She grabbed me by the arm!

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RisingSon

Odd little projection last night.  I woke into a trance - no vibrations as such, but I was fully in "mind awake, body asleep".  I remember thinking, "I really want to get out this time", so instead of waiting for the separation process to begin, I simple asked for assistance.  I yelled, "take me out of here!"  At that an actual hand came out from under the bed, grabbed me by the wrist and literally pulled me bodily downward through the futon and into another level below.  Needless to say I wasn't expecting that!  I found myself next to this woman - it was dark and hard to see her face clearly and her hair was pulled somewhat over her face anyway.  She immediately began to profess her deep love for me and that worried me a bit - it was like she knew me for a long time and I hadn't a clue who the hell she was.  Then she moved away from me.  At that moment I noticed how dark this new level was, almost black, but I could see everything.  Then a boy showed up, maybe around 10 years old.  He said several things to me, but I don't remember what exactly.  At this point I began to feel uncomfortable.  The surroundings were gloomy - from what I could tell I was in a house and the boy and the woman were related, perhaps mother and son.  The whole feeling turned decidedly depressing, like these people were really unhappy.  They weren't threatening, just unhappy.  I felt a strong desire to leave, so I yelled, "go through the ceiling".  My first try I failed and the boy said loudly, "he's trying to go through the ceiling again!"  The next time I was successful and found myself back in my bed, but I fell asleep almost immediately.

Couple things; when I project I always seem to end up in dark places or in worlds of twilight (RTZ?).  When I have lucid dreams it is quite different, usually those places are very interesting and full strange and wonderful beings, guides, amazing landscapes, even "heavenly" realms.  So what gives here?  Why are my projected experiences so dark while my other dreamed experiences just the opposite?  Thoughts?

missym

How long have you been having conscious projections?
I've read that for the first while that you have projections you will generally be on the lower Astral planes, and gradually you will be able to move on to the higher planes.
Bring into play the divine within you, so on the stage of life you can fulfill your high destined role.

RisingSon

Thanks for the response.  I've been purposely trying astral projection since last September.  Lucid dreaming for many years longer.  I too have heard that early on projectors find themselves stuck on the lower astral, especially the RTZ, often not getting beyond their bedrooms for the first few months or even longer.  I just wanted to hear what long term projectors thought about "my problem" and possible solutions.

OFFtheGround

wow - that sounds scary. i've never experienced anything like that.

i started APing involuntarily and spontaneously before i knew what the term astral projection was.

i always have pleasant experiences - i never see anyone - and i don't travel to far away places.

i've never had anyone grab me or anything of the like. i just float above myself and go from there...


Greytraveller

Rising Son

Your unease is understandable. Do you remember being at that place before?
Next time you meet either or both the woman and boy it might make sense to ask them a few questions. Things like, "Who are you?", "How do you know me?", "Where is this place?" Of course they may not answer, or give false answers. Still it could be worth a try.  :?

Regards  8-)
Grey

Metaphysically born

Yeah i remember the first time that i went out. It actually happened several times that i would exit and immediately find myself in front of a wall. The wall is dirty and looked like those at schools that has been unattended to for a long time. Looks like water were running down the wall for years. It had this green slime on it that you would find in ponds(pools of water) where frogs live. Just staring at this wall made me feel afraid like i was facing my biggest fear at that time. The fear became uncontrollable and kept increasing unto the point  where i was pulled back. This happened more than 5 times and i still do not know what obstacle in my life was. That must have been an unknown fear of mine that manifested itself in the form of that dirty wall on the astral. How i got over that obstacle is unknown but the wall were gone for some reason at my other attempts. The first time when you project then your energy is much the same as it is now being within this reality and the energy of the lower astral is in sync with this one. For that reason the lower astral entities was able to communicate with you and that is why you found yourself there. The vibrational state you are in in your first attempts is a low vibrational energy that is in sync with them and therefore it also is possible for them affect you on an emotional level by making you scared. As you progress with your attempts to project; your vibrational energy gradually rises which then allow you to project to the higher astral realms because your vibrational energy and the higher astral realm you now find yourself in is now vibrating on the same level and are in sync. It will only be a matter of time until you move on to the higher realms. For now ask those entities questions but keep your emotions under control because fearing drops your vibrational sate and makes you more in sync with those lower astral entities which will make it easier for them to scare you. 

RisingSon

Grey and Meta, I think I did ask questions to the boy, but for the life of me I don't remember the exchange.  In my OBE attempts over the last 6 months fear hasn't been a very strong emotion, that is, I've managed to keep my emotions under control.  Having said that, they mostly remain dark and pretty low energy.  Only twice did they feel creepy and this last one was one of them. I will continue to work with whatever I find there and I really want to remember to use affirmations more - I am quite groggy in that state, fully awake, but groggy and I forget most of the time that I have the power to change my vibrational state - a real catch 22.  BTW, I don't remember ever having been to that place.

