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What do you guys think of these pictures?

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Was 911 an inside job?

Yes
19 (47.5%)
No
14 (35%)
Dont know
7 (17.5%)

Total Members Voted: 32

WindGod

#25
What do I think of the pictures? They remind me of a very sad event, and I feel sorry for the people still suffering as a result.

I also feel sorry for the 40,000 people killed in auto accidents every year in the US.

I feel sorry for the 4.9 Million deaths caused by TOBACCO worldwide every year.

I really feel sorry for the projected 10 million deaths per year projected for 2030.

You want to complain about something? Why don't you target the Tobacco industry?


Are weather forcasters psychic?

MisterJingo

Quote from: BadCookie on September 09, 2006, 21:33:39
All peaces of the puzzle dont fit in the offical story , its truly disgusting the media is totaly owned by the illumnati the only way to reach the masses. I hope google does not give the govement what then want  8-)

I haven't got time to reply to everything yet, but something I will not agree on is the pentagon conspiracies. please read the following link in full, and at least the following 20 pages. It will answer all your questions:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

MisterJingo

#27
Quote from: Mydral on September 09, 2006, 22:56:37
Jingo please explain to me what other "stuff" is stored in an office building so that it will burn at those temperatures. I never heard of rugs, curtains and paper burning at those temperatures.....
Get some steel, bang it up a bit, then put some cloth and paper over it. Then put gasoline over it. Then put it into a confined space (so the heat will get even more intense). Light it up and keep the fire going with more "curtains, rugs and paper" for the time the WTC burned.... guess what the steel won't melt  :-o :roll:

Well if a standard house fire can reach temperatures of 1000-1100 in a few minutes of starting, why is it so unfeasible to think that a fire fuelled by jet fuel and stoked by winds funnelling through the destroyed sections can reach slightly higher?
Google house fire temperatures, or phone your local fire department if you don't believe this.

Quote
Oh and just listen to eye witnesses..... there was an explosion coming down the elevators, there was an explosion in the basement, etc.

There are a lot of reasons for explosions, as mentioned in other threads recently.

Quote
I know the arguments against this are also strong... but there is more then just that event. Look at the Ibn Laden confession tape, its not even him on it.

I agree there is a lot of very dodgy stuff going on around the periphery of these events. But such things could be people utilising 9/11 to achieve goals that they wouldn't have been able to before it. This happens a lot in the UK, bad events being used to hide slightly less severe events. 

MisterJingo

Quote from: no_leaf_clover on September 09, 2006, 21:16:24
The molten metal in question is from WTC2. WTC2's collapse initiated on the same floor the metal was pouring from.

I haven't really followed these events to be honest. But is there conclusive evidence this substance isn't either ignited jet fuel, or other liquefied substances raining out of the building? Is there anything which proves it has to be molten metal?

Quote
A structural engineer I know and speak to regularly thinks that incendiaries would only have to be placed in the core structure on the mechanical floors, which were reinforced, and provided the above floors with more stability. You may come across engineers describing the WTC Towers as three buildings stacked one on top of another. When you see the light, windowless bands on the WTC Towers, those were the reinforced mechanical floors where each new set of floors would be "stacked" (more like solidly welded across multiple floors; very rigid cores, and very flexible perimeter/truss systems).

Has there been any estimation on how much thermite would be needed, where it would be located, and projected estimates of how long it would take from detonation to collapse? I'd be interested to see anything like that.

Quote
The amount of scholars coming out against the official report is actually pretty staggering, in my opinion. Some 75 professors alone are on board with Scholars for 9/11 Truth alone, and that organization is even lacking the membership of a lot of other relevant people that agree with them, like the structural engineer above that I know personally (he isn't a member of S9/11T for reasons of not wanting to put his job at risk for his opinions -- understandable I suppose), a mechanical engineer that I know (that also isn't a member), researcher Jim Hoffman, LP SE Charles Pegelow, etc.   S9/11T lists its members and their expertises here: http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/WhoAreWe.html

I've read a fair few people are backing such theories – I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

MisterJingo

#29
Quote
The steel wouldn't have to melt, theoretically, but at the same time, even weakened steel won't just up and fail instantly, across a whole floor. Even if a whole floor of columns were heated to 600 C, it probably would not collapse.

