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Author Topic: Focus 12 or beyond  (Read 18364 times)
Robin Goodfellow
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« on: June 14, 2012, 12:46:26 »

Hello all  grin

Okay, for the past couple weeks I've been reading the compilation of Franks posts and re-reading Monroes books trying to understand the phasing approach to projection. I figured the first step was reaching a solid Focus 10. I can quite easily enter the mind awake body asleep state associated with Focus 10. I say easily now but its been years since I first attempted reaching that state, now compared to then its a cake walk. Focus 12 confuses me. I cant quite figure out what its supposed to be. I keep reading that its associated with various mental imagery, lights and swirling patterns. I get that immediately upon closing my eyes however. The only difference is that at Focus 10 its much more immediate. In Franks model it seems to me that the switch to Focus 12 would be like entering a WILD. Or is the lucid dream quality beyond Focus 12? Thats basically what Im wondering. I've been re-reading astral dynamics as I study Franks model. My current understanding is that once Focus 10 is reached you have 3 options. 1: Use a technique to move awareness beyond your physical/energetic body into the surrounding area to achieve a RTZ projecton. 2:  Create a mental landscape or dreamscape and engage it with all senses until you phase into it. 3:  Focus on the random mental imagery in a nonchalant way while intending to move beyond it to higher focus levels. What I'm seeking at the moment is entry into the 3D technicolor experience Frank called Focus 2. Im just curious where within the Monroe Focus levels that depth of experience lies. Is it Focus 12 or beyond?
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 16:59:36 »

You are correct in that at F10 you can begin a phasing exercise. Keep in mind that Frank used to phase with the 1st Gateway CD which is only F10, but he used that as his launchpad. (You can read through his Gateway pointers here: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/wave_1_and_general_phasing_questions-t15371.0.html  it's good to read even if you don't do Gateway).

And I would guess that Franks F2 starts at Monroe's F21, but to be honest, I haven't used Monroe's model in a long time and can't keep track of what numbers relate to what.

Personally, if you're using Frank's model, I would just focus on phasing first and leave the whole F-level thing for later. His phasing tips are much more practical for experience than learning focus levels.
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 16:59:36 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2012, 17:45:40 »

Hi,
Franks F's are a simplified version of Monroe's. F1 is the physical, F2 is. Monroe's F10 to F21, Franks F3 is Monroe's F21 to F27 and F4 he assumes Monroe hasn't entered into. This is based up to 2005 as thats as far as I've read to.
F21 is the 3D blackness or the mystics void. It overlaps the deepest phase and enters the astral at the base. It's the ideal focus to achieve as from here the thoughts become your reality through manifestations.
From this focus level you are open to your desires as to whatever your intent  is.
Once achieved youll know it too.
Best of luck.
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2012, 18:57:14 »

In Franks model it seems to me that the switch to Focus 12 would be like entering a WILD. Or is the lucid dream quality beyond Focus 12? Thats basically what Im wondering.

No, F 12 is not a WILD. Some skilled people may enter a WILD,
probably from any kind of altered state, but F 12 is not a general
entry to a WILD. F 12 is more an altered state to experience parts of
our "Universe" (also non-physical parts) or to do healing.

In an old radio interview Monroe said that LDs are experienced in F 15,
but I'm not sure at all if that's TMI's current opinion on LDs. You may
also change the Focus Level of an LD, see for example Buhlman, he
has some youtube radio interviews where he talks about upgrading
and LD into an OBE.

I'm not either convinced that Frank's model talked about a "switch to Focus 12".
I don't think he went along that line. My opinion is that Frank's FoC Model
was flawed and with too little scientific background, but I want to avoid
going too deeply into that mess here and now. Instead you will perhaps
get some ideas from my review1 and review2.

