where should I hold my gaze during noticing?

[gil-galad]

During the 'noticing' exercise, I close my eyes and focus on the blackness in front.
While looking at the blackness in front of closed eyes, where should I hold my gaze? I usualy keep my focus in the middle of my field of vision. However, I am not sure about the distance. There are several options:
1, Should I keep my focus at a point 1-2 feet away or only a few centimeters away?
3, Should I try to keep my focus right in front of my eyes, where my eyelids are?

I am asking this because during the 'noticing' exercise I either do not see anything behind my closed eyelids or find it difficult to ascertain the 'place'/'distance' where images appear (light patterns, dots, shapes (I am not talking about the more 'dreamlike' hipnagogic images)).
I usualy rub my closed eyes which causes some 'light activity' and try to remember where this activity takes place and keep my focus at that distance during the 'noticing'. This distance is quite close to my physical eyes. Is it all right to keep my focus here?

Does anyone have some suggestions?
Thanks

[Pauli2]

don't focus

[Summerlander]

I guess with the phasing method you don't really need to focus anywhere. Once you reach the hypnagogic state, imagery invades your field of vision. You will become aware of it and thus notice. Xanth can probably give you a better explanation of it.

Another way to enter the Phase state is by using the "wake back to bed" method where one usually separates from the body post vibrations. The reason for this method is to cause your body to reach the REM stage quicker than usual and become atonic while the mind is still very much aware.

[Xanth]

During the 'noticing' exercise, I close my eyes and focus on the blackness in front.

Don't focus on the blackness, just look at it. 

While looking at the blackness in front of closed eyes, where should I hold my gaze? I usualy keep my focus in the middle of my field of vision. However, I am not sure about the distance. There are several options:
1, Should I keep my focus at a point 1-2 feet away or only a few centimeters away?
3, Should I try to keep my focus right in front of my eyes, where my eyelids are?

Just "look" into it.  It doesn't matter where you look.

I am asking this because during the 'noticing' exercise I either do not see anything behind my closed eyelids or find it difficult to ascertain the 'place'/'distance' where images appear (light patterns, dots, shapes (I am not talking about the more 'dreamlike' hipnagogic images)).
I usualy rub my closed eyes which causes some 'light activity' and try to remember where this activity takes place and keep my focus at that distance during the 'noticing'. This distance is quite close to my physical eyes. Is it all right to keep my focus here?

You're putting waaaaaaaay too much thought into this. 
Just "look".  It's not any more or less complicated than that.

Try this...
Take a piece of blank, white paper and hold it up to your face.  Then stare at it.  Allow your gaze to drift around until it settles... then just hold that as best you can, allowing for slight further "drifting" of your gaze, because it's close to IMPOSSIBLE to hold it absolutely still on a single point.  Trying to hold it still is too much of a struggle that you'll probably lose in the end and get frustrated trying.  Finding the initial "settling" point is important, then just let it drift around slightly from there.  Once your gaze has settled, try looking for the impurities in the whiteness of the paper.  That's it. 

Now close your eyes and do the same thing... replacing the white of the paper with the black behind your eyelids.  The blackness won't be uniform, look for the un-uniformity. 

[gil-galad]

Thanks for the quick reply

If I understand it correctly, It doesn't matter where I hold my gaze. I just have to 'stare' into the darkness and try to be aware of any changes or differences in it.

[Xanth]

Thanks for the quick reply

If I understand it correctly, It doesn't matter where I hold my gaze. I just have to 'stare' into the darkness and try to be aware of any changes or differences in it.

Correct. 

Always passively observe.

[Contenteo]

Honestly, noticing always led me to frustration because of the broadness of the term. Xanth is on the money with the "passively observe" concept.

The way I become passive is visualize. I initiate things to passively observe. This helps me get there quicker.

On that note, I have always wondered if noticing was simply late stage method of noticing the random visualizations after a substantial F10 has been reached. And further, if the problem was people wern't hitting a deep F10 before they started their noticing. So, noticing could be the same exact thing as what I am talking about. Or it could be another approach. IDK. The term always seemed weak to me as a overarching strategy to phasing.


Cheers,
Contenteo

[Xanth]

"Passively Observe" pretty much means to just view with no passion towards what you're looking at.
When you see something, your reaction should be one of "meh"... and just keep looking.

