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Author Topic: why become a vegetarian?  (Read 7853 times)
Adrian
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« on: May 21, 2003, 17:05:23 »

Greetings Lysear,

I have been vegetarian for some time, and for much the same reasons as you. I also do not drink alcohol or caffeine of any sort.

I believe we reach a stage when we realise that all life is one, a part of "The All", that eating any meat is akin to cannibalism [Smiley]

Notwithstanding that, we must respect all life as our equal, and the way in which meat is farmed and processed is largely disgraceful. Consider if another species was dominant, and they farmed, processed and ate humans in the same way as humans treat other animals today.

I realise of course that plant life is also Spirit,and that arguments can and will be made that is wrong to eat plants, but plants do not suffer in the same way as animals, and I believe that we are intended to be vegetarian anyway.

Also for those aspiring to project and pursue other spiritual activities - meat, alcohol and caffeine are very negative indeed, and take months of detoxification to remove them from the system.

With best regards,

Adrian.
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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2003, 19:54:53 »

how is meat negative? how does it effect your projection? i can see how alcohol might, if you've had a lot.. a lot of people use caffeine to stay awake.. but whats meat do?
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« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2003, 19:54:53 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Fenris
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2003, 06:20:40 »

Hi everyone

I must admit I have some doubts about some of the common views on vegetarianism, I don’t think people think about their motivations enough. While I do understand that the foods we eat and the things we put into our body have a great effect on our more subtle bodies – and by removing meat there is potential for a positive effect, some other things don’t add up. Not that the above point alone isn’t enough to justify becoming a vegetarian.  

Firstly there is of course the old anatomical and physiological argument, we all know it – the arrangement of our teeth, the workings of our bowel, natural hunting instinct, having eyes on the front of our head – the list goes on. It can not be denied that the human is not designed to kill animals and eat meat.  

Secondly something that comes to my own mind that is harder to describe and argue – but ill try. Within the contemporary attitudes held by the majority of people actively seeking spiritual progression seems to be either linear or continuous/cyclic ideology. Earth and nature based religions emphasise the continuing cycle of life. My own experience here is with Wicca, where I began my own spiritual and metaphysical journey. Scrap the popular new age very wide paint brush attitude of la de da de dar oh the animals am I a wiccan or do I belong in Green peace attitude – which I argue while holding legitimate moral grounds is void of the meaning behind a true earth religion. So instead of nature loving – it should be a case of nature understanding, and of course loving and respecting. A person who understands the cycle of life and tries to live it as much as is possible (wiccan worship) will see that it is natural to kill and eat an animal.

Then you have linear spiritualism – ultimate evolution. Rather than embracing the cycle of life and living it – we try to grow and move away from life. Be you Christian of ceremonial magician you look forward to the next world and losing this hellish mortal coil. Learn our lessons as fast as we can and lets be done with this place right? Many people from this school if they think about it see reincarnation not as a process to be embraced – but like high school, you do it till you graduate and then move on to better things, if you have to do an extra year it is a failure on your part.      

So don’t delude yourself, if you don’t eat meat because you are trying to not rack up bad karma, or you want a healthy energy body to help you evolve-excellent – but see this as your motivation. If you don’t eat meat out of protest of how animals are treated, this is also good, but understand it is perfectly natural for man to farm animals, our strength is our intelligence. We are dominant, we kill and so goes on the cycle of life – this is understanding nature. But the idea that it is just ‘wrong’ to eat meat or not natural, being that we are intended to not eat meat is very flawed.


Best regards
David
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Lysear
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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2003, 12:17:30 »

I'm not so sure about one of your arguments, the one about how we are designed to eat meat. There are plenty of areas of the human which are obsolete, parts that older incarnations used, but that are not needed anymore, perhaps the bits that make us carnivorous are now obsolete? just a thought.
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2003, 12:44:10 »

I remember a thread where Adrian put you have to give up caffeine and alcohol etc in order to spiritually progress.  To me that type of thinking is more "if I do A + B " and live a certain way i'll be enlightened and progress.  In that way I think that type of thinking is deeply religious and dogmatic.  

But as far as not eating meat I guess you have to find your own reasons.  Saying its cannibalism is really elitism and many vegitarians (most) are from of course first world countries and countries where people can afford to go out and buy all these supliments.