Looking at the picture here:



It doesn't seem like uniform collapse, looking at the angle of the falling upper part of the tower. Has there been any kind of estimates on how much of the steel support would have to fail or be weakend to cause collapse – taking into account the sheer tonnage of the upper floors?

AndrewTheSinger

I also thought it was strange when the towers collapsed, but it's a very unusual scenario, the damage to the structure caused by the impact, the weight of the planes, the fires, it's not impossible.

Was the other tower empty? That one that wasn't hit by the planes. If it was then you solved your dilemma.
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

no_leaf_clover

Quote from: MisterJingo on September 10, 2006, 08:35:55
But is there conclusive evidence this substance isn't either ignited jet fuel, or other liquefied substances raining out of the building? Is there anything which proves it has to be molten metal?

If jet fuel were on fire it wouldn't just be glowing. It would be on fire. Same goes for any other hydrocarbons when they burn. Embers glow, but don't glow yellow, or in broad daylight, or slop around like a liquid. Molten steel will do all three.

QuoteHas there been any estimation on how much thermite would be needed, where it would be located, and projected estimates of how long it would take from detonation to collapse? I'd be interested to see anything like that.

Basic thermite would take a few seconds to cut through something, depending on how big it is. Special thermites with chemical additives, like sulfur, barium, etc., are different. Thermites with very small particles of aluminum and iron oxide, called "nano-thermites" or "superthermites", react much more quickly. Added sulfur also makes the reaction take place more quickly. Both of those would also require less thermite, to eat through the same amount of material. Professor Jones offers more information on these substances in his paper (just do a Google search and it should come up quickly).

QuoteIt doesn't seem like uniform collapse, looking at the angle of the falling upper part of the tower.

Here's a picture from later in that collapse:



The top began tilting, then the tilting stopped when the building began falling straight down. This would be when the cutter charges kicked in to allow a very straight collapse. Otherwise, the law of conservation of angular momentum would have held up, and the cap would have continued tilting as it just had been.

QuoteHas there been any kind of estimates on how much of the steel support would have to fail or be weakend to cause collapse – taking into account the sheer tonnage of the upper floors?

I can do some real quick based on the safety factor ratings, if you want. NIST never did them, because doing so would indicate inadequacies in their report. With a safety factor of 5 (the perimeter columns), one column could support five times its max expected live load. With ideal redistribution of weight (ie, via the hat trusses at the tops of the buildings, etc.), you could take out as many as 4 out of every 5 perimeter columns on a single floor before that floor would fail. For the core it was less, with a rating of 2.25 for its columns, averaged I suppose. So that's how you would go about doing it.


Quote from: AndrewTheSinger
Was the other tower empty? That one that wasn't hit by the planes. If it was then you solved your dilemma.

"Empty" how? Structurally empty, or empty of people and floor loads?

It was supposed to have been one of the most reinforced buildings in the world. Instead of all steel like the Towers (allegedly) were (depends on who you source -- designers called the Towers' cores "reinforced" from time to time; makes you wonder), WTC7 was undeniably constructed with a reinforced concrete structure, like most high-rises.
What is the sound of no leaves cloving?

AndrewTheSinger

Empty of people. Because if it was, then they could have exploded that one building since everything was lost already, it would be harmless and profitable (if it's right that you said that they had a 9 billion dollars insurance). Easier to believe than a government planning genocide against it's own people, though it's just as unlikely.

Also, many are forgetting that for the towers to crumble the weight and impact of the plane would just have to destroy a single floor, after one is down then the mass will increase and take one after another, just like seen on the video. Domino effect, not thermite.
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

no_leaf_clover

Quote from: AndrewTheSinger on September 10, 2006, 22:13:23
Empty of people. Because if it was, then they could have exploded that one building since everything was lost already, it would be harmless and profitable (if it's right that you said that they had a 9 billion dollars insurance). Easier to believe than a government planning genocide against it's own people, though it's just as unlikely.

Yeah, it was evacuated, and only one person died. But how many innocents have we killed in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq, to push military campaigns and agendas? Look at the whole Vietnam war. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was faked (as recently detailed in an NSA release), and as a result, millions of people died. In Afghanistan alone, more innocents have died, several-fold, than died on 9/11. What's the difference, do you think? Are Americans too sacred to be killed, just as we're too sacred to send to war? Are we worth more? Less fun to kill? Our military carpet bombs cities in the Mid-East.

