Elysium Battlefield

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Telos

This is yet another case where I projected from a dream without knowing it was a dream in the first place, which leads me to a conclusion regarding my methods of AP study. But first, the experience.

I was dreaming of being in a classroom and listening to a classmate's speech about plants. It was extremely lengthy, filled with pauses, and would have been engaging if I had not already known most of it. For the record, the classmate was no one I knew in physical life, neither was anyone else for the entire length of the dream/AP. So, I decided to try for a projection, while sitting in my chair.

I was beholden how immediately successful I was at attaining a conscious projection. Since I had been wishing I was somewhere else (like home) instead of that classroom, I found myself floating around the side of my house. Considering my success, I completely neglected to ask for any guides, and decided to try integrating into F27. I flew upwards towards the sky, and for the purpose of experiment, I inverted myself - so that the sky would appear like the ground and I would "fall" towards it.

After some intense feeling, I closed my eyes and felt a transition. I fell gently into a large green pasture, surrounded mostly by forrest. There were an incredible number of clovers, decorating the texture of the ground. The sky was somewhat grey and cloudy, like it had just rained or it was going to rain, similar to pictures I have seen of the British Isles.

I looked around for people. There was a large group of children, joyously running past me and lining up near the trees. Were they going to play a game? I looked at the ones lining up first - all boys, somewhere between 6 and 9 years old. I looked behind me again, and the girls were catching up, although some of them were walking along with an adult male, happily enamored with him. Of course, it reminded me of a class and their teacher on some kind of "field trip." This made implicit sense to me, for what better field trip would their be than to the Elysium Fields?

"Hey!" I said over to the teacher, trying to get his attention. He was busy with his students, so I felt kind of bad to bother him. He recognized me and yelled back, saying it was good to see me.

So as to not illicit a confirmation bias, as in a normal dream, I asked him an open-ended question. "What is this place?"

He spoke, as if giving a lesson in history. "This was a battlefield."

A what?

"Against who?" I said.

He laughed. "The other side!"

I was terribly confused. I most certainly could not have been in the Elysium Fields if violence once occurred here. He proceeded to give a small lecture to me on the tactical situations, motioning his hands over the boundary of the forrest, as if this "other side" attacked from the other side of the forrest. He spoke very comfortably and serenely. I stopped listening because I was just too confused. Elysium Battlefield? That doesn't make any sense.

I shortly "awoke" back in the same dream I was having previously. The dream environment then shifted as dreams normally do and I was completely oblivious. The characters remained the same. A classmate of mine giving a long speech about plants, and everyone being very tired. Of course, most of them started to shift as well.

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It may be unrelated, but afterwards when everyone was leaving (it was night) I noticed my classmate walking alone. I did not notice it on a conscious level, but she was the only one who had remained the same throughout the entire dream. In this particular dream, she was not a classmate that I was friends with, but I went to go speak with her anyways. "Are you okay?"

"Nobody liked my speech."

"That's not true," I said. I wanted to tell her that I still liked what she had been saying, even though I already knew it. I also very much wanted to tell her what a profound effect her speech had on me - it was my first immediately conscious projection. Something in the speech must've been stimulating me in the right way. I wanted to tell her about the Elysium Fields, and how her life is actually so beautiful and very wonderful. But I did not know how to communicate this simply.

The dream fluctuated in some other fashion. A car accident or something. "I better get home," she said. And that was that. I never even knew her name.

--------------

Anyways, regardless of the authenticity of the "Elysium Battlefield," I no longer think I should be attempting wake-induced projections, even during the night. They just conflict too much with the experience of doing it in a dream, which otherwise seems real. In order to further my knowledge of wider reality and its implications for physical reality, I'm just going to back to my regular old lucid dream studies.

[Edit: fixed a modal error... damned modal demons]

Smilodon29A

Lol very interesting experience.

Thanks for sharing:)
If it weren't for the last minute, nothing would get done.
      --Anonymous
There cannot be a crisis next week.  My schedule is already full.
      --Henry Kissinger

Telos

I just did some reading and I think I can offer my own explanation.

The Elysian Fields was where warriors would go after leading heroic lives. So they probably would have died in the battlefield (which is an engagement with "the other side").

So I was probably still in Focus 3 of consciousness, not yet having a successful transition to "the other side."

What a shame. I bet the teacher would've taken me if I asked him nicely.

(no problem, Smiliodon, thanks for reading)

rowofmushytit

QuoteI no longer think I should be attempting wake-induced projections
Sure, wake-induced projections are harder to achieve but are intensely more satisfying. After all remembering to AP from a dream or LD is not very reliable.

The ultimate attainment is to AP at will, and later to be able to perceive both worlds simultaneously. Don't be a dreamer, strive to be a warrior.
you'll never entirely understand yourself, since your mind, like any other closed system, can only be sure of what it knows about itself by relying on what it knows about itself[/color]

Telos

QuoteSure, wake-induced projections are harder to achieve but are intensely more satisfying.