There are many countries and nations where they depend on meat to survive so I think its incredibly elite and "spiritually advance" ist?  to go around saying its wrong and akin to Cannibalism.  Thats crap there are people who still hunt to survive.  Not in america or I guess in the "Isle of Man" but there are countries like this. I guess they're just barbaric though.. to kill their own to eat.  

hmmm

some reasons are more valid like you dont agree with the fact we use all the grain, grain that could feed most of the hungry population to feed cattle.  Or the fact China who of course has many starving people got the "taste of beef" mostly from us and uses more of its grain for cows which of course dont feed half as many people as the grain itself would.

Things like that okay.. I think most people would understand.  But start talking about how its cannibalism and i think you're better off just telling people you're doing it for your heart.  

 


take care.
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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2003, 12:44:10 »



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BDHugh
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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2003, 18:36:42 »

Hi Arian.

quote:
Originally posted by Adrian




Notwithstanding that, we must respect all life as our equal, and the way in which meat is farmed and processed is largely disgraceful.



I disagree. Smiley Here in the States, the way domesticated animals are slaughtered are arranged with absolute minimal suffering. For example, cattle will have a metal knob that is shot through the skull. Poultry will have their necks sliced or heads cut off. I believe it to be pretty difficult for any animal to realize whats happening to them before they are killed much less any suffering. As far as living conditions go, the condition of the animals for ranchers is all about the $, so the worser the condition the less amount of profit the rancher will receive because all slaughtered animals are inspected for commerical uses.

quote:

I realise of course that plant life is also Spirit,and that arguments can and will be made that is wrong to eat plants, but plants do not suffer in the same way as animals, and I believe that we are intended to be vegetarian anyway.



I agree that everything is Spirit, however humans first started out as hunter / gatherers. Meat was a fundamental part of the diet. Also, we ourselves are part of the food chain. Microscopic organisms can cause human suffering even while we are alive.

quote:

Also for those aspiring to project and pursue other spiritual activities - meat, alcohol and caffeine are very negative indeed, and take months of detoxification to remove them from the system.



I agree with the alcohol and caffeine part if only taken in small quantities. However for meat, some active individuals need meat. For example athletes, bodybuilders, or people who just want to stay and relatively good physical health. And we all know that a healthy body is a healthy mind. Smiley

Take care,

Brandon
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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2003, 22:37:40 »

thanks bd. [Cheesy] i was always led to believe conditions were much worse, so i thank of you for pointing those things out.
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« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2003, 23:33:19 »

Then what is up with Tofu "burgers"  Soy "burgers" [?]

Why do they call them "Burgers" if not to make it sound more appealing?...hmmmmmmm

I didn't kick, scratch, and claw my way to the top of the food chain to dine on plants...

But that just me..[Wink] Nay.
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James S
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« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2003, 02:17:36 »

I'm not even going to start looking into the spiritual/ethical aspect of my diet. Too fuzzy!

I consider it all personal choice. We were designed to be omnivores, but we were designed to be able to exist on whatever food sources we could find, when we could find them.

For most of us here, hunting/gathering consist of gathering your money together then tossing cans & bags of food in a shopping basket, and hunting for the weekly specials or for your favourite brand of tea that the supermarket just doesn't seem terribly interested in keeping in reasonable quantitiies.

For some living in third world countries I can guarentee that the parts of the human body that are designed to digest meat are far from obsolete. In fact they've probably evolved to be able to digest old shoes if there are any to be found.

In the western world, where food is abundant, especially fatty fast foods, being a vegetarian will at least ensure you won't die from illnesses relating to high cholesterol, and I've yet to see an obese vegitarian. On the other hand, you wont see many vegetarian athletes who don't take some sort of protien suppliment to make up for the fact that they don't eat meat. It's all a matter of balance.

James.
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Adrian
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2003, 12:22:11 »


Greetings BDHugh,

quote:
Originally posted by BDHugh
I disagree. Smiley Here in the States, the way domesticated animals are slaughtered are arranged with absolute minimal suffering.



With respect, I think you have missed the point somewhat [Smiley] It is not how these unfortunate creatures meet their physical end, regardless of whether they suffer or not, but rather how they suffer before that time arrives as well, and their lack of freedom. Battery Hens are an example of lifelong cruelty, and the way animals are often transported is cruelty which falls into the same category.

At the final analysis, we have to transcend the view that the beings humans like to eat are mere "animals". That is like calling a person a "mere human". They are rather equal aspects of "The All", Universal spirit, who have every bit as much right to be here, and live a normal physical life as part of their own path, as so called humans, and without any unnatural interference. Humans will always come up with any number of egocentric arguments as to why it is alright to farm and kill animals - and all because they cannot stand the thought of a life without eating the flesh of what they perceive as lower life!

The absolute fact is this - whenever a human kills any creature, or destroys a part of the environment - they are in fact killing or destroying a part of themselves - and everyone else. We are ultimately equal - Spirit - part of the Great Spirit, and there is only one law. These are the less well known reasons why eating meat will affect Spiritual progression, not to mention the organic factors.

With best regards,

Adrian.
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Lysear
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« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2003, 13:52:57 »

we have to eat something, that is a fact. In that case, what is the difference between eating meat or plants, your killing a part of yourself either way. this is where I get lost on your argument Adrian.



"The absolute fact is this - whenever a human kills any creature, or destroys a part of the environment - they are in fact killing or destroying a part of themselves - and everyone else. We are ultimately equal - Spirit - part of the Great Spirit, and there is only one law. These are the less well known reasons why eating meat will affect Spiritual progression, not to mention the organic factors."




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BDHugh
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« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2003, 17:56:35 »

Hi Adrian.

quote:
Originally posted by Adrian


Greetings BDHugh,

With respect, I think you have missed the point somewhat [Smiley] It is not how these unfortunate creatures meet their physical end, regardless of whether they suffer or not, but rather how they suffer before that time arrives as well, and their lack of freedom. Battery Hens are an example of lifelong cruelty, and the way animals are often transported is cruelty which falls into the same category.



With mutual respect, I'm not really sure how a *domesticated* animal perceives freedom. What is your take on this? For my definition I see them as being not a part of the wild, therefore freedom is irrelavant. If you mean the condition they are in then like a said before it is going to be the profit which is the determining factor in how they will treat animals. For example, I have seen dairy cows sleep on water beds! These animals get better treatment than humans around the world.


quote:

At the final analysis, we have to transcend the view that the beings humans like to eat are mere "animals". That is like calling a person a "mere human". They are rather equal aspects of "The All", Universal spirit, who have every bit as much right to be here, and live a normal physical life as part of their own path, as so called humans, and without any unnatural interference.



The thing is, is that it is natural for interference from humans. Just it is natural for some animals to interfere with plant life which is also an equal aspect of "The All". Are you trying to say plant life is below animal life, but animal is equal with human life? How can this be when "The All" are all equal aspects of each other.?

quote:

The absolute fact is this - whenever a human kills any creature, or destroys a part of the environment - they are in fact killing or destroying a part of themselves - and everyone else. We are ultimately equal - Spirit - part of the Great Spirit, and there is only one law. These are the less well known reasons why eating meat will affect Spiritual progression, not to mention the organic factors.



In a way, it is fact, but it does not mean it is negative by any stretch of reasoning. Yes, I've read the Kybalion and know all about the universal laws and how "The All" is mind. Spiritual development is not achieved through alternative eating habits and lifestyles, but through balance.

Take care,

Brandon
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Adrian
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2003, 19:07:13 »

Greetings BDHugh,

I have to say that I have never seen dairy cows sleeping on water beds before [Smiley] But notwithsanding that, we are still talking about life here, even if animals live in an environment that has been artificially created by humans. Ultimately, these creatures are going to have their lives terminated for no other reason than to satsify human appetites.

How would you feel as a human if you were provided with a penthouse and other luxuries, but on the condition that someone could shoot you through the head and eat you at some time in the near future?

The fact is - all life is sacred - just as much so as humans regard their own lives.

I would agree that plants are also life, but I personally believe, that humans were always intended to eat plants as part of our evolution. Our digestive systems completely agree with that.

The ultimate problem is, because man sees itself as seperate from the environment instead of a part of it, mankind deems it perfectly right and proper to cause wanton destruction against wildlife, forests, and the environment generally where mining and industry are concerned for example.

At the final analysis, and in answer to your other question, the Universe has provided for a natural order as you suggest. I would suggest however that whereas all other life conforms to, and lives within the parameters of their natural order, mankind has abused it terribly and continues to do so.

I have to say, with respect, that rather than admit these things, mankind finds it easier and more convenient to justify eating animals, destroying the environment and in many cases even treating fellow human beings badly.

With best regards,

Adrian.
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Adrian
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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2003, 19:20:41 »

Greetings Lysear,

quote:
Originally posted by Lysear

we have to eat something, that is a fact. In that case, what is the difference between eating meat or plants, your killing a part of yourself either way. this is where I get lost on your argument Adrian.




I am referring to the natural order of things in accordance with evolution of the Universe and harmony with Spirit.

As I have said before, all life, except humans, lives in perfect harmony within their intended environment in accordance with the natural order of the Universe. Humans on the other hand has deemed it necessary to cause havoc and destruction in many areas, including, but not limited to, treatment of animals, the environment and very often each other. Where life lives in harmony with its environment, and survives as nature intended, there are no greater Universal issues. I happen to believe that man was never intended to treat animals in the way it does for food. Information from the higher spheres confirms this to a large extent. The main problem with mankind is that it is living competely out of harmony with Spirit in almost every respect, and which has to be turned around.

With best regards,

Adrian.
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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2003, 20:58:16 »

I became a vegetarian the beginning of this year....

my reasons came basically from an issue of Adbusters (journal of the mental health environment)

this issue discussed the process of slaughtering animals etc...
it is NOT a clean and easy process....

"... by the time a broler cihcken is ready for the slaughterhouse, it is most likely too obese to lift its body off the ground (due to intensive weight-gain programs: no exercise and constant food, the latter laced with antibiotics and pesticides). the birds are far from healthy. after interviewing 84 government inspectors, one reporter wrote that every week, millions of chickens "leaking yellow pus, stained by green feces, contaminated by harmful bacteria, or marred by lung and heart infections, cancerous tumors, or skin conditionsare shipped for sale to consumers."

".... First though, they need to be killed. trucked to the slaugherhouse in crates, the chickens are removed and hung by their feet from metal shackles. next, they're dunked in a bath of electrified water meant to paralyze the birdes so they dont feel the mechanical knife that slits their throats. the dunk tank invariably misses birds, so some hit the knife white fully conscious. a handful more miss both the bath and the knife, and go alive to the next station, the scalding tank, where the bird is softened for defethering."


.... so with that in mind, i basically did it because i was disgusted as to how the chicks are prepared for shipping, killed as well as the condition some of them are in. i would go on to talk about other forms of meat but you can check out the adbusters issue number 44 NOV/DEC 2002 try ordering it on www.adbusters.org


i eat morning star products like it's my job... all soy based. taste just like chicken with more protein and less fat.


oh and another thing, when you eat meat and become "full" you have a sick like feeling in your stomach/throat... being a vegetarian and becoming full is a much more natural (less "sick") feeling. that was the first thing i noticed.
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2003, 22:20:48 »

thats interesting, sublime...

im not really worried about getting sick from nasty meat, i've eaten meat like most other people for most all my life and i've never gotten food poisoning. but that morning star stuff does sound healthier, and the way you described being full sounds tempting..

ill have to try morning star stuff sometime and see what i think. ill have to have some sort of huge revelation or something to give up meat completely, since i live in the south and meat's a big part of the culture i was raised with, but i might decide to eat healthier things (that don't taste sickening.. i tried those nutrition bars once and they were truly horrible) when i can.
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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2003, 23:05:59 »

you see, that's funny. ive never had a sick feeling after eating meat.
we evolved from apes. apes eat mean sometimes. i dont think we should eat meat every meal of the day, but in small 'doses' it is perfectly fine. meat has all this fat in it, anyway.
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« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2003, 23:47:33 »

i think what sublime was referring to was when you eat too much, and feel sick to your stomach, in this case with meat. have you ever tried the products he's talking about? if not then you can't really argue that he's either right or wrong toward that feeling.

we didn't just simply evolve from apes. though our ancestors evolved directly from apes, the closer they came to homo sapiens, the stranger things got evolution-wise. to this day, scientists are puzzled as to where exactly we came from, and why our genes changed so much in so little time evolution-wise. just in a blink of an eye, we lost all hair, our body structures changes, etc., etc. science can't explain why we aren't still using rock tools and living in caves. scientifically, we should be in caves at this very moment. but we're reading off of an online forum. we went from an airplane to orbitting around earth in less than 50 years. do we gain intelligence exponentially as we evolve? of course not. we've came too far, too fast, and there's no explanation that's readily acceptable without the help of religion.
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Adrian
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« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2003, 18:03:45 »

Greetings Lysear,

You will not find the solution to the mystery of the evolution of modern man in religious texts - we have a far "higher" origin.

