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Author Topic: what do you eat?  (Read 22676 times)
mon9999
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« on: May 04, 2011, 10:39:31 »

why is it that most spiritual and metaphysical people always advice to be a vegetarian and avoid meat. do we really have to be a vegetarian in order to achieve spiritual well being? what's wrong with meat?
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NoY
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 14:49:30 »

maybe they are just trying to avoid the blood debt  wink


:NoY:
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 14:49:30 »

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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 15:02:53 »

There's nothing wrong with it.
It's, yet another, personal choice one can make and it's no more or less spiritual than anything else.
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personalreality
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 15:29:21 »

I work with a bunch of new age hippies (who drive me crazy).  Most of them are vegetarians.

The other day I told the astrologer I work with (the most militant vegetarian of all of them) that I like the hot bar at Whole Foods better than the hot bar at the local market up the street (basically just a smaller version of Whole Foods).  She glared at me and said, "carnivore".  I said "excuse me?" to which she replied, "you like whole foods better because you're a carnivore and they support meat eaters, [other store] doesn't".  That kind of ticked me off because first of all it's not true.  The local market serves meat and whole foods serves much more in vegetarian fare than meat.  But how dare she condescend me for eating meat.  So I went on to explain to her why she is still murdering life to feed herself and I was better than her for it because I'm not in denial about it.  Animals and plants are both living creatures.  You kill both of them to eat them.  For someone who constantly complains about why we keep pets but eat other animals (like pigs, because she has a pet pig) and preaches the equality of all animals, she certainly carries a double standard for plants.  Apparently their form of life isn't as good as that of animals.  Bull$hit. 

I have no problem with vegetarians.  In fact, I am in the process of switching to a vegetarian diet because my body wants balance (i eat too much meat, which i'll still eat sparingly).  But if you are a vegetarian, don't think you're better than a carnivore because you don't kill animals.  You kill plants and don't even thank them for it.  You don't even think they need to be thanked.

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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 16:44:07 »

Frank was a vegetarian & so am I.  tongue  Not that that matters. I think it being considered more spiritual is because some religions suggest it for peace.

   
    * Buddhism
    * Hinduism
    * ISKCON (the Hare Krishnas)
    * Jainism
    * Sikhism
    * Seventh Day Adventists
    * The Society of Friends (Quakers)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_and_religion

 

 


 
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 16:44:07 »



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cyborg
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 17:02:34 »

what's wrong with meat?

Maybe it is like a more powerful alien saying "what wrong with eating humans?".
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kurtykurt42
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 17:03:20 »

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Lexy
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 17:40:00 »

I don't see why someones diet is such a big deal to other people. What someone chooses to eat should make no difference to anyone unless they are cannibals.
Its funny that people have often confessed to me that they wish they could give
up meat but at the same time they feel the need to put down vegetarians.  rolleyes
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personalreality
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2011, 18:55:53 »

\o/ Kurt!

I really couldn't care less how people choose to eat.  I think it's ridiculous to claim that vegetarianism is more peaceful (less violent) than eating meat.  Just because an animal bleeds like a human doesn't mean that plants are of less value.  They bleed their own blood just like everyone and everything else.  Another example of someone's dogma run away like a freight train.  Most vegetarian religions come from the east, which to me shows more of a cultural concern than a religious one.  It probably just got somehow tacked on to the religion at some point.  Nevertheless, it's just plain dumb to criticize anyone for their dietary choices.  Maybe it's the people I hang out with, but I find that vegetarians are a lot more conceited about their diets than meat eaters.  Who really cares?  If you have a spiritual urge to eat a particular diet (which i fully understand), that's great, but it doesn't mean my diet makes me unclean.  Same old story.
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 19:47:00 »

Its a lot more about how animals are being treated than the death of them. If you did research on the terrible conditions and tortue animals go through for mass production, then you would understand the peace aspect of it. I admire how native tribes hunt & respect their food. I cant say I admire what goes on in slaughter houses. There is a belief that when you consume flesh, you also consume the energy of what it experienced.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 19:51:08 by Lexy » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 20:26:40 »

I think it is necessary to twist a lot of the facts in a grievously biased way, however, to say that it is the same to eat plants and animals, and that the treatment each receive are equivalent. As has been mentioned, animals kept on most farms are more or less in constant torture. And people do differentiate between how they treat lifeforms of different kinds of development, based on their perceived mental experiences; case in point- most people don't feel bad about stepping on an ant, but would think twice about crushing a dog under a giant dumpster.