I've been re-reading astral dynamics as I study Franks model. My current understanding is that once Focus 10 is reached you have 3 options. 1: Use a technique to move awareness beyond your physical/energetic body into the surrounding area to achieve a RTZ projecton. 2:  Create a mental landscape or dreamscape and engage it with all senses until you phase into it. 3:  Focus on the random mental imagery in a nonchalant way while intending to move beyond it to higher focus levels. What I'm seeking at the moment is entry into the 3D technicolor experience Frank called Focus 2. Im just curious where within the Monroe Focus levels that depth of experience lies. Is it Focus 12 or beyond?

If you mean AD by R Bruce, I think it has a different approach to
the astral than F Kepple's.

Perhaps you can do a an OBE from F 10 or F 12 if you're skilled at
doing so, but my impression is that it's not that simple. Focus Level
states and RTZ OBEs are not one-to-one. Also, remember that F Kepple
either didn't like the RTZ concept, or kind of rejected it, so I'm not so
sure any RTZ projection is completely valid in F Kepple's Model.

I think that F 10 is an entry point to other states of altered awareness,
or perhaps an entry point for inner selfknowledge. I have read very
few statements of skilled projectors who claim that they have been
truely successful in repeating Frank's experiences. And I have to say
that after F Kepple left, I think the majority of experiences are of a
slightly different kind, and more in the line of Monroe/Bruce/Moen/Buhlman.

My impression is also that the various Focus Levels you can reach doesn't
mean that it becomes any easier to do anything else, than being in your
physical body most of the time, but with an altered state of awareness,
being fed with non-physical impressions, sometimes of poor quality.


Most descriptions by people from the Monroe school, who have entered the various
Focus Levels, have either done it with no Kepple phasing involved, and just
picked up non-physical impressions (Moen style) or, in some rare case, people
have had full fledge OBEs, or some may have had RV style experiences too.

Having read a lot of books, I can't exactly say that the claims by F Kepple
on his FoC Model matches anyone's else. Maybe he did try to be creative,
but I think the best source on how to OBE or how to view the Focus Levels
come from other people who have been in more contact with TMI or Monroe,
as the Focus Level concept is very Monroe & TMI specific.
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Contenteo
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2012, 21:25:03 »

It is in my experience that F12 begins when you stop relaying on your eyes for sensory input. One could say you 'shut them down.' It is a subtle change if you don't know what you are looking for, but once you know what it looks like, it is very obvious when you reach it.

If I had to be simple about it, I would call it 'vastness.' It feels like all of a sudden you are standing on the top of a very tall mountain and the dead of night with no moon in the sky, and all around you is expansive, but nothing is filling it. I never liked the term 3D Blackness, because so many stages of the process could be called that. This one in particular.

In my experience, that biggest thing that goes largely unsaid about this transition, is you cannot move your eyes. If you move your eyes for any reason, they'll 'turn back on' and you pop yourself out to F10. IMO, this is why Frank locked his eyeballs up above. Many other icons mention similar methods but never fully explain why. I suspect this F10-F12 transition is the case.

As for the technicolor experience. I would just rub your eyes if you really want that. I have never come across anything more impressive in the transition stages to projection.

Cheers,
Contenteo
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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2012, 21:25:03 »



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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2012, 21:32:26 »

In my experience, that biggest thing that goes largely unsaid about this transition, is you cannot move your eyes. If you move your eyes for any reason, they'll 'turn back on' and you pop yourself out to F10. IMO, this is why Frank locked his eyeballs up above. Many other icons mention similar methods but never fully explain why. I suspect this F10-F12 transition is the case.
Early on I used to lock my eyeballs up above as well, then for some reason down the line it changed to my entire focus being locked to about a foot above my head. This can come on now with just a simple thought. When you lock begin to lock your focus above your body you will feel the shift almost immediately. You just have to put a lot of practice and determination into getting to this point.  smiley
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 16:34:43 »

The nice thing about Frank's stuff is you don't need F-level stuff. He has practical advice that leads directly to phasing, and once you're having experiences you can begin to figure out where you are in the scheme of things. The experience and what you get out of it is more important than the label attached to it.
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Robin Goodfellow
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 00:12:59 »

Thanks you all for the replies  smiley

I suppose I got the impression from reading Franks posts that phasing was a well honed method of entering a WILD, which is where my interest in phasing mostly lies. I've developed a personalized training regimen over the years of exercises in consciousness exploration and at the moment full blown OBE's aren't on top of my list. At the moment I'm focused on sensory concentration through active imagination techniques, and Franks model seemed conducive to that area of exploration. I am very interested in the MIT's gateway program and think I might give the program a try soon.

