Why astal over lucid dreaming?

[two]

What does an astral experience have over a lucid dream? I wonder why some would want to convert their lucid dream into an astral one. I've had different kinds of I guess lucid dreams. Some where I'm not presently involved but am watching as though through a movie camera. I may see object's or places or people- even myself. I've seen myself a handful of times but with a person I've never met and in a situation unlike my own. I've felt myself being propelled through space and ending up looking at surroundings of what seems to be another world. I've been upstairs and downstairs,down fun slides and have taken some rides on a very unpredictable elevator. For me I think movement is the prelude to the stillness of a lucid dream in which I am completely present. I've never felt the need to control my dreams. I just sort of let them show me whatever and take me wherever. Is control the issue?

[Tom]

Have you ever tried doing your favorite meditation techniques in a lucid dream? I've heard that it works better than normal, but by the time I have a lucid dream, find a place to meditate, sit down, get into the lotus posture, and finally am ready to try it I wake up.

[MisterJingo]

I usually see a lucid dream as a self generated inner experience. Personally owned by you.
Astral projection is usually a experience in an 'outer' environment. Where people you meet and places you go are not sole constructs of your mind (they might be construed in a certain way based on your belief and knowledge, but they are not generated 'internally' like a LD is).
There is overlap between the two experiences though.
Also talking about things being internal and extrenal is not quite correct, but it's easier to explain that way.

[two]

I always figured meditation was what you did to get you into a lucid dream. I never thought to try it when I found it. I would like to learn how to maintain lucidity for longer. When I've found that I'm present, in what I think is my most lucid state, I find that people around me either know me or understand a need to communicate with me. In this lucid state I am so aware of my senses and I always feel pretty happy.

[two]

Mr.J
Are you saying that a lucid dream is a closed experience without a connection to universal wisdom?

[MisterJingo]

Its not that easy Universal wisdom can come from within. But Most people/constructs seen in a LD are self generated. Wheras in AP other 'intelligences' could have created the places you visit.

[two]

Mr.J
Do you think that a lucid experience be it astral or within the constructs of ones mind is random? Does a trip to another world give me more insight than a trip to my own back yard? Or should I look for a common tool that I might measure both?

[MisterJingo]

In regards to your first point. I'm not sure if it is random or not. My experience to date has not made me believe either way. I like to think we are not bound by destiny (deterministic/non-random) but I really don't know. Its perhaps possible that the experience is not random, but the intent of the projector (even if a subconscious intent) could direct to a certain experience. So it would appear to be a random experience, when in fact it is not.
In regards to your second question, I guess it depends on the reason for your projection. If you wish to learn about yourself, and your consciousness then a LD (your own back yard) could prove useful. But, I believe we can only know ourselves when we gain new material (knowledge) to process ourselves by. If we stopped right now. Never experiencing anything new, reading, seeing, touching, tasting, a new piece of knowledge/experience we would eventually come to a stop. To truly know oneself, I think we have to pull apart every belief, like, prejudice, emotion, to see what is at the core. But, to do such a thing would be to study the sum of our current experience, with the sum of our current experience. So new knowledge (visiting other worlds) gives us scope to grow/feeds us new knowledge so that we might learn more about ourselves. I hope that makes sense.

[MisterJingo]

Just to add something: I use words like subconscious. But ask yourself what the subconscioius truely is. I could quote a books definition of the subconscious, but I have no idea what it is on a personal direct experience level. So it could be said that any assumption I base on there being a subconscious is flawed. I'm basing assumptions on an unknown/assumed foundation. When you look at everything about oneself which is taken for granted, school taught concepts we believe without looking within ourselves, it's shocking how little we truely 'know'.
This is what I mean about knowing oneself. Really getting to the bottom of things - and new knowledge (experiences outside the bounds of ones stored information) gives tools to study further.

[Tombo]

What does an astral experience have over a lucid dream? I wonder why some would want to convert their lucid dream into an astral one.

Since I started the topic you might be referring to, I'll answer,Well, there are a couple of answers.........

First of all, looking for ways to convert a LD into a OBE doesn't mean, one favors the later. It doesn't mean one converts all LD one has into OBE. I, at least won't do that. I want to have both.
I'll give some reasons why I'm interested in the conversion process:
-I want to explore OBE's and I believe that the conversion is a more easy approach to have a OBE, then inducing it from the waking state (at least for me it is) so I'll try to get some OBE by LD->OBE conversion.
-I want to compare LD with OBE, therefore I want to experience both and convert them into each other, see if I should favor one.........basically I want to convert to answer the question you asked to myself!
-I'm interested in the phenomenon of consciousness itself, to understand it, I want to master  LD as well as OBE. Conversion might yield some light on their connection and on the nature of both phenomenon as well as consciousness
-I don't think conversion should mess up things to much since both phenomenon seem close related, why not try it?
-OBE's might be a less subjective experience then a LD which might offer more options. At least some say it does, wanna see if it's true.
-Curiosity

[two]

Mr.J
I agree that exploring the unknown can only help us grow but I can't help but feel that I need a way. I studied a bit of Plato when my lucid dreams began and it taught me how one core understanding could hold together and facilitate a minds venture into the unknown. The practice of exploring and finding answers I found needs to be consistent with some truth one can always reason back to. To what end do we reason? I guess my issue is that I need for things to be defined and consistent with a core understanding. I'd like to understand how one comes to define an astral experience or even a lucid dream. I've been thinking I need to go back to the Socratic teachings to help me out. Do you recommend any?

[Tyciol]

I have a theory based on little but conjecture about astral projection and lucid dreaming.

Dreaming is dreaming in your own head, things can flow in to influence them, but overall what happens doesn't do much to the astral realm, but in the astral realm you're all REALLY communicating with each other in a public forum, as opposed to a private messageboard.

OBE is when you're observing the real world and not some fantasy worlds you make up in your head or astral space, whatever the heck astral space is (explain that to me sometime).