Focus 23 Retrieval of a suicide

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mikemess

wow!  amazing story.  i have often met up with discarnates while out of the body and would like to know how to learn to deal with them like you did.  a few times i told them that they were dead and they start yelling and cursing at me telling me that they are not...
do you know where i can learn how to deal with these people who don't know that they are dead and can't accept it?

beavis

"how to deal with these people who don't know that they are dead"

shovel dirt on them

jason

ha![:P]-that's funny beavis!

I would like to be able to help people like that when I get more adept at this whole astral projection/phasing thing (confusing!).a few months ago,while relaxing in bed,I heard the sound of a small girl crying.I then heard a doctor saying she was hit by a train    [:O][:(].he went on describing the process he was using to try and save here life,but I guess she died.

I had the distinct feeling she didn't realize what happened,and was wondering where her mom was!

unfortunately,I don't have the experience in dealing with this stuff, so I couldn't really help her...
The musical conciousness is mind beneath the sun.

mikemess

actually that wasn't funny...i was serious and my question was directed at ginny or anyone else with serious replys...

Nay

Thanks for sharing again, Ginny!

Jason..I too have been inspired by Gin's accounts!  And hope to be able to help others whom are "stuck"

Nay. [;)]

zakaroth

Does this sort of experience happen a lot during astral projections/phasings? Its just I think that it would kind of freak me out a bit!

beavis

Mike, why wouldnt shoveling dirt on the confused dead tell them they're dead?

mikemess

*sigh*   i'm new here and this was my first post so i'm not familiar with you and don't know whether you are serious or just plain stupid.[xx(]   but i'm assuming the latter...[B)]
anyway....






Adrian

Greetings,

quote:
Originally posted by mikemess

actually that wasn't funny...i was serious and my question was directed at ginny or anyone else with serious replys...



I agree with mikemess entirely. He asked a serious question and is entitled to a serious answer. No more responses like that please Beavis.

mikemess - I am sure Ginny will respond to your question soon - she has much experience with these situations. I do believe that faced with that situation, it is a good idea to request a guide.

With best regards,

Adrian.



https://ourultimatereality.com/
Vincit Omnia Veritas

Nay

Hehehe..Mike that was pretty good!  Don't think you're new at good replies! LOL...

Come on beavis..you have to have known that comment was COLD..[:(]

Nay. [;)]

Greytraveller

My question to Ginny -
Have you ever verified any of your retrieval experiences by reading or seeing a (news) report about the physical information (names, adresses, situations) of the newly deceased people that you have helped while OOB[?]
Of course such information is not essential to what you are doing yet it would provide some form of encouragement.

Ginny

quote:
Originally posted by mikemess

wow!  amazing story.  i have often met up with discarnates while out of the body and would like to know how to learn to deal with them like you did.  a few times i told them that they were dead and they start yelling and cursing at me telling me that they are not...
do you know where i can learn how to deal with these people who don't know that they are dead and can't accept it?





Hi Mikemess,

About retrieving...have you ever read Robert Monroe's third book, Ultimate Journey? This was when I first read of the idea that some people can become stuck (in an area of consciousness he simply labeled as Focus 23) due to strongly held beliefs, fears, sudden death causing confusion etc etc. Later on I found Bruce Moen's site and books...a person who found it difficult to have OOBEs, and discovered what's known as Focused Attention, wherein through relaxation, intent, and the power of our imagination (mind's eye) we can, while conscious but relaxed, communicate with deceased folks as well as participate in retrieving. It was while reading his first book that I just started participating in retrievals. It sounds to me as if you're experiencing what R. Monroe did, inadvertently...where he was OOB and running into people and wasn't sure what to do. Cool!!! He later realized that for all the years he'd been going OOB, there had always been someone with him, whether he took note of them or not---Guides...and they were the people who introduced him to retrieving.
Just my own opinion here but I'd say there's a reason why you've been running into people who still think they're in the physical---:o). Have you ever, in your nonphysical travels, encountered Guides, or what Bruce calls Helpers? Helpers are just people who were human once and who now prefer to remain in the nonphysical and help folks who need it. If you encounter another person again who thinks they're still 'alive in the physical', just befriend them, perhaps play along with their thinking...and all the while ask for a Helper to come (however you would do that...or maybe ask for one prior to even finding a stuck person?) and advise you on what to do. The important thing about helping anyone out of their own self-created isolation, in say, a place such as Focus 23, is to understand that since they are completely convinced they're still in the physical, they simply are not aware of anyone who is in the nonphysical--any Helpers, deceased family members etc, trying to get their attention. So, once you befriend them, gain their trust, and introduce them to a Helper, your job is over. The Helper will most likely already know a great deal about them and escort them to where they need to be.
If this will help:
http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/index.html

