Arg! Lucid or OBE, not sure

[js]

Doesn't R. Bruce talk about the "Alice in Wonderland" effect, or whatever it is called? Anyway, I think what you had was an OBE at first, but it quickly became a LD. It has happened to me on many occasions, in fact most of my OBEs have turned into LDs, more or less anyway. Come to think of it, the most common 'termination' of my OBEs is that I start having experiences and images and feelings that I've clearly made up and are like what you have in a LD.

[TheSeeker]

Hmm... its' been over a year, I think I need to re-read Astral Dynamics [].  Thanks for the input though.

[kozzi]

I know people are going to argue with me on this point, but I'm going to say it anyway:  I don't believe there is a difference between OBEs and Lucid dreams.  I think a lot of people might want for there to be a difference, but I just believe it's a matter of subject matter and focus.  So, you definately had an OBE.

Kozzi

[Nay]

I agree with you Kozzi!  

I have felt for awhile now, that dreams are much, much more than we are thinking.  I am even talking about the "non-lucid" dreams.  Oh, guess I better say, that this is all my opinion..[]

I have noticed that when people, me included, recall some lucid dreams, they start out by saying "I was trying to have a OOBE, then slipped into a lucid dream"  And the reason we say "dream", is it just because we were not aware of the separation?

Now with the not so lucid dreams, I think it is just a matter of the amount of energy and focus.  I am not saying every dream we have is us in the astral but some of my dreams where I really wasn't "lucid", I was definitly in the astral.  Just because I didn't say while in the dream, "oh, am I dreaming?" makes it any less of a experience or a non-astal trip.  

When I dream..and I have ATLEAST 3 dreams a day, that I can fully recall, I just go with the dream and not question if I am dreaming..does that make sense?.. but I make conscious decisions while there. So, my brain is working in that aspect.

I could go on and on about this..[^] but I will save some for another day! Plus the little one is bugging me to death and I can't keep focused on this post! []

P.S. TheSeeker, I think you had a OBE..but seems the energy was low..lol  Keep it up! []

Nay []

[holy reality]

personally right now I think there is a certain area... let me try and draw a diagram

insane............................................vivid
-----------------------|--------------------------
1..............................2...........3.....4

1. Wonderland.
2. pretty realistic
1-2 = normal non lucid dreaming.
when you cross the midpoint, which is that little | in the middle, you kind of cross the border between random crazy fabrications of your mind, into the... well... "mystic" or "astral" ... more of a collective unconscious type thing..... now the midpoint is still insanely weird in terms of "reality" and the "physical plane" but it's kind of borderline psychic and can be more or less very vivid...

but I think 1-2 = where most dreams fall, most of them being mainly creations of your own crazy mind, some being mixed signals from elsewhere.

2-3 is kind of where the "vivid" lucid dreams take place... in that they can still be really bizarre and nonsensical but they feel ultimately very real and clear and such.... 3-4 is where I think perhaps the so called "real time" projections take place.

and 1-2 and a half is where a majority of normal lucid dreams tend to take place.

I think that the ultimate factor here is just how active your mind is...dreaming suppresses common sense, reasoning, the ability to read, etc.....

Lucid dreaming enhances your consciousness to sometimes completely normal levels.

Projecting, if done from the day, I theorize might actually raise your consciousness to higher than normal levels.

So it's basically like all these things are the same, dreams, OBEs, APs, etc... it's just how connected you are to... the collective unconscious, god, the astral, whatever..... versus how much of it is just your mind sorting out memories and dealing with issues and stuff like that.

I guess that kind of makes sense... to me...

Do you all get what I'm trying to say?

[Mrsix]

Kozzi said:
I" know people are going to argue with me on this point, but I'm going to say it anyway: I don't believe there is a difference between OBEs and Lucid dreams. I think a lot of people might want for there to be a difference, but I just believe it's a matter of subject matter and focus. So, you definately had an OBE."

Oh, I 100% Agree with you on that statement.
Two days ago I had an OOB, sadly it only lasted about 2 mins, but after leaving my bedroom window, the OOB instantly turned into a dream. This, as everyone will probably agree on, is completely normal.. however, the dream was then set for the majority around my house.
Dreams, I think, are generally set at locations that are real because you are actually there... in a certain respect.
well, that's my opinion anyway [:I]

[holy reality]

i don't think location has a lot to do with realness...

this one time I was in a hospital of sorts and they drugged me up and such, while i was sleeping i all of a sudden shifted into the hallway from a dream i was in, and i was floating down it beyond my control... I saw the security guards and everything and staff... but .... there was an ELEVATOR in the middle of the room.

There is no elevator in the middle of that room. Other than that it was fairly real though, but .... well.. I think it just has to do with places you are more familiar with looking more real, becuase you go to them so much that your subconscious can recreate them easily.

I mean I can go to Magic Mountain whenver I want while lucid usually, by stepping through the front door with eyes closed thinking about Magic Mountain and saying I'm there.... and it's *fairly* accurate looking.

But it still isn't dead on accurate, and can get quite dream like.

I think it's all based upon your familiarity with places and whether or not you have a photographic memory.

[TheSeeker]

Well, I was trying to remain concious while falling asleep last night.  I began drifting off, starting to dream, then I'd become concious, off and on for awhile.

About 30 minutes after lying down, I was concious of where I was but I felt like I was asleep.  I tried to feel myself rising and instantly I shot up in the air.  I was extremely excited and I saw treetops when I went up, but they were right above my house.

I posted this here instead of OBE because it seemed more like a lucid dream with the trees being directly above my house, because they're not in real life.  At this point I lost sight.  I remembered a post of someone's on this board so I thought 'clarity', but I still could see.  I flew around it seemed with ease.

I suppose I then drifted off to sleep because I awoke 10 minutes later or so upset that I didn't immediately wake up, I had lost most of the details, I remember, that during that time, that I had done something else while lucid, and that I enjoyed them, but I can't remember what it was! Ah!

Well, I feel as though I'm making progress, this is my second time going lucid in a month (atleast I think it was a lucid dream), I just have to stick to it I suppose.