How do you know?

[Goober]

How do you figure out if something is an AP or an intense Lucid Dream?

How do you tell the difference, and how do you know that Astral Projecting into the Astral instead of Etheric isn't always just a Lucid Dream?

[manuel]

I personaly think they are all one of the same phenomena, that is, experiences within consciousness, I feel that terms like lucid dreaming, astral projecting, etherical projecting etc, all do is confuse and bemuse one, I think that Robert Monroe's and Franks phasing type models give a more clearer picture of what is going on.

[MisterJingo]

I personaly think they are all one of the same phenomena, that is, experiences within consciousness, I feel that terms like lucid dreaming, astral projecting, etherical projecting etc, all do is confuse and bemuse one, I think that Robert Monroe's and Franks phasing type models give a more clearer picture of what is going on.

Can't really add anything else to this . I've got a lot of projections under my belt, and if I am honest with what I have experienced (rather than forcing my experiences to conform to my desired beliefs) I am pretty much open to what is happening while OBE/AP etc. What I do know, as manuel wrote, all these experiences fall within the spectrum of conscious experience. Creating divisions, expectations or doubts on experiences will ultimately lead to dissapointment (imo and experience anyway).

[Goober]

I personaly think they are all one of the same phenomena, that is, experiences within consciousness, I feel that terms like lucid dreaming, astral projecting, etherical projecting etc, all do is confuse and bemuse one, I think that Robert Monroe's and Franks phasing type models give a more clearer picture of what is going on.

If Lucid Dreaming is the same, basically, as Astral Projection, wouldn't it all be in the mind?

[MisterJingo]

If Lucid Dreaming is the same, basically, as Astral Projection, wouldn't it all be in the mind?

Well yes, but we must consider that our current definition of mind is either wrong or woefully inadequate. In a phasing view, any locale, internal or 'external' is but a point on the spectrum of consiousness.

[Goober]

All so confusing for my feeble mind. Thanks for the answers, I will contemplate this.

[Novice]

I completely agree with what Manuel and MisterJingo wrote.

Everything is purely a focus of consciousness. So when you astral 'project' or OBE you really aren't going anywhere. You are simply shifting your awareness from one thing to another. The conscious mind interprets movement and seperation during these experiences because that is the only way it can comprehend the shift.

[Gandalf]

Yes. All dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections and out of body experiences are all facets of the same thing. The only thing that differs is your level of conscious awareness.

As for being 'all in the mind'. I would agree completely. It's just that you need to understand that there is a LOT MORE to 'the mind' than a lot of people realise... a lot more.

Frank's model for the Wider Reality will be posted on this forum shortly. I have been working on this for some time and will hopefully provide you with a detailed picture of where 'the mind' fits in with the bigger picture, that is - The Wider Reality.

Doug

[Goober]

Yes. All dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections and out of body experiences are all facets of the same thing. The only thing that differs is your level of conscious awareness.

As for being 'all in the mind'. I would agree completely. It's just that you need to understand that there is a LOT MORE to 'the mind' than a lot of people realise... a lot more.

Frank's model for the Wider Reality will be posted on this forum shortly. I have been working on this for some time and will hopefully provide you with a detailed picture of where 'the mind' fits in with the bigger picture, that is - The Wider Reality.

Doug

I look forward to it! 

[jilola]

I see that Gandalf managed to preempt my answer.

I'll add though, that our perceptual reality is not composed of discrete realms of perception but are a continuous whole we perceive from different vantage point at different times. This change in vantage point changes the perceived reality and we are in one instance in the wake life and in many others various degrees of what gets called Out-of Body (cast that in your preferred terminology).
The main point I'm trying to make is that what we perceive as the reality is not confined to the apparent physical and mental(mind) dichotomy. The two are equal and expressions of the same. The difference between a dream and waking life is that there is a perceived change of transiting from one to the other.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Paola]

Im with you guys!

What i question is, that if they are all projections of consciousness, then so is this living experience.  Strange realisation i know!

It has certainly changed my live, in and out of body!