You're more than welcome to PM me, Mikemass. When I first got started I relied a great deal on Helpers (they'll inform you of each stuck person, even give you ideas on how to help--what to say, do...and they're good at stepping in if you say something alarming which I did several times---lol!)...but it's nice too to know someone who's already doing it, and I never get tired of sharing whatever little I know when it comes to retrieving.

Looking forward to hearing how it goes for you, and love,

Ginny

beavis

It was meant as a joke. I made my second comment because mike thought it wasnt funny. I would think its hilarious if somebody shoveled dirt on my spirit when I die.

Ginny

quote:
Originally posted by jason

ha![:P]

I had the distinct feeling she didn't realize what happened,and was wondering where her mom was!

unfortunately,I don't have the experience in dealing with this stuff, so I couldn't really help her...




Hi Jason,

Same thing happened to me last night while relaxed and slipping off to sleep--a friend who passed away was just suddenly in my mind, along with a knowing feeling it was her. I was having a difficult time staying focused on her cause I was so tired, but her laughing at me each time I faded away for a few seconds kept bringing me back--:o). She just wanted to show me her new home, all of which was a place I never would have expected her to choose, and I plan to contact her daughter still here in the physical to see if that info makes sense.
What you experienced is pretty much what I've learned to do with Focused Attention, where while in a relaxed but conscious state of mind, one moves the majority of their attention away from the physical and uses the mind's eye and nonphysical senses to communicate, etc. I don't astral project or phase, as I understand these methods to be....but then I feel no matter what the method, we're all learning to focus awareness/attention into other areas of consciousness anyway.
Sometimes children who are stuck can be difficult to help as they've been trained by parents to not have anything to do with strangers. If you encounter her again just be friendly and calm...and sometimes telling kids you can show them how to fly, or go for a piggyback ride---these are ideas on how to help them simply leave their isolation. Some children, once they feel they can trust you, are willing to leave with you...or be introduced to a Helper/deceased family member nearby.

Thanks Jason and take care,

Ginny

Ginny

quote:
Originally posted by Nay

Thanks for sharing again, Ginny!

Jason..I too have been inspired by Gin's accounts!  And hope to be able to help others whom are "stuck"

Nay. [;)]



Nay,

I think I owe you a PM---;o).

Gin

Ginny

quote:
Originally posted by zakaroth

Does this sort of experience happen a lot during astral projections/phasings? Its just I think that it would kind of freak me out a bit!




Zakaroth,

I don't know. For years I wanted to help in retrievals so I'd say that's why I do it a lot now. Since I use Focused Attention to be in the nonphysical it's always my choice where I go, what I want to do.

Take care,

Ginny

Nay

quote:
Nay,

I think I owe you a PM---;o).

Gin


Tehehehehe... No hurry..busy girl! [:D]

Nay.[;)]

Ginny

quote:
Originally posted by Greytraveller

My question to Ginny -
Have you ever verified any of your retrieval experiences by reading or seeing a (news) report about the physical information (names, adresses, situations) of the newly deceased people that you have helped while OOB[?]
Of course such information is not essential to what you are doing yet it would provide some form of encouragement.




Greytraveller,

Oh yea, especially in the beginning. Previously unknown information I received from a deceased relative was confirmed through other family members still in the physical. Also did some research over the internet when I first started retrieving and was able to verify info I had been told while in the nonphysical. To me it was important to come to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what I was experiencing was real. I was quite a skeptic of many things 'metaphysical' for years...and so no one was more shocked than I when I was able to get proof. It's a personal thing...some don't need to verify anything, others feel it's necessary to be able to go from 'believing' to 'knowing'.