I'm not sure about this. Some have been nice for me, but others have been very difficult to control... blurred vision, darkness, etc. And I seem to remember being most fond of the realization that I am dreaming, as I am dreaming.

QuoteAfter all remembering to AP from a dream or LD is not very reliable.

You think so? I think they used to be very reliable for me, but my forays into conscious AP studies have made me put them in the background and therefore passively treat them as unreliable.

Ach, it's so complicated. Because conscious projections usually involve some kind of suspension of will, so "projecting at will" takes on an uncomfortably oxymoronic tone.

rowofmushytit

QuoteYou think so?
yes. Sometimes i don't dream for weeks on end - then what am i supposed to do? When i do start dreaming then i have to remember to AP, which can be hard as dreams have a way of passively lulling you along. Then when you do get it right, experiences can be largely fantasy.

Wake-induced AP's are definitely more convincing as being real, because of the direct transition from reality to astral. Yet, the experiences are less lucid for starters. Yes, it is so complicated.
Quotesuspension of will
Yeah, till the vibrations set in - then it requires a powerful will from your central chakra to pull you out.
Feels like a metal stake going through your body. It is a strange thing concept that the will comes from your chakra and not your mind - the mind just interferes with the chakras when its 'spotlight' touches them.
The practice of Qi Gong helps clarify this.
you'll never entirely understand yourself, since your mind, like any other closed system, can only be sure of what it knows about itself by relying on what it knows about itself[/color]

Gandalf

Hi Telos_

thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like it may well be F27!  From what you describe, the region sounds a bit different from my 'green fields' region but that may just be a different region of the area of consciousness that Monroe terms F27.

F27 seems to encompass a wide range of enviroments, a HUGE range in fact, although there are several 'landmark' areas which are more well known because people have reported them and came back to tell the tale.. such areas include 'the park' as i have described before, while there are also complexes, institutes, you might call them for specific interests, like the 'life review centre', the 'hospital' and so on... however there is also a massive variety of other regions and landscapes there, knowingly created by the inhabitants; the region you visited may be one of them...
The reason I think it was a focus 27 enviroment was that you had the impression of a class of some sort, in this case for children... now classes for all sorts of people can be found all over the f27 region.. as f27 is where there is a lot of research and learning going on all the time, the important difference between this area and other more restricted areas of consiousnesss of course, is that all the myriad realms in F27 are knowingly created by the inhabitants who are all aware of their 'deceased' status (from our perspective)... its the place to go!

I wonder if you had any sense of atmosphere when you were there, as this would identify F27... I can always tell when i have arrived because there is a definate positive atmosphere pervading everything.. you can feel it..almost electric.. i think its actually the power of what we call Love, the driving force of the universe, as it manifests through F27 so much more clearly than in our distorted level of awareness. Did you pick up anything like that? I think it may be possible to be unaware of that and filter it out to some extent, particularly if you were intensly focused on what was going on around you... look out for the 'positive vibes' next time though and see if you notice anything.


About the lucid dreaming vs wake-induced method: I am also like you in that my training in trying to reach focused states from full awareness is so difficult that i feel i'm not getting anywhere with it most of the time, but reaching such levels from waking within a dream state, or lucid dreaming as its called.. now thats a different story and I have done much of my exploring on the hop when i have been lucky enough to 'wake up' within a dream.. this happens at least once a week.. each time i raise my awareness higher...

but one important point is that no matter what training you do lucid wise... and no matter how 'awake' you feel, you will always only ever be a max of 99% aware... there will always be that niggling  1% missing which means that you are 'not all there' so you end up cursing yourself later when you think back and say.. why didnt i do such and such... THAT is the limitation of lucid dreaming.. you have sacrificed some of your awareness to make it easier, but it comes back to bite you in the butt.

The only way to get 100% is by *starting* with 100%... this is the HARD way, but from what I have been told that extra 1% makes a BIG difference.

Put it this way, you want to be in an enviroment which is as 100% real as you are in now sitting in front of this monitor? and be 100% aware as you are right now? Then you have to go there from 100% awake.. then you will find that these regions feel as exactly *real* as yourself and your physical wide awake, stone cold sober world does right now. Its the only way, from lucid states everything will always be just short of 100% real.

Of course, keep up with the lucid dreaming! If you ever wake up within a dream then of course make use of it as much as you can, I always do, but do consider continuing with the wake-induced focus training at some point.

Doug
*goes back to the wake-induced focus training....again*  :wink:
"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

Frank

Telos:

I concur with Doug. I think what you have offered yourself is again the experience of a shift between various areas of consciousness. By the sounds of it you began at F2oC and Phased to F1oC (RTZ) and directly transitioned to F3oC and back to F2oC again.

The one thing that tells me you were focused within F3oC was the joke the guy said about the other side. That showed a very high degree of independence in thought-release-lucidity which is typical of people within the higher branches of this area. Not all, because many people are engaged in all manner of belief constructs. But from the circumstances you describe I am certain you Phased to Focus 3oC (again).