Chiron8

For many of those who lucid dream, their conscious mind first goes to rest when they fall asleep, and they start dreaming (non-lucidly). Because the conscious mind is at rest, it does not disturb the contents of the dream. This peaceful mental state can lead to the nicer dream environments that you mentioned. If the conscious mind is resting stably, the dream will probably become well structured, and organized, and the dreamer may distinguish him/herself from the dream environment, which, in turn, may lead to lucidity.

If you enter the astral plane, consciously, but you aren't comfortable with the various things you might experience there, I imagine you would naturally experience a level, that is close to the waking world. For those who, mainly, can only enter conscious experience of the astral by the first method, they are likely to lose lucidity when they encounter something that bothers them.

That's my theory, but, I'm not an expert.

JestersJINX

If you felt uncomfortable it sounds more of a lower plane experience.

When I first heard about projection, and the possibility of going to the lower plane, the fear actually stopped me from projecting for a very long time. I still can't properly project even though I feel no fear of it anymore.

How do you enter the astral consciously?
I've been remote viewing for several years, and met a few more who has been able to remote view. None of us seem to have success with astral projection.
We have an underground river that flows north, a few miles away from where we live. The energy feels strange, dark, and uncomfortable. Would this be any way of a block in any kind of psychic aspect?

Chiron8

For me, personally; I can only consciously experience the astral, by slowly adapting to that feel of consciousness, by dreaming for an extended period of time. I've only had one experience that was a full blown astral projection (though, from a young age, I've had lots of vivid, and-or lucid dreams).

When I experienced AP; first it was a dream. Then, as my mind settled in, the dream started to become more fully defined, and I started to gain awareness. It was a quite strongly projected dream at that point, but then there was a quantum shift in my experience as I attained unison with my astral body. I felt fully present, and as aware as I do while awake. The world became more vast and completely defined.

It was very intense. I was looking over an seemingly-endless ocean, and sky, with eyes that could see 360 degrees around. My body became weightless, and I rocketed into the sky. I was flying so fast, beyond my control, so after holding it for a short while, I shifted back to my physical body, and woke up.

Anyways, maybe you are trying too hard? Sometimes, our efforts get in the way of achieving the thing that we are making an effort to achieve. One of the best things we can do to encourage lucid dreams, is to work on developing a healthy, daytime, lifestyle. The way we live, during the day, can determine how much, and what type of energy we have for dreaming, and whether or not we are willing to be conscious of it. Things like developing confidence, or good relationships with people, will give you advantages in the dream, such as ease of concentration.

horaciocs

Quote from: RisingSon on March 22, 2010, 18:00:53
Grey and Meta, I think I did ask questions to the boy, but for the life of me I don't remember the exchange.  In my OBE attempts over the last 6 months fear hasn't been a very strong emotion, that is, I've managed to keep my emotions under control.  Having said that, they mostly remain dark and pretty low energy.  Only twice did they feel creepy and this last one was one of them. I will continue to work with whatever I find there and I really want to remember to use affirmations more - I am quite groggy in that state, fully awake, but groggy and I forget most of the time that I have the power to change my vibrational state - a real catch 22.  BTW, I don't remember ever having been to that place.
When you go into places like those, dark, creepy or depressing, you're on the lower dimensions (1st or 2nd). In order to avoid those places, you have to work on improving your mood/state of mind.

For instance, if you let yourself get carried away by day-to-day worries and get depressed / low on self-steem regularly, when you project you'll end up in the lower astral surely. (Actually, this affects your life all the time, when awake you'll attract other negative beings to you - you're being negative yourself, like attracts alike).

You have to work on setting the right mood when trying to project. Be happy, at least during your projection attempts :) Working on that will help you in all areas of your life.


Horacio.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
than are dreamt of in your philosophy"


I've created a blog of some sort: http://pursuingconscience.blogspot.com/

RisingSon

So, if I'm reading this correctly, perhaps I'm too depressed, upset, and trying too hard in normal life to have a higher level projection?  Interesting.  Certainly I can see the relationship between the waking state and other states of being, but is it necessarily so one to one?  In other words, if I were a depressed and upset person in this reality frame then must I be so in other frames as well?

Concerning the difference in my dreaming state and projections, I'm still a bit confused about the extremely different perspectives.  I dream a lot - every night - and mostly these are interesting and sometimes delightful experiences.  On the other hand my projections are few - maybe I've only had a handful of them so far - and I have purposely tried to induce them, though some have come spontaneously during this "effort" period (the last 6 months only).  So the question is, if a dream is "in my head" only and AP is "really out there", then why such a big difference in my experiences?  Is this strictly due to daily life - moods, habits, energy level, preoccupations, etc. - or maybe I'm just not a very good projector, that is, I haven't found the right doorway yet?

Please do keep the input coming, it is interesting and useful.  Thanks!