It takes time to rig buildings, too. That's the thing with Building 7: if any explosives were placed, they would have to be placed before 9/11. Before the placing, planning has to be done, on paper, as to where everything will have to go to ensure complete destruction, and prevent the building from falling in a wrong direction onto other buildings.

QuoteAlso, many are forgetting that for the towers to crumble the weight and impact of the plane would just have to destroy a single floor, after one is down then the mass will increase and take one after another, just like seen on the video. Domino effect, not thermite.

Take into account the fact that around 80% to 90% of the building fell outwards, and out of the footprints, and the above won't work. If the floors simply fell one onto another, you wouldn't have seen so much crap flying out with such great force the whole way down, without the collapse wave so much as slowing down as it descended on heavier and heavier columns.
What is the sound of no leaves cloving?

AndrewTheSinger

I'm not from Usa. As an outsider I see these acts with great despise. I was speaking specifically about this incident and based on the informations that I've been shown. Maybe if the bombings in Iraq, Lebanon and Afghanistan had the same coverage and impact to the world's eye as the terrorist attack to the wtc some things would start to change for real. This is not a question of Americans and Arabs or Israeli and Palestinian, it's a question of world's health and sanity.
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

AndrewTheSinger

I can tell one thing about all this, that probably no one has said or wants to say, but even then you will know it's true. Suicide rates have increased everywhere in the world after these events, and I'm not talking about suicide bombers.
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

BadCookie

#36




LOL America has bin high jacked but not by people with plastic nives and box cuters
"They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

BadCookie

#37
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13401534/  just in Hugo Chavez says the US may have dun it  ..
"They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

cainam_nazier

Let me ask you this.  YOu say that there were other explosives, and blah, blah, blah. so that the towers would implode rather than fall over.  What would be the point?  If the government, illuminati, or what ever shadow government you want to blame this on, WHY WORRY ABOUT HOW IT FALLS?  Why would they care if they were willing to spend the money and kill the people anyway?  Why?  Why rig it so that it falls straight down doing less damage rather than tipping over and spreading the devistation?

Give a valid reason for that and I might reconsider your point.

BadCookie

#39
Quote from: cainam_nazier on September 16, 2006, 14:18:58
Let me ask you this.  YOu say that there were other explosives, and blah, blah, blah. so that the towers would implode rather than fall over.  What would be the point?  If the government, illuminati, or what ever shadow government you want to blame this on, WHY WORRY ABOUT HOW IT FALLS?  Why would they care if they were willing to spend the money and kill the people anyway?  Why?  Why rig it so that it falls straight down doing less damage rather than tipping over and spreading the devistation?

Give a valid reason for that and I might reconsider your point.
Lets open are minds and take a trip down history lane :-o  this stuff in so interesting to understand why i would recomend watching all parts. I will make a thread about how the FEDs are a privetly held for profit organization that is rapeing the american people
Part Onehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1585562142333161866&q=WTC+1993

Part
twohttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1984095615597363412&q=WTC+1993

Part
three http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7594751368248957785&q=WTC+1993

Part
Four
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3336794743906850633&q=WTC+1993

part
Fivehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2307458672511591841&q=WTC+1993
"They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

BadCookie

#40
Look at how one sided this Neocon Zionist propiganda can be http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1211228663574416724&q=obsession+duration%3Along

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>11 mins "they are anit Zionist and anti american" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Neocon Zionist lap dog lol

A link to a zionist web site http://www.azm.org/
"They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

no_leaf_clover

Quote from: cainam_nazier on September 16, 2006, 14:18:58
WHY WORRY ABOUT HOW IT FALLS?  Why would they care if they were willing to spend the money and kill the people anyway?  Why?  Why rig it so that it falls straight down doing less damage rather than tipping over and spreading the devistation?

I don't think the objective was ever "let's kill as many people and do as much damage as we can!"

Compared to how many people actually worked at the Twin Towers (tens of thousands), not that many actually died in the collapses (not to downplay the number of casualties, just putting into perspective). The planes were also only 1/4 full each, whereas they would normally be full by many accounts. The section of the Pentagon hit was under construction and pretty much vacant. So I mean, as far as a military psy-op of this magnitude, they were pretty efficient, and didn't really kill as many people as they could have, or do as much damage as they could have. Only enough to get the job done, you could say.