As a side note I was reading 'Concentration' by Mouni Sadhu last night and thought the book would probably be of interest to those using phasing techniques. The book is a full course in concentration that teaches step by step how to focus your attention, shut off sensory stimulus, and expand consciousness beyond the physical through willed intent. Interestingly the advanced exercises begin with shutting off the visual and auditory senses as you expand the blackness to a 3D quality. Sadhu also used a 4 levels or reality model which corresponded to Waking, Dreaming, Dreamless Sleep, and a fourth state he simply mentioned was the Source of and interpenetrated the other 3 states.
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 01:02:47 »

 Hello Robin, this might help you with your focus. I watch it once in a while to practice keeping focus myself and have found it quite useful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxvb9pgkrvI Here is a link to a PDF on Mouni Sadhu's book Concentration. http://www.scribd.com/doc/14046895/Meditation-Mouni-Sadhu-Concentration-A-Guide-to-Mental-Masteryfixed
 Good Luck and Safe Travels!  smiley
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 01:23:04 by Lionheart » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 03:50:00 »

Thanks you all for the replies  smiley

I suppose I got the impression from reading Franks posts that phasing was a well honed method of entering a WILD, which is where my interest in phasing mostly lies. I've developed a personalized training regimen over the years of exercises in consciousness exploration and at the moment full blown OBE's aren't on top of my list. At the moment I'm focused on sensory concentration through active imagination techniques, and Franks model seemed conducive to that area of exploration. I am very interested in the MIT's gateway program and think I might give the program a try soon.
Phasing *IS* doing a WILD.  They're metaphors describing the same thing.

As you progress, experience and learn more... you'll quickly realize how the many seemingly different terms people use to describe things are actually all just one in the same.  People have many different metaphors describing the same experience.

Quote
As a side note I was reading 'Concentration' by Mouni Sadhu last night and thought the book would probably be of interest to those using phasing techniques. The book is a full course in concentration that teaches step by step how to focus your attention, shut off sensory stimulus, and expand consciousness beyond the physical through willed intent. Interestingly the advanced exercises begin with shutting off the visual and auditory senses as you expand the blackness to a 3D quality. Sadhu also used a 4 levels or reality model which corresponded to Waking, Dreaming, Dreamless Sleep, and a fourth state he simply mentioned was the Source of and interpenetrated the other 3 states.
The bold and underlined portion is all you really ever need to learn in order to project.  Consciousness will automatically "expand" after successful attempts of doing those two things for extended periods of time.
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Robin Goodfellow
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 05:11:00 »

I think I've gotten all I needed from the original inquiry now.  smiley Am starting to remember why I used to frequent the Pulse back in the day, such diversity here. Ive had enough experience within nonphysical realities to find my way back, and I just don't think the phasing method adds anything to what I already know besides a new label. Ultimately I gotta follow my own drum beat, though I do enjoy relaxing while I appreciate the beat of a different drum once in a while.


Good thoughts to you all  grin
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 05:28:43 »

I think I've gotten all I needed from the original inquiry now.  smiley Am starting to remember why I used to frequent the Pulse back in the day, such diversity here. Ive had enough experience within nonphysical realities to find my way back, and I just don't think the phasing method adds anything to what I already know besides a new label. Ultimately I gotta follow my own drum beat, though I do enjoy relaxing while I appreciate the beat of a different drum once in a while.


Good thoughts to you all  grin
This is all a very personal and unique journey and I believe you've definitely got the right attitude!  Smiley
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Pauli2
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 12:18:52 »

Phasing *IS* doing a WILD.  They're metaphors describing the same thing.

Stephen LaBerge is the originator of the concept WILD.

I know that F Kepple made little (some?) distinction between LDs and "projections".
He further didn't like the expression OBE, but where is your source that
Kepple-phasing is the same as WILD?

Is it your own definition?
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 15:43:56 »

Stephen LaBerge is the originator of the concept WILD.

I know that F Kepple made little (some?) distinction between LDs and "projections".
He further didn't like the expression OBE, but where is your source that
Kepple-phasing is the same as WILD?

Is it your own definition?
My sources are from my own personal direct experiences with lucid dreaming and phasing and making my own judgment calls on the results.
To me, a WILD and Phasing are the exact same technique.  Why?  For one, the techniques used to do them are identical and two, because I've directly experienced the techniques and the end results.  I've said it before, but I'll say it again... I'd highly suggest to you, Pauli, if you're going to create opinions for yourself on these subjects that you endevour to base your opinions on the source of your own direct experiences and not what you read in a book.  Then you'll "know" instead of having to "believe".

This distinction between different author's terminologies (interpretations) you attempt to hold on so tightly is what holds you back.  Learning to identify the different terms people use and tying them all together is, in my opinion, absolutely paramount to beginning to link and understand everyone's unique perspective in a manner that isn't so combative.

Most of what I speak about, I speak from direct experiences.  My conclusions are drawn, mostly, from my direct experiences.
One of my goals is to attempt to get people to find the metaphors that others use and compare them to their own in an effort to bridge the terminology gap.


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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 16:57:24 »

My sources are from my own personal direct experiences with lucid dreaming
and phasing and making my own judgment calls on the results.

To me, a WILD and Phasing are the exact same technique.

That's a bold statement.

But perhaps you should be a little more clear what's your opinion
and what's more common knowledge, as the original thread starter
asked about F 12 and WILD., which are Monroe resp. LaBerge concepts,
_not_ your specific experiences.

If you continue to make claims/opinions with certainty, I think it would be
decent to point that out.

One reason I think you should do so, is that I'm not longer sure that
you and Kepple at all mean the same thing when you say "phasing".
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« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 18:19:51 »

That's a bold statement.
It's not a bold statement.  It's a statement based upon my direct experiences and the conclusions I've drawn from them.

Quote
But perhaps you should be a little more clear what's your opinion
and what's more common knowledge, as the original thread starter
asked about F 12 and WILD., which are Monroe resp. LaBerge concepts,
_not_ your specific experiences.
What exactly is "common knowledge" in a subject that has no certainty beyond personal experience?

Quote
One reason I think you should do so, is that I'm not longer sure that
you and Kepple at all mean the same thing when you say "phasing".
That's your opinion.  And I respect that.  However, it's an opinion I firmly disagree with though.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again... I'd highly suggest to you, Pauli, if you're going to create opinions for yourself on these subjects that you endevour to base your opinions on the source of your own direct experiences and not what you read in a book.  Then you'll "know" instead of having to "believe".

I'm sorry Pauli if I'm stepping all over some of what you believe to be true, but these are the conclusions I've derived from my own *DIRECT EXPERIENCES*.
Your authors who disagree with them can disagree all they want.  LOL  I have my direct experiences to counter them... what do you have, other than someone else's opinion/belief?
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« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2012, 18:56:00 »

Hi,
Agreeing to disagree comes to mind here initially.
However, if Pauli needs the experience then why not help to make this so?
Something is amiss if you read and understand the initiation of this experience and can't make the full concious transition to its end.
Pauli, how can we help so your opinions on F12 are from personal experience?
This must be annoying to say the least.
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« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2012, 19:45:44 »

Hi,
Agreeing to disagree comes to mind here initially.
I completely agree.

Quote
However, if Pauli needs the experience then why not help to make this so?
Something is amiss if you read and understand the initiation of this experience and can't make the full conscious transition to its end.
Pauli, how can we help so your opinions on F12 are from personal experience?
This must be annoying to say the least.
Even though I have personally tried to help Pauli for a couple years... and several other individuals on my IRC channel have also tried to personally help him with advice.
I fully support this initiative... as long as Pauli, himself, accepts the assistance.  That is why this forum exists.

The first point that one needs to get past is that published authors DO NOT have all the answers; nor are published authors always correct.  What you read in books (and even on these forums) is good as a guide only, not a rule.  Nothing you read about should ever be taken as truth.  If what you read resonates very well with something you've experienced previously then you at least have something "more" to build upon.  In the end, that's what you want.

As for Pauli, I know for a fact that he has solid Focus 12 experiences.  He's relayed them to me as such.  Even though at the time he was ready to throw those experiences aside because they didn't coincide with anything he read from any published authors.  What this is, is bringing the intellect into the experience too quickly.  You want to begin to have experiences first... MANY of them... THEN slowly, over time, bring the intellect in to analyze the experiences.  Not the other way around.  You're only going to frustrate yourself otherwise.

I think this discussion here helping Pauli in regards to Focus 12 could really assist Robin Goodfellow in regards to her original post to provide some extra guides for her in regards to Focus 12 and beyond.
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« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2012, 21:34:56 »

Below is a NDE article that shows the most common locations of exit for the soul in an NDE. It is a very good read.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research12.html

Here is a quote from the article:

"A List of the Various Locations on the Physical Body Where the Spirit Body Will Enter the Physical Body Upon Return

Many near-death and out-of-body experiencers have described leaving and entering their physical bodies at a particular location on their physical body. Not everyone leaves and enters their physical body at the same location. These are the main locations on the physical body that I have across in my research:

(1) The Top of the Head
           
People who left and/or returned to their body through the top of the head: Jayne Smith, Arthur Yensen, Pam Reynolds, MaryJane

(2) The Chest
           
People who left and/or returned to their body through their chest: Betty Eadie, Margaret Birkin, Michael

(3) The Abdomen
           
People who left and/or returned to their body through their abdomen: Donna Gotti, Lynn Russell

(4) The Feet
           
People who left and/or returned to their body through their feet: Susan Blackmore, Jack Foreman,  Debbie Malec"
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 17:38:30 by todd421757 » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2012, 23:32:33 »

 I personally have found that this goes in cycles just like with sales training. I have trained many people sales techniques, mostly on cold sales, door to door and have found that it takes about a month to see if they will be successful or not. The first week is "new person" enthusiasm. The person is so excited to have a new job and learn a new skill, that they can't fail. They are so pumped up when they finally get a chance to sell that their energy alone creates the sale. The next week is enthusiasm + taught techniques, this again will be a successful week for them. The third week for some reason changes them, they lose the enthusiasm and now are running on just taught skills, they adapt a kind of "know it all" personality. We find that this is the make or break week. They will make it to the fourth week if they can realize what went wrong for themselves. If they can see what they have lost along the way.
 Personally for me, I started the same way in finding the Wider Reality too. At first I had the enthusiasm, then the enthusiasm + a bit of knowledge. I tried to read everything I could, then got to the stage of "know it all". This is when I too started having problems. I was labeling every experience I had, trying to over think things and questioning everything. I then had a Phase lesson where I was shown some things and told to keep them to myself. I didn't and lost all my ability to Phase for about 2 weeks. I learned to trust what I was hearing after this happened. Those two weeks were great though, they gave me a chance to reflect on my experiences, what my goals for the future were to be. After my two week "timeout", I was told just to sit back and learn, to still experience, but to observe without question. I was told the questions would answer themselves by experience. I was also told to "drop the damn labels", in exactly those words. Ever since then I have been successful whether by Phasing by day or Lucid Dreaming by night, with a "false awakening" popping up once in awhile. Those three things are the extent of my labeling program for now.  smiley
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 00:38:44 by Lionheart » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2012, 00:11:34 »

I think this discussion here helping Pauli in regards to Focus 12 could really assist Robin Goodfellow in regards to her original post to provide some extra guides for her in regards to Focus 12 and beyond.

Him  smiley..I have boy parts  wink


I'm curious now where this conversation might evolve to so thought I might throw out some observations I've made about past experiences. I do tend to distinguish between OBE and lucid dream.

OBE Experience:

While laying down I was having trouble getting to sleep so thought I might experiment a bit. Went through my progressive relaxation routine until the heaviness overtook me and began using ROPE. Almost immediately I felt pressure in my solar plexus and tingling throughout my body. My chest began to vibrate which caught my focus and as I held my attention on the vibrations they sped up and moved throughout my body. I started to feel myself lifting up out of my body at this point but it wasn't quite that clear cut. I could feel the numbness in my physical body, the non-physical vibrations, and a bodily awareness moving outside my physical body all at the same time. During the whole process I also retained spatial awareness regarding the room I was in as well. It felt very much like moving outward.

LD Experience:

Was feeling restless while trying to fall asleep so thought I would play with my imagination a bit. I settled down into my usual sleeping position and started watching the mental imagery behind my closed eyes. Its always so random I wonder if this stuff is floating around in my mind all day. Most of it is cartoonish scenes mixed with constantly changing patterns of light. Suddenly a very realistic scene popped up. It was at first just a tree but it was so real I could have reached out and touched it. I looked down and could see the ground, looked up into a blue sky. Very realistic so I kept playing. At some point I must have drifted off to sleep because I don't recall a transition but I woke up in my imaginary woods scene. I knew it was a dream and I also knew I was creating it. I cant explain how I knew I was creating it, was just my sense or my feeling. I knew I was within a self created reality.


These are two of my experiences with non physical realities with two very different feelings about them. My level of awareness felt the same in both. The OBE felt like an external projection and the environment around me felt stable, but I had the sense it was also external to me and not a creation of my mind. The LD felt like an internal projection and the environment felt just as stable as the OBE, but I had the definite sense it was being manufactured by my own mind like I was walking around within myself.
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2012, 00:21:45 »

 They are both projections. It's just your "expectations" and perceptions were different. One you use the "rope" technique, so this stayed more on a physical focus. The other you jumpstarted it with a non physical focus as in an imaginary scene. This one blossomed into a full fledged scene as it usually will. I write all my experiences down and then go back about once a month to my log and try to see if there is a pattern. I look at where I went and which technique I chose to get there, then I create my final assumptions from there.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 00:23:31 by Lionheart » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2012, 00:47:50 »

Him  smiley..I have boy parts  wink
Oopsie!  My apologies.  Smiley

As for the rest of your post, I think Lionheart said everything I would have.  lol

When one shifts their perception to including lucid dreams as part of the OBE-spectrum, and realize that all the different labels only describe a certain level of awareness, it begins to open up options that one might never have considered before.  I came to this conclusion after a run of several projections in the same night using my "eyes closed/body still" technique.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 00:55:31 by Xanth » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2012, 01:21:55 »

Quote
One reason I think you should do so, is that I'm not longer sure that
you and Kepple at all mean the same thing when you say "phasing".

I agree with this statement. The concept of "phasing" has been so mythologized and re-assimilated by so many people here, with so many personal interpretations, it doesn't really mean the same thing that Frank may have intended.
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« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2012, 01:58:55 »

Phasing is the smooth shifting of your consciousness from one reality to another while remaining aware.
Described by Monroe as falling asleep, yet remaining consciously aware.  I fully agree with this sentiment and experience it in that fashion too.

These are the definitions which Robert and Frank mention... and which I fully support.
Is the phasing Frank did any different from what Monroe suggested in his third book from what I say when I say "Phasing"? 
From their similar backgrounds and explanations they certainly seem to fit.  From my experiences with the techniques and the descriptions of other techniques, it certainly seems to fit.

In the end, everything is a personal and unique experience only usable by anyone else as a guideline only.

The question then becomes... how many personal interpretations have you come across which differ from this?

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