What do you guys think of these pictures?

[BadCookie]

That my friend is only a matter of the people all getting tired of the situation at the same time.  There is actually a formal process written into the constitution on how we as a people can request a change of government.

If it was only that easy

[Enoch]

Although i have some experiance in explosives. I have very little experiance in demolition. So i could say well yes an impact like that would possibly send out other debri from secondary explosions or from massive amounts of concusion. But in the end im only applying what i do know for sure. And like i said no experiance in demolition. 

[BadCookie]

Although i have some experiance in explosives. I have very little experiance in demolition. So i could say well yes an impact like that would possibly send out other debri from secondary explosions or from massive amounts of concusion. But in the end im only applying what i do know for sure. And like i said no experiance in demolition. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px6F8zAhQ1c&mode=related&search=

[Awakened_Mind]

It is important to realize that 9/11 was not just the twin towers. We are also told that a plane crashed into the pentagon. If you look at photos from that day, it is quite evident that a plane did not hit the pentagon. A plane with two 6-tonne engines, wings and a tail leaves nothing more than a single hole? Not to mention there is absolutely no wreckage of a plane at all. Same deal with the plane that crashed into the forest that was "headed for the whitehouse". The way the buildings come down in 9/11 is definately suspiscious but speculating on it is trivial. The facts with the other two are undeniable. There were no planes. Check out this link for a shot of the pentagon http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/pentagon-fire-width.jpg Source out your own as well. There is no plane wreckage, or definite hole where a plane hit. Now if they are dodgy then it creates greater reason to believe that the twin towers were also faked. Or perhaps it was merely a coincidence.

First we invade Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction. Now we are in there to restore peace? Find "terrorists"? Are you seriously buying this? Africa has been starving for decades. What has been done in St Orleans since hurricane Katrina? What about people linving in Columbia? Call me an idiot, but I think the governments agenda revolves around the oil. 9/11 just gave Bush an excuse to invade Iraq.

It is my OPPINION that the Bush Administration is abusing it's power. This is no "War on Terror". This is a fight for the oil. A fight for more power. Regardless of 9/11, there is definately an issue that need to be adressed.

Personally, I find the 9/11 conspiracy theory very convincing. However, the truth will not change. We live in a very scary world if it is true.

[Enoch]

The agenda is more than oil. It was also to create HomelandSecurity. That scares me more than any terrorist. One huge controlling entity...
The ability to destroy the constitution lies with homeland security and its already started with spying on all of us.

[Awakened_Mind]

Indeed. There currently no governments that are ethically responsible enough to run the planet. America seems to be trying though.

[MisterJingo]

It is important to realize that 9/11 was not just the twin towers. We are also told that a plane crashed into the pentagon. If you look at photos from that day, it is quite evident that a plane did not hit the pentagon. A plane with two 6-tonne engines, wings and a tail leaves nothing more than a single hole?

There was a lot more than a hole. Please look at the pictures again. 3 walls of a very heavily reinforced building were penetrated and their internal structures destroyed.

Not to mention there is absolutely no wreckage of a plane at all.

There's lots of wreckage which matches that of the place which hit. Please look at the photos again and you can even compare the pieces.

Please look at the following link and read at least the first 20 pages if you want to find the truth rather than a conspiracy:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

A lot of conspiracy sites and movies either miss out entire areas of evidence and facts, and either purposefully misinterpret facts to fit their agenda or downright lie. I've even seen one video of the plane hitting the pentagon had been edited to back up one 'theory'.

While there might be a lot of misinformation out there, and we might not have received the whole truth. A lot of conspiracy theories are bending a few facts to fit their story and leaving a lot out. Anyone who is interested in the truth, keep an open mind and read all the facts out there – this might require some searching as it's scattered about all over the net.

[Awakened_Mind]

Having read all the facts, what do you think MasterJingo?

[Enoch]

The problem is finding facts. If you believe that it was a terrorist attack or not. Anyone can say "this is what happened" and its still just a made up lie. In reality who cares? Does it advance you as a person in any way whatsoever to know? Can we do anything about it even if it was a hoax by our own government to create homelandsecurity Hell no we cant. The entire problem lies with there being people that think we need to classify information as classified, secret, top secret...LOL what a load of excrement. The only things that should be allowed covered up in this whole damn world is IMMEDIATE military plans period. What because we are not part of the government  we cant handle the truth, we are just young children that need our hands held. Classified information is bull excrement. There should be NO secrets from the general population and if there are the people responsible need to be in prison. Hell even this is a waste we need an entire new system a complete overhaul. The wicked, materialistic, greedy, rulers have gone on long enough. Any time you can apply all ten commandments and all seven deadly sins to your government and say yes they have broke all of them...its time for change...So this one incident this new bovine excrement is just another drop in a bucket that has overflowed long ago. I pray for all the 9-11 victims and its unfortunate that we live in such a dishonost society we cant just mourn for them and take the PROPER steps to eliminate the people who did it....We cannot find bin laden my butt. We can see a dime from space and read the date. and we cannot find him? BS.   

