Drinking/smoking weed/other substances

[HindSight]

What are your thoughts about how different substances affects your ability to induce AP/ alter AP experience? Or if any would help to AP or what would completely prevent an AP?

From what iv read online most people say that it's better to AP clear minded, and that substances 'muddies' your aura, but some people say otherwise. Just preference I presume, but I want to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks.

[Astralzombie]

I know the search results usually suck but did you even try on this?

Come on, one time, try it.

[Stillwater]

Yes, there are 120 topics in the archives where this question is asked, maybe twice that even.

Short answer... it depends very much on the substance in question. People tend to lump them all into one giant category called "drugs" and want a blanket answer for all of them. Would you do this with other nouns? For instance, would you ask if "animals" are dangerous? Depends very much on the animal, and in what circumstances and context.

You don't need them to project. A small number of herbs may assist slightly, but none of them is the magic bullet. Anything like alcohol or other depressants will generally work against you, because you are seeking an alert frame of mind, and those substances run counter to that goal. Some of the hallucinogens get you to a similar place as a projection (albeit with far less control), but their safe use is another topic completely.

[HindSight]

Aha yes. I have tried the search, it's usually far from what I'm looking for.

Have you ever tried to have a drink or two then project? Does it make it harder or easier to AP? How is it different from a sober AP? More/less vivid? More/less control?

I'm just curious, i would try it myself but I have yet to induce an AP 

[Szaxx]

I find the best drink to aid you is water throughout the day. Then nothing to eat or drink for a couple of hours before.
Anything else and you're wearing reality blinkers.
Look at shrooms. You don't even need sleep, your reality is messed up.
Unreal, false and forced attempts will only give you a bad interpretation of the real realities.
You may get messy pants if  its a real scarey experience.
 

Stay on course,
Don't use force.

Ta-da..
That line wasn't expected.

[Astralsuzy]

I think it could help you ap but what is the point in doing it.   When I ap I want to have good quality ap experiences.   I am not interested in aping a lot and having rubbish experiences.  I would rather have less ap experiences that are really worthwhile.   I want to be aware and have a really good time.   I want to be in control.   If you take substances it would likely make your mind muddled.  You would more likely to imagine things that are not real and end up in a dream.

[HindSight]

So you wouldn't just try it out of curiosity? I wouldn't rely on such things to help me AP, I was just curious to see, in the experienced APers mind, what differed if one was to have a drink/puff before an AP.

[Jude101]

From some one that has been trough a single intense Astral and done [A]yahuasca(one of the strongest Psychedelics out there)I would have to say there are both in completely different levels. It literally is a whole entire life time of meditation condense into 4-8hours and could only be done by a strong and determined mind. My verdict is that I feel as if a sober mind definitely has more control while out of body, but don't get me wrong under [A]yahuasca I was completely ripped out of my body and shown what being a soul was all about. As I always say, these tools should never be abuse or disrespected. These are teachers and guides and shouldn't be used for daily or even monthly use...

[Astralzombie]

I believe that some people can have an "eye opening" experience from certain drugs that make them aware of the wider reality but it would be far from positive if the person continues to rely on them for the experience.

There are certain herbs and supplements, which are just euphemisms for the word drug, that many people have reported to be extremely helpful.

I do not know the name of any of them offhand but a simple search on and offsite should reveal many of them.

Ayahausca is in a category that I put in there with peyote and a few other hallucinogens that have been very important to the religious practices of certain indigenous tribes around the world. I think the weirdest one that I have heard about is a tribe in the Amazon that lick the backs of a certain tree frog and get an intense trip. I would never demean these practices as I understand the importance of the role that these drugs have in their cultures. Of course, they are always taken under the supervision of a shaman or a  medicine man.

Ayahausca is actually becoming a big business for some tribes that cater to the loco gringos that want to have a trip of a lifetime. As far as I know, there have been a few reported deaths but these were all due to extreme dehydration that the constant puking caused and represented a very low risk statistically speaking.

It's on my bucket list. I think I can handle the journey very well as I have been having frequent OOBE for over 13 years now but I understand that the difference is still immense. I am only referring to the mental aspect as far as me being able to handle it and not the physical. I'm sure I would be a puker.

Everyone must make their own decisions but I fair comfortable in saying that drug use for any reason is discouraged as a general policy of the pulse but it is not looked down on.

[funkyleggs]

Hello !

Have any of you heard about Terrence McKenna ?
This man (who died in 2000) is an ethnobotanist and advocate of the psychedelic experience. He argues loads of points on why the psychedelic experience (using entheogenes only such as DMT, shrooms, mescaline, salvia,..) could help our society.

He also thinks that the reality created by the psychedelic experience could in fact be part the "wider reality", and not just a "sens illusion".
He also argues that DMT can helps entering an alternate reality, but keeping all the cognitive capacity intact at the same time.

I've never tried DMT, i'd like to though.
Anyway, would it be that impossible that entheogenes could actually help us access states of consciousness enabling us to access the wider reality ?

Fun fact: he didn't believe in out of body experiences, it was to weird of a thing for him to rap his head around

If you don't know him or listened to what he has to say i think you should. He's really interesting to listen to !

Best audio "The tree of Knowledge" is a 10H workshop, which pretty much sums up the core of his work.
ENJOY !

[HindSight]

So any use of substances would impede the validity of the experience, compared to the sober mind? Someone who's an experienced APer, has a couple drinks/puffs, then successful projects. What's different between the sober AP (duration, recall, control...ect) compared to the AP accompanied by substances? Not saying get right blasted, just enough to feel the effects on the mind. What differs between the two?