In Monroe terms, as I say, I concur with Doug. Sounds *very* Focus 27 to me. Which would be what I would call the top branches of Focus 3oC.

Yours,
Frank

Potatis

What about when people in a dream seem to say things that you normally couldn't think of yourself? Could they be independant thinking beings?

2 nights ago I woke in the middle of the night from a dream, laughing my head off. Someone was telling me something, and I didn't understand the joke he made the first time, and when he explained it, it was so clever and funny that once I got it I burst out laughing, and woke up laughing. It woke my fiancee up, she wanted to know why I was laughing.

I immediately thought that I could not have thought of it because I didn't get the joke straight away, only after it was more clearly explained. I'm not as clever as that with jokes when awake. I wondered if it was a separate entity I was talking to?

Potatis

Telos

Thank you so much, Gandalf and Frank. You guys are awesome.

Gandalf, after reading MajorTom's thread about finding ways to describe the Focus 10 --> 12 transition, I think I will have to take your suggestion and not give up on wake-induced experiences. There is much to do.

Frank, I'm even more accepting of the FoC now after the experiences of discontinuing and then re-continuing an otherwise continuous F2oC experience. It suggests that different parts of consciousness are present but "asleep" in their respective areas. Very interesting.

Potatis, what was the joke? ;)

rowofmushytit

QuoteThe only way to get 100% is by *starting* with 100%... this is the HARD way, but from what I have been told that extra 1% makes a BIG difference.
nicely put gandalf.

I have been experiencing a new method. I start lucid dreaming, then decide to look at my hands, feel the vibrations and feel the 'astral wind'. But, then i return to my body in full conciousness but i take the vibrations from the LD. Then i project from there, and have a 100% experience. Nice if you stuggle with the concious method, but are a pro at LD, and you want that 100% experience.

This is why i believe LD is not true AP.

Also, lately because of wake-induced AP's it's like i've taken back into reality a perception of the astral. I am more intuative to people's thoughts, can sense disturbances, and feel my astral body within (Qi?), and sometimes if i close my eyes feel vibrations, etc. Even when i look at my hands in reality, i get a strange feeling like in a LD, like reality is no different anyway and power flows all the same. I have also been able to project just my hand, while fully awake -hectic. After a LD, you can definitley feel you have brought back something with you - you feel refreshed and feel energy eminating from you.
I mean these two worlds co-exist, so enlightment must mean to SEE both simultaneously and understand? Its a long journey. FUBAR.
you'll never entirely understand yourself, since your mind, like any other closed system, can only be sure of what it knows about itself by relying on what it knows about itself[/color]

Potatis

Telos, the "joke" is hard to remember absolutely 100%, but I pretty much remember it. I can tell you the joke was about a woman's name. I didn't know any of the people in the dream. But I was gathered with several people and they laughed when a guy said what some woman's name was. I didn't get why they laughed, so I asked. When the guy explained and I saw words appear like subtitles in a film, except one at a time, in the position you'd see them in a film. (At the bottom of what I was looking at).

The first word was definately "Israel". Then appeared another two words (The woman's name) beside that word which were chopped up bits of Israel. Something like Ira Seli or Ira Sel.

The man never said the word "Israel", it just appeared on it's own. He then said "Ira Sel" or something similar, I can't 100% remember but it was like this. One at a time those words appeared next to "Israel" as the man said them so it looked like this:

Israel Ira Sel

He said "Ira Sel. She's a Jew!" and I burst out laughing. When I read it back now it doesn't seem so funny. But there was something clever about seeing the words like this without me seemingly thinking it up. The first time he said the name, it went over my head. I know I still would not have got the "joke" if I didn't SEE the words, especially the word "Israel" which was never spoken. Ira Sel or whatever the name was, wouldn't have made any sense to me. But I could SEE the name was made from the letters that spelled "Israel".

It was funny at the time. I only know one family who's Jewish, I don't know why it was in the dream. When I woke, I immediately wondered how my brain came up with that, and yet I still had to explain it to myself within the dream. When everyone laughed the first time, I really didn't get it.

Sorry for this off topic post, in an otherwise very good thread. Telos asked  :wink:

Potatis

Gandalf

Potatis.. lol I know the feeling, i sometimes wake up laughing my head off about something, but usually i cant remember what.. other times, i can remember but i think... 'you know, it wasnt really THAT funny!' in fact i dont see what was funny about it at all!

I guess you have to be there!

Doug

PS Telos_ glad to hear that you plan to continue with the wake-induced.. it can be a long slog before you get any results but keep at it... I feel I am *almost* at the f12 3d blackness stage.... if i can get to this then that would be a massive achievement... its odd as  i get to this stage and beyond quite often from a lucid state, but i REALLY want to get there from 100% awake.. F12 is like the gateway and I want to be 100% aware to take full advantage of it!
"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.