Chiron8

Anger, fear, sadness, greed, lust, and the list goes on. All of those things are mental contaminants that rob us of a more fulfilling view of reality. We, as humans, can't overcome those unskillful mental qualities by repressing them, so we must face them and learn to understand them. During the day, in the physical world, we have certain opportunities, and dreaming can also be an excellent interface for dealing with issues in our lives.

Humans are physical beings, as well as emotional, mental, and spiritual. We must take care of ourselves on all those levels. My intuition is that our astral body is interconnected with our physical body (and all our other bodies). A being in the astral, who is not manifest in the physical, will probably notice a difference in the astral body of a human.

But, I'm kinda getting away from the point.



Chiron8

#13
Back to what you were asking.

One element of dreaming is "dream magnitude" (I'll call it). We can project dreams weakly or strongly, depending on the energy we have. When the projection becomes strong enough, the experience becomes well articulated, and stable. Instead of a garble of ideas, images and feelings, everything goes into place, and can be perceived as an environment, in which you are located. The interesting point there is, when it is projected as such, you can distinguish yourself from the environment.

There's also the whole issue of other entities and impressions made by others in the astral, but that is complicated, and I can't really explain it, though it seems to be an important part of the astral.

One aspect of dreams, that I think a lot of people understand is: the issues in a persons life determine the content of the dream. Sometimes, the issues are obvious, sometimes they seem more abstract. The more lucidity, the more control over the experience. (which I can see as being a good thing, or a bad thing)

Awareness is the element you are interested in. I think that being aware in dreams has to do with desire and aversion habits. If a person is used to bending their perspective of reality, to suit their wants, or to quell things they are adverse to (which pretty much everyone does, to some extent, in the physical world), they won't be able to maintain awareness on the astral level. If a person strongly represses their thoughts and feelings, as a habit, they will rarely remember their dreams.

For AP, both awareness, and sufficient energy, are needed. These two things are actually connected. A person with healthy energy, doesn't need to fear or repress what he/she sees. Meditation is a tool for developing both concentration (which creates energy), and awareness. In the types of meditation that I think are intended for the best purposes, both concentration, and awareness, are cultivated in balance with each other. Awareness gives us a fulfilling perspective of reality, and helps prevent us from misusing our energy, and concentration/energy empowers awareness.

bakingpowder

I have experienced being in a RTZ in an OOBE that was spontaneous. There were entities, but I was too absorbed in my own state (was wondering what was happening coz that was when I did not know about OOBE).

I remembered I knew it was there and it was talking to me, but perhaps i ignored "it". It had said something like "Oh, you are out again."

What you have experienced was my fear of OOBE, which perhaps has willed me away from unsuccessful attempts after my one and only conscious exit. I am right now staying in this house, where my son reportedly saw black shadows/figure.  Once there were even physical contact! While playing he was hit on the back while no one was behind him. He even told me he saw a dog in my bathroom, while explaining to me that it was not a real dog, but like a soul of a dog.

I was so afraid that if I were to have a conscious exit to this RTZ, I would be on a level where I can see all these entities, and it would probably scare the hell out of me.

Louise43

I've just finished reading Frank Kepple's stuff and realise that most, if not all of my projections and lucid dreams have been in F2, my own personal astral, and I don't think I have ever gotten out of there.  Having read Frank's stuff I think I need to work on not getting caught up in my own little dramas on the astral so I can move to F3 but that is easier said than done!

Do you think this may be the case here?  Not the RTZ things but the other experiences such as the woman and the boy in the house?

I have phased to the astral a few times but each time it seems to have been just my own little world with my own little creations as opposed to the collective experience of F3 although it is only since reading Frank's stuff that this has dawned on me.  :roll: :-D


Chiron8

#16
I just woke up from a dream, in which I experienced, probably, a similar kind of uneasy eeriness as RisingSon described. Having my memory refreshed on what that part of the astral can be like, I now remember clearly just how uncomfortable that can be.

I was in an abandoned-feeling school with a few people, I wasn't focusing too much on them so they were quite static. The lighting was dim, and someone was screaming in the background, about being hurt by someone. I wanted to leave, so I anxiously went down some stairs towards a door that leads outside, but as I feared would happen, I attracted the attention of the one who the screaming person was screaming about. I looked up, and a ghost-like person floated in through a closed window, and started to taunt and threaten me. Then I woke up.  

It was an F2 level experience (I don't like thinking in terms of this system really, but since people are familiar with it around here...).

I feel that dream-situations like this are brought about by the unskillful thoughts/behavior of the dreamer. In this case, before the dream took a turn for the worse, I remember acting quite frivolously. One of the people I was in the school with, was telling me about some academic achievement of theirs, and my response was along the lines of: Oh, I just flunked out of that class, it doesn't matter *laughing flippantly*. That's when the scenario darkened.