There are economic arguments to make as well. Consider all the bio-matter that must be cultivated, transported, and distributed in order to feed and raise an animal to kill. The cost of all the produce it eats is hundreds of times the nutritional value of its meat. If we put the same resources we put toward raising livestock into producing vegetables and grain, we could feed the entire world many times over, rather than just barely, and having many in constant starvation. There are also massive quantities of energy consumed and pollution resulting from keeping the volume of livestock we do. It has been said that given a choice between getting rid of every motor vehicle in the country, and getting rid of the livestock industry, the latter choice would be vastly more beneficial in terms of energy and pollution.

It is indeed a lifestyle choice, but I think it is a vast misrepresenttion of reality to say it does not matter which you choose, and that there are no other consequences for the world.
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2011, 21:25:22 »

Its a lot more about how animals are being treated than the death of them. If you did research on the terrible conditions and tortue animals go through for mass production, then you would understand the peace aspect of it. I admire how native tribes hunt & respect their food. I cant say I admire what goes on in slaughter houses. There is a belief that when you consume flesh, you also consume the energy of what it experienced.

I agree 100%, especially about the emotion you absorb when you eat that flesh.  I just assumed we were all aware of that aspect of the argument.  The treatment of animals in mass slaughter is horrendous.
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2011, 22:50:44 »

I switch between vegetarianism and omnivorous.  I love meat but don't like how the industry treat animals for slaughter.  So I do veg. for some time, until I can't help myself, and go back and forth.
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kurtykurt42
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2011, 03:14:23 »

\o/ Kurt!

I really couldn't care less how people choose to eat.  I think it's ridiculous to claim that vegetarianism is more peaceful (less violent) than eating meat.  Just because an animal bleeds like a human doesn't mean that plants are of less value.  They bleed their own blood just like everyone and everything else.  Another example of someone's dogma run away like a freight train.  Most vegetarian religions come from the east, which to me shows more of a cultural concern than a religious one.  It probably just got somehow tacked on to the religion at some point.  Nevertheless, it's just plain dumb to criticize anyone for their dietary choices.  Maybe it's the people I hang out with, but I find that vegetarians are a lot more conceited about their diets than meat eaters.  Who really cares?  If you have a spiritual urge to eat a particular diet (which i fully understand), that's great, but it doesn't mean my diet makes me unclean.  Same old story.

The only good reason to not eat meat is if you didn't like the taste of it. Fortunately, I love meat, especially with plenty of spices and hot sauces and I could care less what they do to fish, chickens, cows, pigs, and turkeys.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 03:16:10 by kurtykurt42 » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2011, 03:36:08 »

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The only good reason to not eat meat is if you didn't like the taste of it

Again, a significantly biased claim. It is okay to say it is a manner of opinion and choice, and that there is debate involved, since it is not a black and white issue; but to flat out say that there are no reasons of any kind to support a decision otherwise, and to say that the other side of the discussion has made no counterpoints is not only willful ignorance of rational arguments, it is also lying to yourself and lying to others.
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2011, 05:59:54 »

Again, a significantly biased claim. It is okay to say it is a manner of opinion and choice, and that there is debate involved, since it is not a black and white issue; but to flat out say that there are no reasons of any kind to support a decision otherwise, and to say that the other side of the discussion has made no counterpoints is not only willful ignorance of rational arguments, it is also lying to yourself and lying to others.

It's black and white to me... Eat whatever you want. I don't see the point of depriving yourself the pleasure of eating the greatest foods on the planet because of some silly religious or cultural belief.
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Mattoid
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2011, 06:08:19 »

I haven't eaten meat since i was 10 years old because of how ridiculously squeamish i am, I used to imagine the pain of someone biting a chunk of flesh out of my arm, It got the point where i couldn't even chew it, I'd just swallow it.. and then as soon as my mum gave me a choice, i just opted out of it. I have nothing against people who eat meat though, not at all.
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Stillwater
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2011, 08:27:27 »

Quote
because of some silly religious or cultural belief.


I will quote... myself... of 5 posts back  grin Religion is not even a part of where I coming from. It has been irrefutably established that the livestock industry is one of the absolute top causes of world hunger, and a principle source of world pollution and energy consumption. Merely for the unarguable good of other people on earth, and of future generations, it is a responsible choice to give up eating meat, or to even eat less. If with this understanding, you choose to eat meat, that is a personal choice, like driving an SUV to work, but don't dismiss reasonable, scientific facts by calling them religious mumbo-jumbo not worthy of your time. You can say that other people's wellfare is not a top priority to you, and it would be an understandable position in some ways, as you can either choose to spend your time caring about others, or do your own thing, but don't paint blatant facts to be "religious people stuff". It makes sense to me that one could say it was not a compelling argument to them, since they are focuesed on their own personal exerperiences, but to say it was not a rationalistic, factual-based argument can only be ignorant.