[Awakened_Mind]

Enoch, I enjoyed reading that. Cheers.

-Awakened_Mind

[no_leaf_clover]

If you look at photos from that day, it is quite evident that a plane did not hit the pentagon.

I wouldn't be so sure. I used to think the crash scene there looked awfully funny too, but then I found videos online of government and NASA tests (but what's the difference? ), like one where they sent some jet into a concrete wall at hundreds of miles per hour.

The plane totally disintegrated.

Here's a video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5810017935113152604&q=jet+concrete+wall&hl=en

On 9/11, similar jet could have impacted the Pentagon, which had a facade constructed of reinforced concrete, truck-bomb resistant, at several hundred miles per hour. Again, watch the video I just linked to. Total destruction. The engines, the heaviest parts of the plane that should have made it the farthest, would have busted the facade if anything, and mostly likely did if there was a plane (notice the lowest damage extends only so far as the engines would have, approximately), but other than that, the rest of the body of a 757 is thin aluminum, titanium bars in the wings, etc. Nothing that wouldn't be totally messed up in an impact like that.

[Awakened_Mind]

I have a great respect for opposing oppinions. Without them, mine have no meaning. The evidence in that video is a very sound argument, it makes the pentagon imapct seem more plausible. What actually happened to the pentagon on 9/11 is still ambiguous. It would be so much easier if the government released the footage from the 3 surveilence cameras they conviscated (to assist in investigation) to the internet.

Pentagon aside. What do you suppose happened to the plane that was headed for the white house and crashed into the forest? Many planes have smashed into mountains, forests, the ground etc before and left a significant amount of debree.

9/11 as I said remains ambiguous. What is clear though Enoch pretty much emphasized.

-Awakened_Mind

[Arn de Gothia]

No plane crashed in the forrest, coz no plane were found, however they found a huge crater wich was caused most probably by a missile. I have heard that there were fiberoptic cable on that spot. Now why would anyone want to destroy underground fiberoptics?. Cut off transactions perhaps. Maybe there is an invisible war going on between the NWO gang and an opposing force. If that is so then we might have a chance escape total enslavement.

[no_leaf_clover]

Hey Arn,

Got any sources for the fiber optic cable running through where the crater was?

If there was one, I doubt it was to cut off any transactions or anything, as it wouldn't be hard to find another way around a downed cable, and data would probably just be re-routed around and get to where it was going anyway. If this fiber optic cable wasn't linked between any two public LANs or LANs with internet connections, I wouldn't be surprised.

Here are jet crashes.



The fireballs/resulting fires from jet crashes (for a while, anyway) are very fuel-rich, for obvious reasons. Remember the WTC and Pentagon impact photos? Those would be fuel-rich explosions, from so much jet fuel. Produces thick black smoke, flame, all that.

These, on the other hand, are clouds produced from ordinance blasts:



And here's a photo taken by a Pennsylvanian on Sept. 11:




Ordinance blasts are set on the ground, which is why your statement of there being fiber optic cables running through there is interesting to me. Any sources for it would be appreciated.

[Arn de Gothia]

http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/united-93-coverup-cia-pentagon-psyops-exposed

I didn't find anything about the fiberoptics but i'm sure I read it somewhere, don't remember where.
The above link points out  some good stuff tho

[Awakened_Mind]

I think if the concern of this issue grows strong enough there will be an independent inquiry instead of just speculation. Something that is a little more conclusive surely would have to be undertaken. September 11, IMO, has worked more in the favor of America than Alqaeda. I'm sure they are losing more men and are no where near as confident in victory as an army funded by tax dollars of an entire country.

Why would someone believe that bombing America is in no way going to provoke an attack? Isn't the whole reason they are taking such extreme measures because we "invade" their country for no reason? I mean they are not targetting people in Antarctica are they. This isn't some extermination of all who do not believe in Ulla. So what is giving us a reason going to do? Out matched in strategy, weaponry and finance... what the hell are these people thinking anyway? Trying to sneak explosives onto a plain after a huge increase in airport security after 9/11!?

Whatever the truth is, I don't know which is harder to believe. The fact that a government would ever commit such a crime against it's own, or the stupidity of these terrorists.

-AM

[sagetab]

I am in South Africa but on the day, 9/11, I watched with horror on CNN LIVE, which we used to get here back then B4 satellite TV arrived. There was one thing I DID notice. One shot that was repeated over and over again was the one where the first plane hit that was taken by a member of the public on his vid cam. I was struck by the fact that, as he panned the cam to look at the plane coming down, I saw LOTS of emergency personnel there. Now, what were they doing there BEFORE the fact??? That struck me as odd.... (and later I heard the story that the US Gov had been warned but chose to ignore the warnings... so....).
Were they there because they knew beforehand??? How did they know??? Lots of questions and not enough answers and I guess we will never know the full truth... (well, at least for 100 years, anyhow...