[Astral316]

This always works for me... quickly switch your intent to falling asleep. Do you question where to place your eyes when you decide to fall asleep? Of course not, because it's not an issue. They'll just relax and you won't feel like you're looking in any one place. That's what you want, from my experience anyway. At that point resume your focus technique.

[Xanth]

This always works for me... quickly switch your intent to falling asleep. Do you question where to place your eyes when you decide to fall asleep? Of course not, because it's not an issue. They'll just relax and you won't feel like you're looking in any one place. That's what you want, from my experience anyway. At that point resume your focus technique.

^ Perfect.

[Jilt]

I'll be the lone dissenter here and state that focusing your eyes slightly up and center and out a few inches helps me stay in the 'mind awake' stage than if I don't focus at all (where I can easily slip into unconsciousness). The trick is to not strain your eyes while doing so.  There's something about the additional concentration that helps.

[Xanth]

I'll be the lone dissenter here and state that focusing your eyes slightly up and center and out a few inches helps me stay in the 'mind awake' stage than if I don't focus at all (where I can easily slip into unconsciousness). The trick is to not strain your eyes while doing so.  There's something about the additional concentration that helps.

Nono, don't get me wrong... what you suggest doing is also 100% valid. 

I probably should have made that clear... what I suggest above is what works for me.  I've also done what you've suggested, Jilt and it also works great.

The point I'm trying to make is that everyone is different and you really do need to tailor an exercise to your own needs and what works best for you.

Thank you Jilt for pointing that out. 

[Contenteo]

We can see even more instances of variation in Franks posts. Overall, he suggests the ideal place is wherever your eyes can can stay comfortable as you disconnect from your visual cortex. His two suggestions are looking way down or rolled all the way back up. (Yes, you can be comfortable there, I have tried it) He states the advantage of that is it is easier to hone in on your third eye with your eyes in that position. If I remember right he even suggests doing exercises to stretch the limits of your eye perimeters so you can assume this position easier.

Personally, I am with the majority who just ignores it and lets them fall wherever. I started getting results when I stopped focusing on the physical so much, including worrying if my eyes were in the right spot. So, honestly, just relax your eyes and allow your mind to drift. Just don't notice anything in the physical, because that will keep bringing you back.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[bluremi]

Also, try noticing what's happening in your entire field of vision, not just in the center. If you expand your attention to include your peripheral vision you will be forcing yourself to do this right.

[Contenteo]

I hate to contradict people, but I feel like I gotta throw a note on blu's comment, because focusing on things in your peripheral sounds like it could work in theory, but I fear that it could easily lead someone to believe that using your physical eyes to see is OK, when its not.

So two quick notes:

1. Be careful not to move you physical eyes to notice, in its traditional sense. The key here is shutting you visual cortex down, not using it.

2. With that said, when you visual cortex begins to "turn off," which is the marker for entering a F12 state, you are going to experience vastness, where you will be able to focus and see much more into your peripheral than normal, but again
I cannot vouch for the effectiveness of purposefully noticing in your peripheral, because I am so busy focused on easier things that will throw me into a F12 state, like daydreaming.

And a quick rant

Reiterating above, I hate the term noticing because of the visual implications alongside its broadness of interpretation. The term noticing is one of the things that screwed me up in my initial attempts at projection. Its good for training at WILDs, and starting down that road, but by the time you become proficient enough for it to be effective, I can confidently say, that there is a myriad of other things to occupy your mind that are loads better than focusing on simply "noticing." In that sense it seems worthless as a key term to be teaching people at their first times.

Yes, I could use the verb "noticing" to describe my attempts into the astral, but would much rather use other terms like, diverting my attention, or visualizing, or daydreaming, or focusing on phenomenon in order to distract myself from others. noticing is too broad of a term to be used for something that requires such specific action.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[bluremi]

I have found that when I used to practice this "noticing" stuff I would focus on my peripheral vision, and this would force my brain to do "passive noticing" as opposed to "active looking" just because the physical act of keeping your eyes still and being aware of sensory data is basically the exact mindset you're trying to cultivate. A sort of passive, curious awareness.

Eventually my brain would start injecting colors and shapes and then finally concrete objects and scenes. It was a smooth transition from physical vision to "metaphysical" as Cententeo calls it.