The most recent theory regarding modern man is that they mutated from other pre-cursors in Southern Africa, and subsequently colonised the world. Unfortunately, no one has explained how modern man appeared simultaneously in almost all parts of the world from the Arctic to the Antarctic, all with modern day like intelligence, and all with slightly differing physical characteristics, e.g. colour of the skin.

The original homo sapiens who evolved in Southern Africa would have hardly been capable of thinking about or making dug out canoe's, much less highly sophisticated dea going boats capable of travelling across the world dangerous seas as far afield as Greenland, the America's, Australia, China, Japan etc. etc..  Think about it!

Anthropologists, like many scientists, have a habit of selecting only those aspects of their discoveries which fit their theories.

As for vegetarian food - I would heartily recommend Quorn:

http://www.quorn.com

Quorn is not processed soya, tofu etc.it is rather a whole range of very tasy, protein and fibre full dishes and bases, manufactured from a special cultivated fungus. The food is varied and very tasty indeed. It has been available in the UK (where it is made) for years, and is now available in the USA. Quorn, with sun ripened cereals and fresh fruit is, I would suggest, and extremely healthy and varied diet, not to mention the moral, ethical and Spiritual considerations.

With best regards,

Adrian.






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« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2003, 22:33:22 »

The fact is until (at most) a millenia or so ago almost every human and their descendent relied on meat as their prime form of food. Because of this human bodies have grown to require the iron and supplements that meat provides. Only on a very, very careful vegeterian diet can you replicate what meat provides.

In almost all scientific studies conducted vegetarians are more likely to die younger, contract more diseases/cancers, age quicker and generally be less healthy than their meat eating counterparts. I am not saying that you can be a healthy vegetarian - you can be - it's just very difficuilt and expensive, making it a choice very few take up.

The animals conditions, at least in New Zealand, are very very good. Farmers recognise that you need happy animals to provide good meat and so many steps are being taken to increase the happiness of the animals. A recent development in some of the NZ slaughterhouses sees all animals put in blackout rooms before theyre slaughtered as it calms them after their road journey.

The other fact is if we didn't eat the animals we wouldn't breed them. Isn't it better to have life than no life? You might argue that breeding them for only our own satisfaction is selfish. Is their life not satisfying? If you were able to communicate with the animals and ask them "would you rather exist or not?" what do you suggest they would say? The answer, I suggest, is obvious.


Ashfo
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Adrian
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2003, 12:04:16 »

Greetings Ashfo

quote:
Originally posted by Ashfo

The fact is until (at most) a millenia or so ago almost every human and their descendent relied on meat as their prime form of food. Because of this human bodies have grown to require the iron and supplements that meat provides. Only on a very, very careful vegeterian diet can you replicate what meat provides.



I have to respectfully completely disagree with you on these points [Smiley] Man was originally vegetarian, and had the teeth and jaw structure to match. It is true that mankind evolved to be omnivorous, but do not forget that ancient man, indeed until quite recently, was simply not in possession of the scientific or Spiritual facts upon which to make an informed decision about these things. There are many sources of minerals in cereals and other foods, and which constitute a so called balanced diet. Plants absorbe minerals from the soil in which they grow.

quote:


In almost all scientific studies conducted vegetarians are more likely to die younger, contract more diseases/cancers, age quicker and generally be less healthy than their meat eating counterparts. I am not saying that you can be a healthy vegetarian - you can be - it's just very difficuilt and expensive, making it a choice very few take up.




Again, this really is not the case at all! In fact, I would suggest that the reverse is true. Animal flesh comtains all sorts of toxins, not to mention cholesterol and other organic compounds which are unambiguously dangerous, and can cause heart failure, and many other dis-eases. I also disagree that vegetarians age quicker and die younger - again, I would say completely the opposite is true from the statistics I have seen - not that I am influenced by statistics. The human body requires protein, minerals, vitamins and other nutrients, all of which are found in plant material, Quorn for example is very high in both protein and fibre.


quote:


The other fact is if we didn't eat the animals we wouldn't breed them. Isn't it better to have life than no life? You might argue that breeding them for only our own satisfaction is selfish. Is their life not satisfying? If you were able to communicate with the animals and ask them "would you rather exist or not?" what do you suggest they would say? The answer, I suggest, is obvious.



That is always the argument of meat eaters [Smiley] It is compeletely moot. All life is sacred, and neither you, or anyone else can say what the animals would or would not want. How do you think the unfortunate people who survived the horrors of the concentration camps during WWII felt? I am sure animals might feel the same way.

As for would they, or anyone would rather exist or not - that is a completely temporal perspective. We do exist, have always existed, and always will exist, regardless of physical incarnation. The beings of the higher spheres pity those of us incarnated humans "encased in matter", and which is one reason that they do so much to assist us.

With best regards,

Adrian.

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Lysear
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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2003, 17:29:52 »

wow, this has turned into quite an interesting debate. However, I would have to disagree with you about Quorn Adrian. I have tried some quorn products and there is a bit of an after taste. I do like some linda mcCartney food though.
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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2003, 19:51:11 »

Greetings Lysear,

I guess Quorn is one of those things that is an acquired taste. I made a Quorn bolognaise for dinner, with plenty of fresh chilli's and garlic [Smiley] Very nice it was too. I also make Quorn Chilli con carne, and I use the Quorn chunks to do a nice Quorn Madras curry and rice.

Plenty of garlic in everything is very healthy and keep the negs away [Smiley]

I agree that the Linda McCartney foods are nice, and I also like many of the soya foods.

With best regards,

Adrian.
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« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2003, 01:28:37 »

Hello Adrian!

quote:
Originally posted by Adrian

Greetings BDHugh,

I have to say that I have never seen dairy cows sleeping on water beds before [Smiley] But notwithsanding that, we are still talking about life here, even if animals live in an environment that has been artificially created by humans. Ultimately, these creatures are going to have their lives terminated for no other reason than to satsify human appetites.



Lol, yes that just might be only in Texas too [Wink]. Though, to say that an animal's life is going to be terminated to satisfy human appetites is a judgement.

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How would you feel as a human if you were provided with a penthouse and other luxuries, but on the condition that someone could shoot you through the head and eat you at some time in the near future?



Following this logic, the same can be said of a tomato garden.


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The fact is - all life is sacred - just as much so as humans regard their own lives.



Agreed. It's called the instinct of self-preservation.

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I would agree that plants are also life, but I personally believe, that humans were always intended to eat plants as part of our evolution. Our digestive systems completely agree with that.



You are just trying to justify your choice for the vegetarian lifestyle versus eating meat. If I remember correctly, 'Homo Sapien' means 'thinking man'. Thinking man began to develop tools to hunt. This is when I believed the 'thinking man' evolved into eating meat. Therefore we are not the same as the earlier human beings who very well possibly were to be eating only plants.

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The ultimate problem is, because man sees itself as seperate from the environment instead of a part of it, mankind deems it perfectly right and proper to cause wanton destruction against wildlife, forests, and the environment generally where mining and industry are concerned for example.



I will agree halfway to this, because at the same time man is responsible for conservation and for both agricultural and wildlife management.

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I have to say, with respect, that rather than admit these things, mankind finds it easier and more convenient to justify eating animals, destroying the environment and in many cases even treating fellow human beings badly.



No, if this is true then there is no difference than eating from a garden or the cultivation of fungus. Both are unnatural and there sole purpose is to be consumed by human beings.

Some of these are very thought provoking. It's quite interesting.

All the best,

Brandon
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« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2003, 14:08:04 »

- parmasan ranch patties by morning star are great with cheese and ranch dressing added on a bun mmmmm -

anyways, i read above someone is relating a tomato garden to a slaughterhouse.... last time i checked, tomatoes dont have feelings, senses or even a brain.

another thing i've been thinking about. i dont know if it's because i have become vegetarian or just my personal mentality about eating BUT, i've noticed that food is no longer such a HUGE part of my life. my father is somewhat overweight and it seems as if EVERYTHING revolves around the meal and what is he going to eat, eat this eat that. i have found that most people who are that obsessive about food are obese. i am probably underweight but that's just because i'm too lazy to work out. i've weighed the same for four years now. i feel good that food hasnt taken over my life. i eat two to three meals a day but i dont make it a HUGE deal when i do.


this debate could go on forever. vegetables now are basically just as bad to eat as meat if you look at it in the chemical department. they're covered with pesticides and other chemicals but i guess that's not the reason i dont eat meat. i guess the best bet is to grow your own garden. hrm. i'd like to see someone raise some chicks or baby calves just for the sole purpose of killing and eating them. it's like we just let it happen somewhere else so we dont see it and then eat it without thinking of the process that it went through to get on our plates.
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