I'm not talking about totally mind altering drugs, just the more common recreational ones.

[Szaxx]

Without them your conciousness is connected to your awareness.
Using them this connection becomes detached and things can turn wierd, thats if you can remember them.

[Rakkso]

Weed shortens your REM cycles. I can say I've had a good recall of vivid dreams, even if I smoked the night before, but only the, vivid dreams, your awareness won't be sufficiently aware in order to become lucid and even harder to fully project.

Now this is just based on my experience, I've had many dreams I can recall them even having had some the nigh before, but very few lucid dream (and I've never had this after smoked) , and none a single full astral projection or phasing attempt.

Even I'm considering to end it for a time and see if I can progress.
I won't talk about alcohol, I just consider it a waste of time. It won't help not even a little bit in my opinion.
Hope this answers your question.

[Jude101]

So any use of substances would impede the validity of the experience, compared to the sober mind? Someone who's an experienced APer, has a couple drinks/puffs, then successful projects. What's different between the sober AP (duration, recall, control...ect) compared to the AP accompanied by substances? Not saying get right blasted, just enough to feel the effects on the mind. What differs between the two?

I'm not talking about totally mind altering drugs, just the more common recreational ones.

 

Regarding your question, what a dream is a dose of DMT(Dimethyltrytamine) in your brain produce by your pineal gland. When any of us have an AP we produce more DMT then normally produce by your brain. Cannabis or Alcohol or any lower level drugs would enhance your effect. But not in a natural way, you will be more disorientated and unfocused. You might go in seeing the profound effects that any of these drugs do, you will most likely be shown that they are not required. You will be going to a place that the truth is absolute. I say try it and see how you feel, every body is diffrent, what works for some might not work for others. As far the validity, your the only one responsible to validate your reality, so in a way what ever you experince would have a purpose to you.

[Astralzombie]

Personally, I would discount the validity of any drug induced OOBE that I have but that's just my own standard.

My opinion is that hallucinogens just dim or turn off the part of our brain that "grounds" us in this physical reality. What that means is that I believe that drugs are not actually producing hallucinations so much as they are just allowing you to experience two realities at once which can scare the crap out of many or just confuse the heck out of most.

A great OOBE is when you have your complete awareness and have the ability to know what is happening as well as the control to end it when needed. Drugs put you in for the long ride and deny the user full control as well as ending the experience until the effects wear off.

If you're an adult, then I say do what you please. If your a youngster, then I must ask what the heck are you thinking.

[HindSight]

Aaah ok so even to the experienced projecter, the use of any kind of drugs would not make the AP more enjoyable?

[Szaxx]

Anything that takes the concious 'you' away from your awareness of what you're experiencing is a no brainer.
We would all be on crystal meth legally if it worked to a great advantage.
The facts are in this physical reality.
Drink driving, no pot head wins formula 1 races... The list is endless.

On other threads some can't drink coffee...

See where this is going.

The shamanic rituals are NOT included in the above.

[CFTraveler]

I know the search results usually suck but did you even try on this?

Come on, one time, try it.

The best search results happen when you do it the second time.

[Astralzombie]

The best search results happen when you do it the second time.

I was just teasing with a dash or seriousness thrown in there for good measure.

Anyhoo, things change, members come and go so there's nothing wrong with asking the same old question if you're interested in what the current members think and not the junior high kids that ruled this forum 8-9 years ago.

Personally, I would delete all those old threads that were talking about dragon ball z silliness. Utter nonsense.

[Szaxx]

If there's any kind of spam in 'em, say bye bye.

[Stillwater]

Anyhoo, things change, members come and go so there's nothing wrong with asking the same old question if you're interested in what the current members think and not the junior high kids that ruled this forum 8-9 years ago.

Personally, I would delete all those old threads that were talking about dragon ball z silliness. Utter nonsense. grin

Lol you get frustrated reading it? I was here for all of that, haha.

I remember there was a poster named "KiBeginnersNightmare" or something very close to that, who would post every week looking for ways to shoot energy balls so he could conquer his enemies... in the physical world, haha. And then next week we would get the update about exactly how big the energy balls he was tossing were just then, or that he was now interested in shooting balls while levitating.

i would like to know if any body has any moves they could teach me . if so u teach me ur move and ill teach u mine

That is a gem circa 2003 or so.

[CFTraveler]

My point was a little different, not really about the 'search' feature.
I looked at the thread a little differently than y'all, maybe because I've seen these types of threads so many times, and they all go the same way.

[TwixxDreams]

Well, i think i have a little info on this topic. This morning i had my first OOBE. But before i layed down to go to bed at 12pm, i smoked a bowl of marijuana. So, it doesnt keep you from projecting, but note, in this period, i realise i had floated out of my body so i turned around to see if i was there, and there where afew items in my room were not in the room i was seeing,including my body! Yet i could see the vhs tapes that are under my bed and afew other things that are under it... Maybe it "Muddied" My vision? Maybe not. But just my two cents.

[CFTraveler]

Well, i think i have a little info on this topic. This morning i had my first OOBE. But before i layed down to go to bed at 12pm, i smoked a bowl of marijuana. So, it doesnt keep you from projecting, but note, in this period, i realise i had floated out of my body so i turned around to see if i was there, and there where afew items in my room were not in the room i was seeing,including my body! Yet i could see the vhs tapes that are under my bed and afew other things that are under it... Maybe it "Muddied" My vision? Maybe not. But just my two cents.

And, if you didn't write it down, would you remember it a week from now?

[HindSight]

When I used to smoke weed... I couldn't remember yesterday ahah