[no_leaf_clover]

Haven't heard anything about first-responders being there early, but FEMA was there on 9/10. Same agency that gets chewed for being so tardy with Katrina is a day early for 9/11, apparently. This is according to Giuliani's testimony to the 9/11 Commission, and has been confirmed by FEMA itself if I'm not mistaken, that there was supposed to be a bio-terror "drill" in Manhattan on Sept. 12, so FEMA arrived on Sept. 10th and started setting up a command center, which they then immediately put into use the next morning. Of course, after the collapses, the area was closed off, all steel and other criminal evidence was made off-limits, photo and video were confiscated (some ten thousand + pics and vids of the day still not released to this day), construction drawings for the buildings and other valuable information put under lock and key or destroyed or scrapped and sent to China.

Pretty coincidental on its own, but also consider that NORAD also had several wargames that morning, before the attacks, that redirected interceptors from the Northeast to over Canada and Alaska, and wargames that confused RADAR operators and other NORAD and FAA individuals, preventing scramblings and interceptions of planes that would have otherwise have been physically tracked (with interceptors) ASAP, as per SOP. And, an NRO exercise that morning simulating a plane flying into their HQ building, not too far from the Pentagon, which also caused much confusion that morning.

Pretty wild coincidences, right?

[sagetab]

I do not believe in coincidences... question answered??? 

[malganis]

Haven't heard anything about first-responders being there early, but FEMA was there on 9/10. Same agency that gets chewed for being so tardy with Katrina is a day early for 9/11, apparently. This is according to Giuliani's testimony to the 9/11 Commission, and has been confirmed by FEMA itself if I'm not mistaken, that there was supposed to be a bio-terror "drill" in Manhattan on Sept. 12, so FEMA arrived on Sept. 10th and started setting up a command center, which they then immediately put into use the next morning. Of course, after the collapses, the area was closed off, all steel and other criminal evidence was made off-limits, photo and video were confiscated (some ten thousand + pics and vids of the day still not released to this day), construction drawings for the buildings and other valuable information put under lock and key or destroyed or scrapped and sent to China.

Pretty coincidental on its own, but also consider that NORAD also had several wargames that morning, before the attacks, that redirected interceptors from the Northeast to over Canada and Alaska, and wargames that confused RADAR operators and other NORAD and FAA individuals, preventing scramblings and interceptions of planes that would have otherwise have been physically tracked (with interceptors) ASAP, as per SOP. And, an NRO exercise that morning simulating a plane flying into their HQ building, not too far from the Pentagon, which also caused much confusion that morning.

Pretty wild coincidences, right?

I read about that. Seems that terrorists penetrated the whole system 

[whiterose]

So who was responsible and why?

[no_leaf_clover]

So who was responsible and why?

Check this out, from Mike Ruppert, a former LAPD investigator and whistleblower of the corruption he encountered from various intelligence agencies in LA.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&q=truth+lies+9%2F11

It's over two hours, but he presents a lot of information. "Why" is a question that requires an historical background coming from the end of the Cold War.

[whiterose]

mmmm, not convinced.  There's always a bottom line - as in bottom line who? and bottom line why?.  It seems to me that exponents of this theory are just throwing masses of information into the pot making it impossible (maybe deliberately so) to maintain a sense of clarity.  I'm no idiot but I think it would be possible to spend weeks or maybe months sifting through supposed evidence, without coming any closer to finding my bottom line.

[no_leaf_clover]

Well why not spend two hours on that video then?

What it ultimately comes down to is the US needed to be in the Mid-East to support its economy, immediately. The justification for this, what allowed us to IMMEDIATELY go to the Mid-East with new, supermassive military budgets and reasons to spend galore, was 9/11. The economy was sliding in the months before, certain illegal industries were faltering because of Taliban involvement in Afghanistan (this is where Ruppert comes in, he's an ex narcotics officer and investigator), and needed to be secured.

Since the US invasion of Afganistan, and later Iraq, not only has our military budget skyrocketed, military and oil corporation profits skyrocketed, but opium production supporting BILLIONS of dollars in illegal drug trade has risen in Afghanistan by some 9000% or more, since the Taliban began killing off opium in late 2000. It comes back to money, and keeping our economy afloat.

It was said by PNAC: We needed a new Pearl Harbor.

It was said in the Grand Chess Board: Americans needed to perceive an immediate external threat to justify Mid-East occupation.

We got it.

Even if you don't think the government itself did it (I think patsies WERE involved), there were MANY warnings, specific warnings, from Russia, the Mossad, etc., saying terror attack, soon, WTC. All ignored. Put options on UA and AA. Ignored. All of these things suggesting insider knowledge, foreknowledge, IGNORING the forewarnings.

Again, watch the above video.

[whiterose]

Afghanistan seems to be a bit of a smoke screen in all this.  It seems to me that if America really did feel that it desperatley had to get a massive military deployment in the middle east increasing defence budgets etc etc.. then it wouldn't have needed a war on terror, but could simply have used it's pretext for invading Iraq, WMD,s.  Anyone with half a brain knows that trying to link Iraq with Islamic fundamentalists wouldn't stand up to scrutiny, indeed a Saddam led Iraq is probably the last place they would be welcome, but many people believed Saddam did have WMD's.  So would a manufactured war on terror really have been needed as a pretext? I don't think so.