Here's something that happened not too long ago and it just goes to show what can happen when we simply ask questions from people There. A friend of mine in her late 80's passed away a few weeks ago, Greytraveller, and in visiting with her a few times in the nonphysical, and in asking if she had a message for me to relay to her 58 year old daughter, I was then seeing a wooden clothes pin, the kind used a long time ago to hang wet laundry outside on clotheslines. I then briefly saw white bed sheets hanging, blowing softly in the breeze, lots of sunshine. I was then back looking at her again and she told me to tell her daughter to remember the time when, as a young girl, her daughter had enjoyed "running between the sheets" (as she said this I was then for just a second or two moving between hanging bed sheets with my arms out at shoulder height). She said the happiness and free spirit her daughter had had then was the daughter she had always loved, the daughter she knew existed underneath all her problems later in life (her daughter had suffered from debilitating bipolar disease for over 35 years til around 2 years ago). None of this really made sense to me, so when I later called her daughter and asked her if she remembered "running between the sheets" in childhood (and that was all I said)...she responded with a long pause, and said yes, explaining when she was around 5 or 6, she'd soar high in her swing and eventually catapult herself so she hit the ground running, and she'd run between the sheets hanging out to dry, holding her arms out to touch them. She said she felt free then. It wasn't too long before a relative cut the branch off that her swing had been tied to, to stop the sheet running...and thereafter life became pretty bizarre for her, for any child that age. That message from her mother meant a lot.

Love,

Ginny

mikemess

*whew!*[:D] [jumps over butthead to get to ginny]
thank you ginny i will check out that link.
and thank you adrian.[;)]

Gandalf

Ginny,
Is it the case that all those who are stuck on lower levels are simply unaware that they have died?
I'm sure I read from Bruce Moen or others that there are *many* reasons and although many of these cases indeed think they are still alive, there are others who actually DO know they are dead but are still stuck, perhaps because they do not believe there is anything else, or they are still desperate to reach the physical world for some reason, such as to pass on a message about some perceived injustice for example, this being the reson behind many 'hauntings' that we hear about.

Regards,
Douglas
"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

Ginny

quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf

Ginny,
Is it the case that all those who are stuck on lower levels are simply unaware that they have died?
I'm sure I read from Bruce Moen or others that there are *many* reasons and although many of these cases indeed think they are still alive, there are others who actually DO know they are dead but are still stuck, perhaps because they do not believe there is anything else, or they are still desperate to reach the physical world for some reason, such as to pass on a message about some perceived injustice for example, this being the reson behind many 'hauntings' that we hear about.

Regards,
Douglas




Hi Douglas,

Yes, I've dealt to a small degree with some who knew they had either died or somehow went through a transition of sorts. This doesn't mean their population numbers are less than those who're confused or unaware they've died--just something I've been in the process of learning about so have limited experience. Sometimes it has felt as if there are a great many in this situation though.

Love,

Ginny

Gandalf

thanks Ginny,
this area sheds a lot of light on 'ghosts' and hauntings in general.
It also explains why many of these people are so desperate to contact or have some influence in our world as they are so isolated.

While the cases you describe are often trapped in their own little worlds, I sometimes hear of other cases, such as those described by Robert Monroe, who are aware of the material world but cannot interact with it, much to their desperation. Often these people are unaware that they have 'died' but there are others who do know but do not recognise anything other than the physical- to them, the physical is 'all there is', leaving them very isolated. I can't help thinking that this must be the fate of many die hard skeptics.

while many consider that such people can have very little or no influence in our world, I think otherwise in some cases. In many accounts of hauntings, the haunting 'symptoms' start off very small and insignificant to begin with, but if noticed by others and knowedge of these events widens, then the effects grow in consequence.

This is quite common so I can only imagine that people who are responsible for generating such effects are able to 'feed' off of the fear or interest generated, thus allowing progressivly more influence in the material world. I imagine this is possible due to some kind of psychic link being generated betweeen the 'haunter' and the 'haunted'.

Anyway, although I agree that in the majority of cases, these people have no influence in our world, I don't believe this is always the case, especially when you consider that many hauntings progress from small localised phenomena to quite spectacular ones, leading me to suspect that many observers must unknowngly 'lend' energy that allows these people to manifest.
Therefor the idea of 'fear feeders' is not not really that far fetched IMO, simply because fear is one of the easiest emotions to generate in humans, thereby establishing some kind of link.
Afterall, many of these people are desperate for attention.