And think about it: our military top brass orders to have people killed all the time, in military strikes here and there and what-have-you. It's only the American citizen aspect that seems so unbelievable to us, though we understand and have no problem with them killing so many foreign civilians. "Collateral damage." It's what they do, when it comes down to it. Doesn't mean their whole objective is to only kill people.
What is the sound of no leaves cloving?

WindGod

Quote from: no_leaf_clover on September 11, 2006, 01:57:46
Our military carpet bombs cities in the Mid-East.

LMAO. where did you get this info? I think you're exagerating just a bit.  :wink:
Are weather forcasters psychic?

knightlight

LOL frickin seriously.  No matter how you dice it this is horrible excrement..... Who cares whos responsible.  3000 people died.   Can you comprehend that?  Imagine going to work and the next thing you know your forced to choose either a fiery death of pain or diving swan style out of a 100+ story building and smacking concrete so hard you bounce off creating a snap so loud its like a shotgun.  bonk you.  Its a tragedy no matter how you dice it.  You have your US government milking it for everything its worth and your muslim extremists using it as a spirng board to domination/political goals/whatever and its sickening.  ITS bonking SICKENING.  I sat at work and caught a glimpse of a video clip of a man diving down 100 stories..... flipping around in the air current plummeting to his death.  THATS what its about. 
Profound Impatience makes the blind struggle in Stupidity.

James S

I agree with Knightlight that looking to conspiracy theories or pointing the finger at this organisation or that is not the point. What's done is done! It's in the past now so the best thing we can do is learn from it, and not continually re-hash it looking for some other organisation to blame.

Bottom line, thousands of people died because of beliefs based upon fear. Beliefs that we're right and they're wrong. You choose who we are and who they are, because until we all surrender our fear based beliefs and learn to truly love ourselves and be rid of these  religions and belief systems that propagate fear, then it makes no difference who we are and who they are.

Blessings,
James.

BadCookie

Quote from: James S on September 17, 2006, 07:02:41
I agree with Knightlight that looking to conspiracy theories or pointing the finger at this organisation or that is not the point. What's done is done! It's in the past now so the best thing we can do is learn from it, and not continually re-hash it looking for some other organisation to blame.

Bottom line, thousands of people died because of beliefs based upon fear. Beliefs that we're right and they're wrong. You choose who we are and who they are, because until we all surrender our fear based beliefs and learn to truly love ourselves and be rid of these  religions and belief systems that propagate fear, then it makes no difference who we are and who they are.

Blessings,
James.
Yes but only american lives count  :lol:, The US armed forces have killed more than 100,000 people  :| they dont count
"They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

Enoch

Good stuff bad cookie. Thermite plasma some serious stuff. Uhh ya.
I have no real idea of what happened there. But i do feel a bit strange about the entire thing. the fact we have yet to do one single thing to the guy "responsible" because we had to jump into iraq first was even more whack.
Wish i was still in the military at least to have just a bit more info.
Just dont forget the government is a puppet. They dont even pull the big strings anymore. The wealthiest organizations in the world dont even have the United states as one anymore. It would be the Catholic church and than the top 5 companies in the world that are intertwined so much with secret societies and family names that have been around for so long those are the true source. To bad we did not have a clause in our constitution that says when things get to rediculous the PEOPLE can take over again like its supposed to be. :wink: 
A warrior doesn't seek anything for his solace, nor can he possibly leave anything to chance. A warrior actually affects the outcome of events by the force of his awareness and his unbending intent .

cainam_nazier

That my friend is only a matter of the people all getting tired of the situation at the same time.  There is actually a formal process written into the constitution on how we as a people can request a change of government.

The Present Moment



Look at those large chunks of material shooting away from the building in that small jet of smoke. Where did those pieces of debris come from if the destroyed parts of the building are still 5-6 floors above? Think about it: if it wasn't an explosion that forced that material out the window, then somehow the debris field accelerated through the undestroyed floors and popped out of those two windows.

BadCookie

#49
Another point of view for you http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2032865563019209801&q=WTC+demolition

On this one look closely at you will see a blow out about 25 floors below the collapse http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1798029680029341757&q=WTC+collapse

I have never seen this video before but it gives you a very good look http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2027968455917231364&q=WTC+collapse NO WAY THESE BULDING CAME DOWN FROM FIRE!!  :cry:



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5061514770009171572&q=WTC+collapse WOW thermite visible in this one
"They that would give up essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin