. I also stated before the election that just focusing on the two parties, the vote was simply selecting the 'lesser of two evils'. If I wasn't so strongly against Bush's politics, I would have voted for Cobb, but there was no way that stood any chance.

As for my age, not sure how applicable that is, but I'm 36 (married with 3 kids if you are interested).

And whoever described Bush as a cowboy with a bible in one hand a gun in the other is EXACTLY my perception. I don't believe the most powerful country on the planet should have an individual leading them with a 'my way or the highway' attitude. And this is the feeling I get from him every speech he gives.

In fact, just the opposite is necessary. We need to lead by example. ANd invading a country because it MAY be a threat to our security, is not the way. There were no weapons of mass destruction ever found. But our invasion is still justified because Saddam was a 'bad' person and the people are better off now. I am not stating that Saddam was not a horrible dictator. However, let's be honest about our intentions and not switch stories to justify our actions. If we went in there to remove him for humanitarian reasons, why did we use another excuse? And if that was the sole reason, then why wait so long to do it? Its not like he just came to power recently. There's much more to this than the public knows.

I also think his religious beliefs weigh too heavily on his decisions. I agree that religion can be healthy to have and use as a guide in your life. But there are plenty of examples of extremes in which attacks and killings are made in the name of religion. ANd that is simply abuse. I'm not saying that Bush is on the extreme side, but there is a lot of grey area between those two points, and I think his policies appear to be guided more heavily by his religious convictions than they should be for a man who leads a free country.

While I believe that Kerry did lie (I also believe all politicians twist the truth to various degrees), I also did not like the arrogance in his voice when discussing his medals or his qualifications. I think at times he came off in a condescending way to people. But I think they both came off as bickering like childeren.

I also fully recognize that Bush won by popular vote and electoral vote. And I only remember reading one post in which they stated otherwise.

I simply found it amazing (and slightly scary) that so many americans support his policies.
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« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2004, 19:06:44 »

One of my favourite films of all time is "twin warriors" with jet li. Briefly the story is Li and his buddy get kicked from the shaolin temple they grew up in, and his buddy becomes powerful and evil. But my point - there's a great scene where his now evil brother says "anyone not on my side....must die!!!". Sounded eerily familiar.....

Anyway, my opinion is that bush probably stole the election again, the exit polls are significantly different to the results states with e-voting, but they match when paper voting was used. If this is true it looks impossible to explain away, sorry Nay! And I must also apologise to anyone else here who backs bush for calling him scum, descended from a long line of scum. Bush bashing? Hell yes!

So, anyone want to place any bets on who he'll invade next?

Rob
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« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2004, 21:02:46 »

Quote from: Inguma
One of my favourite films of all time is "twin warriors" with jet li. Briefly the story is Li and his buddy get kicked from the shaolin temple they grew up in, and his buddy becomes powerful and evil. But my point - there's a great scene where his now evil brother says "anyone not on my side....must die!!!". Sounded eerily familiar.....

Anyway, my opinion is that bush probably stole the election again, the exit polls are significantly different to the results states with e-voting, but they match when paper voting was used. If this is true it looks impossible to explain away, sorry Nay! And I must also apologise to anyone else here who backs bush for calling him scum, descended from a long line of scum. Bush bashing? Hell yes!

So, anyone want to place any bets on who he'll invade next?

Rob


Wow..Rob, very mature.. embarassed   The exit polls didn't work well last time either and they won't work properly until they fix the problems they are having with them.  Oh well, I knew I was alone on these boards when it comes to political views, bash away.  Smiley

Nay
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« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2004, 21:11:19 »

I put my bet on..........heck, why not Iran??!!! It quallifies perfectly...and there's always so much to gain from another war...

http://www.antiwar.com/prather/?articleid=3500
http://english.pravda.ru/world/20/91/366/10083_iran.html
http://www.politrix.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1221

and a very interesting discussion from few months ago
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_07/004324.php
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« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2004, 21:47:37 »

My bet is also on Iran - though it may be postponed a bit.

Here's another link of possible interest:
http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1130.htm

It seems people in America want more of the same, and I am sure Bush will be glad to give it to them.


Happy nuclear war.
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« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2004, 21:56:21 »

I love this guy...if you have no strength to cry anymore, atleast have a good laugh..
http://www.michaelmoore.com/
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« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2004, 22:59:30 »

Yeah well Nay, you know me, Mr Mature on a stick with extra fried maturity and a healthy dollop of mature bloke sauce  cheesy
I dunno, there aren't many things which consistently get me angry, but the Bush's are one.

Iran - I dont think Dubya is stupid enough to actually attack a country that might genuinely have WMD's.....is he?? A scary thought.
Rob
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