Quote
There are economic arguments to make as well. Consider all the bio-matter that must be cultivated, transported, and distributed in order to feed and raise an animal to kill. The cost of all the produce it eats is hundreds of times the nutritional value of its meat. If we put the same resources we put toward raising livestock into producing vegetables and grain, we could feed the entire world many times over, rather than just barely, and having many in constant starvation. There are also massive quantities of energy consumed and pollution resulting from keeping the volume of livestock we do. It has been said that given a choice between getting rid of every motor vehicle in the country, and getting rid of the livestock industry, the latter choice would be vastly more beneficial in terms of energy and pollution.


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kurtykurt42
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2011, 10:19:53 »



I will quote... myself... of 5 posts back  grin Religion is not even a part of where I coming from. It has been irrefutably established that the livestock industry is one of the absolute top causes of world hunger, and a principle source of world pollution and energy consumption. Merely for the unarguable good of other people on earth, and of future generations, it is a responsible choice to give up eating meat, or to even eat less. If with this understanding, you choose to eat meat, that is a personal choice, like driving an SUV to work, but don't dismiss reasonable, scientific facts by calling them religious mumbo-jumbo not worthy of your time. You can say that other people's wellfare is not a top priority to you, and it would be an understandable position in some ways, as you can either choose to spend your time caring about others, or do your own thing, but don't paint blatant facts to be "religious people stuff". It makes sense to me that one could say it was not a compelling argument to them, since they are focuesed on their own personal exerperiences, but to say it was not a rationalistic, factual-based argument can only be ignorant.


So, your point is that the global economy is suffering because people eat meat?
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2011, 13:37:50 »

Perhaps it is a matter of matching each persons needs for being healthy rather than strict rules or moral purposes.

We know that eating too much salt or sugar is not good for a human body, and there are general guidlelines for what a human body needs to stay healthy. 
Eat enough but not  too much.  Maybe look for foods that are the closest to their natural state, and eat less of processed foods. 

But foods are not the whole story.  A strict vegan with a bad attitude or an ego problem is not better than a meat eater who has overcome bad attitudes or ego problems. 
A diet for one person is not,perforce good for another.  Pay attention to your cravings but not your addictions.  Ask yourself questions about why you make the food choices you do
and why you like those choices and then be honest with yourself. 

Your body is a pretty complex organism and it needs different nutrients at different times in your life. 

What about the mental and emotional diets?  Should we be more concerned with what we feed our selves mentally and emotionally? 
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kurtykurt42
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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2011, 23:11:09 »

We know that eating too much salt or sugar is not good for a human body, and there are general guidlelines for what a human body needs to stay healthy. 
Eat enough but not  too much.  Maybe look for foods that are the closest to their natural state, and eat less of processed foods. 

I know people that eat McDolnalds and KFC every day and live until there 90s. And I've known people that eat vegetables and fruit every day and have gotten lung cancer and died at 65. You could get hit by a car and die tomorrow, so eat whatever you want and be happy.
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personalreality
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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2011, 23:24:24 »

i agree kurt, but i can say that when i eat raw foods, especially fruits, i feel more energetic than when i eat meat.  not in some metaphysical sense, i just have more energy, i'm more alert and ready to go.

but then again, i really like meat.
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2011, 03:02:31 »

Quote
So, your point is that the global economy is suffering because people eat meat?


Yes, actually, in the sense that there is less engergy and signifcantly less food to go around while supporting a livestock system, by the nature of engery passed on at each level of the tropic food-chain. For every person you can feed with the engery and labor needed to raise enough animal weight to feed them, you can literally feed dozens upon dozens, and potentially even hundreds of people, based upon what crops are grown with those same resources.
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2011, 04:11:44 »

I know people that eat McDolnalds and KFC every day and live until there 90s.
Occasionally eating McDonald's and KFC... probably.
But more than that, it would take a very special individual to stomach that crap and live to 90.

Anyway, that's not even real meat!  LOL
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2011, 19:56:17 »

My opinion.

If you think there's nothing wrong with eating meat then you are just living acording to your nature and are doing nothing wrong. If you feel guilty about it but eat the stuff anyway then you will be acruing a certain amount of karmic debt and creating subconscious problems. To put it in christian terms you would be committing willful sin.

I believe when you eat something you take into your being. When you eat meat you are taking fear and slaughter into yourself. A book I've just read said plants grow from light so when you eat plants you are taking more light into yourself - it's a nice thought.

Another book I read(on hermetic magic) said you can imbue your food with any quality you like before eating it and over time you will take it on. I'm inclined to believe it as other things in the book proved to work.

I've found that the longer I stay away from meat the more repellant it becomes to me. I cant even eat quorn because it's too meat-like. The smell of pork cooking makes me gag nowadays. It really does smell god awful when your mind stops associating it with food.

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