Regards,
Douglas

"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

Greytraveller

Ginny -
That was an amazing story. [:O] Thanx for the response. Keep up the good work. [:D]

Ginny

quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf

Douglas,

~Therefor the idea of 'fear feeders' is not not really that far fetched IMO, simply because fear is one of the easiest emotions to generate in humans, thereby establishing some kind of link.
Afterall, many of these people are desperate for attention.~

Yes, well stated...and since we don't know a great deal so much fear is generated about this situation, compounding the problem even more til I think many are packed off to institutions or drugged out of their minds. As far as I'm concerned (from what little direct experience I have with this so far) you hit the nail on the head: some of these Nons are isolated, lonely, and just wanting attention, so narrowly focused on whatever their need/addiction is that they can't see the forest for the trees. And sometimes the person in the physical has similar characteristics.

Thanks Douglas,

Ginny




Ginny

Hi everyone,

Onced relaxed and after sending out my willingness to connect with a Helper and assist in a retrieval wherever needed, I was greeted immediately by one who communicated a sense of concern about someone stuck. They hadn't been able to get the person's attention, apparently for quite awhile.

I was then aware of someone off in the distance, shouting, agitated. As we got closer I saw a man, perhaps in his 50's or 60's, talking angrily to no one. He seemed to be in a kitchen, at one moment sitting and the next standing quickly, having an argument and periodically picking up a rifle and then setting it back in a corner.

I decided to just watch for a moment as information started coming to me, and I understood he was extrememly upset about possibly losing his job. He was waiting for a phone call from his employer and had been rehearsing what he'd say.

When I stepped forward I said hello, a hello that conveyed friendliness, calmness... and he reached for his rifle and aimed it at me. I sat down very slowly, across from him at a table, telling him he had nothing to fear, that I was there to help and then asked him what the problem was. He seemed to be caught off guard that I was there and yet he never questioned what I was doing in his kitchen. He was much more interested in pleading his case with anyone who would sympathize with him. He must have decided I was okay because the rifle disappeared and he pushed a folder of paper towards me, stabbing his finger towards the bottom of the top page, saying the company had 'written him up' for some infraction...and after forty years of devoted service he was convinced they were harrassing him, being unfair. I nodded and told him it seemed at times corporations didn't appreciate their workers. I asked what he did at the job and was immediately seeing what appeared to be the inside of a manufacturing plant: lots of large machinery clanking and operating. The macines were producing large rolls of wide brown paper and he then said the company manufactured butcher paper, as well as other paper products. He had worked his way up through the years and was entrusted with maintenance--to make sure everything ran smoothly and on time. We talked a little more about about how unfair it all was, as I rapidly wondered what to do and silently asked for advice from the nearby Helper. The man had calmed down a bit but was starting to get angry again.

I then diverted his attention by saying that I had a friend with me who had helped in a similar job situation I had experienced awhile back. He was with a non-profit organization, a mediate agency of sorts, and he'd be willing to talk with his employer on his behalf. I told him he had a good track record for helping employees to keep their jobs. I then held my left arm out as the Helper approached and watched as he held his right arm out over the table to shake the man's hand. He (the man stuck)hesitated, asking if the mediator was really a lawyer and I said no. They shook hands and the Helper was then discussing something with him and I backed away, knowing everything was going to be okay.

Within a minute or two he left with the Helper and I stayed, staring at the empty kitchen, wondering what had brought the man to be there in such isolation. I then sensed someone to my left and another Helper offered a willingness to answer any questions. What I then got was that the man had actually lost his job when in the physical, been fired...and had committed suicide at home. His life long position with the company had basically been his whole life (having been fired was an all out attack on his self esteem) and he had gotten to the point where he wanted his suicide to provoke guilt in his employer. In a final moment of depression, rage, and need for revenge, he had killed himself, thinking such an act would be some kind of retaliation. I found it interesting that he had ended up in a situation where he was under the impression he was still employed, preparing to fight his cause...as if actually losing his job was something he just couldn't face.

I thanked the Helper, knowing the man was okay now, and then headed out to check on a friend.

Thanks for reading and much love,

Ginny